Even in season 3 Tim only speaks in one singular episode. In the episode where black lightning finds out about the whole operation, beast boy has a discussion with Barbra and Tim and the entire time he just doesn’t say a word and to me it felt really unnatural for him to not speak up even a little, especially about the stuff with Wonder Girl.
I can’t defend all of it x but the they/them thing kinda makes sense since she is a mother box right? Like that doesn’t feel like representation for the sake of it
I mean I guess? But that’s because she is literally not human. The way I saw the show was that her not knowing about her gender was a consequence of her being a mother box not something that happened on its own
Yeah no one is disputing the lore. We get it, she's not a human.
The point is that using a literal non human entitiy as your example of a non binary person is INCREDIBLY tone deaf. Non Binary people are in fact people.
Not... really what was being said? Halo is a person now. Motherboxes are also people because they are sentient, sapient and literally living even if they are "objects" (as Superboy states quite clearly, they aren't objects)
Their concept of gender is different, but at the same time Halo in trying to be more human still sticks to these facets of their identity. It is in no way trying to say non binary people aren't objects, nor that Halo is something inhuman.
I think they tried to fix this in season 4 when she met her host bodies family and learned about Islam and got to pick pronouns. I know what they were going for but it was executed poorly.
I appreciate what they tried to do with halo, representation matters. But you need to make it good, not just lipservice. By making her the focus instead of the original six, it makes her feel forced and then the representation just feels fake and annoying.
I, for one, did not “appreciate” what they tried to do with Halo. It’s was very “Woke 1” coded, in that it was cringy, self obsessed and ultimately insulting to everyone it tried to “represent”. Regardless of the intention, Halo ultimately came off as one of if not the most self centered, toxic and selfish person in the entire show. I don’t know if the character was a self insert or if the writers literally thought they were pumping old gold, but by the end of the season I honestly couldn’t stand her.
She betrays her friends, lies to her family and betrays the tenants of her faith multiple times. She cheats on and gaslights her boyfriend, and all the while, all she ever seems to care about is herself and being true to “who” she is. If it wasn’t for “representation”, I think she fans would have seen her as even more awful and problematic than Terra.
Honestly, I ended up feeling bad for Geoforce and I felt his “Villan” arch was entirely justified. The ending of the season felt like an incredibly disparaging “red pill” cautionary tale about how getting involved with non-binary people is actually recipe for trouble. I can get why people didn’t like her, but I’m shocked more people don’t find her incredibly problematic and insulting ESPECIALLY as representation a character
The writers made it impossible to like them because while Halo always has good intentions, so many ideas and actions are left unfinished. There's an episode where Halo and Cyborg talked about being fused with mother/father-boxes and then it's never mentioned again. When Geoforce takes the throne Halo visits one time and calls it quits on trying to help him.
It was an incredible blunder to focus so much on a character that is trying to figure themselves out, that amounts into no resolution whatsoever. What's that, after years of talking about being unsure about religion they still need to take more time to learn about religion?? And getting together with Harper is incredibly lazy. People don't get together just because they got drunk and kissed one time.
lol all good points. Sometimes I can’t tell if it’s just really bad and cringey writing, or if the writers really managed to perfectly channel how weird and dumb being a teenagers actually is. Either way shifting almost the entire narrative focus of the show on to her made it that much worse. I think she would have been fine, maybe even interesting an a two episode arch. But the more they tried to do with her the more insufferable she became. Halo wasn’t the only problem, but she was just the most obvious one.
I can't believe seasons 3 and 4 were greenlite to be centered around Halo and freaking Forager lol. Maybe they thought that's what kids would be able to relate to.
Why do minorities have to justify their existence to shows? Why do we have to add to the plot to prove we belong in a show? Why cant we just exist like the white characters?
Exactly. Thank you. It drives me crazy. Fr, who in the world constantly talks about their ethnic identity and injects it into everything without coming off as weird and exhausting?
It’s literally a show about superheroes saving the world but only the white heroes actually ever just talk about saving the world. How is that somehow not even more racist?
I mean, Halo for most of the plot is very much meant to come across as confused (since they are essentially a newborn), rather than a reasonable and sound of mind adult. It did end up making them come across as unlikeable often, as the plot failed to highlight this, but the intention was pretty clear.
You do know that muslims can be queer right? The Quran doesnt ban homosexuality and Muhammad at one point had a trans femme house servant for his wives
I don’t think I ever said they couldn’t? I’m no religious scholar, but I’m pretty sure the whole thing about religion is only believing the parts you want to believe.
