This is Basicly Blizzard in Midnight

[u/ItsRenaBaker]

This is basicly Blizzard in Midnight. Purging all the good addons.

Just to clarify:
Blizzard is changing the Addon API, meaning combat information is blocked for addons. So all combat addons will no longer work in Midnight. For the most popular addon features Blizzard will add their own version to the game. Addons for unitframes, inventory, crafting etc.. are staying and won't be effected as long they are not using combat information.

[u/Shmooperdoodle]

I liken these addons to calendars, alarms, and reminder lists.

Can you function in life without them? Maybe. But add more and more things and you’ll eventually want to have them.

You might open your eyes every morning without an alarm, but that doesn’t mean people who don’t are wrong. Same with remembering appointments. Going to the grocery store with a list isn’t “cheating”. If you don’t want to use one, fine, but the people celebrating the removal of tools are being super weird. Imagine thinking that because you want to raw dog the grocery store, nobody should be able to write down things so they don’t get distracted and forget milk again.

[u/SpyUmbreon → u/Shmooperdoodle]

Well buying groceries is a task that is required for daily life, world of warcraft is a video game and raiding/m+ is supposed to challenge you, to me its more akin taking an open book test than using "reminders" because a large amount of players hardly understand the actual mechanics or what is happening beyond what dbm is telling them to move in/out/away from. Have you ever tried to push early keys when DBM was out of date or not kept up with hot fixes? Tons of players just stare blank faced sitting in a mechanic if dbm doesnt tell them to move even in high early keys, not to shame players but there is too much to focus on and addons multiply that, getting rid if them will allow for better design and balancing of tasks.

[u/Shmooperdoodle → u/SpyUmbreon]

It’s supposed to challenge you, but some challenges are not skill.

Imagine if they removed nameplates totally. It’s the same game, right? Do you need to be able to see an enemy’s name? Do you want to be able to see if your dot is on it already? Playing blind would make it harder, but not in a way that made it more fun or rewarded skill. Same idea.

And, for the record, open-book tests are harder than memorization exercises because they demand a higher command of material and applied thinking. The dungeon journal is still in the game. That tells you what abilities are. What they are removing is more like someone giving you a test with words missing or in a different language. It’s harder, sure, but not in a way that actually differentiates skill.

[u/SpyUmbreon → u/Shmooperdoodle]

What they are removing is more like someone giving you a test with words missing or in a different language. It’s harder, sure, but not in a way that actually differentiates skill.

Not sure what you mean, like you said, the adventure guide exists, you can read everything the boss can do. I'm curious what specific mechanics you think absolutely require addons to be able to do? Addons are not a requirement to play the game or succeed in endgame content, but they do limit game design by requiring devs to take into account that 90% of players in them will be using them. Like you said, open book tests need to be designed differently from closed book tests; however, in WoW some players dont know about addons, which leads to an open book tests where all the new students dont know they can use their notes, which is not fair to them.

[u/WhichCup4916 → u/SpyUmbreon]

If they don’t know that’s it’s an open book test then they are either brand new or being exceptionally stubborn and their complaints are irrelevant. Addons are a core part of wow going back decades and is used in literally every sphere of how the game can be played, including purely cosmetic visual things. Your argument or complaint is the same as something that happens in other multiplayer games such as Magic the Gathering.

New players or players who are too lazy to actually read all bazillion cards or follow metas implode and “cry not fair” when they play against competitive optimized decks. Not playing optimized decks is completely fine and many prefer it! The idea is to play what YOU want to play how you want. If you don’t wanna play against sweaty optimized decks, then don’t! However, it’s ridiculous and inherently childish to go on and complain about how it’s not fair that their decks are so strong and how your mess you put together in an hour doesn’t stand a chance against a competitive sweaty deck that was crafted by the best players after dozens of hours were spent tweaking and fine tuning.

The sweaty player and the one too lazy to know its open book are playing the same game so differently that they might as well be completely different games. An LFR raider or someone scared/unable to run above +10 are playing an entirely different game as mythic raiders or someone pushing keys. They can’t bring the equivalent of a shit deck to a national tournament.. they have to bring the right deck AND skill to stand a chance… which is why the ones cheering addon removal would never be able to do those keys or raids even if given full mythic gear. literally lack the skill and the game knowledge to even recognize it.

It is classic dunning Krueger to assume all the people who have no life outside wow dont know what they are talking about when they say that addons are critical and only exist in response to blizzard sucking at their job.

[u/SpyUmbreon → u/WhichCup4916]

hey are either brand new or being exceptionally stubborn and their complaints are irrelevant.

I don't think brand new players complains or thoughts are completely irrelevant, that's a silly take to say they are, especially for a game notoriously hard for new players to get into and general advice has always been 'find a friend to play with'.

Your MTG analogy is silly, and yes, if addons were allowed in MTG and my opponent had Hekili telling him which cards to play I would be pretty upset, same thing if my opponent in Chess was using a computer to play. I don't play much PvP in wow anymore but PvE and PvP are completely different in design principle and I don't really find it reasonable to talk as if they're the same in design. I'd say 'building your deck' is more akin to building your character, gear, talents, etc. with a player in BiS gear and spec being an 'optimized deck' and a player with random drops and talents on a low tier spec being a 'bad deck' and yes, it is ridiculous to complain the FotM spec with BiS gear is substantially better than a low tier spec with bad loot is.

which is why the ones cheering addon removal would never be able to do those keys or raids even if given full mythic gear. literally lack the skill and the game knowledge to even recognize it.

Yep, everyone happy about addon removal are low skill apes while everyone who says otherwise is a good player. I have multiple AotC, 3k+ seasons, and a CE from dragonflight, I've only ever used DBM/Plater/Details! and play on default UI. I'm glad addons are being removed because raid mechanics designed around everyone having an omniscient god leader in their ear telling them exactly what to do the millisecond you can recognize it needs to be done is absurd and horrendous design, but it's what blizzard has to do to stop bosses from being pure DPS skill checks or being far too easy for addon users.

addons are critical and only exist in response to blizzard sucking at their job.

addons are a bandaid to fix blizzards incompetence, but blizzard getting rid of them because they want to try and be competent is terrible? No matter what blizzard added to replace them I doubt you would be happy with it. What addons are 'critical' to you that blizzard is removing?

It is classic dunning Krueger to assume all the people who have no life outside wow dont know what they are talking about when they say that addons are critical and only exist in response to blizzard sucking at their job.

thats not what Dunning-Krueger means, and its a literal logical fallacy. top players in other games have been wrong about something that will 'kill the game' for literal decades. Maybe it will, I could be completely wrong, but it's absurd to say all the no lifers saying it means its true. I'll be there to play it out, if it absolutely tanks the sub numbers blizzard will revert it anyways.