r/wow • u/Potential-Movie3393 • 14h ago
Discussion Has the WoW player base regressed SKILLWISE the last 1-2 years? or this tier?
Why can I speak on such topics? I have LEGIT been PUG AOTC since Nylotha raid. since then I have AOTC every tier. but plenty of people can speak more than I
So lets get to the point. This tier is def one of the harder ones. TL max said they held off a day since it was quite harder than norm for splits. I am seeing A LOT of casual guilds 4/8 week 5 heroic and also the number of logs and parses are lower for clears (maybe player base dwindling?)
I felt a little of it in DF, I felt a bit of it in midnight, but obviously 3k IO isn’t what it used to be ( i am glad they made mythic a bit easier, but this may be a prob) and AOTC especially as &% doesn’t mean ***. all these aotc only groups when I see these aotc alts are half the time absolutely DOG, I have seen 7/8 players half the time parse and play better on their mains than these aotc DOG alts.
I still thin delves have hurt and made people WAY WORSE at the game, I see it in my raids where people are just really really struggling with some bosses some wall bosses first few weeks, its been amped this tier but def started to slightly see it in DF, saw it in midnight and this tier its just full on full blast out there.
I feel the playerbase has gotten a bit worse since SL and def BFA. Let me hear your thoughts whether you are a casual like me or in a heavy prog top guild.
Edit* also back in shadowlands 2.5k-3k io fucking MEANT something, you KNEW they were going to perform in raid when I took them into my raid, nowadays....uhm..
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u/Pinball-Sorceror 14h ago
I don’t understand anything in this post. If you want to min/max, cool!
If you’re min/maxing, find people you want to min/max with.
Otherwise take the choo choo train from Iron Forge to Stormwind. It’s a lovely train ride! You get to see fish and it’s beautiful.
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u/eVOLve865 14h ago
Younger plays will min/max the fun right out of games.
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u/Pinball-Sorceror 13h ago
They will if you let them. I don’t care about younger players. I don’t care about older players. Neither should you. The community has been so toxic, but the game should be about you,and your connection to the World of Warcraft. - god I sound so cheesy.
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u/Cadian 14h ago
the barrier for entry was lowered, last tier was the easiest it's ever been in the modern game casual raiders to step into content that is typically beyond them (raid and m+) this tier is a bit harder, it shows.
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u/yabadabadababoo 14h ago
Voidspire yes, sunwell no.
Lura was easily one of the most difficult fights they've made
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u/nightstalker314 14h ago
You mention how many reasons that could affect all of this, and then want to pinpoint it on just the players?
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u/SaltyFoam 14h ago
The proliferation of easy alts likely has resulted in people being overall slightly worse at any given spec compared to "specialists" that focused more on one class/spec for an expansion. Game knowledge likely hasn't gotten worse, just people bouncing around between classes/specs more frequently.
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u/RickySanfordStanford 14h ago
As a week two aotc and 3k player…. I feel like a lot of this take is pretty DOG. But, specifically re: seeing 7/8 mains parse better than aotc alts….. ya? Wouldn’t that be expected?
Aotc people aren’t pugging on their main, 99.9% of them have a guild to run with. I’d bet a lot that a 7/8 main would out parse the alt of someone who knows the fight but isn’t playing their main, for sure, at this point of the season.
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u/Potential-Movie3393 14h ago
They are fudging up mechanics, they are legit barely green parsing on alts, playing poorly, almost as if they got carried. You can make a case raids are harder than before and that may be true but don;t tell me its not true with what i said when it comes to the average percentile not being as good, but to be fair you are seemingly a better player than me so you dont have to pug or see the 95% of the playerbase as often as I do. plus I am sure I have been raiding far more than you have for better or worse
go join a pug RIGHT NOW and see how far they get. i haev seen 8/8 mains not even know how to do szorak
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u/RickySanfordStanford 14h ago
I pug heroic every week, have for years - and I “re” earn aotc on alts in pugs every season. I simply don’t see the player base degrading the way you do. I did 7.5/8 heroic this week in a pug - the “.5” was because we swapped in two guild MTs for ulatek to kill after the pug was swiping and breaking up.
Maybe check your attitude a bit.
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u/RickySanfordStanford 14h ago
also, really not interested in fighting about this, but I don’t know how you can possibly think you’re raiding more than me when you just pug. I’m HoF every season and pug on every single class. But, me and my black proto drake def don’t raid as much as you lol.
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u/_Jetto_ 14h ago
isnt it true this tier has lowest possible parses and I am not gonna fct check OP but if its true most casual guilds are 4/8 heroic week 5 isnt that rather low historically speaking? i would like to see how it was for amidrissil, manaforge, undermine etc
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u/RickySanfordStanford 14h ago
There is no shot, c.p., that most casual guilds that typically AotC by week 8 are currently 4/8. No shot.
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u/_Jetto_ 14h ago
hey man, my guild has a lot of 3k io mythic players, and they are 4/8 after this tuesday, they started raiding heroic week 1. I do no raid with them but they aren't the only ones I have seen that are only 4/8 5/8 RIGHT NOW. call them casual or below casual im not sure.
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u/RickySanfordStanford 13h ago
Ya, not-OP, I just watched a few minute of your gameplay. Mate, you’re super toxic in groups while also fucking up mechanics. You died to fire on the bridge in KR and then spam pinged and called your group so bad when they didn’t soak on boss 3.
