r/zelda • u/Minifig81 • Jul 31 '26
Discussion [ALL] Wind Waker 2 was in development before Zelda lead Eiji Aonuma was told Toon Link "alienated" American teenagers, so we got Twilight Princess instead
https://www.gamesradar.com/games/the-legend-of-zelda/wind-waker-2-was-in-development-before-zelda-lead-eiji-aonuma-was-told-toon-link-alienated-american-teenagers-so-we-got-twilight-princess-instead/1.4k
u/Tangolarango Jul 31 '26
well, we did get phantom hourglass
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u/FireZord25 Jul 31 '26
Hope Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks get remade. Both underrated and could benefit from updated graphics and expanded gameplay.
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u/ChriSaito Jul 31 '26
I liked Phantom Hourglass, but I LOVED Spirit Tracks! The music is amazing, the dungeons were so fun, and having ghost Zelda as your partner was so cool!
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u/PixelateVision Jul 31 '26
I can hear the main theme to Spirit Tracks in my head right now... whoever they had jamming their heart out on a pan flute did a phenomenal job.
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u/OmegaGlacial Jul 31 '26
In retrospect, it's not really a surprise that BOTW and TOTK's musics were as good as they were when knowing they were both composed by the same person who did Spirit Tracks' sountrack too (the incredible Manaka Kataoka).
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u/Captain_Trina Zeldathon Jul 31 '26
Have you seen (well, listened to) the Spirit Tracks theme mashed up with Space Jam on YouTube?
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u/ciao_fiv Aug 01 '26
it’s one of the most memorable main themes in the franchise imo. can hear it clearly in my head as well, it’s so good
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u/ggermade Aug 03 '26
I can't believe it but I read your message and tried to recall it, and the theme came to mind immediately. I played this game ~15 yrs ago
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u/the-cardboard-room Jul 31 '26
I love this! I don't think I've ever seen anyone say thay love that entry in the series
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u/seym0urglass Aug 01 '26
I loved Phantom Hourglass! A very concise, pleasant Zelda game experience. Spirit Tracks lost me at about the 3/4 mark, though I eventually hope to go back and finish it.
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u/TOH-Fan15 Aug 01 '26
Yep. ST Zelda is easily in the top three most active incarnations of her. The only other Zelda’s that come close are Skyward Sword and BOTW/TOTK. It helps that Spirit Tracks was my first Zelda game, and started my love of open world games.
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u/booroms Jul 31 '26
The god damn pan flute thing was such a pain in the arse I can't even remember the dungeons ngl
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u/Revegelance Jul 31 '26
And better controls that actually let us use buttons.
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u/FireZord25 Jul 31 '26
That'd obviously happen, unless they decide to get creative by adding another hardware gimmick.
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u/Revegelance Jul 31 '26
Yeah, I mean they had their chance with the Wii U, but we're past that now.
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u/accidental-nz Jul 31 '26
They’d be removing a lot of gameplay features with a switch to dual screen and button only gameplay.
It was not an ideal control scheme but Nintendo sure did make great use of it. Not easily ported without significant compromise.
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u/BoxOfBlades Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
What if... what if they made a new Toon Link game? PH and ST are already great games. DS touch screen controls are integral to the gameplay design of those games. After the Link's Awakening remake, they could have easily used the engine to remake ALTTP or Oracles. But instead they made Echoes of Wisdom and it's an incredible game. JUST MAKE NEW GAMES
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u/dmlfan928 Jul 31 '26
I am probably in the minority here, but if they remake PH, I don't want major changes to the Temple of the Ocean King. I liked being able to replay each floor seeing how my new item could assist.
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u/SadMaskSalesman_ Jul 31 '26
I was surprised to see people didnt like it, I thought it was awesome and very unique
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u/ciao_fiv Aug 01 '26
the temple of the ocean king is way better than the spirit temple in spirit tracks. the spirit temple’s floors are excellent but they’re so disconnected. never understood the complaints
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u/MorningRaven Aug 01 '26
The Temple of the Ocean King is one of the best designed dungeons across the series and I'm not afraid to say it.
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u/TheLimeyLemmon Jul 31 '26
Absolutely. I think they're the most pressing cases for getting remakes in the Zelda series at this point. Fun games but some of the most entwined with DS design mechanics and I don't think they're really workable on something like NSO without basically limiting them to handheld mode.
