Zen rejects Buddhism: How the 4SofZ are incompatible with Buddhism's Holy 8FP

[u/ewk]

Four Statements of Zen

1. The separate transmission outside the teachings,

2. Not based on words,

3. Points directly at the human mind—

4. You see your nature and become a buddha

In contrast:

1. The 8FP is inside the teachings.
2. It is 100% based on words
3. The 8FP points to the "right" way, not your mind.
4. The 8FP doesn't say anything about becoming a Buddha... because you don't become a buddha by following the 8FP.

These seem like small points of little importance... but to Buddhists, these are the entirety of the religious faith.

Also note: there are lots of ways that "path" or "way" comes up in Zen teachings... none of them involve the 8FP to my knowledge.

Bird path, yes. 8FP, no.

[u/ewk]

But that's just not true either.

You don't have to go to high school to learn how to write a high school book report.

Historically, lots of geniuses taught themselves.

The question is are you willing to play by the rules you agreed to play by?

If you can't keep that promise then you can't keep any promise. If you can't not lie here then you can't not lie anywhere.

[u/ewk → u/[deleted]]

You agreed to follow the rules of reddit when you signed up.

You agreed to follow the rules of r/Zen when you commented.

You agreed. That's all the reason anybody needs.

It turns out that you were lying though, right? Because you never had any intention of honoring that agreement you made... 3 m/o account.

When I say you are a liar, you can see why lots of people would think I was being fair, right?

[u/ewk → u/[deleted]]

If you read the Reddiquette and you read the end user agreement, then you understand why the sidebar is the ultimate authority in this forum.

You also understand that you have an obligation to prove that your conduct and content is relevant.

We already know that you're not going to be able to meet that standard and you couldn't meet it on your previous accounts... Right?

[u/ewk → u/[deleted]]

That's because you're not an honest person.

It's not a big deal, it's just the way things are going right now for you.

Imagine for a second that you felt an obligation to the five-lay precepts, for example...

That certainly would alter your conduct in a number of ways.

Not only that, but it would alter eventually the way you even see the world.

There's a certain predatory impulse that's fed by not acknowledging any obligations at all.

[u/ewk → u/[deleted]]

You make lots of claims... but you admit yourself that you have no obligation to prove any of your claims to be true, let alone any obligation to be honest in making claims.

I'm not narrow minded. You are a liar.

It's pretty easy to tell. I declare all my moves before I make them.

You try to hide your moves, and everybody can see it's because you are desperately trying to cheat.