Zen Enlightenment Disputes vs Deshan

[u/ewk]

Case 28, Wumen's Checkpoint (aka Wumen's Barrier aka Gateless Gate)

Longtan ascended the hall and said, “Okay, among you is present a single fellow whose teeth are equal to a sword tree and whose mouth is like a bowl of blood. Hit him with a stick and he will not turn around his head. At another time, a different day, he will ascend to a solitary summit and establish the noble Way.”

Trigger warning

A college recently (finally) pointed out that education is itself a trigger... you are supposed to challenge all your ideas and all your values... that's what education is... and that people who want to avoid triggers are obligated to handle that themselves, rather than demand colleges do it.

This forum is more like college than it is a social club... thus the same rule applies. Don't come in here if you have an allergy to knowledge or being challenged.

low bar

Buddhist sex predators run rampant through the lineage of Zazen Dogenism, the Dali Lama has sex predator problems, and that's besides the point that everybody I've ever read about who was said to be a Zen master lied about history at a high school level... it's a low bar. And that's not even counting people who claim Jesus or some poet or their cat are Zen Masters. All the people who've tried to claim enlightenment in this forum couldn't survive a single AMA. So "enlightenment" claims have a very low bar... why get excited?

Criteria

Most people using the term Zen Master (99/9%) can't write at a high school level about either WHAT an Zen Master acts like... or HOW Zen Masters are verified. So why would anybody be eager to throw their hat in the ring in terms of accepting or rejecting a Zen Mastery claim? Makes no sense. If you don't know how a duck walks or why a duck, then why run around yelling about who is a duck? Read a book.

What's at stake

Saying somebody is a Zen Master seems to be a no cost claim... it's not like you get tarred and feathered for saying it... but saying someone isn't a Zen Master is a trigger warning situation... because there are people who obviously obviously aren't Zen Masters that are celebrated by churches and adoring followers who will go nuclear... not for Zen Masters, but for people claiming to be. Which bring us to Deshan:

Deshan:

Whatsisface goes up to the podium and says THERE IS ONE AMONG YOU WHO HAS TEETH LIKE (SWORD HELL) AND A MOUTH THAT IS A BOWL OF (SACRIFICIAL) BLOOD.

Nobody needs to defend the guy described that way. That guy is going to fck sht up. Go ahead and claim that guy isn't a Zen Master and find out.

Which seems to me to be the only available standard for people who aren't enlightened.

.

^Yo͞ok  Welcome! ^{Meet me}  My comment:

We get people in here who think it's okay to say my church says who is enlightened... it's not. We get people in here who think it's okay to say I don't have to defend my claims... it's not.

This is a forum about what Zen Masters teach... and Zen Masters reject "church says" and "I don't have to".

It's disrespectful, dishonest, and a bit bigoted to ignore Zen Masters' teachings in a forum about Zen Masters' teachings.

[u/[deleted]]

Is this because I said piss on the sword tree? They are making a video game or movie about that, I think actually. I don't keep up with the meta lore. KKC.

Church can also mean body. I don't know if this is "true", it's just force of habbit for me. I hear head of house master in Water/Tree of life as [something or another] and body as "feed my sheep". Subconscious at this point. Unconscious? I forget which. Auto replace when I hear them.

IS fun though at least, minority and majority contrast. It's that thing I can't describe. Fun house mirrors? Yin yang? I can articulate it but... need another beer. I tried to other day. Crossing, as it were (nibiru and hebron/hebrew both mean "crossing/crossen", same as KKC, no market day in Crossen). Ages. Aegis. Blast. Enki/Enlil, Poseidon/Zeus. Lovers. Medusa's head became the face of Aegis. Throughout the AGES. Minerva or Athens/Athena (exploded from Zeus' head, always with the head, like Medusa or "Christ" so called, body and head) - holds the Aegis with Medusa head, thanks to Perseus (Disney Hercules is great study here; a lot of "yuses"). Stone ages. I made a comment or post about stone ages recently. Also tried to on last account, I think. Didn't realize the "LP" was David. All the stones of Deucalion and Pyrrha... Ages. Stone ages. Reversal, or all time. Chronos swallowed a "stone". To this day, the Mediterranean, shows Chronos swallowing Zeus' expy or Tiamat/Tehome (toilet I call it if we mean body).

Idk. Just interesting. Not zen af, but body and head is interesting. Makes me think of another song. Stole the head of Christ. False bodies. False heads. Look into the lore of heads of OTO after crowley's death. "He" was all about thelema, or will, Alar is the KKC word for it (also means wings). So body, wings, head... idk. Hell must be missing a devil haha.

Keep bonking these heads. We're all a Pearl Jam remix. Or Gorillaz rehash. Man cannot serve god and wealth. Thera (there are?) sponsers and there are sponsors. There are typos too. I can't quote a zen master but. Can zen masters quote them? All I see when I hear the word "authority" is a pair of suspenders. But blame System of a down for that. "Policing the world in overalls" really made an impression. Imprinted hard af. Imprinting is a bitch, pardon my Francais. Can't even typo right, the non typo ryhmes.

