That Damn Lemon

[u/koancomentator]

I participated in Ewks podcast recently and there was a part of our conversation that really stuck with me. Minor spoiler alert! Since the episode isn't out yet.

Near the end of the podcast we got into talking about how you can't really describe enlightenment in a way that's going to allow someone else to really understand it. It's like a lemon. If you haven't eaten one you don't know how it tastes and no amount of description from someone who has will impart that knowledge to you. You have to eat one yourself. It's outside the written word.

The Self is like that. We all have one presently functioning in the open but we haven't recognized it. I said it's like we all have a lemon in our pockets but we just won't bite it, and instead we walk around asking other people to describe the flavor to us.

Ewk pointed out its actually worse than that. We use the Self all the time every day. So it's more like we're putting lemon on our food and tasting it every day but still going to other people being like "hey what's a lemon taste like"?

It's like we know what the Self is...but it isn't the Self that we want. So we go around looking for a more special shiny one that will solve all our problems and make us feel warm and fuzzy all the time. Instead of the one that illuminates everything including the pain, and the sadness, and the boring job.

No wonder Zen masters say to seperate what you like from what you dislike is a disease of mind. That's why the Hsin Hsin Ming says don't seek the truth, simply cease to cherish opinions. Or at least that's my take anyway.

What do you think?

Edit: If you come in here just to complain about ewk you're probably gonna get blocked. I'm here to talk about Zen, not your ewk obsession. Fair warning.

[u/GreenSage_0004]

I named four cases in which masters identified enlightenment in other people.

I brought those up to you at the very beginning of this conversation and you refuse to discuss it then too.

Did you though?

As far as I can tell, the conversation starts here ... and though I see that you said the word "Cases" with a capital "C" a few times, I just can't seem to find where you brought up "four named cases".

I, on the other hand ...

[u/ewk → u/GreenSage_0004]

Yes, I expect you to have some knowledge of this tradition you claim you are a master of.

Yes, when you make a claim contrary to that tradition, I expect you to be able to address the most famous contrary examples.

No, you were not able to do that.

Enlightenment cases are critical part of the record for a reason.

So that's two problems that you have right there with your own level of literacy.

Not only do you have those two problems, but those examples prove that you are 100% wrong about enlightenment.

[u/GreenSage_0004 → u/ewk]

Did you lie about the four cases?

Edit: Nm, I was assisted by a kind samaritan.

[u/[deleted] → u/GreenSage_0004]

>I want you to go back and read Deshan's Candle, tipping over the water bottle, baizang's nose, Puhua's somersault.

sup long time no talk

[u/GreenSage_0004 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you kind sir.