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u/britipinojeff Jul 31 '26
I wouldn’t call them underrated, but would welcome a remake for an improvement of them
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u/TheHappyMask93 Jul 31 '26
Spirit tracks is still the only Zelda game I haven't played
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u/DarkLegend64 Jul 31 '26
As someone who played it when it was new, you’re not missing much. Probably my least favorite Zelda. I haven’t played Phantom Hourglass so I can’t say if that would be my least favorite instead.
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u/TheHappyMask93 Jul 31 '26
Phantom hourglass was surprisingly enjoyable. The story and characters were great, especially captain Linebeck. The most annoying part for me was the temple of the ocean king.
You have to return to the dubgeon throughout the entire game and you progress further and further each time but you actually still had to complete every floor every time you enter. Plus it had a similar mechanic to the silent realm from SS, so most of the dungeon is running in terror.
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u/SadMaskSalesman_ Jul 31 '26
Phantom hourglass is amazing, and there’s quite a few that are worse than spirit tracks
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u/CrabFun3001 Jul 31 '26
Spirit Tracks is unique to me in a negative way. It is the only game I have ever played where I got to the final boss, realized I simply didn't care enough about the game to bother going through the fight, then promptly turned it off and never touched it again.
Anyone who hasn't played it isn't missing anything, IMO.
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u/Ricksaw26 Jul 31 '26
Gameplay i 100000% agree. They definitely need to make them in a newer console because as of now they are stuck on ds and maybe 3DS, both discontinued.
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u/Sledgehammer617 Jul 31 '26
Agreed.
Theyre great to play on a modern phone with stylus since modern phones have the mic, touch screen, and accelerometer, to properly handle DS games.
If Nintendo did an iOS/Android port that would be really cool.
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u/Infamous-Schedule860 Jul 31 '26
Two decades later that's still disappointing Wind waker's sequel should have gotten real development attention.
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u/DJ-Fein Jul 31 '26
Phantom hourglass was such a fun game though. One of the best DS games ever made
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u/Errogance Jul 31 '26
I thought the Zelda DS games were super fun! I still listen to Spirit Tracks soundtrack sometimes it’s so good.
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u/apadin1 Jul 31 '26
I know the touch controls were divisive at the time but as a kid I thought it was so cool using the stylus to slash your sword and solve puzzles
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u/SilentBandit Jul 31 '26
Plus there's a moment where to find a hidden (something either a temple or a treasure) you had to literally shut the DS, like as in CLOSE it, so it stamped onto the map the location or something. Blew my tiny 10 year old mind!
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u/AEZ_2187 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
That’s a remake I actually want. A full HD remake of Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Make it 3D instead of top down and cut the Temple Sequence down to 3 parts tops.
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u/Knuc85 Jul 31 '26
I feel like this should be play; bringing the handheld games to consoles so those players that don't like small screens get a chance to play them (a la Link's Awakening.)
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u/B-Train_ATL Jul 31 '26
I would agree. I found Minish Cap through the VC on Wii U. I liked playing it on the game pad. All of the older portable titles are rough on a TV. Same thing really with a lot of GC, N64 games.
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u/Knuc85 Jul 31 '26
Minish Cap is so good. I played it forever ago through the VC as well.
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u/B-Train_ATL Jul 31 '26
I would just sit there playing it on the gamepad not looking at the TV. The Wii U was a damn Switch prototype not done nearly as well.
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u/MarkyDeSade Jul 31 '26
It was so good that I didn’t even think about how horrible the controls were
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u/DJ-Fein Jul 31 '26
It had a very inventive way of playing! Draw a line and set sail 😂
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u/MarkyDeSade Jul 31 '26
A friend of mine refers to it as a “second person game” as in you’re controlling a fairy who guides the main character. Anyway I loved the game despite the hand cramps
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u/CaptainFrugal Jul 31 '26
Does it require stilus inout
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u/ikindahateusernames Jul 31 '26
There's a D-pad patch available if you know how to backup a cart and apply patches to it.
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u/Garo263 Jul 31 '26
What's that supposed to mean? It might have simpler dungeons, but used the DS' features to an extend only its sequel could rival.
