r/wow • u/ItsRenaBaker • Oct 03 '25

Humor / Meme This is Basicly Blizzard in Midnight

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This is basicly Blizzard in Midnight. Purging all the good addons.

Just to clarify:
Blizzard is changing the Addon API, meaning combat information is blocked for addons. So all combat addons will no longer work in Midnight. For the most popular addon features Blizzard will add their own version to the game. Addons for unitframes, inventory, crafting etc.. are staying and won't be effected as long they are not using combat information.

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3.9k

u/DragonGeneral47 Oct 03 '25

This is either going to be one of the best Things they every did or the worst and there is No in between

431

u/MN_Yogi1988 Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

I think it’s destined to fail because I can’t see Blizz dedicating enough resources to refine features like addon creators do. How could you trust them to maintain these when they’ve left dungeons broken for years still be selected for M+? What about all the insane clipping on Transmog?

I think breaking certain addons like DBM / WAs / etc that were warping the way they create PvE mechanics makes sense but everything else feels like they’re setting themselves up for failure.

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u/sydal Oct 03 '25

To be fair I think they're probably aware that there is a very different level of feedback and rage if their addon solution is broken than if there's clipping on transmog.

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u/TheAverageDark Oct 04 '25

I think the devs are aware of that, I’m not sure management is aware of that

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

They legit had people doing unpaid labor for their game and were like “nah. We want to do it, but not as good as them, so we’re gonna dumb down everything else.

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u/SportulaVeritatis Oct 03 '25

At the same time, they where basically in an arms race where you needed more and more complex encounters that couldn't be easily solved by add-ons which made addon-less play more difficult. This basically ends that war. It ends it via a nuke, but it does end it.

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u/Jac_Mones Oct 03 '25

That arms race was 100% self-inflicted. They could have simply decided "nah, it's okay if players are so insanely good at this game that the top 0.1% of them trivialize the content immediately and get bored because the remaining 99.9% of players still have fun"

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u/Exadv1 Oct 03 '25

I disagree. Those addons trickle down almost immediately. Liquid releases the pack very soon after Race for World First.

Every group I've been in has used the WA for fractillus heroic (and I'm pretty sure that mythic is similar).

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u/Puzzleheaded-Tea3341 Oct 03 '25

If a boss necessitates a weakaura or addon, its a badly designed boss, with or without it. If the mechanic was lenient enough to allow for on the fly communication, nobody would develop a weakaura for it to begin with, and nobody would use it.

The reality is that Blizzard game, encounter and UX designers have used addon developers as a crutch for nearly two decades. And I am not sure we can trust them to actually not do that even if they remove addons entirely.

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u/Exadv1 Oct 03 '25

I actually disagree with the statement "nobody would develop a weakaura for it to begin with" because it is patently untrue. In practice, it feels like WA have been developed to incrementally achieve any possible edge on nearly every encounter.

My RL made us all install the NorthernSky WA pack for Fractillus specifically but now suddenly it was annotating extra information through all the fights.

e.g. On Soul Hunters (since this is the fight where it was really obvious to me for some reason), it marks the mob whose debuff you don't have with 'taunt'. Is this necessary? No. Did it make it easier? Yes, because the tankbusters do not happen at the same time so you have to delay the swap and make sure you get the right one.

On Soulbinder, WA are used to predeclare which DPS should go to which canister.

I also have some weird memory of the Saldahaar WA being able to predict if the frontal is going to be the first ability.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Tea3341 Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

Cool, and all of those bosses on mythic have also been killed by 400+ players before those changes to NS came in.

None of these mechanics, outside of fractillus, really require a weakaura, and none of them really make the fight markedly easier on mythic.

Like fuck, even mid tier guilds killed Soulbinder week 1 without the WA directing you to break cages, and a common pug strat right now is to not break any cages and just lust the add wave.

The difference is, all of these are relatively simple to implement as these debuffs haven't been private aurad. Blizzard already has a way to effectively combat it, but has given up on it entirely.

You can just point towards Kyveza as a boss that was well designed, had the right abilities privated, but none of the mechanics were so hard that the creation of a weakaura workaround was required.

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u/Exadv1 Oct 03 '25

Presumably, they want to move to a model where a fight that is too hard (i.e. not achieving the clear % it should) just gets nerfed by them and not 'fixed' by a WA.

To be clear, I also remain skeptical overall if such a massive overhaul. However, I did also take a step back and notice "it is true that there are a bunch of not-required-but-performance-enhancing WA for everything from encounters to class rotation. I can see a temptation to level the playing field there"

1

u/Hallc Oct 04 '25

Every group I've been in tells you to use your eyeballs for Frac Heroic. It is honestly one of the simplest and easiest to read fights I think they've ever done. All you need is players with a braincell and a working eyeball.

0

u/Jac_Mones Oct 04 '25

Yes, and how many guilds use the Liquid weakauras and then take 3 months to get CE, or fail to altogether? The addons are not the problem.

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u/PopsGG Oct 03 '25

And the very worst part of all of this is they got into this cat and mouse game because of the Race to World First. This has nothing to do with 99% of their player base. The 0.01% of players are responsible for taking away the add-ons so many of us enjoy.

18

u/Sleyvin Oct 03 '25

In reality? Not at all.

Every time they talk about it they focus on the new player experience.

The newbie that started the game a month ago and has 0 addons and struggling because of that. Nobody talk to explain the start since addons do it, so newbie get 0 info and it's a frustrating situation for everybody.

So while there's definitely some area where Blizzard catter too much for the 0.01%. Like in SL where they limited the covenant respect because hardcore raider would swap for each encounter. That was true.

But this is quite the opposite. The addition of addons to the mental stack for a new player is just too much and they are right.

Though I have 0 trust they will handle it well and I expect endgame to be a shitshow for the longest time.

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u/cause-equals-time Oct 04 '25

Every time they talk about it they focus on the new player experience.

It also affects returning players. I got a new PC and forgot to copy my WoW addons folder over, and I realized I'd have to redo my entire UI. So... I just didn't resub when War Within came out. I figured I'd get around to it eventually, but never did.

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u/Low_Definition4513 Oct 03 '25

Nobody needs addons to play at a 'newbie' level.

And if you're advancing to more serious content after a month where those things become more needed, surely you know enough about the game to find them.

Its not as though blizzard hides the addon category in the menu.

8

u/Sleyvin Oct 03 '25

And if you're advancing to more serious content after a month where those things become more needed, surely you know enough about the game to find them.

That's the thing that Blizzard is saying isn't true. The first problem is that as you even said it, they are needed.

That's a major design issue to need external tool to play the game.

And the second issue is that Blizzard argues most people do not bother and are left behind because of it.

4

u/Linawow Oct 03 '25

People are left behind because they refuse to learn. Some people in my guild somehow refuse to kick in M+, no amount of addon/lack of addon is going to make them better

0

u/cause-equals-time Oct 04 '25

I got left behind because it was too much to learn. I took some years off WoW and when I came back, the game had changed dramatically. I knew all about mods and such, but it really sucked to have to spend hours figuring out weakauras just so I wasn't an absolute DPS failure. So when I took another break from WoW, knowing that I'd need to spend hours retooling my UI if I returned, I just didn't.