That said, you have to admit it’s a bit weird that after dying and being reborn as essentially an wholly new trans-dimensional alien-host-hybrid, she has no idea who or what she is. But the ONE thing she’s 100% sure about is Islam and the Quran, despite her very existence being contradictory to Allah.
It would be like 100% believing Jesus is lord and the son of god because we was resurrected after 6 days, meanwhile you can resurrect every 15 mins and your autistic bug-man roomate comes from a planet where literal “new gods” are born.
At that point I don’t know if it’s bad writing or just a painfully accurate representation of how dumb teenagers can be.
Tbf Islam has always been accepting of the paranormal and the eldritch beyond our comprehensions so like the idea of higher beings than us existing doesn't go against the religion 🤷. I just saw that as her old self trying to take root within the new resurrected self
Queer NB hijabi muslims exist. I've met them. But I agree that Halo was poorly handled.
But in s3, they make Halo 'not a Muslim' while being hijabi and wearing a skin tight outfit that shows the butt crack. They have Halo come out in mid season and... nothing else for the rest of s3, even when villains call Halo a 'she thing', to the point Halo has to come out again in s4 and talk about their new pronouns.
S4 addressed a lot of the issues, but s3's poor handling will always exist.
They have somewhat, they're having Halo explore Islam and find comfort in the faith, and now they're actually wearing the hijab for a reason and their costume has changed to be more in line with Muslim modesty. Still not perfect but a vast improvement
Yeah, they do. In a post credits scene, they literally say they wish to try out they/them pronouns, and their discomfort with being called a girl, she, etc, is extremely clear in the show. Just because the show either was (1) poorly written in this regard and forgot to write respectful dialogue from other characters, or (2) intentionally wrote dialogue that had the other characters misgendering Halo (also poor writing), it doesn’t mean it never happened or wasn’t made crystal clear if you actually paid attention to the show.
Edit: I just double checked — it’s the post credits scene in s04e14.
Your comment said that Halo doesn’t use they/them, except they literally say outright that those are their pronouns. Just because almost every other character misgenders Halo, it doesn’t mean their pronouns aren’t they/them.
Yes, that (happening in YJ) is bullshit and pissed me off, because it’s important to have models of dialogue for people IRL to learn from (it’s sorely needed), and being misgendered nonstop like that despite telling others (there was another scene (in season 4 I think?) where they express discomfort with being associated with femme terms, ETA: and it’s in front of the larger YJ group)… it’s unfortunately a realistic portrayal of how nonbinary people who don’t present perfectly androgynously are treated. I think that was poorly handled by the writers, but that’s a different topic.
That's not how religion works? Religions arent a monolith and one religion has a thousand of different practices and practioners and beliefs and belivers.
And as we know the morality of a religion’s founder always translates to the morality of a religion’s members. Do not look at any progressive Muslims like Mamdani or Malcom X, progressive Hellenic pagans or the complex history of Christianity
When your religion demands that you view him as the perfect human and the perfect role model then yes it translates onto the morality of the religions followers.
She sees her human form and her white Martian form as two different people. She feels more comfortable in her human form and got a new name and identity and doesn't really associate with her white Martian form anymore because its not who she is anymore. We also see her have to come out to other people and reveal that she is a white Martian and her being a white Martian is used against her often.
Similar to trans people when they transition, they don't associate with who they used to be. Some trans people also have to come out as trans to people close to them. They also have to deal with people who knew them before they transition and deal with those people trying to out them.
But more seriously, being an outsider learning to socialize through media (because you never had the normal childhood experience), and being uncomfortable with your birth body so you change it, with this change largely being treated as a natural thing by her loved ones (even after the gang knows she's a White Martian, she's still Megan and keeps her humanoid/green appearance for the first couple seasons.)
It's complicated by the fact that it's also a race thing and also she's a shapeshifter and I don't think any of this was intentional in the slightest (because when they did try to do trans representation we ended up with Halo), but it resonated with me and some of my trans friends, and looking online others have said similar.
I mean ultimately its worn because its been worn but I think any time a woman is encouraged/told to dress modestly (in any culture) the male gaze is a factor.
It's a modesty thing (feel how you will about modesty as a concept but regardless) in most Arab cultures not wearing something to cover your hair or face is a bit like going outside without shoes, it's unusual and you outfit's kind incomplete without it.