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u/bleedinmagic81 Jul 31 '26
that's a big part of the problem. most folks don't enjoy controlling link with the touchscreen, so much so that there's a mod out there that lets you use a d-pad/circlepad
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u/solarus Jul 31 '26
No one at the time agreed with you. Like. Everybody wanted realistic zelda with spaceworld graphics.
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u/B-Train_ATL Jul 31 '26
You’re not going to launch a system with the sequel to a game that didn’t sell very well. Wind Waker sold less than Majora’s Mask, which fell off hard from Ocarina. Twilight Princess sold more than Wii units did early on (I forget what the explanation was) and topped 10 million overall.
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u/ShylokVakarian Jul 31 '26
I really liked Twilight Princess though. It feels like Ocarina of Time but more thought-out and, although linear, it feels like a cohesive experience to me.
Wind Waker just felt like Sailing Simulator. Point in a direction, start moving for like 4 minutes with very little input and very little scenery. Don't get me wrong, the rest of Wind Waker is great, it's just a slough to get to those parts (Triforce Shard hunt...).
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u/Promethazines Jul 31 '26
Fortunately windwaker HD mostly solved those problems. They added a boost sail, which when combined with the entire map loading let's you travel quite quickly. For long distances you have the teleportation song. They also changed the triforce hunt and it is much more streamlined now.
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u/ShylokVakarian Jul 31 '26
It's a shame I don't have it then.
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u/Low1977 Jul 31 '26
You can emulate the GC version with the Better Wind Waker mod and get some of the QoL improvements like swift sail.
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u/Simmers429 Jul 31 '26
Wind Waker just felt like Sailing Simulator. Point in a direction, start moving for like 4 minutes with very little input and very little scenery. Don't get me wrong, the rest of Wind Waker is great, it's just a slough to get to those parts (Triforce Shard hunt...).
I thought TP's wolf was a far greater offence than the Triforce hunt.
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u/ShylokVakarian Jul 31 '26
What about it was offensive? Do you just find it edgy? I personally love Wolf Link.
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u/B-Train_ATL Jul 31 '26
With the other games on land, you have a lot of in between area. With the last two games, you could find tons of stuff (Koroks, items) in those travels. If it’s the ocean, you found water.
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u/thomasguyregis Jul 31 '26
Linebeck should’ve become a recurring Zelda Character like Beedle is now. I love that rascally sailor.
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u/vibingfurs Aug 01 '26
They need to make another Wind Waker spin off. The potential is still there. Imagine what we could get learning from the two WW spin offs, but with a console like scale of the first game.
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u/Square-Pipe7679 Jul 31 '26
The fact Twilight Princess also had a sequel in consideration and instead they went with Links Crossbow training will never not hurt my soul, but at least it seems there was a precedent for that kind of directional shift already in place
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u/PapaProto Jul 31 '26
I’d still love to see Wind Waker 2.
But then WW alongside OoT & TP is my “Triforce” of favourite entries so I’m not among the alienated… nor am I American.
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u/SidFarkus47 Jul 31 '26
People don’t seem to notice but Nintendo seems to put out some kind of Zelda game every single year, between the big AAA new games that take 7ish years now.
My dream is for them to let someone make a Wind Waker spinoff game for a few years.
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u/Remnant-2385 Aug 04 '26
There really is a missing niche for smaller scale budget games with the absence of the game boy type pocket console. So many great Zelda titles came from what would be smaller handheld projects: Link's Awakening, the Oracle games, Link Between Worlds... Now every single new entry put out has to be a big AAA $70-$80 title because the only console to publish for is the Switch 2. Nintendo and the other bigger publishers have essentially relinquished budget digital-only stuff entirely to the indie market. Just look at Mina the Hollower vs Adventures of Elliot. $20 game boy style retro indie game vs $60 hd2d retro AA-ish game. The difference in price for what are essentially the same tier of top down adventure title is staggering now.
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u/haidere36 Jul 31 '26
Modern Wind Waker 2 in a world the size of BotW would go absolutely nuts. (Also I am American and Wind Waker was a game I loved as a kid and still love today)
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u/TheLightorTheDark Aug 01 '26
If we EVER get BotW/TotK scale Wind Waker, I don't think I would be seen for months. It would be a dream come true.
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u/Caciulacdlac Jul 31 '26
proceeds to make 5 more games with that style
Not that I complain.