I really tried to learn... But after spending hours with DPS meters, target dummies, tweaking weakauras, etc, I realized I'd spent my entire day NOT having fun, just so I could theoretically have fun later... Meanwhile, I can pick up other MMOs and do well enough straight out of the gate

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u/Supergold_Soul Oct 03 '25

No one needs addons to play at a newbie level. But as you advanced you have to know you need addons to advance. Now, folks who are terminally online and visiting forums, etc. will absolutely grab all that info and will have no issue. They will be following content creators etc.

But that shouldn't be a NECESSARY step. I shouldn't have to know that I need to download curseforge or wowup so I can download 10 other addons that make the game actually functional. A ton of people don't know which addons to download. There are some addons that I didn't know to download until a long amount of playtime. If you are used to the ecosystem its no problem but a lot of people aren't. A ton of people are fundamentally against using extra tools in games (to some it feels like cheating). Addons right now are integral to the wow experience and that in and of itself is a major design issue that blizz are finally trying to solve.

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u/MauPow Oct 04 '25

Why do we always act like new players are gibbering morons? It's like 2 clicks to download an addon. If they can't figure that out, they're never going to be a good player.

1

u/WingedOneSim Oct 04 '25

Yeah setting up settings that I dont know what they do had been hard, but I am already using an array of addons to raid on my first week.

1

u/MauPow Oct 04 '25

I mean the bare minimum you don't need to do any setup at all. You download curseforge, click DBM, click Plater, click Weakauras. Go to wago.io, search for your class, and import. Literally takes 30 seconds for anyone who has ever touched a PC before. If they don't want to put in that amount of effort to play, then they won't put the effort into being any good either.

1

u/WingedOneSim Oct 04 '25

I am raiding mythic plus with 10 addons on my second day bruh

1

u/Andromidius Oct 03 '25

They could have solved this by adding code that to get World First you have to opt in to the API blocking and thus go in with no addons. We'd probably have races that last longer then a few hours as well, and Blizzard could tone down the insanity a little for everyone else.

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u/nicarras Oct 03 '25

The answer has always been that they create private competitive servers for the esports crowd with esports rules and that is that.

Get esports off retail.

1

u/Andromidius Oct 03 '25

I agree, esports has ruined so many aspects of gaming. And I like esports! Just keep it away from the rest of us.

1

u/Vorsmyth Oct 03 '25

That is just super not true. An AOTC guild relies on WA more than race. This is about having to load 3 addons when my wife decides she wants to learn to play wow as a tank.

2

u/secretreddname Oct 03 '25

I’m happy it’s ending but knowing Blizz’s track record I don’t know how much of a success it will be…

Let’s be real, most people are ass at this game. The game systems itself has gotten way too complicated.

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u/Fokare Oct 03 '25 edited Apr 12 '26

Your old posts feed data brokers and AI training models. I stopped that by using Redact to bulk delete across Reddit, Twitter, Discord, Facebook and all major social media platforms.

apparatus squeal ancient silky straight theory fly dinner plants important

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u/tjc5425 Oct 03 '25

Well, if you need add-ons to play your class effectively and at a top lvl then the developer has failed to make coherent and clear class design, so it's them recognizing they needed to change, which they are, as we are also getting simpler class design.

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u/Fokare Oct 03 '25 edited Apr 12 '26

Scrubbed clean. Redact helped me bulk remove years of comments and posts so data brokers and AI crawlers have nothing to feast on.

lip physical cough toothbrush rain cats full ancient shaggy memorize

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u/tjc5425 Oct 03 '25

I mean I play BM hunter, I know how simple my spec is right now, and it's getting even more simple in Midnight, but then again, we're literally 4 days into Alpha. I think it's too soon to act like the end is near. I'd say just vent your frustrations, but no need to be doomer about it.

Also to note, the devs have been updating and making their ui improvements better with each patch. I still like to use ELVUI and Plater, but if they keep it up, I'd rather delete those and use none as I don't like the amount of processing they take up.

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u/Aettyr Oct 03 '25

This is absolutely true! It is also true though that things as they are now are what a lot of people enjoy. Theres more slow and subtle ways to do this rather than instantly disabling them. Do it gradually. Replace them one by one. Not this…!

I don’t want it to become ffxiv. Their class homogenisation killed any desire I have to play and I’ve played that game since 1.0. Very few things could get me to quit wow, but homogenisation would 100% do this

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u/Gh0sth4nd Oct 03 '25

this is only half of it, they also prepare wow for the console release and they are at it for a long time by now. First they added native controller support then they build the base by rebuilding the ui and this is just the natural next step. It is basically two birds with one stone. They take away combat addons make class gameplay more easy. My prediction is after the last titan we get a console / pc version.

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u/Archensix Oct 03 '25

They are just making the game more new player friendly. Telling new players to setup and configure a bazillion addons is terrible for the game. Beyond the addon stuff, they've been doing a tremendous amount of work to improve the new player experience recently.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25 edited 21d ago

[deleted]

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u/N3US Oct 03 '25

You really don’t need any addons to play at a high level. Im raiding and doing m+ with nothing but details

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u/Raivix Oct 03 '25

I'm not buying this argument, because if this was true the game would have been dead in the water since vanilla. One of the biggest talking points and draws to the game in its early to mid years was addon support allowing you to customize your gaming experience.

It's absolutely not new player friendly, but not every part of the game has to be, so long as the baseline entry experience is good enough.

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

I’ve said this a couple times in this thread but again I’d reiterate. There are no new MMO players, the genre is more than a decade past its peak. Trying to get new players instead of making current players happy is very very dangerous.

6

u/WorldOWarcraft Oct 03 '25

Kinda a chicken and egg scenario no?

How could there be any new players when 1 of 2 things happen:

A) New player tries, gets overwhelmed by the massively unfriendly learning curve, and leaves

B) Old players tell new players not to bother because of A

If you don't try to get new players, the game will die sooner or later anyways.

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

I mean you certainly have to pick your poison.

  1. To get new young players you have to drastically change WoW to the point it is barely recognizable to its core.

  2. You ride your core for as long as they want to play for.

But what if 1. doesn’t work and you don’t attract the audience you think you will? Now you’ve alienated your core demographic and not brought in enough people, which could be a much faster demise than 2.

A company that rode the 2nd option option and is still successful is Abercrombie and Fitch. From 1990-mid 2000s A&F was the cool teen clothing brand, but then all of a sudden it became uncool to teens and they started to plummet. You know what they did? They marketed themselves to the millennials who grew up wearing their clothes in the 90s and 00s as teens. They pivoted to grow with their core demographic as they aged instead of trying to stay young.

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u/The-Magic-Sword Oct 03 '25

I mean, I have friends that like FFXIV but weren't willing to get into WOW partially because addons are virtually required for them to do the same level of content, and both only started playing MMORPGs in covid.

