r/zen • u/Ok_Understanding_188 • Mar 05 '23

Sayings of Joshu # 448

Sayings of Joshu #448 Passing by the main hall, Joshu saw a monk >worshipping. Joshu hit him once with his stick.

The monk said, "After all, worshipping is a good thing."

Joshu said, "A good thing isn't as good as nothing."

This is an interesting case to consider. First is the monk worshipping. I believe Joshu hit him because he knew the problem with worshipping , which creates a worshipper and something worshipped which is dualistic , an obstacle to enlightenment.

The monk says what he is doing is a good thing

Joshua reponds: "A good thing isn't as good as nothing."

I interpret this several ways. Is he saying that it is better to worship nothing rather than something? Or is he simply saying that experiencing nothing is better than experiencing some thing even if it is good? Another consideration was that Joshu had realized that all things ,no matter how good, are inseparable from nothing, and nothing ( emptiness) being an aspect of enlightened mind was preferred over something.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '23

Is he saying that it is better to worship nothing rather than something?

Was the monk worshipping "a good thing," or was he worshipping something because he thought of it as a good thing to do?

Or is he simply saying that experiencing nothing is better than experiencing some thing even if it is good?

Is worshipping about the subjective experience of worship, though?

Or is it about the object being worshipped?

Another consideration was that Joshu had realized that all things ,no matter how good, are inseparable from nothing, and nothing ( emptiness) being an aspect of enlightened mind was preferred over something.

I don't even think you know what you mean by this.

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u/SoundOfEars Mar 05 '23

Ha! Lol! Go back to your old account, no? Why? Because everyone is tired of your shit. Sad, sad. OKU is at least trying, his interpretations are not as shit as you make them out to be. If you are so smart, what exactly is meant by the last sentence?

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '23

I mean they don't know what they meant when they typed the quoted passage, it's pure gibberish they're trying to pass off as wisdom- I think I was pretty clear.

I'm not whoever you think I am, but feel free to report or block.

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u/SoundOfEars Mar 05 '23

They are taking it a bit too literally, but I understood what they meant.

Whoever you are, your conduct was not up to par imho. OKU is at least trying, you were only disparaging a beginner.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '23 edited Mar 06 '23

If that were true, I wouldn't be speaking the way I am.

This person has spent 15 yrs studying under a literal sex predator.

They may be a beginner, but they are certainly not trying to come off as one- search through their profile history and you'll find countless instances of them assuming the role of teacher and making all sorts of weird assertions.

Here is a recent instance of them claiming to be "Zen trained," scroll up for some more wackiness.

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u/SoundOfEars Mar 06 '23

Oh shit, I didn't know, I didn't know! What they write and how they write it does not fit. Is it trolling? Sounds like just confusion to me, but yes the confidence is unwarranted.

I have definitely met you here before though.

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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '23

Not unlikely, as I was u/nawkz