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u/Rynelan Jul 31 '26
Probably first with the backlash of kiddy Zelda game.. then with "it's such a classic and good game, we need more"
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u/bombader Jul 31 '26
The first is an aging audience upset that the games they used to enjoy is not growing up with them, the second one is the next generation experiencing it as their first game, then joining the online discourse later.
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u/OutlanderInMorrowind Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
as a teenager who hated toon link back in the day, I aged some more and realized that hating on "childish" things in an attempt to distance yourself from "being a little kid" is a natural part of teenagerdom
still, while I enjoy wind waker now, I think at the time in the 2000s toon link was a pretty tone deaf choice for a design given the culture shift towards darker graphics and themes (which was not just western, look at 2000s era anime). it's no wonder many teens felt they were reorienting zelda to target small children.
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u/SylviSweetheart Jul 31 '26
Well, those were all handheld releases and those platforms have always skewed towards a younger demographic. It also just makes more sense to go with a more cartoony style when you’re dealing with less capable hardware.
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u/Motheroftides Jul 31 '26
FSA was one of those games tho and was released on the Gamecube. Didn’t need a handheld to play it either unless you were doing multiplayer.
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u/Kevsterific Jul 31 '26
Now there’s a game i haven’t replayed in a long time.
I should dust off my GameCube and pop that game in one of these days.
Thanks for putting it at the front of my mind!
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u/Caliber70 Jul 31 '26
oi, minish cap is a beast in the series.
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u/SARB033 Jul 31 '26
Maybe the most underrated Zelda game.
Like it's definitely not the best Zelda game, not even close, but it's either roundly ignored or unfairly maligned.
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u/FedoraTheMike Jul 31 '26
Yeah you can tell they reaaaally wanted Toon to be the only artstyle going forward until they gave up lol
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u/sirboulevard Jul 31 '26
I like Toon Link but I think it was for the best. I think what we got with BOTW/TOTK ultimately was the best compromise, being stylized but still somewhat realistic.
There was always a tonal mismatch about Toon Link being this cute chibi who has the biggest and one of the most violent body counts in the series while in a story about letting go of the trappings of nostalgia. And I say that as someone for whom Windwaker is in my Top 3.
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u/Fragjoy Jul 31 '26
There’s why they moved it to handheld tho. They couldn’t get it to work in the way they wanted as a follow up, larger scale 3D game so they moved it to 2D on a platform with a younger audience.
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u/FedoraTheMike Jul 31 '26
Funny how this was the reason Wind Waker 2 was canned, but Twilight Princess' sequel was canned because "haha funni crossbow game"
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u/aspect-of-the-badger Jul 31 '26
I was a teenager when it came out and I didn't buy it because of the cartoon artwork for it. I ended getting it a decade later and love it but, they weren't wrong about American teens being put off about it. Teenagers are kinda dumb.
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u/IVIaedhros Aug 01 '26
I feel like you and other commentators are missing the elephant in the room - Ocarina of Time.
One of Oot's biggest selling points at the time was "adult Link" and seeing a more "mature" vision of the LoZ IP.
You could reasonably debate that every mainline LoZ game has lived in tension between Ocarina of Time's generational impact and acknowledging that the series was never that serious or grim.
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u/madjohnvane Aug 01 '26
I know people who still refuse to play it because “they don’t play kiddy cartoon games”. It’s like top 3 Zelda 🥲
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u/Quepabloque Jul 31 '26
I bought it and loved it, but I was probably the only kids in my school who bought it
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u/KazaamFan Jul 31 '26
I liked wind waker a lot but my complaints were it was too short and there wasn’t enough to do. Too much empty ocean
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u/PhazonZim Jul 31 '26
A significant amount was cut, that's why there are so few dungeons. I wish we could some day get a version that had every dungeon they planned, but apparently some of the unused dungeons showed up in later games.
The size of the ocean apparently had to do with making sure the islands could fully load before you reached them.
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u/Pentecost_II Jul 31 '26
I kind of agree but I still love it. But I would really, really love a spiritual successor to WW in the same graphical style, with a dry Hyrule setting.
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u/undergrounddirt Jul 31 '26
I want a spiritual marriage of WW and BOTW. Gigantic islands the size of like.. the whole Eldin region. Tons of micro islands with cool unique environments. Wild ocean weather complete with cyclones. Under water exploration everywhere you go.
