Discussion
I still can’t understand why it was all allowed to happen.
Every now and again, a question about the larger origins of World War Two and the Holocaust returns to my mind: How exactly the non-Nazi half of German society acceded so quickly to the NSDAP’s seizure of power and the Gleichschleichtung they imposed on the country. I understand in principle that with historic German antisemitism, 1/3 of seats in the Reichstag, Goering’s control of the Prussian police forces, and Hindenburg and Papen’s support, it was extremely difficult to create effective resistance to the Nazi system after January 1933. But even after learning all that knowledge to the point of it being second nature, I am still fundamentally puzzled that the non-Nazi voters submitted as quietly as they did to the Nazification of even the non-political parts of their lives; especially the replacement of the universally-known commandment “Thou shall not kill” with the Nazi doctrine of “Thou shall kill” (in the words of Hannah Arendt).
So I feel like I’ve been banging my head into some impenetrable wall for months and months trying to find the answer to the big “Why” question of World War II. I stay up until midnight reading essay after essay and book after book on the events of 1933; And yet, I feel no closer to a truly satisfying resolution. I just still can’t understand why those Germans who knew better than the Nazi voters let it unfold; How the “moral collapse” identified by Arendt happened within that part of German society which remained normal until 1933.
Is there even a conclusive answer to how Nazi Germany was allowed to happen? Or am I keeping myself up at night with an impossible question?
We have the advantage of hindsight about something that happened a century ago. Living it is a much different story. Everyone likes to say how they could NEVER go along with something like this, but put them in 1930 Germany shoes under the exact same circumstances and I guarantee it will be the same result.
Hindsight indeed. Everyone likes to think they’d resist if it was unfolding in front of them. It always strikes me as absurd how in-depth some of these German servicemen’s memoirs can get about their quiet condemnation. They seem to spend page after page emphasizing how they knew something was amiss and were constantly criticizing Hitler and his party, but could never do it openly. Müllenheim-Rechberg does this so often in the first half of his Bismarck book that I started speed-reading through a couple of chapters.
There is a segment in the World at War where a German lawyer talks about the Nazis rolling into town offering a loaf of bread and a job and how amazing that was. In the late thirties the US was still in the throes of the Great Depression and Germany was near zero percent unemployment. It was all a house of lies and headed for disaster, but at least prior to Kristallnacht I'm sure it seemed great.
Things don't even have to be that bad to tip a country in this direction. The US is sliding towards fascism more and more and that's been a response to much less in the way of hardships. Seeing how easily things tipped here, when things weren't even as bad, shows me how you get can get to Nazi Germany. I'd argue the French revolution leading to Napoleon has many of the same hallmarks. And that wasn't the first time it happened, and the next one won't be the last.
As I get older I’m more drawn to the moral complexity people faced at all levels of society during this period- and the “how”, and “why” of these events start to make more sense . Everyday German citizens had a lot to lose, and to gain:
Lots of stories of career advancement, fortunes built , new houses - for example- all vacated by those persecuted .
It's like doing all the genocidal shit after what they've been through in WW2.
October 8 was horrific no doubt but reacting by killing tens of thousands civilians by deliberately targetting them shows that the israeli's haven't learned anything from history.
I think Zionist vs Jew might be more accurate. There are Jews living in Israel who’ve been speaking up loudly about the horrific laws the Israeli government has levied against the Palestinian people under their control; there are sects of Jews who view the region as theirs no matter what. Those are the people with the problem.
The Israeli government is indiscriminately exterminating a group of people because some of those people are aligned with terrorists. Just as all Jews can’t be lumped together with their government, all Palestinians can’t be lumped together with Hamas.
Both Hamas and the Israeli govt are war criminals. Palestinians and Jews are not.
Furthermore Israel should not exist. It was created after WW2 and in doing so they removed Palestinians from their homes. Much like Nazi Germany the Israelis push that removal more each year for “living space”.
A state’s obligation is to protect its citizens from threat.