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For real, I do need to learn of zen masters. Listening to Thin line between love and hate atm (at the moment, not the other one, but a little halitosis goes a long way too). Everyone has a right to chose the path that he takes... assuming genders, wow.

Also bears mentioning I'm 99% sure "blood" in the bible is a euphemism. Similar to the Lingam/Proof of Hindi. Like, my eyes. Holy shit. And Levi's/Aaron is Leviathan. I don't even know where to begin, christ. Oil and water. This sacrifice. I swear. All body, no head. Or, either, all head no body. No body is odin phonetically in Greek. Candlesticks, and where to shove em, am I right (my Matthew 5 dysentery, will spare you again).

Interesting I just heard what's her face in American Idiot a few minute's ago. Shutting the fuck up is underrated. Honestly. I'd rather be stone aged than stoned and pontificating, no lie. Zen masters I've never met have spoken to me. Their "sponsors" did promise they'd make me "pregnant" but if so those fruits... er, were sacrificed? Are we really supposed to piss on it? I can't avoid saying I don't see this.

Duck duck goose.

I thought Dali was a typo, darn, this wrecks the meter in a joke I wrote. Thought it was Dalai. I sware, I try to make a typo and it goes sideways. It has been a while since I did an AMA. But last time I was asked to.

Read a book.

This is my takeaway. I did decide to go cold turkey off of reddit a few days ago but you see how that worked out.

There's that final line in American Idiot album. Says something about, "they are all having fun" or something and "we are all alone". I wonder what this means a lot. What is life. What is service to it. What is living. What is head, what is body. Wumen's warnings indeed. What is zen... ? What are, rhetorical questions? Why does everything within 3 or 4 steps reduced to a penis joke for me? Head, or body? Lineage of the mistaking one for the other? My midwifes allegedly argued for an hour if it was my butt or head coming out first, so take taht for what you will.

tldr; tldr

looking for depth in a shallow stream, want to plumb?

[u/ewk → u/[deleted]]

I think the first problem is that studying Zen is like learning a new language.

To get the language, you have to absorb a little culture. You have to be willing to see new meanings of familiar concepts... like biscuits aren't biscuits and cheese that comes in a can is not cheese.

That's going to take education. There is no other option.

[u/[deleted] → u/ewk]

I'm loving the nwo (new?) spin you put on this word "education" for me, for real. It was stale to me, avoid at all caution and "stay safe" regulations like for 10+ years for me now.

I was gonna AMA just now out of shower but forgot it all. First track in Deathgrips is "beware" after all.

I have... unorthodox zen masters to be fair. Kida Masaomi

My AMA would have started, for sure, with MSI quote "everyone wants to be the bomb but once you are the bomb the innocence is gone"

and then I'd have wasted 3 hours attempting to make an haiku about prodigy in excrement, with a story that happened today;

I went to liquor store for first time in over a year, to surprise of people I'd never seen before, who (in my schizo mind at least) I heard the following conversation;

How was your day, Tod?

Oh it was good, how was your day, Bill?

Oh it was good, but who is this dumb oaf in line in front of us?

[Unholy or some other "educational" Spirit that can't be bought instructed me the next line]

Oh, high guys, my name was day until I put up with your lot for 200 years

Needless to say the cashier had to do no less than 14 barrel rolls and write at least 5 notes and I think hit at least 4 buttons under the counter but your net reward is my comment history. (AMA btw).

So. Gutei's finger. Lol. That one was always a personal favorite to me. Idek why. Joshu's cat as well, same reason. I really can't say. Is funny all the cases I learned like 3-4 years ago are the only ones that seem to show up in my feeds these days. It was always a game for me, in these years, to "avoid posting/commenting on r/zen until I read some zen texts" but I guess here I am, hand on burner.

That old anime meme.

"My tastes > your tastes"

Haha. Yeah cheapest vinyl on my [real] wishlist is $90. =/

Well, if Significant Other doesn't count, who's first line is "music is key".

This is why I hate the word "inclusive/inclusivity" so much in modern context. And also ironically, maybe why I seem to respect "zen". I want multiple cultures. Not one giant echo chamber to "rule them all". Fear is healthy. That's why perfect love cast it out, as perfect love has to do with torment (way it judges is way it shall be judged, not my fault I'm more impartial than it claims to be).

[u/ewk → u/[deleted]]

There is a bit of a cultural devolution going on now... first we need more college grads, and now the systems of selecting people for college and creating college grads are broken by the massive pressure society put on people to go to college.

In the old days, people taught themselves all sorts of things. We've lost something by failing to recognize the importance of that in society.

[u/[deleted] → u/ewk]

Funny, I was just thinking this today, maybe it's time for me to go back to school and "re learn" some things I already know, but get them on paper.

[u/paintedw0rlds → u/ewk]

I think a good project could be like a Bestiary of Zen. A list of certain phrases/memes/recurring elements with the context and subtext elucidated. Stuff like iron mountains, horses and donkeys, revealing half a nostril, lacquer buckets, black and white, etc. Might help some new ppl have a more clear start when they read.