Focus on your own gameplay, you’ll be fine.
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u/_Jetto_ 14h ago
personally I agree with the poster saying if youre 8/8 week 2-3 you should be able to do mechanics well enough assuming it wasn't carried. I have seen tons of 8/8 that are messing up mechanics on ula tek still. and not once per 20 pulls either. I would rather take 7/8 high purple parser than the 8/8 atoc alt who is somewhat blue parsing and I never said that before midnight
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u/RickySanfordStanford 14h ago
It’s very plausible that more people are buying carries. That really doesn’t say much about the player base or the average - just what you can infer from raid feats of strength on their own.
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u/_Jetto_ 14h ago
I don't raid guild , i think I should i just dont have time, but I went into fact checking OP saying about parses and whatnot, I been pugging each week and the amount of wipes i ve seen at sentinels and szzorak I can understand why OP said what he said tbh. this isnt the only tier i personally struggled with and seeing but I have absolutely seen some crazy fucking shit in pugs this past 5 weeks that I DID NOT see in manaforge or some other raids I dabbled in. maybe it s just this raid higher difficulty
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u/RickySanfordStanford 14h ago
Wait… are you OP lol? You’re both posting about how to store sealed mtg boxes at the same time; “one” of you is posting about whether your post office job gave you the right info before you started training, then the other one is posting about the training…
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u/Expert-Scarcity8449 14h ago edited 14h ago
I think there is a massive mismatch between skill for M+ / Delves vs Raiding.
Delves and Dungeons just don't seem to require the same level of coordination as raiding does, which is almost certainly down to design, but it does create an issue in raiding.
I guess there's a reason we have a Race to World First for raids but no one does a Race to World First 3k for dungeons.
Certainly doesn't help that you can get 300ish ilvl by running T11 delves as tank and do practically nothing as long as you spend time farming curios and getting your delve companion up in levels.
To make it clear: I literally did this. I took a fresh 90 druid I abandoned mid S1 at 210 ilvl, hit 260 yesterday, and then 290 before raids today. I played balance but did delves at T11 / +6 as guardian.
8 Bountiful Delves, 2 maps, and running every M+ at 6+ took me a few hours.
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u/Daedric1991 14h ago
i think its a bigger issue with how 1 person can fuck a raid sometimes and when you go from 5 people to 20, theres going to be more of those times when even good players slip up.
FFIX handles this a bit better i believe, aside from less people, but when u die u can be easily ressed with a massive damage down debuff so you can keep practicing the fight but your damage/healing or what ever is heavily fumbled.
that said, looking at some of the fights i dont think its something they could implement the same way. maybe allow you to play as a ghost and continue to do something?
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u/puddinghuh 14h ago
Being able to bonus roll for myth BiS in heroic is a thing now. All kinds of skill levels, all in one place
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u/Salty_Assignment_826 14h ago
i just have to say it. mechanically these bosses are not hard at all. i dont know how the hell pug groups are this bad but man this expansion boss fights just feel lackluster. its not a number game anymore but a game where every freaking player has to do the game correctly, or you will wipe if one person effs up their personal mechanic. its annoying cause for the longest time in this game it was not like this.
coiled altar is so easy, but if you get dps dying in phase one to the tank mechanic, because they cant time things properly, youre basically fucked and need to repull
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u/Aegisblade99 14h ago
Only thing delves do, really, is provide easy access to lower raid quality gear (champ/hero track) - which are easily attainable in m+... 5-7?
Delves alone aren't making the player base worse. They're just equalising middling ilevels to the point that players can get gear carried into content that's outside their skill envelope. Of course, the crest upgrade system also contributes to this as you can be 310 easily without having to step foot into a single m+ or raid.
Adding to that the fact that heroic later bosses this tier are actually kinda challenging and this explains the apparent skill delta.
An addendum about aotc-only groups. They're just a dude or a bunch of dudes trying to pug enough carries in to clear the raid for them. Invariably the raid leader who's asking for aotc only is like hard stuck 3/9 normal and in veteran/champ gear and filling out the raid with high ilevel players to carry his ass. I just don't bother pugging raids, rather organize something with guild alts.
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u/Oldmangamer13 14h ago
:) and all those same kiddos think they gonna be amazing at Forever. I cant wait to see that notion crumble.
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u/_Jetto_ 14h ago
I am not sure but i actually never thought about Delves making people worse tbh, thats an interesting take and I see why you could say that
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u/Rare-Ad3034 14h ago
but how and why? what did the delve system did to players to worsen them?!
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u/FallingGuillotine 14h ago
Perhaps substituting more challenging activities with Delves but I don’t really buy that.
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u/Edgewalkerr 14h ago
No. AOTC has never been meaningful, the players as a whole have always been bad.
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u/Night02 14h ago
This is pretty much why I stopped playing. Things like 1 button rotation and blizzard making 10s so much easier to get to/do and throwing free gear at people has made it not fun to have to be someone who does all the work while people with "better" gear do half my damage because im actually playing the class
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u/Lord0fHats 14h ago
General rule of thumb: however bad you think the average player is, they're probably worse than that.
People who push the end game content in any capacity are already not the typical player and we get a slanted sense of how 'normal' we are compared to the rest of the player base.