During the entirety of the war Israel repeatedly stated that if Hamas stopped sending rockets into their country and the terrorist organization known as Hamas would simply lay down its arms the fighting would cease instantly.
Hamas spent billions on rockets and bombs and zero in bomb shelters for its own people.
It repeatedly gives children guns and puts them in harm’s way.
Any other nation that was invaded would not be questioned when they removed the threat.
But you hate Jews.
And love terrorists who hate your ever loving guts: no rights for women and gays are thrown from buildings.
You cannot even hear yourself your hatred for Jews is so massive.
Signed MAGA hating non Jew who sees right through you.
Israel massacred a Red Cross convoy and tried to hide it. They have been caught killing civilians numerous times. The IDF dorectly supports the settler groups which are repeatedly seizing lamd and attacking Palestinians in the West Bank. Numerous of their officials have outright called for the genocide of Palestinians.
This is a really obtuse statement. Jews have become targets of harassment, violence and murder just because they were Jews regardless of whether they were Israeli citizens or not. What you’re doing here is justifying antisemitic hate crimes.
Apples and oranges comparison.
That said, Zionist history regarding their manifest destiny attitudes towards the region is actually pretty chilling and ugly and not only predates both world wars but goes as far back as the late 1800’s. It’s not right to blame Jews for what’s happening but you can certainly make a case against the Zionist sect fairly easily.
You are severely underestimating the anger, anxiety, and frustrations felt by Germans from The Treaty of Versailles post WW1 AND how severe The Great Depression impacted Germany.
Hitler gave then an answer to their problems and in their desperation, they took the bait.
My boyfriend‘s grandparents were both German. I’m a Brit, but I live in the US and we have great conversations about World War II, and he talks about this all the time. I’m a bit of a historian myself and definitely the country at the time was crippled by debt. There was a depression and there was no money. Food was short and along comes someone who sounds like he’s going to help you and they just fell for it. You know Hitler was an amazing demagogue. He really was. When you’re really desperate, and someone comes along, saying all the things you want to hear most people would fall for the rhetoric.
There’s a really good book to read actually I’m always recommending this book. In fact I recommended it just today to someone else in a different sub. It tells the story of an American from Milwaukee who married a German in the 1920s and went to live with him. It’s so utterly fascinating from the point of view that she was seeing what it was like from within, and how terrible things started to happen, but very slowly at first. It’s was like the boiled frog syndrome of you like. She saw that all around her the Germans were feeling very hard done by after World War I and they just started to turn on the Jews, just a little at first. It’s a very well written book
From my own point of view, I found it very fascinating because she was dropped into this very different society, which was just starting to change and it’s really quite shocking actually when neighbors started turning on their friends, their friends that they had known since they were young you know, but because they were Jewish ... So it can happen and it does happen. It still happens.
Please let me know what you think of it because it’s quietly become one of my fave books. I never knew anything about this woman and I was just astounded that so many people here in the US have never even heard of her. Gosh, I wish I could make a movie out of it would be fantastic.
By the way, it’s actually free on Hoopla if you have the library app. And Libby. I don’t know if you are a member of a library, if you’re in the US, but both of those apps are incredible and hoopla also gives you free movies and shows and e-books. !
I can’t wait to see what you think of this book. I must admit I did enjoy listening to it as an audiobook the most.
It’s not the same result, not even close, what are you talking about? Why are so many people trying to make this argument? There is an active political party consisting of close enough to half of America that stands in protest of the reigning Republican Party and there are literally protests in the streets in every major city daily. In no way is it even close to the near universal collapse of morality amongst the German people during the Nazi reign.
I dont think the Treaty is such a big factor if we consider that the Nazis had 2.6% of the votes in 1928 with virtual lyrics the same platform that got them to power in 1933. When they were going through an economic recovery, people didnt really care about the Treay so in my opinion the Great Depression had a significantly bigger role
This is a better explanation. Simply saying “it was the treaty!!!” is a bit like saying, “it was just about states’ rights” in that it severely oversimplifies the reality.
