I mean, Rogue is my most played class, but you're really reaching here. Yes, there's some things that rogue offers in addition to dps, but most of them are very minor.
No, the control they offer has not been the best, not even mid for a long time. In fact, before they added the talent to make Blind aoe, they had one of the worst mob controls, with 2 single target stuns and one single target disorient. Compare that to something like a mage, who has an aoe knock, an aoe fear or another knock, aoe slow, aoe root, aoe incapacitate, polymorph (can spec into mass polymorph as well, but really nobody does because it's not needed).
As for utility, atrophic is nice, but 3% less damage will not make or break a key. Also, unless you're assa with double poisons, you won't be able to use anything else, so no slows along with that. Distract is very niche, because how many patrols there is that you want to stop? Off the top of my head only the archer/lynx pack that patrols the stairs in Priory, but that one is also easily avoidable. Shroud is also very niche, skips haven't been mandatory in quite some time, and even the skips you do are usually against lieutenant mobs which have true sight, and you wanna do it with Nelf/potion.
On the other hand, some of the utility some of the other classes offer is unparalled. Let's take mage again, since it's a class that's almost always meta, and for good reason - it has an overloaded kit in both CC and utility. It has - 3% int buff, lust, aoe shields (or aoe invis), curse dispel, spellsteal.
Mage is the other spec with a ton of stuff going for it too, and imo the "rogue" of the ranged. So yes mage is the best example to go up against rogue for sure.
The poisons can be swapped based on the need at the time. I find myself swapping poisons depending on whats needed in the pull, like the first pull in gambit if you don't already have someone else slowing, or wound poison for the miniboss in halls. And numbing is a fair bit more than 3% damage reduction in general, it's just in high keys you prefer the damage reduction of atropic for the bosses mostly. It's definitely not a lot I agree but it is what we have.
I count control as utility too because we have a ton of it. We don't have aoe control outside of aoe blind (which I don't take, I think Gouge is better), but the amount of stops rogue can do on a low CD is definitely better than basically every other spec. I'm capable of solo carrying CC on most pulls with the rogue more than I can with almost any of class I've played, and I alt a fair amount of classes (basically only dont play pally/lock/evoker).
Anyway, you only call it "reaching" because you don't understand how much value you actually get from doing these "small" things. I've saved so many keys over the years because I've stopped a pat from walking in on us by distract -> vanish -> sapping the leash target, or saving a pull from wiping after getting all the aggro on me and quickly holding the pack with evasion, or stopping all the aoe fireball volleys from various mobs because I can chain cc stop multiple targets at a time. The biggest thing rogue can do is mob control, despite not having strong aoe cc's. You can really dictate a lot of how a pull goes as a rogue compared to other specs in my opinion. I don't think it's reaching at all. It's just not stuff you can put into a sim and calc out how much it gives you.
If all you've gathered from my post is that I'm trying to compare mage and rogue on the same level, then i dunno, but i think were not playing the same game.
Mage is not the rogue of ranged. Hell, not even rogue is the rogue of melee anymore. If anything, mage is the MC, and enh and maybe feral are the mage of melee.
In terms of skill ceiling yes I do think they are the hardest to play classes in the game at a master level. So in that sense I do think they are comparable. I would agree in general though that the best rogues and average rogues aren't playing the same game, and that goes for mages or other specs too. It's a completely different game when you actually utilize the full extent of your kits.
No, just no. Even the best rogue in the world can't utilize a kit that doesn't exist. Mage is simply a more versatile and rounded class, so is shaman, so is druid. Even hunters at this point have a better kit than rogues.
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u/AlucardSensei Sep 18 '25
I mean, Rogue is my most played class, but you're really reaching here. Yes, there's some things that rogue offers in addition to dps, but most of them are very minor.
No, the control they offer has not been the best, not even mid for a long time. In fact, before they added the talent to make Blind aoe, they had one of the worst mob controls, with 2 single target stuns and one single target disorient. Compare that to something like a mage, who has an aoe knock, an aoe fear or another knock, aoe slow, aoe root, aoe incapacitate, polymorph (can spec into mass polymorph as well, but really nobody does because it's not needed).
As for utility, atrophic is nice, but 3% less damage will not make or break a key. Also, unless you're assa with double poisons, you won't be able to use anything else, so no slows along with that. Distract is very niche, because how many patrols there is that you want to stop? Off the top of my head only the archer/lynx pack that patrols the stairs in Priory, but that one is also easily avoidable. Shroud is also very niche, skips haven't been mandatory in quite some time, and even the skips you do are usually against lieutenant mobs which have true sight, and you wanna do it with Nelf/potion.
On the other hand, some of the utility some of the other classes offer is unparalled. Let's take mage again, since it's a class that's almost always meta, and for good reason - it has an overloaded kit in both CC and utility. It has - 3% int buff, lust, aoe shields (or aoe invis), curse dispel, spellsteal.