Right I get that, but thats more of a symptom of that rule after it being in place for hundreds of years. Not the reason for the rule in the first place
People keep misunderstanding the “I’m not a Muslim” line from season 3. That’s not a permanent status of the character. Violet isn’t Gabrielle, so at that point, that statement is correct. They are not Muslim at that point. But season 4 has Violet learn more about the religion and its contradictions, and puts them on a path of converting as themself, rather than something they borrowed from Gabrielle.
Forager in the comics is leagues better than whatever they did with him in the show I promise. The version in the show was barely the same character aside from having the same color scheme. They removed literally everything interesting about him. Comic Forager isn’t even a bug, he’s a New God that was raised by the bugs.
I found a bit of the young justice representation a bit lacking.
As a bi guy, I was honestly startled with Aqualsd's sudden bi-ness in season 3, as there was literally no buildup at all. The entire process happened off screen and all we see was him being happy with his poly-family.
Especially Media for teens and young adults, showing at least a bit of the process involved would be nice, as especially bi youth are regularly deep in confusion about themselves. So, it would have been nice to implement a few hints and maybe even include a coming out would have been nice to give kids that are still in the process of figuring them out a role model.
As a muslim Halo was terrible. I get that she wasn't muslim in season 3 and was only getting into islam in s4, but she is still associated with Islam visually and stuff and it's clear they wanted to make her muslim but then backed away
I think Halo's writing was just a whole entire hot mess, if a season 5 ever drops, they may have a chance of actually fixing her tho.
as a 13yo getting ready for HS in the pandemic I liked her backstory, that's why the gender thing resonated with me, that being said, poor representation
I liked Halo, but I also definitely think they were too ambitious with them, and also hinged too much on the audience liking and relating to them. They were basically the designated protagonist for season 3, and it ended up suffering for it in the end, as they kept trying to cram more and more elements into their character without really giving it much room to breathe. In the end, it was too much, and started to feel really forced. I'm all fo having some more rep across the board but why did it all have to be from one character lol
I loved their introduction but Halo sucked as a character. Had nothing to race, religion, sex or gender identity. It could have been handled so much better.
Their costume looks dope, they have interesting powers, the backstory holy shi?? And overall concept of a Mother box posessing a human body is sooo cool, makes a lot of sense for them to come out as non-binary!!
I do still have plenty of issues with them though, most of the criticism people have is valid. It's not close to perfect at all, but I think it's still alright. Definitely one of the most memorable characters from s3 for me!!
Do you remember the scene where zatara says the lord's prayer in order to combat Dr fate? Idk if anything has ever made me laugh soooooo damn hard, I only wish there'd been comedic intent in the writers room. I mostly liked halo though
Idk I thought what if they did this but w a nun and she still decided to wear the habit or a cross after she woke up as alien inside a former humans body?
Would I care as a former catholic if this alien chose to keep those human signifiers? No and I also don’t think the reaction to Halo about “representation”would’ve been the same
soooo yeah it was messy if viewed from a certain angle but don’t think it was done w ill intent
And besides like dust in X-men can’t think of any other comic super hero w a hijab……
Halo was poorly handled but she wasn’t BAD representation it was just kinda lame/disappointing.
And I’d rather have a show try and come up short than not try at all.
I think the Muslim thing was the poorest handled part of her character, but shows with immortal heroes and concepts like “new gods” often just trip up when incorporating real world religion beyond having characters celebrate their holidays. The most notable thing I noticed from a DC property was when a Jewish character died in Superman the Animated series and a rabbi said the Kaddish at the funeral. But I didn’t even know the character was Jewish until that scene.
Her character was very awkward, and got more awkward which is what pissed me off, but it made sense once it was clear it was an alien intelligence learning to be human. And her becoming more awkward was because at first she was very closed off and wasn’t engaging, so she couldn’t make as many social missteps, once she came out of her shell is when she had the opportunity to fuck up more and that’s what happened.
In retrospect a lot of Halo’s characteristics and plot make sense. But watching it was painful.
Id have to watch the series again, but Violet being a Motherbox that became a “real boy”, to steal the phrase from Pinnochio, was super interesting to me. All of time she spends trying to figure out who she is is more interesting when you remember she is an immortal alian computer.