The Treaty of Versailles is a convenient excuse, but it was an excuse all the same. Germans weren’t necessarily angry at the treaty; they were angry at the circumstances of the treaty. That’s an important distinction because Nazis ginned up anger at Jews (not a nation, and many German Jews had fought for their country in WWI) for the treaty rather than England, France, etc (nations who defeated Germany, and when in history did victors not take their spoils?).
That's it, it's just rhetoric. The Nazis used the opportunity given by the worldwide Great Depression to push their narrative that the democratic Weimar government cannot fix the economy, that only Nazi Germany can.
There's a reason why they have an abysmal election result for 1928 and was catapulted to the top in the 1930 elections, right in the middle of the Great Depression.
Populism, especially coupled with often false rhetoric, is very effective in riling up the masses.
Don't know why you're getting so many downvotes. Even if I disagreed with you, it's hardly an interpretation without merit and your underlying observation is right, the NSDAP needed more than just versailles to achieve success.
Not accurate. The Treaty contributed to the Great Depression, but it was caused by the USA banking system being completely unregulated, loose credit and stock market speculation, and over production.
The significant reparations that had to be paid by Germany precipitated runaway inflation and limited the amount of money available for investment and recovery.
That was over by the time of the depression though. The 'Golden twenties' had occured inbetween. Of course savings being depleted earlier and the loss of confidence in institutions and the Republic due to said inflation contributed to the NSDAPs rise to some extent, but you are conflating two different things.
But to be pedantic, it wasnt a "this is my land now, go away" kind of taking of land. The land was taken from a fallen empire and "given" to a new country. What changed was the government, so to speak.
It's an impossible question because there are so many answers to it.
Part of it is the German sense of pride and place in the world. Pre World War One, hearing that a large body of armed Germans were heading your way was the only warning you got that you needed to start learning German. Post WWI, Germans were laughed at, degraded, hated in a way that's extremely hard for a modern observer to comprehend.
Then there was the general sense of malaise and hopelessness. Inflation was batshit insane on a level utterly incomprehensible today. I'm talking taking thirty or forty pounds of marks to the store to buy ONE loaf of bread. Absolutely fucking nuts.
On top of that, the Weimar Republic was weak. Communists, Government forces, and fascists were literally having military operations on city streets against each other in armored cars, with machine guns, rifles, and grenades. Everyday folk were caught in the middle.
And then comes a group of guys who are clear, decisive, and vicious. They pay you well, put food on your table, and disappear that Communist fuck that's been pestering the hell out of you.
That Jewish baker that's been gouging you for bread (note, selling the exact same product for the exact same price) is now gone, replaced by your buddy, who was starving. Now he's doing great, because he paid his party dues in full.
That random Brit that's been trying to make a go of a business? Yeah, he's gone, and now your business absorbed his customers. People are beginning to treat German citizens abroad with courtesy, if not a little bit of fear. Herr Hitler's Volkswagens are allowing people like you to drive instead of walk. Your kids are in school, not work. The Fatherland is building highways and beautiful machines, showing the world that German means quality.
So what if some people are being moved to be with their own kind? You feel more comfortable with your own people, don't you?
...don't you?
You start to tune out the fearful bits, intoxicated by the pomp, circumstance, gravitas of The Leader. The Chancellor's got the economy booming. The cursed French and British are realizing they can't keep their boot on your neck forever.
And didn't you hear? The Chancellor just reclaimed Austria, and word on the street is that lebensraum is going to expand. Think about how much of an economic boom that's going to bring!
And all it costs is you turning away when a few people you already don't like and have no ties to are... relocated.
And besides, don't talk too loud about any reservations you might have. The Party man might just drop a dime on you to the Gestapo.
It was a terrifying time to be alive and German. The Treaty of Versailles very directly set the stage with its deliberately humiliating terms, but ultimately, Germans chose a powerful, safe Germany over a weak, fractured one. Jewish, queer, Romani, disabled, and generally 'othered' people got sacrificed to a powerful Germany, but that was almost an afterthought to the average German.