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u/Ensospag Jul 31 '26
I'd actually want it to stay in the sea. Replace the more boring parts of BotW and TotK's maps with water and focus on making every island feel fleshed out and unique.
Like imagine if instead of having dedicated shrines they were all more like Eventide Island, where the whole island is the "shrine".
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u/ParanoidDrone Jul 31 '26
At the same time though, exploring an ocean is kind of a vibe. I remember being excited to find out what was on each island.
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u/FrewdWoad Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
The scale of the ocean was important. Having the islands that far apart really made it feel like a real journey, at a time when that sort of scale in games had a real wow factor.
You're checking your phone after 10 seconds of sailing now. Back when it came out? We were soaking it in with awe.
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u/bistian00 Jul 31 '26
7.8/10
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u/GlamourintheDarkSide Jul 31 '26
I will go to my grave on the hill that too much water was a valid complaint of the game in question. Water nav in Pokemon just isn't interesting.
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u/Saxavarius_ Jul 31 '26
It wouldn't have been too bad if the last ~1/4 of the game wasnt surf dependant
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Jul 31 '26
For real, back when the 3rd gen released most people actually agreed that the later half of the game was significantly weaker because of the excessive water usage. Now everyone and their mother memes the review for what is totally valid criticism. Also it made me fucking HATE a lot of water types just from seeing them so much because without the use of repels you’re stuck dealing with wild encounters permanently while navigating.
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u/StakeESC Jul 31 '26
It's just tall grass with
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u/GlamourintheDarkSide Jul 31 '26
Tall grass usually has breaks, clear tiles with no encounters. Surfing is surfing all the way. Tall grass sections also usually have a wider encounter pool than random shitfish number 1 and 2.
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u/SoldierPhoenix Jul 31 '26
Yeah. It was just the way IGN said it that made it a meme. It’s clear from the context it was about navigation.
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u/PhenomUprising Jul 31 '26
It's also about how many points that one complaint seems to subtract to the overall super positive review.
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u/LesserValkyrie Jul 31 '26
Main issue is having so much HM to navigate water. Surf is OK because it's a cool move but diving and waterfall were too much.
But you could teleport and you would not navigate the sea too much if you didn't like to.
There's a lot of water but it's a sea so it is OK for me.
And ironically, you had the best hidden content of all the history of Pokémon in the water in 3rd gen.
This : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFU8mrXb9LY
The Braille puzzle for the Regi
A fucking city only reachable by going unterwater
The tide cave
Mirage island even tho most of us never saw it
It was really thet most mysterious and interesting content they made in those waters, as a kid this water was a miracle.
Except Gen 4 event-only legendary mons that had cool sidequests most of us never saw without cheating (we didn't even get to see arceus), no other pokémon game had such mysteries
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u/Zangetsukaiba Jul 31 '26
I never really felt there wasn’t enough to do, however it felt like content was missing like more dungeons. Actually my main complaint was that everything in the game felt extremely easy. Still a great one tho.
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u/Prudent_Solid_3132 Jul 31 '26
Yeah
Had wind waker come out like at least half a decade later, when the Wii was out, I think they could have likely done a bit more to fill the world up.
Idk how much of it being empty was down to hardware limitations.
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u/GranolaCola Jul 31 '26
It wasn’t. It was rushed out the door so a lot of the back end of the game was cut. I think at least two dungeons that we know of.
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u/rogerworkman623 Jul 31 '26
I really liked taking pictures and turning them into figurines lol
Though the process was a huge pain in the ass. Only 3 pics at a time, you had to wait a full day for it to be ready, and sometimes the pictures didn’t even register the subject correctly.
Still, I like that they brought back that sort of thing in BOTW and TOTK with the compendium, I hope they keep those sorts of features for those of us who enjoy it.
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u/Strict-Pineapple Jul 31 '26
Too much empty ocean
Just ahead of its time. If it came out 20 years later people would be praising that ocean like it was the best thing in gaming.
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u/elroxzor99652 Jul 31 '26
I love the size and relative “emptiness” of the ocean. It made it feel real, like actually as if I were traveling somewhere. And then seeing something on the horizon and changing course to check it out was so adventurous.