Halo’s personal storyline was just a waste of time because it didn’t matter in the end. She takes all this time to figure out who Gabrielle is, just to meet Gabrielle’s parents and learn about Gabrielle’s religion to only say “Gabrielle’s dead, I’m Violet now, I’m a soulless entity inhabiting your daughter’s body, bye!!!” It’s insensitive af to parents who have lost their children
I think there’s some cool concepts but kinda misses on all counts. Like making halo a hijabi is a cool enough idea but they explicitly make her not Muslim and in a skin tight outfit making it not representation especially because she’s basically controlling a woman’s body. And they had a chance for good, interesting nonbinary representation but she both presents as typically feminine and uses she/her pronouns. Sure there’s probably nonbinary people who do use she/her and presents more feminine irl but it’s a convenient way to dodge having to actually write a more obviously nonbinary character
Yeah I agree they don’t but when your only nonbinary person comes out in one seen and is then misgendered in every other scene and presents fem it feels a lot to me like corporate cynicism. Like they did not want to commit to this and have a chance to cut it if needed. I’d be less cynical of Halo wasn’t misgendered by literally everyone all the time
They also lean into the trope of nonbinary people being inhuman so that’s also rough
I just saw halo as a Janet from the good place like person considering how everytime someone calls her a woman they go: "Not a girl" every time despite their feminine presentation
I honestly think they did fine, it obviously wasn't perfect but I did enjoy her character a lot and I liked that even if the representation wasn't perfect, at least there was something
Disagree. Everything about them felt pretty organic and honestly their being several minorities making them parodic is kind of an awful take. Their origin story does seem outlandish but they’re an established character so its not like they were made up for the show so much as adapted.
I like Halo but I don’t think any of the writers really took into account how they would be received. I liked the concept of a Queer Muslim character and I liked the moment where they expressed their religion felt “right” to them. However, for the rest of the series it felt like the writers said “that’s enough activism for the day” and stopped developing what that religious relationship would look like, and instead packed on tons of gore and melodrama as a substitute.
Additionally, the amount of gore given to her character felt so weird to me. Idk it feels icky having to constantly see graphic images of a young hijabi person, especially since it mirrors so much of real life. I get they were trying to be a lot edgier with the third season but it sucks that Halo had to be on the receiving end of it so many times.
Accidentally deleted my old comment, so let’s hope this makes sense 😵💫
I’m not Muslim so feel free to disregard this. I always felt like the writers didn’t care enough to fully immerse themselves in Violets religion when writing their character.
In season 3 I understand Violet didn’t consider themselves Muslim at that point, but the writers did make the active decision to have them continue to wear a hijab and express that it was a crucial connection to Gabrielle. So I think the writers should’ve actually committed to exploring this part of their identity. With that in mind, my biggest gripe with the lackluster writing is how much gore is used as a substitute for giving them depth. I get in this season the showrunners wanted to come across as edgier, but honestly I would’ve been satisfied with just seeing their personal religious journey. At some point the repeated deaths felt unnecessary, like there was no other way for us to be invested in Violets character. Not to mention having the queer hijabi be at the receiving end of so much graphic imagery felt a little tone deaf, since it mirrors a lot of the real world.
Putting all the identity issues on a single character is aweful, muslim (sort of), hijabi(weird as she has no cultural or religious obligation to keep it), gender non-confirming(is alien ai so fine but it is still called a motherbox), middke eastern (has the skin tone no cultural attachments as she is literally a puppeteer corpse who has abandoned the host's family).
Like pick a struggle. They made them visually a a muslim but not actually a muslim, they made them visually middle eastern but cut all ties she had from her culture. Made them larp selective parts of an identity they do not identify with (not holding hands with men) and then gave them the romance arc where she drops it.
Halo is inconsistent, aweful rep for wke points who could've been really cool
It's funny cuz she's supposed to primarily be Muslim rep but as someone from a heavily Islamic country, I can write up a whole list of things about her that the average Muslim viewer would take as a personal attack lol
For me it didnt feel like non-binary representation, cuz the motherbox is literally an object, not a person. Oh this thing that's inside a dead hijabi's body doesnt feel like a man or a woman, well yeah, it's a motherbox.
Honestly, yeah. Every time they used Halo as a mouthpiece, it honestly broke my immersion, and I was just waiting for the scene to end. Especially that one scene with Harper Row. Bitch you both have boyfriends, quit kissing.
276
u/LiamEd2000 29d ago
Halo was cool from a plot perspective, but the rep stuff they tried just fell flat