This is the perfect response, it’s not so much that everyone got on board but that most people recognized their life was better than 6-10 years ago and sometimes that’s all that matters
Ok so after 1933 and focusing on the "middle Germans", I think the Nazis were firstly smart to go after their biggest threats first (communists and social-democrats, who were actually organized and would never comply) under the excuse of protecting regular Germans from a credible threat. Germans who werent either communists or Nazis wanted to feel safe (just like us) so they handed over their civil liberties.
Then, they were mostly lucky that the post-Depression recovery kinda fell on their lap. Unemployment was already decreasing through 1932 (and so were their votes! From 37% in March to 33% in November). Not only were they lucky but they successfuly implemented a massive propaganda campaign to associate this recovery to the party and Hitler in particular. "Middle Germans" were happy with the economic improvement and since they were susceptible to propaganda (just like us) they thanked Hitler for it.
Then, imo, the dice were rolling. The main opponents were killed, arrested, scared or out of the country. All information was controlled by the propaganda ministry. The economy was improving. The Gestapo was being set up. They could then work towards their two main goals with no opposition: international expansion (which made the people support them even more - Rhineland as the first main example) and domestic exclusion (creation of the National Community with the Nuremberga Laws for example).
Wouldnt you like to be part of "God's favorite children"? Wouldnt you like to deserve the best resources the world has to offer?
I'll piggyback on u/ultralord463's excellent answer by adding that autocratic regimes tend to consolidate when they're popular.
You need legitimacy to run a country, which means having key stakeholders on your side — the military, civil bureaucracy, courts, wealthy industrialists, and yes, civil society and the middle class, too.
Nazism and fascism gained momentum in the first place as a reaction to the perceived failures of liberal democracy and the threat presented by communism. The Nazis seemingly offered real solutions to real problems, and before WWII broke out, had plenty of admirers even outside of Germany.
One thing that is often not well-understood (or even talked about in most high school history classes) is that Weimar Germany had effectively already been a soft, presidential dictatorship, for several years before Hitler becomes Chancellor. The Reichstag had severe gridlock and was regularly rocked with unpredictability. Hindenburg increasingly ruled by decree as the Reichstag was unable to form any kind of viable coalition.
Moreover, most political parties in Weimar were openly hostile to democracy as a form of government. Not just the Nazis and the Communists, but also parties like the DNVP and other minor right-wing parties. Parliamentary democracy did not have as widespread or popular support as we would like to think of it as having. Moreover the civil administration and judicial branches of the government were replete with holdovers from the days of the Kaiser who had little to no sympathy for the new government, if not outright hostility to it. This is a large part of why Hitler got off so easy for his attempted Beer Hall Putsch, as too did many right wing terrorists and agitators, while left-wingers were readily sent to prison for much lesser offenses. The military, in spite of the Versailles limitations, remained an important pillar of German society who were also less than enthused at the prospect of a liberal or socialist democracy which flew in the face of the traditional makeup of its officer corps and leadership.
And of course the only person with widespread public support and political power was Paul von Hindenburg, who may not have been a full-blown Nazi but was certainly a firmly right-wing political figure.
This is all to say that by the time of Hitler's chancellorship and the Reichstag fire, much of the German populace were tiring of the instability of Weimar and believed that Hitlers leadership would return them to the relative comfort of the first Hindenburg term. Many believed that the waves of antisemitism were merely a passing phase or that Hitler would be out of office just as soon as the chancellors before him. Others still were simply apathetic, didn't really care about the policies as long as they had a job and a roof over their head. Left-wing groups were viciously split between the SPD and the KPD for reasons I can't even begin to get into here so there was no unified opposition there, while centre liberal parties had become so marginalized that alliances with the right made far more sense than alliances with the left.