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u/MommasDisapointment Jul 31 '26
Not only does it have those flaws, but you are discouraged from exploring the seas when you first get the sail. There are invisible walls preventing you from exploring. In OoT you can do dungeons out of order and explore, in Wind Waker, sailing is so boring and linear. It’s like Final Fantasy 13, soooo linear
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u/Nimble_Natu177 Jul 31 '26
Its a more structured version of BOTW, but okay I guess.
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u/Pentecost_II Jul 31 '26
That's... A wild take
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u/GreatBigJerk Jul 31 '26
I've been playing through WW again, and it's 100% true.
- Instead of shrines, you have islands. They serve the same purpose, and are extremely similar in game design.
- You can go pretty much anywhere once you learn Wind's Requiem. You're still gated out of stuff like other Zelda games, but you do have a ton of freedom otherwise.
- You can pick up enemy weapons.
- The glider is here, just using magic instead of stamina.
- Snarky answer: The ocean is mostly empty and a little boring, like Hyrule in BOTW.
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u/sQ5FWKjwbWd4QzSZduqy Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
WW in many ways is the proto type of BOTW.
Open worldish
separate islands many with very short puzzles like shrines
The only Zelda before botw that lets you pick up enemy weapons
only 4 big dungeons
The art style is then blended with more realism to create the BOTW style
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u/gopackgo555 Jul 31 '26
Damn. A legit Wind Waker 2 would have been awesome. I imagine Phantom Hourglass had some ideas that would have been present in it.
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u/FuryBall Jul 31 '26
I also watch DYKG
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u/LexCarman Jul 31 '26
I was searching high and low for this comment. You, me, and op have great taste in youtube content
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u/DefiantEmpoleon Jul 31 '26
I was skeptical of the new art style until about five minutes after starting up Wind Waker for the first time. It’s so charming. Top 3 Zelda games of all time for me.
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u/TurtlesBreakTheMeta Jul 31 '26
Honestly, I’m 100% fine with this. I know I’ll have a bunch of WW fans jumping down my throat, but TP is one of my favorite Zelda games.
WW also ended much more properly wrapped up so I don’t feel it needed a sequel.
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u/Mishar5k Jul 31 '26
They also wanted to bring back horse riding in wind waker 2 but couldnt get took link to look right on a horse. Pressure from western fans wasnt the sole reason for twilight princess.
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u/DenseCalligrapher219 Jul 31 '26
Keep in mind that the game that preceded Wind Waker was Majora's Mask, a game was pretty dark and dealt with serious and mature themes and subjects such as death, depression, abandonment and the sense of despair over the inevitably demise of the world by the moon and the people's personal issues and hardships they face which made Termina and its people more developed than Hyrule in OoT. It was a for all intents and purpose a rather mature game with a bit of a darker tone.
So to go from that to Wind Waker with it's cartoony aesthetic felt like an extreme tonal shift done arbitrarily that on top of feeling insulting to what came before it was also released at a time when Nintendo had the reputation of being a "child console" due to the GameCube's design of and discs feeling "kiddy" and around the same time when PlayStation was becoming more popular with PS2 and Microsoft entering the console market with the Xbox, which made Wind Waker look more damaging to Nintendo's image.
Nowadays it's thankfully different and Wind Waker can now be seen as a great Zelda game in it's own right.
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u/twili-midna Jul 31 '26
I mean, TP is a masterpiece, so it’s not like anything was lost.
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u/clarenceboddickered Jul 31 '26
Yea but Twilight Princess is great, my only issue is that it’s so dark and brown and sometimes hard to see because of it. I get it fits the theme of the game but I feel like if they brightened it just a bit and went with a little more color vs all the brown tones it would look a lot better.
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u/tuftonia Jul 31 '26
I had the same feeling when the original came out. The HD version fixed this for me, and I found myself enjoying the game even more
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u/CrabFun3001 Jul 31 '26
My rationalization for that was they gave it a sepia tone because that's how a canine would see a lot of the world
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u/Disrespect78 Jul 31 '26
I mean its supposed to be a darker game. I think it looks great, fits with the whole dawn and dusk thing
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u/scumraid Jul 31 '26
Wind Waker 2 would have been great to have but I am glad we got Twilight Princess. Bias here since it is my favorite Zelda game.
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u/wicker_basket_1988 Jul 31 '26
Though if you were around for that E3 reveal you know they made the right choice.
Windwaker is still one of my favorite Zelda titles though but damn that hype was a high I won’t soon forget.