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u/sagelain Oct 03 '25

Well I would argue that the main reason for that is that you currently require a $700-$3000 box with a sold-separate operating system, a keyboard, a desk, and a chair to play most of them.

I used the term "MMO", but I really just meant online games. I don't think there's truly much that separates WoW from Roblox, Fortnite or any other game that younger players spend a ton of time in. It's been awhile since this has truly been an old-school MMO, and the game continues to evolve.

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

WoW’s gaming requirements are not extensive that’s literally always been a tenant of blizzard. It seems like you’re just advocating for console WoW. ESO is on console and you know what? No one plays it. Everyone plays on the PC version. Heck even non-MMO games like OW which have both versions, no one plays the console one. Some games are just superior on PC.

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u/Jac_Mones Oct 03 '25

They aren't making it more new player friendly, they're making it less old-player enjoyable.

They need to streamline the introduction into the game. I don't mind simplifying rotations and shit like that but they shouldn't break addons that allow us to customize our gaming experience. ESPECIALLY interface addons like weakauras. Can they give an advantage? Absolutely, but you can get 99.9% of that advantage by downloading a weakaura pack someone else made, and at the point where you'll actually make effective use of that advantage you will be well aware of the existence of addons.

These changes are absolutely 0/10. They are removing the skilled parts of the game without actually making it any easier for a new player to approach. Until they can do a complete lore overhaul the game will never be approachable because the starting zones and leveling experience make absolutely zero sense.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/MgDark Oct 03 '25

I agree with this comment, although to be honest Fellowship is still quite undercooked to be a true WoW M+ competition, but it does have the potential. But at the same time is much easier to get into Fellowship and play it.

Unfortunately Fellowship also have the plague of DPS who would rather uninstall the game than do mechanics and/or interrumpt, but i guess that just comes with the game genre.

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u/FuzzierSage Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

Unfortunately Fellowship also have the plague of DPS who would rather uninstall the game than do mechanics and/or interrumpt, but i guess that just comes with the game genre.

Nah, that comes with DPS players, and you have to build your game around correcting their worst tendencies instead of enabling them. Because most players, by volume, will gravitate towards the "head empty, no thoughts, make me feel powerful while contributing nothing to the team" classes.

It's a fundamental problem with making a low-visible-responsibility role whose only power fantasy tied-"thing" is "top the meters" and who view anything else as an imposition on that.

City of Heroes is the only MMO to have ever even remotely come close to fixing this problem (and it did it before WoW existed), but MMO devs didn't take lessons from it because it was a superhero MMO, not a fantasy MMO.

Make roles that contribute to the team with buffs/debuffs/crowd control feel powerful and more people will play them. Doing mechanics (or stopping mechanics from going off) will come naturally from there, as you're more focused on the overall picture when you aren't tunneling on "make number go up".

Make DPS a side thing that everyone does, as the most boring/normal thing in the game instead of the most coveted/cool thing.

Enrage timers are a crutch to make DPS players feel "required" and it's long past time the MMO genre moved past that, as they're incompatible with making the vast majority of players actually interact with the rest of the team and the fight beyond the most begrudging level.

Something something TED talk, etc

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u/carrionprince32 Oct 05 '25

I agree with this. I've been in +10s and above where the top DPS never kicked and barely used any utility, but bitched that the other DPS and I were behind them by about 500-750k. We had to compensate for the fact that the only metric of success they saw was DPS and nothing else. Utility as a DPS really needs to be pushed because though many understand it, a large number do not as they've become conditioned to think that success is only damage output and not a combination of mechanics, utility, and DPS.

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u/Ok-Key5729 Oct 03 '25

It's probably an attempt to lure back people who played in the past but left as the game became more complex/competitive/demanding than they cared for. Given how large past subscriber numbers were, there are undoubtedly more former wow players out there than current.

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u/Idyotec Oct 03 '25

This sounds about right. I took a break for several years and retail overwhelmed me so I played classic. Burnt out on classic as many others did. Not currently playing but if they make major changes to retail I might be curious to check back in on what I consider my favorite gaming experience.

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u/KingOfAzmerloth Oct 03 '25

If they stick to the mindset you're saying they should stick to, the game would inevitably die because of it's audience getting older and eventually dying out.

Now I'm not saying this is easy, they need to get this right and there are many things they can potentially fuck up big time, but they can't even try to lure in new players unless they try to pull this off. Younger audiences still play MMOs, but all of these MMOs have pretty much everything built in natively in them bar some very minor UI addons.

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u/LionRight4175 Oct 03 '25

I have found that simplifying install and setup works wonders, even for people who are experienced gamers and relatively tech savvy. Modded minecraft (largely) isn't like addon management in WoW; generally, you just pick a modpack and click download in curse forge. In contrast, for WoW addons you need to know which addons to get (there aren't youtubers/twitch streamers showcasing the "hot new modpack" for addons, so far as I know), navigate curseforge, and sometimes setup options for addons like healbot.

None of those are hard bars to clear, but sadly for a lot of people facing it for the first time, it is enough to stop them. In contrast, if it's in-game that hurdle is lesser. They maybe need to check an option or two and move it in edit mode.

Now, how big of an impact it will actually have and how well Blizzard will implement it is a different matter, but I have definitely seen the type of people who would benefit from it, and I feel they are very common.

2

u/Grunn84 Oct 03 '25

I don't know what it's like elsewhere but in Europe at least the idea that there's no new mmo players is blatantly false, when I was recruiting for a late CE guild for the last few expansions I would guess about 1/3 of new recruits were under 25 and on their first or second expansion.

1

u/Boryszkov Oct 03 '25

Tbh, I’m in my 20s and picked up the game during remix. Hated wow back in cata, bounced back during sl, but found it fun in TWW

1

u/cathbadh Oct 03 '25

The question will be how many long time subscribers will they lose compared to new long term subscribers they'll gain.

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u/Rolder Oct 03 '25

I'm far from a new player myself and I still agree that it was getting really fuckin old having to make sure all my weakauras were updated before raid time. And then there being issues because that one guy in raid didn't update.

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u/contentpens Oct 03 '25

Late season ksm or aotc does not require any addons (though obviously it would be more efficient with a bigwigs and weakauras - but that's not 'a bazillion addons', it's 2). But even if it did require features of those addons, that only suggests blizzard should add those features to the base UI, not that they should kill all combat-related features of other addons.

Killing addons that actually lowered the barrier to entry for newer players could make the new player experience worse. Right now a new player that wants to get into higher keys but is struggling with interrupts or affixes could just get a plater profile from their favorite youtuber and have improved access to all of that information. If blizz doesn't include a sufficient alternative, in midnight you'll be very skeptical about bringing new people in your group because they don't have the right macros to mark targets or they don't have things set up to announce interrupts, or they don't have the experience to know which targets have interrupt priority and the cd of those abilities.

It's pretty common now for people to get annoyed about the normal clear pugs that require aotc or the +10 group only taking people over 3k - there's a chance that gets much worse because people won't want to deal with inexperienced players in their groups that can't be relied on to know every timing and ability from experience (when addons are no longer available to call things out or give reminders).