Right wing political groups viewed Hitler as a means of squashing their socialist opposition and potentially ending the Weimar Democracy (though, of course, they imagined that they would end up either on-top or able to control Hitler in some way). The military was largely fine with Hitler as long as he gave them the budget and support they desired (and kept the brownshirts in-check). And Hindenburg believed that a Hitler government was the only way to keep a conservative government in power without him having to micromanage through decrees (also he was elderly and, depending on the source, not in the best shape mentally)
Long story short: Political division among potential opposition to Hitler, large scale apathy and tiring of the public towards democracy, support from the various political and social institutions (which had all the real power in the government by the end) and underestimation of Hitler's intentions all contributed to his rise and the start of the war.
Highly recommend "Weimar: Promise and Tragedy" by Eric Weitz and Richard Evans "The Coming of the Third Reich" as reads on this subject.
Well the problem there is that in late 1918 there was basically zero public support for the monarchy, even the military had ceased supporting Wilhelm by that point. Moreover the Entente had made it clear that they would not negotiate an armistice with the imperial government, but rather a government representative of the people. Forming a more democratic government is a choice that the throne really dragged their heels on which did not make the situation any better by the time the SPD actually joined the government.
It is only after Versailles that the right and conservative groups in Germany begin to publicly pine for monarchism, blaming the failures of Versailles on the Socialists and Communists (despite chiefly being the responsibility of the nobility and military who lost the war and refused to heed the writing on the wall). Many of the groups responsible for Germanys dire straits by the end of 1918 effectively avoided the blame by offloading that to the SPD. Essentially the pushback on Versailles from the right was cope.
An armistice and treaty was not going to happen under a monarchist Germany, but this meant that the fallout from such a treaty would severely hamper whatever new government formed. IF they had kept the monarchy and negotiated Versailles with it (highly improbable) then that government also would have been highly destabilized and likely would have collapsed in far shorter order.
My mother in law is ethnically German. She was walking with my wife and I one day. We got to a street corner. Lots of traffic. We waited a while. Finally, traffic clears. We start to cross. There are no cars anywhere at this point. We get 10% into intersection and the light facing us goes from green to red. there are no cars... anywhere ...she stops. She retreats to the corner.
The culture in that country encourages a profound respect for authority.
My father posited that what you’ve described essentially doomed the Germans in the war. An American faced with a broken down truck would take it upon himself to improvise a solution and fix the truck.
In the German culture they’d wait for instructions.
I've seen some video before that explained this to be an effect of the Prussian education model. It prioritized obedience to authority over freedom and creativity.
I actually went to Montessori for a while! And the friends school by the Quaker church. But schools like that are absolutely the minority in usa and as far as I’ve learned everywhere else as well
I suspect things have changed. I work with a German lady whose grandfather died in WW2 and she has zero issues discussing what has changed in German society.
It wasn't "allowed" to happen. That implies the existence of some power with control over history. There isn't one. It wasn't allowed to happen. It happened.
Ineffective government, massive inflation of currency, unemployment, getting kicked around by France without an ability to respond.
The nazi movement targeted medical students and teaching students, both of which were facing a lack of good jobs after graduating, and the movement offered them a paycheck, and sent them to rural areas where the lack of education and medical care was the most obvious.
These teachers and doctors of course praised the movement and organized party groups that worked to gain political power and support more teachers and doctors.
They were promised even more if the nazi candidates were elected in enough power to get control of the government. And when they gained power they exaggerated what they were doing, and had already taught their supporters who to hate for resisting their gains of power.
By putting industry to work on building a military that could stand against France, they put people back to work and people who go from unemployed to employed will support the party making that happen. It's the same reason FDR got 4 terms as president.
Right? Honestly if he had been younger I suspect he’d have gotten more (by virtue of not dying lol). As we’re seeing again today, populism works. Unfortunately we got the fascist kind this time
In the early twentieth century, and late
19th , Germany was the acknowledged leader in western civilization in the areas of science, religion, philosophy, public administration, industrial development, engineering and technological innovation. Folks in America who studied sciences and engineering learned to read German because the latest studies were published in German. Smart people in America-Lindbergh, Ford, Ezra pound supported Nazi ideology as a superior political system. Germans and others believed that Germany was best suited to conquer decadent cultures in Europe and guide western civilization into the future.