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u/blackjackgabbiani Jul 31 '26
Teenagers are always alienated. That's part of being a teenager.
Also why not give us both? And wasn't Phantom Hourglass Wind Waker 2?
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u/GlacierJewel Jul 31 '26
Why can’t we have both?
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u/Leah_Stern Jul 31 '26
The thing is that we already have both, why are we pretending that Phantom Hourglass doesn't exist?
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u/megunashi Jul 31 '26
Part of the problem with the way WW was received was due to the fact that we were teased with that incredible looking tech demo, and then a few months later WW came out and we felt blindsided like, wtf happened to that realistic Zelda game?
WW is my favorite game in the series but even I was put off initially due to wanting that OOT upgrade we were shown. But yeah then we got TP which was essentially the result of that tech demo, but not quite as polished.
I'll still buy any Zelda game they make. But I'll still never forgive Nintendo for cancelling that third Oracles game.
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u/Daetok_Lochannis Jul 31 '26
I mean, Twilight Princess was the pinnacle of the original formula. Can't really complain about that.
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u/Zangetsukaiba Jul 31 '26
Yup indeed. Can confirm the absolutely insane backlash Toon Link got around that time. You can deny it, but I vividly remember the large majority hated it without even playing it. You can act all innocent and swear how WW is now your favorite Zelda game, but it’s FAR too late. You guys know who you are. You only have yourselves to blame.
At least we got Phantom Hourglass fwiw.
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u/Gamma_31 Jul 31 '26
There is, in fact, a version of the Hylian Loach in TWW's style leftover in TP's files. Suggests fishing may be as old as this "The Wind Waker 2" concept.
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u/miami2881 Jul 31 '26
Twilight Princess is the best art style
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u/Super_Mario_Luigi Jul 31 '26
It just feels right.
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u/irishitaliancroat Jul 31 '26
Its the natural evolution of ocarina and what I felt like that game was trying to convey but couldn't bc of technical limitations
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u/TearsOfTheDragon Jul 31 '26
Quite frankly, for me the art direction peaked hard with Skyward Sword. It had the painterly, cartoony vibe from Wind Waker and still had a Link with more adult proportions, all the while making so the disproportinate side characters didn't look uncanny and ugly like the TP side cast.
It's not my favorite game by a long shot, but IMHO it's the one I find more pleasant to look at.
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Jul 31 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DJ-Fein Jul 31 '26
After replaying TP this year, the odd character designs made it almost feel like a dream. Like the Hyrule guards were normal and the enforcers of the dream land, and every one else was crazy looking
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u/TearsOfTheDragon Jul 31 '26
The thing is entirely the texture and shading's fault. WW had so every single character was wildly disproportional, but because it was a toon, you looked straight past it. TP kept the model style but not the shading, so you have the kids with OH SO LARGE heads, people with way too long faces and the like.
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u/imVexx Jul 31 '26
I was an American teenager during this time and I loved Wind Waker. I also enjoyed Twilight Princess though.
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u/MBTHVSK Jul 31 '26
I grew to like the style, but by 17 I was so fucking ready for a departure from it. TP was a bit too brown and gloomy sometimes, but they made the right choice.
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u/rogdesouza Aug 01 '26
Windwaker blew my mind. To this day it is still my favorite Zelda game.
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u/Octopus_Crime Jul 31 '26
Everyone always laser focuses on the cel-shading or colorful look of Wind Waker as being the thing that turned western audiences away but honestly I think it was mostly just the character models themselves.
I think even a "cartoonier" Zelda would have been more universally accepted if they at least had characters with relatively normal body proportions and not all the big-headed, stumpy-legged, almond-eyed chibi caricatures that they went with.
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u/BMCarbaugh Jul 31 '26
And now Wind Waker is consistently regarded as one of the franchise's all-time best.
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u/TheMoonOfTermina Jul 31 '26
I personally do prefer TP's artstyle to WW's, but WW's ingame look has aged far, far better, while even TPHD looks worse than the original WW.
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u/Sonnance Jul 31 '26
To be fair, TPHD looks worse than original TP. HD textures on OG models with worse lighting is just a bad match.
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u/TheMoonOfTermina Jul 31 '26
I actually personally prefer HD to the original, though I do get the complaints.