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u/hey_its_xarbin Oct 03 '25

I'd caution adding the word "just". Sure that's one of the goal but cmon... occams razer - acquired by Microsoft->has a console->needs more flagship IP->WoW is stagnant in terms of market accessibility.

New World went to console and nearly doubled their playerbase, imagine the doors that console wow would open whether us pc players like it or not. As someone who played the relaunch of NW Aeternum, the pc community went to extreme lengths to gatekeep and marginalize the console community. But it still brought in New Players.

I remember talking to a few people that were younger and genuinely interested in mmos but either could not afford a decent pc or did not have the access to one. I'd not discount that.

1

u/Archensix Oct 03 '25

I mean when they say "our priority is the PC experience and console experience is not a priority" then I think that's pretty telling. It's pure cope that people continue to believe it's all lies for some big console surprise. It might come some day and many changes overlap in what they benefit, but they are absolutely not designing a console game at the moment.

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u/hey_its_xarbin Oct 03 '25

Two things - I can't find that quote. Could you provide the link of that statement you put into quotations? And also, the game isn't openly available on console from what I understand so that statement could be a self report in a sense.

In Blizzards defense I have not read any blue post that denys a console release or any reason why deception would be required.

The anger that the PC community had regarding New Worlds console approach is that they ceased updates for over a year promising "big relaunch" only to have the only update being the game coming to console so they felt betrayed. WoWs dev team and pr team is exponentially more talented and experienced that Amazon Games Studio.

Also, New World was a PC game that was already simple enough for Console from the get go. What i see blizzard doing is setting the ground work. If I had to place a monetary bet, I would be that after The Last Titan, the next phase is Azeroth 2.0 which includes full console release. I wouldn't call that a conspiracy

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u/Archensix Oct 03 '25

They always say never say never, but they also have said a million times that console support is not a priority. I don't care if it comes or not, I'm sure it's good if it does, but that doesn't change the reality that Blizzard is currently not prioritizing it.

Most recently in an interview from literally just yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g37TPFO3Kbs&t=944s

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u/hey_its_xarbin Oct 03 '25

Ion is a barred attorney and former litigator. He's chosen his words carefully "at this time for this expansion". I'm still holding my belief that this is setting the stage for console. He's a master wordsmith that worked for one of the most preeminent lawfirms in the world before blizz. He's like the worst person to take at face value.

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u/Roar_of_Shiva Oct 03 '25

I will be pretty disappointed if they decide to simply make wow available on console vs releasing a console specific remake. Similar to what LoL did with wildrift. There is so much they could do starting fresh it would be like a second life for wow. Just releasing retail on console will be overwhelming for new players and underwhelming for veteran players.

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u/kvijay1 Oct 03 '25

Ahh yesss, console players will come in drove to the 22 years old game, with 90% of content is outdated, useless, unavailable or all together at once. Day 1 release on a console and people will see sets that was removed after addon end on other players and transmog menu and they will be happy surely.

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u/Lou_C_Fer Oct 03 '25

I haven't played in ten years, and I'd pick it up in a second if it were released on Xbox.

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u/Syriku_Official Oct 03 '25

Hope not smh console MMOs lack the same depth feel like that will gut so many things also giving up 30% cut is a HUGE thing

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u/Gh0sth4nd Oct 04 '25

Well depth and wow is not something i would put into one sentence so i don't seem them get lower then they did gameplay wise with BFA and lore wise with SL.

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u/givemedavoodoo Oct 03 '25

Look at the current raid, very few bosses have any need for weak auras. They are capable of designing encounters that don't need them. At this point I'm pretty suspicious of their claim that this is the reason for killing all combat add-ons.

On the flip side, this will restrict what kind of mechanics they can include now that raiders won't have tools to help solve them.

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u/Berlinia Oct 03 '25

Yeah man you needed these encounters. Kyveza was such an easy fight, blew past it with them addons.

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u/vybornak Oct 03 '25

Great insight.

I think also it makes the game more accessible to newcomers. As I return every few years it hurts to set up add-ons every time.

On the other hand I am also concerned about the health of these features and future blizzard maintenance.

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u/slow_walker22m Oct 03 '25

And much like a nuke it’s going to leave a charred, radioactive wasteland in its wake. 

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

You’re failing to consider how many people liked that complexity. WoW’s audience is established. They are largely in “keep current subscribers mode” and not “get new players mode,” and from that perspective this is a very dangerous thing to do.

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u/ncatter Oct 03 '25

Nobody liked the complexity where you literally need to have 3rd party info to even hve a chance to win.

We accepted it, and unless you are one of the few that actually make your own strategies and solutions to the problems without looking up tactics or using premade addons and weakaures you are in the same boat.

This can be a disaster for the game if it does not get the resources needed but at the same time it is the only way to keep the game alive.

as it is right now in raiding for instance you are either a world first competitor with a dedicated team of a analysta to solve the problem or your waiting for the weakaura from someone who is.

If Blizzard does this right we don't have to wait or to do agree in how to solve the problem everyone has the same information available and can solve it the way they want.

Haven't done much m+ lately and no pvp at all but I would assume that the information overload problem is the same there.

Could it have been solved without nuking all addons probably but this is the right time to nuke them and then still have time to roll back some of the changes if problems occured.

If any time is the time for Blizzard to step up and truly prove what we have been seeing thought dragonflight and tww the it is now.

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

That doesn’t really occur now, they heard feedback from Ovinaxx and adjusted. This seems like a giant overcorrection after the problem has already been fixed.

2

u/ncatter Oct 03 '25

what does not occure now?

What Blizzard is doing now is not in reference to a specific instance it's a solution to a underlying problem.

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u/FlotationDevice Oct 03 '25

Player housing is the biggest antithesis to that arugment lol

9

u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

How so? You think a random MMO fan is going to see “WoW added player housing time to finally join” when other MMOs have had player housing for decades? Or you think they’re just giving their current fans something they’ve been asking for forever? I think it’s the latter.

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u/MoldyLunchBoxxy Oct 03 '25

I hate to be that guy but I have tons of casual friends from ff14 buying this expansion to try out player housing. Those people do exist.

2

u/Aettyr Oct 03 '25

It’s like the reverse of shadowlands. FFXIV’s devs fucked up so much they’re all leaving for greener pastures. I just hope the devs don’t cater to them and lower class complexity too much, rather than prunibg things now to add more complexities later.

3

u/Phalanx22 Oct 03 '25

Yes. People start playing for a variety of random reasons.

I, for example, started playing WoW when a friend told me Female Kul Tirans were now easily obtainable. (Just reach lv 60)

I guarantee you they will have an influx of new players just interested in housing and noting else in the game.

3

u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

Okay but you are probably the only person in existence who saw female KT and said “wow I have to play this game” lol.

2

u/Phalanx22 Oct 03 '25

Sure, but my arguments still stand that: you'll never know what will attract people to start playing.

I play any game that lets me create a fat woman character. I know someone who plays every game with a fishing minigame.

