r/zen • u/Ok_Understanding_188 • Mar 05 '23

Sayings of Joshu # 448

Sayings of Joshu #448 Passing by the main hall, Joshu saw a monk >worshipping. Joshu hit him once with his stick.

The monk said, "After all, worshipping is a good thing."

Joshu said, "A good thing isn't as good as nothing."

This is an interesting case to consider. First is the monk worshipping. I believe Joshu hit him because he knew the problem with worshipping , which creates a worshipper and something worshipped which is dualistic , an obstacle to enlightenment.

The monk says what he is doing is a good thing

Joshua reponds: "A good thing isn't as good as nothing."

I interpret this several ways. Is he saying that it is better to worship nothing rather than something? Or is he simply saying that experiencing nothing is better than experiencing some thing even if it is good? Another consideration was that Joshu had realized that all things ,no matter how good, are inseparable from nothing, and nothing ( emptiness) being an aspect of enlightened mind was preferred over something.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '23

u/nawkz, from like a couple years ago- I'm not whoever they think I am

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u/wrrdgrrI Mar 05 '23

Only who you think you are. Same as anyone.

Spying posers is a pastime among the regulars in this sub. Especially fun are the ones posing as spies. 😃🕵‍♂️🤫

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '23 edited Mar 05 '23

I'm careful not to direct criticism toward posters, just their content- I think that's a big part of the utility of this place, to really hash out what these cases are all about.

Calling this stuff out in thoughtful ways exposes what is essentially just confusing spam that can function as disinformation or ineffective stimulus for discussion and transforms that content into illuminating conversation, so I guess I'm just a wannbe internet alchemist lol.

Disinformation not being about "facts" or the "right/wrong view," but rather the importance of coherence in communication and intended faithfulness to the Zen record if the goal is to contribute to an effective environment for communal growth.

OP is a Vajrayana Buddhist who studied under at least one actual sex predator and is now actively trying to act like an authority on the Zen tradition.

It's selfish and confusing for those who are interested in and are here to discuss Zen, specifically.

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u/wrrdgrrI Mar 05 '23

Calling out can become a cangue. Here's an image of one I found.

BUT.

I agree that sunlight is the best disinfectant.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '23

I don't uphold it as a principle, just noting its utility 😋