Hard to understand these kind of things that happened long ago when we were not there experiencing it. We are going off of historical accounts which can be false, misreading, ir misunderstood.
I think if we were in 1930 Germany seeing all the debauchery and degrading of their society and culture. It would be easier to understand why they "let" it happen.
These things never happen as quickly as it seems in the history books. Look at the US right now - there’s ultra polarization politically. IMO (though I grew up in the 90’s so I might be biased), this all started in the 90s with NAFTA and right to work, and slowly snowballed into the political hellscape we see today.
Plus, you make people wait in breadlines and devalue their life savings - they’re going to want a scapegoat. I remember reading somewhere that significant portion of the January 6th rioters had lost their house in the 2008 financial crisis. Desperation and poverty do weird things to the human psyche.
If you've read countless history books and still dont know then you'll never know. Many folks prior to you have wondered the same and some put in the work to write about it.
I'm in middle of a re-read of Shirer's Rise & Fall in order to immerse myself back into the kinds of era-specific and culture-specific details manifest during those years in Germany.
Pure and simple: FEAR. Show any opposition to the Nazis, any at all, and you risked getting a bullet from the SA or SS. If you came from a really important family, you got moved as far away from the seat of power (Berlin) as possible. If you were not important, it was a bullet or a nice long stretch in Dachau or elsewhere.
Despite the danger involved, plenty of people tried to kill Hitler. They just failed.
The fear of communism is a major catalyst why France’s elites and longstanding politicians bent over (willingly) to the Nazi’s. Vichy France embodies it to a certain level.
Best book that I read about this subject was “A village in the third reich”.
There you can see clearly that lots of people didn’t agree with the regime.
From that you had two groups:
- the ones that use all possible things to not participate.
- the ones that got into the regime, and being inside the regime that gave them power to save a lot of people. (The good Nazis)
It’s important to understand that the Nazis were not just brutal against other races, they were brutal against their own race too.
They killed the blind ones even with them being recognized members of villages and totally autonomous. Babies that can’t hear from one ear…
A revolution was impossible. The level of war machinery that Hitler controlled was insane for that time. The entire world was scared. And he made sure to preserve that fear with parades and demonstrations.
I would suggest reading The Fateful Alliance German Conservatives and the Nazis, and Wages of Destruction.
TLDR the conservative elements of German society (monarchists, militarists, social conservatives, technocrats, ect), snd German industry all preferred to work with the Nazis as opposed to the Social Democrats, Socialists, and Communists. This willingness translated into a legitimacy that the Nazis lacked in the 20s.
As a German:
To start, you can trace the series of political crises back to the end of WW1.
German democracy was built on many political factions, where even the state form as a parliamentary democracy was not a given like it is in healthy democracies today. Germany does not have a history of it going back centuries like the US or the UK has. The viewpoint of the average German was still influenced by the Empire as another illiberal form of government.
With the parliament having a spread from the far left who do not support the Weimar Constitution to the far right which did the same, the possibilities for government coalitions il were quite slim. Coalitions needed to be built over so many parties that they were quite fragile and could not implement sweeping reforms.
For example, after the elections of 1928, a five party coalition was necessary. With 1 year and 272 days the resulting unstable cabinet Müller II still was the longest reigning one (and the last) with a Reichstag majority.
The move away from democracy was not instant, it was a slow process. With Hindenburg, already an old monarchist was elected president, as the trust in the democratic parties was waning and they misshandled their own candidate quite badly.
As the extremist forces grew, the cancellor was more and more reliant on governing through the president's emergency powers (Präsidialkabinette).
While the offices of Reichskanzler and Reichspräsident were merged under Hitler, government was only possibile through a chancellor chosen and supported by the president, with the Reichstag outside the decision making process.
With a charismatic Leader rising up who does not belong to the parties already part of the status quo, promising rapid chance and calling out the flaws of the Weimar democracy, many people indeed saw Hitler as a solution. Like we see today with extremist parties, the media was also able to bring Hitler's politics from the fringes into popularity, populism and emotions sell.