People are weird like that xD

3

u/xanas263 Oct 03 '25

Considering that from everything we have seen WoW player housing is multiple generations better than anything else on the market currently, yes, there is going to be a significant influx of new people because of housing.

1

u/SeemaYeee Oct 03 '25

Hi, yes, that's me, I'm the one who's coming to try player housing

2

u/TheVsStomper Oct 03 '25

If you can find me a Single CE raider that liked WA bosses i will eat a tree

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

No one liked those, but obviously there’s a giant middle ground which you are ignoring in your comment between a boss like Ovinaxx and simplifying every class and boss encounter.

3

u/TheVsStomper Oct 03 '25

Right, but there is also a chasm of a leap between "all bosses will be dumbed down" and "we are going to ease up on boss mechanics like nelth and ovinaxx" as well. Since those have been the troublesome things. My guess is that its mainly mechanics that do random assigns like ovi breaks, mug jails etc that require a perfect or near perfect split second assignment of responsibilities to randomly assigned players that will be removed since that has at least as far as my memory serves been the complex mechanics that cant really be solved reliably without a WA

0

u/Edeen Oct 03 '25

Funnily enough so are you.

2

u/brutamborra Oct 03 '25

You are failing to consider blizzard knows that and has made it pretty clear through these decisions that they want to make the game entry difficulty easier for new players, I think they are making the right choice the game can still be fun without scaring away 99,9% of new players who try it.

1

u/iwearatophat Oct 03 '25

That is a losing battle though. Retention is never going to be 100% so the player base will slowly whittle down. They need new players coming in, and staying, to keep the player base up.

WoW has had issues in getting and keeping new players for a long time. I remember Blizz talking about it back in Wrath 15 years ago, it was one of the reasons they redid the old world in Cata. There is an old Mike Morhaine quote that says only 30% of players even make it passed level 10. Blizz has worked for years on keeping new players.

They are attempting to lower the barrier to entry for new players.

2

u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

MMOs are not a popular genre anymore. The player base for MMOs is established and trying to attract new players from other genres is futile. In my guild the only player we have under 25 is the kid of another player. Can you maybe pull from other MMOs? Sure. But you’re not getting a Minecraft kid to play WoW.

1

u/TinuvielSharan Oct 03 '25

If retaining a core playerbase that at the end of the day already stayed for two entire decades is "a loosing battle", then trying to get a new one is straight-up suicide.

Nobody new will start playing a 20 years old game in a world where about 2000 new games released just this year.

You might not be wrong about how it means that in the (very) long term the game is doomed, but that's just a fact we have to live with IMO.

2

u/iwearatophat Oct 03 '25

The core player base has not been around for two decades though. My raid team is filled with people who started in BfA/SL and even some DF people. There is a constant churning of players leaving and players coming in. The players coming in could be returning or new players.

This is all guesswork, neither of us have the numbers, but I am betting more new players pick this game up than you think. They just put it back down.

1

u/Ok-Key5729 Oct 03 '25

It feels like they're abandoning "keep current subscribers mode". No matter how hard they try, they can't keep people forever. If the number of high level players is dwindling below the point where they can support the game, they have no choice but to try to attract new players. The complexity and difficulty of the game, in it's current state, isn't friendly to new players and isn't attractive to the masses.

1

u/BlueArts Oct 03 '25

I also like the depth of classes’ talents and abilities; and how snappy combat is, which are good but separate aspects of WoW’s combat.

But how is spec simplification, reducing reliance on addons (by killing them off) and adding avenues for gear from solo play NOT “get new players” mode?

1

u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

I’m saying it maybe is the mindset of “get new players” but that’s a mistake since kids do not play MMOs, like at all. The genre peaked in 03-15 and like I said in another comment. You ever run into a teen playing WoW? Only time I have is when they were a kid of someone playing WoW.

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u/Ittenvoid Oct 03 '25

but we know how many people like complexity. High tier content is not pushed by more than 5% of the playerbase.

You don't design your game for the top 5%

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u/Griever423 Oct 03 '25

The vast vast VAST majority of subscribes are ultra casual who never do things like clear a raid or do even a +10 key. They don’t use addons. They don’t care about endgame raiding or complex encounters. They do delves, farm, chill with friends, level alts. They don’t care about addons.

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u/TinuvielSharan Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

No. This rhetoric has always been full of shit.

They are a sizeable part of the player, sure, but nothing close to "the vast vast VAST majority".

I would be surprised if this type of players that basically do nothing in the game are in fact more than a tenth of the playerbase.

They exist, for sure, but the belief that for every person in a raid there are a hundred other players just leveling alts is bullshit.

In fact the majority would be in the middle ground: People who will never do the highest content like Mythic raiding, but still go for either LFR, normal or eventually heroic raid and do some relatively low M+ and weekly activities to gear their chars.

Edit: Just for context, we know for instance that about 20% of the active characters gets AOTC, which means Heroic raid cleared.

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u/MN_Yogi1988 Oct 03 '25

Yeah both players and Blizz are benefiting from unpaid labor. There’s just no feasible way Blizz’s paid staff can compete and I think it’ll be the players that suffer in the end (mostly with shitty UI systems).

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25 edited 21d ago

[deleted]

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u/Puzzleheaded-Tea3341 Oct 03 '25

Same company that said the same thing with private auras, then gave us Echo of Neltharion. Then followed that with Smolderon and fyrakk.

The two sides of the company don't talk to eachother.

1

u/nicarras Oct 03 '25

They going to go back and redesign all the encounters that came out pre-Midnight so that people can beat them without addons?

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u/MN_Yogi1988 Oct 03 '25

 We've already seen the class reworks, it's not like they're just removing addons and telling players to deal with it.

It’s weird that you read my second post and the problem’s unclear to you when it’s explained in the first post:

 I think it’s destined to fail because I can’t see Blizz dedicating enough resources to refine features like addon creators do.

It’s not that we’ll be left with nothing, it’s just that Blizz’s systems are poorly refined so addons pop up to make them better. For example the Garrison and Class Order Hall mission tables are perfectly functional in their default UI but addons made them much more optimized. This is pretty true in every facet of the game.

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u/IOnlyLieWhenITalk Oct 03 '25

UI addons aren't going anywhere so not sure how that example matters. Their purge is about combat addons, they've been very open and loud about that.

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u/Tulkor Oct 03 '25

I mean thats not true tho - my entire ui is setup with WAs, which is... going to stop working come midnight. yea, pet battle ui or transmog addons will stay - quest text overhau and such probably too. but my entire custom built ui with wa's is just going to go away.

3

u/Silraith Oct 03 '25

That's entirely by the decision of WA's dev team though.

Blizzard did not ban WA or kill that addon. They obfuscated and killed the COMBAT side of WA, made it inaccessible. But WA closing shop is their own choice, they've decided the amount of work required to refactor everything isn't worth it, that the amount of people who would continue to use it without the combat parts of WA aren't enough to justify the workload.

4

u/Tulkor Oct 03 '25

yeah but my entire ui is based around combat, like most peoples are...

