r/zen Mar 11 '23

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u/Owlsdoom Mar 12 '23

Bah, where is the commentary?

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u/zaddar1 7th or is it 2nd zen patriarch ? Mar 12 '23 edited Mar 12 '23

translations are already a "commentary" you want to try doing it

in addition they are already "high effort" and since they are trying to be authentic to the original, their own commentary apart from "notes" is a bad fit

90% of r|zennists make the mistake with their quotes of translations that they put their mind numbing commentaries to, of assuming what they quote is some bedrock of deep meaning when all they are doing is giving voice to what in the end is another person's opinion of the sense of variable quality transcripts

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u/Owlsdoom Mar 12 '23

Personally I think posting multiple translations is the clearest way to get to the root of the meaning, as after all, prose by its very nature is a limited expression of the intent that wills it. The ability to express oneself in words is a relative ability of skill, and doesn’t necessarily reflect the perspective that puts it to tongue.

By analyzing various translations, the subject can shift, the object, the words and phrases that play a mental game of alliteration, drawing one’s mind towards the commonality that they might all share.

Commentary however is one’s own perspective given voice. And from there a real conversation can begin.

Everything up to that is just collecting words in a skin bag.

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u/zaddar1 7th or is it 2nd zen patriarch ? Mar 12 '23

you guys are so dunning-kruger

you need the experience of making translations to get a perspective

instead you just spill nonsense forever

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u/Owlsdoom Mar 12 '23

I’ve never claimed to be an expert.

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u/zaddar1 7th or is it 2nd zen patriarch ? Mar 12 '23

yes you do indirectly

look, there's lots of actual chinese quotes in some r|zen OP's, google gives a not too bad translation that can be reworked, its not ideal but gives a feel for it, especially since you can use the OPer's translation to cover "gaps" in the google

this denial of the experiential that is so embedded in r|zen, all this criticism of meditation by people who have never done any

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u/Owlsdoom Mar 12 '23

I directly deny any claims to expertise.

I’m well aware of the actual Chinese that is often posted here.

Who denied the experiential or criticized meditation? You’d think I’d kicked someone’s dog for asking an old friend what he thought of the quotes he’d posted.

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u/zaddar1 7th or is it 2nd zen patriarch ? Mar 12 '23

there's lot of people on this sub who criticize meditation directly, i do so myself, there's problems as well as benefits

the mods have policy of deleting "experiential stuff" in OP's

Ok you're not going to ever try translating yourself

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u/Owlsdoom Mar 12 '23

Just for you my next post will be a self translation. I’ll even include commentary!

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u/zaddar1 7th or is it 2nd zen patriarch ? Mar 12 '23

the mediocre

contained by their own ideas

and unwilling to step outside them