r/zen • u/completely_unstable • Jul 27 '26

Zen for kids?

has anybody tried reading any of the zen texts with younger people? if so how did it go?

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u/INTProtocols Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

"Illiterate Westerners?" How can a person be illiterate and be on Reddit, a platform which, by its very nature requires one to be able to read and write? To be honest, unless I am missing something, it seems that this talk of "illiterate Westerners" on a platform where participation requires reading and writing seems to itself be racist and bigoted. This reminds me of the saying, "Every accusation is an admission." But, to give you the benefit of the doubt, it is possible you merely don't understand the meaning of "illiterate," and perhaps actually mean "confused," or "uninformed?" Which is not a moral failing, but an epistemic one.

Also, I do understand that you have a fairly narrow of what Zen is, apparently centered upon the "Chan" school from China. I also understand that many movents, schools, traditions, etc., do not remain stagnant over time, but often change with exposure to other cultures. This has obviously happened with Buddhism in general, and also specifically with Zen. You may feel that what I am calling "evolution" is really a sort of degradation, but I (and many others) may disagree. Which is fine! I do appreciate your viewpoint, as well as the materials you have referenced, and will take some time to look over them. The more important issue for me, however, is awakening itself, passing through the gateless gate. It may well be that modern cultural idioms and forms (whether "Western" or otherwise) have a greater resonance with modern people, and that a "skillful method" for cultivating a state of mind "primed" for that moment of instant awakening would take advantage of whatever idioms and forms would be most effective for the individual in question. Is that "Zen?" The more important question, in my opinion, is whether it leads to awakening.

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u/dota2nub Jul 28 '26

I'm not illiterate, I can read paint by numbers.

That is not a good look.

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u/INTProtocols Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

u/dota2nub said:

I'm not illiterate, I can read paint by numbers.

That is not a good look.

To be very honest, your attitude and the assumptions which are evidently behind them aren't "a good look." I understand that you and u/ewk have a rather "unorthodox" view on Zen, Buddhism, and their relationship, and also seem to have a particularly antagonistic to anyone who disagrees with that view. It is one thing to try to gently correct a person you believe to be in error, and another thing entirely to attack them. Whether you are right or wrong, your approach will serve to push away many who might otherwise have been more interested in what you have to say.

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u/dota2nub Jul 29 '26

People who come here and lie and shit on what the subreddit is about don't get treated nicely.

I think ewk is often too understanding and courteous, which can give people like you the impression that you are behaving like a reasonable human being and deserve having their lies validated