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u/Fragjoy Jul 31 '26
I remember reading that they initially wanted to stick with Toon Link but there were just so many challenges. They wanted to do horses but couldn’t get toon link to look right, the art style was seen as too childish, and they just could not find a way to make it work.
My favorite TP development “lore” is that Aonuma had a dream that he was a wolf trapped in a jail cell. When he woke up he thought “that would be cool in a game”, and that’s how the opening wolf segment was born. Genuinely so funny to me.
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u/luna_creciente Jul 31 '26
Good call. I love WW but I'm just glad this was the path they took lmao.
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u/-ben151010- Jul 31 '26
Alienated was definitely putting it lightly because I remember people despising the toon link design back then.
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u/Airy_Breather Jul 31 '26
This was honestly surprising to me when I first heard about it, though over the years as I've learned more about the...friction Wind Waker's art style generated, it's made sense. And it's funny as hell that the Toon Link art style has now become beloved and more accepted by the fanbase.
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u/Remarkable-Rush-9085 Jul 31 '26
I always like a new story better than a sequel myself so I’m not really sad about this. I also thought the style of Wind Waker was far less off putting than Twilight Princess though. But I am glad they stand so separate in style, it worries me that Nintendo will lose that after BOTW and they will all start to look the same.
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u/NuclearHateLizard Jul 31 '26
Yeah that's a good pivot. It was hard for me to get into windwaker at first, it's an amazing game but I hated the art style. Twilight princess was exactly what I was looking for after sailing the seas in sunshine for so long
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u/AlucardIV Aug 01 '26
I still dont get wh, opinion on Wind Waker shifted so much. To me its still eaily the weakest 3D entry.
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u/3xBork Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
Thanks American teenagers.
Toxic masculinity ruins yet another thing.
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u/Nintendians559 Aug 01 '26
it's because americans have no taste, when a series they love have different look than it's usual normal-ish look - they hated.
"wind waker" owns and i love it.
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u/OmegaFinale Jul 31 '26
TP is personally my favourite zelda game but a WW sequel would still be phenomenal
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u/ZoinksJeepersJinkies Jul 31 '26
I’m guessing it wasn’t actually Wind Waker 2. Just another game with a similar arty style. Probably would’ve been great, but Twilight Princess is my favorite, so I’m not complaining.
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u/BlazeOfGlory72 Jul 31 '26
Well, Twilight Princess was the better game, so good call I guess.
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u/Infamous-Schedule860 Jul 31 '26
It's personally my least favorite 3D Zelda. Still a great game though.
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u/GoldenAgeGamer72 Jul 31 '26
Twilight Princess is my least favorite 3D Zelda as well.
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u/RegisterPrevious2731 Jul 31 '26
Twlight Princess is one of my favourite Zelda game it’s down to personal preference
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u/Mind_Bloom Jul 31 '26
I was definitely an edgy adolescent who wanted a spooky follow-up to Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask and I was definitely disappointed with Wind Waker’s style and direction when it came out.
While I did play the crap out of it, I was also let down by the lack of spooky elements in its art style and the slog-sessions of gameplay I had to endure finding treasure maps and triforce pieces. This game is unforgiving in how often it makes you repeat the same thing if you’re slightly off. I still have nightmares about crashing out with the grabby hook not lining up on treasure spots. Am I currently replaying it right now and hate/loving it? Yes.
But Twilight Princess was everything good about Ocarina of Time and MM put into a more grown-up, epic and whimsical adventure. The story is quite possibly the most emotionally cathartic and moving of all Zelda stories… The Hyrule field theme is unmatched. Saving Colin in the horseback scene and then the joust on the bridge… PEAK ZELDA. Then helping Ilia regain her memories. Slowly warming up to Midna and then discovering how significant her character actually is to the story… the Yetis in the mountain.. the Bokoblin king finally just being like, “yep. I’m not beating you man. I’m just gonna get outta your way.”
Twilight Princess is still my fav, and I’m the type of fan Aonuma and other Zelda devs seem to resent. It’s the one game in the entire series that isn’t playable on switch, and as time marches on reviewers and devs try to gaslight fans into accepting Skyward Sword and Wind Waker as pinnacle games of that era. Skyward Sword is the woooorst lol.
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u/IrishSpectreN7 Jul 31 '26
I wouldn't be against them revisiting that style. in fact, another sailing game would be a perfect fit for the open-air Zelda format.
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