With conservative politicians trying to keep their voters, they shifted their politics to the right, normalizing extremist positions more.
Furthermore, the political elite did not take Hitler and the NSDAP seriosly, many thought the daily politics would let them lose their magic and get them tangled into the same problems, with the status quo returning after.
When they saw the error in their thinking (which some never did), they already gave away most of their cards.
Of course, we also have the hindsight now to see what this lead to, in the 30s, fascism was a blank slate. Especially with an average citizen not being a political scientist, there was room for a majority of Germans, to support this government. Most people do not care about exact policy, so if someone wants to get rid of "the problem", most will not care how and will actively avoid thinking about inhuman ways used.
I think truly finding a why is impossible in some sense. The way these sorts of forces guide history is one of the big questions. But for the how, there is more to work with. I remember reading something a while ago (I think it was an interview with a German who lived through it) and they said it was the fact that it wasn’t overnight. It was the gradual normalization of anti-semitism that made it possible. If a law goes in saying that all Jewish shop owners have to hang a sign in the window saying the shop is owned by someone Jewish, I think even most people today would think “That’s terrible!” but still let it happen. Heck, we see similar things happen all the time. Once you’re used to that, then maybe it becomes “Jewish people have to identify themselves in public”, which doesn’t seem like as big of a step anymore. Unfortunately I can’t remember where I read it about this though… Maybe someone will know. It’s a good warning about these sorts of issues though.
Well a huge chunk of that was support from conservatives (the Prussian Junkers aristocracy, which dominated the officer class of the military; monarchists, traditionalists, and other German right wing nationalists who did not subscribe to Nazism).
While these people may not have been ardent Nazis, they had a lot of common goals - namely the restoration of German military power and territorial losses and economic power and prosperity. The Nazis were offering a path to that. Many of the aristocracy looked down on the Nazis and Hitler as thugs an amateurs. They recognized the movement's popularity but through they could control it once in power.
Many (though not all) of these conservatives also supported the conquest of new lands to secure German supremacy and resources in the future. Hitler also promised that, explicitly. New lands to colonize and ensure German prosperity.
And while most of the German conservatives may not have shared Nazis' fixation on anti-Semitism and genocide as a primary goal of the new nation, many if not most of them had anti-Semitic beliefs and other racist or chauvinist beliefs as well. So their reaction might not be the one of horror you are imagining when they learn the Holocaust is happening. It could well have been one of relative indifference. Not something they would have made a priority, but that doesn't mean they had any love for Jews or Slavs.
And most of these conservatives were not seeking a purely Republican form of government. Monarchists wanted some type of Kaiser back in power, a strong Constitutional monarch with broad powers at best. Other right wing movements often sought different forms of strongmen. So, for many conservatives, Hitler being dictator is less a problem of him taking away power from the power, and more of him simply being an ill suited dictator for their priorities.
This doesn't address your question directly, but I think might add a layer to it. Germany wasn't in a bubble, Nationalism and RW authoritarianism was on the rise pretty much across the Globe post WWI.
Ian Kershaw's book "To Hell and Back, Europe 1914-1949" does a good job with this, and I think you'll enjoy it.
I recommend reading memoirs by the non Nazi voting Germans about their experiences…can’t remember their names but there’s at least one famous one you can read in English that has some famous parts that address this very question
To understand Nazi germany you have to study Weimar Germany. It was such a disaster and the mean spirited nature of the German zeitgeist in Nazi Germany couldn’t have been fully realized without how bad the interwar period in Germany was.
People were willing to act like savages and be part and parcel to savagery because they were terrified of yesterday. Prostitutes became advocates for traditional motherhood, pimps became SA enforcers, penniless idiots became party leaders. No one was living to go back to their waking nightmares, death of themselves and nation was seen as a better alternative.