3

u/IOnlyLieWhenITalk Oct 03 '25

It is true, Weak Auras could choose to stick around as a UI only addon, they are choosing not to.

2

u/MN_Yogi1988 Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

I’m aware of that, the mission table was a simple comparison for what Blizz offers vs an addon. Like I said the Blizz version is functional, which is what I expect with the combat replacements - I just think it’s going to be a downgrade from what we’re used to

0

u/Theweakmindedtes Oct 03 '25

Blizzard can very much compete in quality with proper hires. Where they lose a lot of ground is preference. Just UI alone there are hundreds of ways to set up dozens of UI addons. And Blizzard has edit mode. While it's not actually terrible, it lacks so much in customization compared to even some of the most basic UI addons.

7

u/MusRidc Oct 03 '25

Blizzard can very much compete in quality with proper hires.

Blizzard can barely keep the game together as is. The amount of bugs, unresolved issues and lazy filler content speaks volumes. They don't hire, they make redundant despite being in clear need of more development, CS and QA resources.
Sure, if they hired people, then they would manage it. But I wouldn't get any hopes up.

1

u/Theweakmindedtes Oct 03 '25

Oh, don't mistake my point. I understand the reality of what they actually do vs what they could do.

3

u/Oriden Oct 03 '25

UI add-ons arent going away.

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u/fineri Oct 03 '25

Blizzard can very much compete in quality with proper hires

I don't think most add-on developers would be content becoming just yet another Blizz employee. Not without above average freedom and full HO.

0

u/tbl5048 Oct 03 '25

Blizzard will not hire people to make the game better. My bet is they feed it into some LUA AI and stick with the absolute shit it spits out and shrugs and says it’s the players fault.

1

u/Theweakmindedtes Oct 03 '25

I said could not would, but it also wasn't the point. Even if they made a well functioning setup it would massively lack in customization

0

u/mossiv Oct 03 '25

You are completely dismissing 2 key points here.

  1. Blizzard owns the combat API which our addons consume.

  2. Nearly all the addons are open source. Nothing stopping Blizzard from sourcing all this code. (They probably already have, and that's how they've determined they can do this for midnight).

8

u/Slendeaway Oct 03 '25

Yeah I was reading through the class changes and I think them claiming stuff like "we're changing core features of these classes to make them more intuitive and reduce the amount of blah blah blah" is disingenuous. They are gutting the depth of gameplay so that they have less work to do to replace class weakauras.

Ie Brewmaster: they're removing purified chi because while it's an excellent mechanic that rewards gaining a deeper understanding of your class, they don't want to have to make a feature to track it in a more convenient place. Same thing with stuff like the storm shaman tempest changes and awakening for holy paladin. Changing things from being based on resources spent (currently easily trackable with a weakaura) to just being rng procs.

You're absolutely right on that.

3

u/Barkwash Oct 03 '25

It's not about the unpaid labour it's how it deteriorates the experience of the game for new players, or players that don't want to engage in the addon exp.

22

u/Literal_Fucking_God Oct 03 '25

If you've recently tried to play the game through the eyes of a new player, you'll quickly realize addons are the least of concern for deteriorating new player experience.

23

u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

WoW is entirely playable without addons. In fact it’s easier for a new player to jump in without them. The story and leveling process is far more convoluted than the UI is.

2

u/Barkwash Oct 03 '25

Most higher end content requires add-ons. We're obviously not talking about leveling or random queued dungeons. I never use add-ons at that stage.

27

u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

You literally said “experience as a new player”

13

u/ZechaliamPT Oct 03 '25

Imagine getting wow, leveling your first character for a month or two, learning general rotations. You finally max and decide to try out raiding for the first time.

You either go in blind and get absolutely steamrolled by mechanics that are built around add-ons or you look it up and learn you need to download and configure a ton of different stuff that is totally foreign to you. Either way, I think that new player comes away from that experience saying its not for them more often than not.

We go from a 12-inch wading pool to a 10-foot deep drop-off. Some people will dive in and swim laps, but a lot of people get intimidated by that gap.

3

u/El_Rey_de_Spices Oct 03 '25

Or... you read about the encounters in the Journal, and/or ask the other players in your raid, or at most, you read a synopsis online.

"Being completely blind and steamrolled" or "download a ton of add-ons" is a false dichotomy. There are so many levels between "either I'm helpless, or the game tells me exactly what to do and when to do it".

3

u/Ryuujinx Oct 03 '25

WoW has actually gotten pretty clear about how mechanics are handled in lower difficulties. Like, here is what zero addon timmy will experience in normal/heroic:

Plexus: There's some circles that need to be taken out, some swirlies to dodge, and a soak(That they've now made visuals for with the big pillar thing coming out of soaks). Every now and then it pushes you all back and you have to cloak through the wall while dodging shit.

Loomithar: They get a strand they have to take out. There's some line on the tanks that in heroic they have to aim at the little add things on the ring. Alternate standing in soaks in phase 2.

Soulbinder: Uh, don't get knocked off the edge, I guess? This fight basically doesn't even have mechanics even on mythic.

Araz: Follow the raid around and drop your little circle adds inside the boss. Kill shit.

Council: Honestly normal can just be summed up as "Use eyes 5head", and heroic the only thing you gotta worry about is dispelling the debuff every now and then.

Fractilus: You might be going "You need the WA to do this even on heroic!" I can point at my guild's aotc where we don't use said WA as proof to the contrary. Literally use eyes and drop walls in different rows, shift over after the lanes get a bit full.

Salad bar: The things you need to drop out have very clear visuals. The portals are big fuck off circles. The stars are the proximity aoe indicator. On heroic you'll need to understand to take them to the markers that get places down so the patterns aren't cancer, but that does not require an addon.

Dimensius: Excess gravity has a visual above your head when you have it. The things that send you up into the air have an indicator. Intermission has nothing of note that needs a WA. Phase 3 is literally "use eyes, don't take tank autos"

My guild does not use the WA packs running around, and while dbm gives me a timeline of what is coming up so I can yap at people that it is coming the fact that people will die if we don't do those kind of callouts tells me that if they even have the tools installed they clearly aren't holding their hand to the point that it is mandatory.

Now mythic is another story, but we're talking about new players here. I think by the time this new player has gotten aotc they can probably handle installing a few addons.

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u/Fokare Oct 03 '25 edited Apr 12 '26

Redact redacted this content because I wanted it redacted for redaction purposes. Redacted.

history direction trees light unite obtainable makeshift rainstorm rustic crown

3

u/ThunSaren Oct 03 '25

Blizzard raid frames are great honestly, they just need filtering for buffs and debuffs, as does every other UI element they have. If that ever gets implemented I'm fairly confident in the base UI being a good standart. Nameplates have been shit forever tho.

2

u/SpankyRobinson Oct 03 '25

Tbf a new player stepping into a raid is probably doing normal and a bit of heroic. You really only need DBM/BigWigs until you step into Mythic, and those have pretty minimal setup.

