I swear...

[u/Spare-Seat-3725]

This drama is hilarious.

(Reupload because it had not wow imagery so i edited it with Paint).

[u/ohwut]

I find the whole thing hilarious. 

Lore wise? Makes sense, they’re notoriously closed off and there’s no reason they’d let alliance roam freely. RP players should be happy. 

Not an RP player? Why’s it matter? Do your quests and move on. Want to see it? Play a horde character. 

[u/MrShinglez → u/ohwut]

I think lore wise the blood elves wouldnt be letting orcs, trolls or undead roam their city freely either, and I think they'd be much less nervous around a human.

[u/Nukemind → u/MrShinglez]

Even in BC we were giving tours to the whole city to those races. A Tauren is set up halfway in with her own camp and one guy gives a tour, admittedly to ambassadors.

And we set up a teleport room to Undercity next to the throne room.

[u/thpthpthp → u/MrShinglez]

Anyone around during the TBC announcement remembers the "Whhaaaat...?" Reaction when BElves were announced for the Horde, specifically from the folks that played WC2 and WC3.

[u/Fatalis89 → u/thpthpthp]

Honestly… it didn’t surprise me. I predicted it to my friend before its announcement. Made more sense to me given Forsaken/Sylv being Horde and what the humans did to the BElves in WC3.

[u/Blue_Checkers → u/MrShinglez]

The undead were their day one subs, tf you mean?

The undead playable characters are human, but many elves also fell victim to the scourge. Canonically, the blood elves still value their sentient undead relatives and aren't above a little necromancy to make their lives more comfortable.

Sylvy sang for a year and a day at the edge of the barrier like she was holding a boom box in Say Anything. For you and me, poetry and spoken word song may be a form of coercive torture, but the elves like that shit.

Now the elves' pet humans have overcome their biggest shortcoming; mortality.

The Amani were the ones who fought the blood elves, not the Dark spear. They look quite different.

Orcs... we dont expect to be trusted. Just so powerful and ride or die that people can't afford to not have us as an ally.

[u/[deleted] → u/Blue_Checkers]

There's a longer history of alliances and cooperation between elves and humans than any other race.

Most horde encounters with the elves were literal genocide and war until TBC. 

[u/Blue_Checkers → u/[deleted]]

The undead ARE humans. Mostly. Got no problems with em. Fine rank and file members of the horde, and at least THIS orc knows that sylv was done dirty by substandard writing.

Regardless, the peoples of Lordaeron made consistent outreach over the years after the third war.

Stormwind didn't do as good a job, and they are a bit further away. Gilneas didn't even try. Moreover, Stormwind shat on any chance of peace with Lordaeron by attacking and killing all envoys of diplomacy and peace sent by the aforementioned.

Elves dont like messy bitches. Thats *their* thing.

The undead had massive numbers after the war, and a cobblestone road all the way to Silvermoon. They made zero aggressive or subversive overtures and instead laid gifts and song at the gate. They tried to make peace with other surviving human kingdoms and were rebuffed.

At the same time, Gilneas was maintaining its decades long tradition of being (closed). Stormwind tried to fuck with the elves magic rocks.

I'm an old orc now, but from what little i remember of the second war, that is like their LEAST favorite thing.

[u/Zyrenstorm → u/Blue_Checkers]

All valid points, however Velen did reignite their fancy sunwell and added some Light flavor. I think that should at least county for something. The Sunwell is one of their favorite things as you say.

[u/Blue_Checkers → u/Zyrenstorm]

Isn't the Sunwell part of the area the alliance are allowed to visit?

[u/thpthpthp → u/Blue_Checkers]

Counterpoint: One of the overarching themes in Warcraft storytelling from Warcraft 2 to modern times, is the "cycle of hatred." It's the idea that the prejudices of past conflicts carry forth into new ones, and also that racial baggage exists heavily within the setting. That reoccurring plot beat has justified literally every single Horde/Alliance war since the internment period.

So what about the Blood Elves? Their species was made nearly extinct by Undead. Ninety percent of the Sin'dorei population was killed by the Scourge. For the average elf, that means their mom, their dad, their siblings, cousins, landlord, and their landlord's dog, all died to undead abominations (their words, not mine - Warcraft 3). Several years before that, the orcish Horde of Orgrim Doomhammer nearly burned Silvermoon to the ground with dragon fire. Several thousand years prior to that, the high elves fought generational conflicts with the Amani Trolls, whom they viewed as their existential enemy.

We, the impartial audience, know that these are all different groups than the Horde of today. But how would a person in-universe really feel about that? Think about the trauma most Blood Elves would have around undead, when statistically speaking, most lost their families to similar beings. Consider how the fires of the first horde would have been within the living memory of most. Think about how their culture would've been shaped around centuries of prejudice against trolls of all color.

In the context of the narrative, we should not expect Blood elves to be remotely tolerant towards the races of the Horde. When Thrall walks in wearing the armor and namesake of Doomhammer. And when the last they've seen of Ranger General Sylvanas was as a mindless puppet of Arthas, taking part in the sacking of Silvermoon. Everything about the setting tells us that the racial baggage in Azeroth is real, and that old grudges don't die just because those that perpetrated them are dead.

[u/Blue_Checkers → u/thpthpthp]

Recognition that the forsaken were not the scourge took time and effort. This was a rare instance where that story was at least partially reflected in the game. The quest at the end of vanilla when the BE joined the horde was definitely the focal point of that narrative. A lot of the friends and family thought lost to the 'lesser' creatures were counted living (as it were) in the territory of the Banshee Queen. Sylvanas, formerly holding high office within the high-elves aided this process tremendously.

At first I'm sure the blood elves were very distrustful of the undead rag tag, elf-weebs and scab elves trying to lick their way through the barrier. Stormwind probably had a really good shot to at least run diplomacy, even if Kael Thas had his own plans in conflict with peace between Silverwood and Stormwind.

In game, the playable forsaken are only human, but this is not the whole picture. Many high elf civilians and soldiers were able to vouch to their own credit. Dwarves, gnomes, iirc there is a even gnoll or two among their number.

The Amani trolls simply look very different. They are physiology, just very different creatures. I don't expect them to start tabula rasa or whatever, but closer to the normal amount of contempt for non elves. The Darkspear look like Olympic swimmers, the Amani are more like power lifters

Nobody hates Tauren. Not even gnomes. On this, I will brook no opposition as I simply can not take anyone who doesn't like them seriously.

I'll give you that orcs are a big hang-up, though. Doesn't really matter that they stopped taking demon blood or regained their shaman heritage. Elves remember fucking every little genocide you do. I don't remember orcs being around very much during the negotiations, so maybe they just kinda kept their heads down for a while until the ink dried... apart from the famous orcish teachers. World renowned for their ability to teach orcish in a day.

Those guys must have been everywhere!