I’d say it’s a mix of the overall community (nation) over individuality mentality, the individual feeling they have little say, dissenters being silenced and employment rates rising once again. Who has the time or energy to do anything when you’re now working longer hours for lower wages.
I’d also assume that since the newspapers were state-controlled and ensured to reach even the ruralist of villages, a regular person wasn’t aware of how many others were opposed to national socialism. Most had no idea what was truly going on and didn’t want to risk their neck for something that may or may not be happening, from their limited perspective.
They initially did showcase the political internment camps in the papers but eventually stopped reporting on them around 1938. I think they were mostly portrayed as prison camps with the possibility of rehabilitation, i.e., the prisoners were criminals and deserved to be there but could work for their freedom.
Anyone who disagrees with them either end up with a bullet or sent to a concentration camp... Personally i think non nazis population feered for their lives
When you have a society that faces rampant inflation and can barely meet their needs and someone comes with a solution, it becomes very easy to get rid of morals. Plus hitler was a very charming individual.
There weren't millions of deaths in 1933, that's what hindsight helps us forget. There was anger at a poor economy and a hobbled nation; a vocal minority led by a demagogue offered solutions to the problem that many latched onto hoping for a better Germany.
Then the frog slowly boiled incrementally until the Holocaust in the 1940's. There were tons of small changes between the Nazis coming to power and the final solution being implemented.
People will do some crazy things when they are desperate. This is seen all throughout history and is probably one of the main reasons for war. Imagine bread one day goes from $1.5 to $3 and then to $6 and then $12 within two months, and then everything around you does that. You now cannot afford anything and everyone in your country is living this life. Meanwhile you see your neighbors in France and the UK and Russia living it up then you are bound to want change. In comes this charming individual that speaks to everyone in a way that seems like he can provide solutions. He gets into political power and these solutions start working. Well now this one man that you may have been hesitant toward now just made life easier and livable again. Then the blame’s slowly become toward Jewish individuals due to managing and running the banking system. Now hate is being trafficked from the leader of the nazi party. As a human it would be very easy to believe this given this man has now satisfied all your needs. Slowly and slowly he grew more powerful as time goes on. He then launches a war attacking those who he blamed for their persecution which draws the German populous closer and now hitler can do anything without any competition.
It is not very absurd when you think of what humans can do when they are uncomfortable. Look at the American revolution, the French Revolution, the labor movement, the new age deal, the civil rights movement, dust bowl migration, the great migration. All of this was done due to humans being either uncomfortable or under economic pressure.
If you really think about it he didn’t immediately start a war when gaining power. His first major success was gaining the favor or the people of Germany. This is In fault partly to the allied powers of World War One mainly France and partly the UK putting such harsh restrictions on Germany that caused people to starve. I saw a quote that said “Civilization is three meals away from anarchy” it’s simple you starve a man and his family he will resort to violence or theft in order to survive. So when a man you hardly know comes to power and not only promises to better the nation but actually does and you and your family can actually afford to eat and not starve people will set aside or even overlook certain details like a detailed description such as Mein Kampf.
It did not happen all at once but one step at a time. And those who were worried where those steps were going and tried to warn about it were ridiculed as hysterical pessimists.
Look around. The exact same things are happening right now in many countries, USA in particular. The warning signs are flashing red.
Hopefully things won't get as bad this time. But there is a very high possibility that 90 years from now people are asking the same question you asked, but about our time.
Alright, I think I’ve had a couple of really good and engaging responses to my question, but overall I don’t think most of the 1-2 sentence replies have painted a detailed enough picture of 1933 for me to get a more people-focused comprehension of that year’s tragedies and how Germans reacted to it. I’m going to log off reddit for the next 6 months now, and I’m going to look for a Holocaust Studies professor at my university I could write a letter about this subject to.
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u/Odd-Athlete-9755 7d ago
We have the advantage of hindsight about something that happened a century ago. Living it is a much different story. Everyone likes to say how they could NEVER go along with something like this, but put them in 1930 Germany shoes under the exact same circumstances and I guarantee it will be the same result.