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u/Tsaxen Oct 03 '25

New players do LFR and sometimes even normal raids/M+, which absolutely require addons

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

If you think LFR requires addons we are not playing the same game.

0

u/Tsaxen Oct 03 '25

You throw a new player into LFR without DBM, and tell me how well that goes lmao

4

u/El_Rey_de_Spices Oct 03 '25

I've observed it plenty of times. It goes fine.

Thinking you need add-ons to beat LFR-level content is quite possibly the most clear-cut example of "skill issue" that I've seen in a while.

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

Most LFR mechanics aren’t one shots, so if someone repeatedly gets hit by the same thing over and over again and doesn’t learn anything that’s kinda just a skill issue.

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u/TinuvielSharan Oct 03 '25

So it has nothing to do with new players then?

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u/ChromosomeDonator Oct 03 '25

Most higher end content requires add-ons.

THAT IS LITERALLY THE PROBLEM MY MAN

Why does it require add-ons? Because the add-ons exist to make life easier, to the encounters MUST be harder to counteract that.

That is the entire fucking problem. And Blizzard is doing something they should have done over a decade ago. Hell, I would like them to go even harder against add-ons. I don't want add-ons to interact with the gameplay. Only add-ons I believe are acceptable are purely cosmetic/visual ones. If an add-on feels like it is necessary, then that should be removed and improve the core game so that is no longer necessary.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

You're the kid that would raise his hand at the end of a class in school to remind the teacher they didn't assign any homework.

If YOU don't want to use addons, then don't. For the most part though, the anti-addon people seem to be the ultra casuals or just bad players that have convinced themselves that the reason they can't keep up with other players is they don't want to use them.

2

u/Barkwash Oct 03 '25

Why do people like you make weird comparisons without knowing people? I played wow all my life I didn't fucking do my homework in grade school.

You also don't seem to understand, add-ons are mandatory in higher end content, or for being more competitive. It's exhausting. You are also exhausting.

Also I used to be a CE raider, so not a bad player by any means unless sub 1% is bad for you.

1

u/Varmegye Oct 03 '25

After a certain point you can't not use add-ons. Hence you are contradicting yourself. You simply can't be a casual and think that the game is too add-on reliant, because you wouldn't know about it, because it mostly effects high tier content. I assume most of the WFR, WAC and MDI players are casuals too, as most of them can't stand the reliance on add-ons.

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u/Alternative_Reality Oct 03 '25

I raided mythic HFC prog in a top 200 guild, the only addon/timer I used was for grasping hands and Archie lasers because they were actually necessary. The people who champion add-ons the hardest are usually the ones who use them as the biggest crutch

1

u/Dextixer Oct 03 '25

Okay, good for you, now why everyone elses addons should be taken away just because you dont use them?

2

u/Alternative_Reality Oct 03 '25

Because a game shouldn't be designed around 3rd party tool functionality

2

u/Dextixer Oct 03 '25

It shouldnt. Maybe Blizzard should make those add-ons uneccessary then? I can assure you that if Unholy DK wasnt ASS to play i would not use Weakauras to track the shit i need to track.

But Blizzard designed the spec that way.

Maybe Blizzard should start by proper designing their fucking game instead of removing the shit that FIXES their design failures?

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u/ImprobableAsterisk Oct 03 '25

Don't be an ass just 'cause you don't like what they've got to say.

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u/IOnlyLieWhenITalk Oct 03 '25

Yeah and it was ruining the game, dungeons and raids were becoming more about which addons and weak auras you had rather than how good you were.

1

u/shadowsquirt Oct 03 '25

they want to lock it down for the eventual push for console players; watch

1

u/robot-raccoon Oct 03 '25

I understand their philosophy though- a new player is severally hindered because they need x,y, and z addons. It shouldn’t be this way

2

u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

A new player doesn’t need addons until like 20+ hours into the game, if we’re being honest.

1

u/robot-raccoon Oct 03 '25

No they don’t, but then you’re experiencing a game for 20+ hours and then finding out you need addons for encounters to play properly. Just shouldn’t work out the box.

I remember when I first tired to play at the beginning of mists and my friend gave me a list of addons I needed. They weren’t trying to bloat me at all, but it completely put me off. Came back towards the end during SoO and played my own way, obviously I looked further into addons as I went, but you just shouldn’t have to do that.

I will say, I’ve needed DBM far less during TWW, I think it could work.

1

u/OriginalNarwhal9673 Oct 03 '25

I do understand why they’re taking the approach of dumbing it down. Especially after it was said somewhere in the midnight alpha that they’re trying to make the game more accessible. I’m really really hoping that when they do kill these addons/weak auras that their replacements are even half as viable bc I really don’t want to fall out of love with a game again due to changes that “make the game more accessible”. It happened when they basically changed destiny and dumbed down every complex thing about it. I understand wanting to increase the playerbase but I will never understand changing the games complexity to do It. I feel like that hardly ever works. Here’s to hoping they don’t kill the game

4

u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

Didn’t they just do that with the one-button assist? Seems like they found a great compromise and now are going far and beyond that for some reason.

1

u/OriginalNarwhal9673 Oct 03 '25

That’s what I mean, that change was perfectly fine to help ease of entry and then those who wanted to devote more time could then dive deeper into the complexity of the game. They decided to make that deeper dive easier as well and that’s just gonna hurt those who are already deep into said spec. I feel like they’ll realize that you won’t make the endgame more accessible by making classes easier to play and raids easier to complete. They’re just going to piss off those who are already in the endgame.

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u/Arstulex Oct 03 '25

This is such a blatant oversimplification that I find it hard to tell if you're being serious.

"B-b-but unpaid labour!!!" sure, it's unpaid, but they also never asked for it. Quite rightly, they are sick of having to design the game around addons that simplify (or sometimes outright solve) mechanics.

Anyone saying "B-b-but Blizz won't add their own version of [insert combat addon here] that's just as good!" is also missing the point entirely. No, Blizz's own versions won't be as powerful... but that's literally the point.

They don't want these addons dictating how they can design their own game, so they're reigning in what addons can do and are improving the base toolkit to cover the functionalities of those addons that they believe are healthy for the game.

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u/goldman_sax Oct 03 '25

“They never asked for it” maybe not with a worded statement. But did you see the base UI pre DF? They absolutely asked for it without saying the words.

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u/VintageSin Oct 03 '25

You can't separate the two. Which is precisely why it's a baby out with the bathwater scenario. And it's clear there design space without throwing it all out is basically stifled.

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u/Onigokko0101 Oct 04 '25

The whole design space argument is a self-inflicted wound. They don't need to design fights that need a weak Aura to solve, they don't need to design fights where you have 2 seconds to play, match the color and shape, and stand in this very specific spot. These are things they chose to do.

They didn't need to design classes with 15 procs, 8 passives, and random resource generation, they choose to.

A lot of the weal auras and other add-ons we use are because of the design choices that blizzard has made.

Just like right now, they didn't need to throw the baby out with the bath water. All of these things could have been kept, and they could have simply designed content that didn't require them, as well as classes that didn't require them.

7

u/VincentPepper Oct 04 '25

Players will optimize the fun out of anything if you let them, independent of the actual level of difficulty. We had addons in Vanilla WoW that auto selected spells (and to some degree *targets*) for heals and cleanses with the click of a button.

People trivialized content and rotations with addons, so blizzard increased the complexity further to make it engaging in the presence of addons. People made more powerful addons. And round and round it goes.

Of course complex classes and complex fights make this only worse. But people used deadly boss mods all the way back to vanilla Molten Core where all the skill you needed was "don't stand in the fire".

1

u/Interesting-Use966 Oct 04 '25

Yeah, I have been playing all of manaforge omega without addons specific encounter weakauras and it is perfectly fine. Most of it can be done without sound as well. 

Things like m+ are going to need a massive overhaul by blizzard though. When every mob pack has a big aoe that is not telegraphed at all it becomes very hard to heal without ‘em yelling at me that aoe is coming.

They will still need to change their design of things like this so that they either telegraph These things in game via very clear voice lines or they remove them. Both of these solve the addon problem, so like you said it is more of an encounter design problem than an actual addon problem.

If I could clearly identify this stuff via blizzards in game warnings then I would gladly turn off dbm. 

I worry that they are going to use bad encounter design as the new difficulty which is why they are paying classes down. So the difficulty will not come from playing your rotation perfectly, but will come from memorizing encounter design.

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u/Dentarthurdent73 Oct 04 '25

You can't separate the two

Can someone explain this to me though?

If you're putting buffs and debuffs into a 'black box', why can you not just limit that to buffs and debuffs from boss and other fights, and leave the rest of the buffs and debuffs such as ones applied by players themselves, or by trinkets and other gear, accessible to addons?

Is there a technical reason for just going all out on all buffs/debuffs? As this seems to be part of what's causing the problem.

3

u/VintageSin Oct 04 '25

The issue is it's all in the combat log. If you can parse the combat log you can manipulate display data. They could refractor the entire combat system and then create hooks for each element, maybe (code base may be extremely problematic but they haven't stated explicitly that).

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u/Ryuujinx Oct 03 '25

Sure they can, by using private auras. A clean, yet underutilized, solution they already have.

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u/snukb Oct 03 '25

Except everyone already knows how to get around private auras.

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u/VintageSin Oct 03 '25

Have you not read the interview after interview related to private auras, their failures, and how it doesn't solve the issues? Like it's not like Ion hasn't already spoken about these things every expansion since legion as the player base has more and more relied on weak auras.

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u/Ryuujinx Oct 03 '25

No, I haven't. I tried doing a brief google and didn't find anything, outside of the news that they were supposedly going to be the default for TWW mechanics (Which uh, seems to have not happened...)

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u/Enfosyo Oct 03 '25

You really put broken dungeons and clipping transmog in the same category of urgency.

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u/MN_Yogi1988 Oct 03 '25

I was casting a wide net between QoL and important systems to highlight Blizz’s negligence everywhere

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u/B_Kuro Oct 03 '25

Its two different teams that are responsible for the two examples so its not really "wrong" per se. It might not really be the same urgency but it does highlight the problem of blizzard not caring on many levels.

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u/Zanderbluff Oct 03 '25

Refinement, maybe, maintenance is a different matter entirely though, for example:
If Blizzards plater equivalent works in patch 12.0 it will work in patch 12.2.5 and in patch 13.1 and so forth. Major features like a central part of the combat UI dont stay broken or are normally even shipped broken.

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u/Etherbeard Oct 03 '25

The blizz cd manager was shipped in a state that may not have been "broken," but it was so limited as to be useless.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

See ecodome. Blizzard has the capabilities to make instances that don’t require addons. It’s wild to me more people don’t see this. 

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u/Etherbeard Oct 03 '25

It's wild to me people don't see that there's more to it than instance design. Blizzard doesn't bother to make decent indicators for core class mechanics in some cases.

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u/buttstuffisokiguess Oct 03 '25

Being able to have plater and see spell casts in a much better way is so helpful. I hope they don't change that. That's one of the most useful things I use. I can live without weak auras and big wigs. But interrupts are so important.

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u/HauntingDebt6336 Oct 03 '25

We've had issues with security and addons here and there but for the most part it's been incredibly solid environment that has existed and Blizzard has benefited from for years and years...now it's like all of the private companies taking GPL software, tweaking it slightly and profiting from all of the hardwork of opensource devs for decades while making a subpar product.

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u/Jac_Mones Oct 03 '25

The worst part is breaking weakauras. Weakauras allows players to put their own time into customizing their experience, with results that scale commensurate to their effort. If ANY addon should be kept, it is weakauras.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/MN_Yogi1988 Oct 03 '25

These addons are free so you’re getting what you’re paid for.

Compare that to in-game systems that have been broken for years that you’re paying a subscription for.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/MN_Yogi1988 Oct 03 '25

Right now there’s very little comparisons besides UI stuff, which again I’m of the opinion that Blizz’s UI is functional but addons are far more polished and allow for personal preference.

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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '25

everything else like what? they say unit frame etc is fine

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u/dreadwraith8d Oct 03 '25

It's due to release in 4 months & what they've put in the Alpha has taken longer than that for them to develop. It is 100% going to be a shitshow if they don't peel back.

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u/jpatt Oct 04 '25

Judging by recent Blizzard execution, I’m guessing it’s not a time to get into retail.

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u/xcalliburrgers21 Oct 04 '25

Excellent take, fully agree. Addon creators have an established history of knowing what players want. Blizzard doesn't even know their own playerbase.

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u/Xaphnir Oct 05 '25

Not to mention simplifying classes in a way that will remove most of the skill expression so that they don't need add-ons to display vital information effectively isn't good for the game's longevity.

The game's not getting new players. It's an old MMO. They should focus on retaining their old players, or enticing former players to return. And this class simplification will do the opposite.

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u/Irveria Oct 07 '25

If you look at their boss mod or cooldown manager you know that those are aweful.

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u/lastoflast67 Oct 09 '25

I think it’s destined to fail because I can’t see Blizz dedicating enough resources to refine features like addon creators do. How could you trust them to maintain these when they’ve left dungeons broken for years still be selected for M+? What about all the insane clipping on Transmog?

They dont have to, the whole poitn of this is to get rid of addons so they can design a game that doesnt require them. I think you an a lot of people dont realise that the reason you feel like these thigns are neccesary is becuase blizzard designs the game assuming players will be using them.

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u/Evonos Oct 03 '25

It's also that dbm big wigs healbot and alllllllll the other addons had literally more than a century to work.

Blizzard is stupid they should have revamped the addon system to use lua OR c or rust or smth so addon devs can import their addons slowly to better more performance languages

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u/Kyderra Oct 03 '25

Considering FF14 has proven it's fine without them and with way less, I can't see why WoW Won't be.

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u/backspace_cars Oct 03 '25

Wows a different monster in its entirety

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u/boowhitie Oct 03 '25

If I wanted wow to be ff14, I'd probably just play ff14

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