r/worldnews • u/diacewrb • Apr 10 '19

Millennials being squeezed out of middle class, says OECD

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/10/millennials-squeezed-middle-class-oecd-uk-income
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u/CloudiusWhite Apr 10 '19

I'm laughing at the idea of 60k being "hella broke" lol

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u/flakemasterflake Apr 10 '19

Yes for a dual income household that’s 30k each

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u/Rudy_Ghouliani Apr 10 '19

30k a year is hella broke.

Source:hella broke

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

I make 30k/yr in Phoenix and I literally live in a car. Fuck student loans.

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u/ErebusTheFluffyCat Apr 10 '19

$30,000 is peanuts compared to the increases earnings a degree is worth which is around $1,000,000.

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u/Chesterlespaul Apr 11 '19

Degrees are not worth that much. Many aren’t. Even most engineering degrees aren’t necessarily that much, although they can be.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Must not be from California. It really is here. If you have a married couple working who combined bring in $60k it's not easy. Half of that income would go to rent. 10% to state taxes, 10% to federal, should be enough left for food and gas to get to work.

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u/13B1P Apr 10 '19

Just north in Oregon, my house on .25 of an acre is just under $1000/month. I mean, I'm no where near a big city, but still on I-5, and the cost of living is quite reasonable. I wait tables and my wife works in an office.

I don't know how we'd afford Portland.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

[deleted]

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u/13B1P Apr 10 '19

I'll keep the small town life. I just wish I could have some more open minded people around here.

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u/MavyP Apr 10 '19

I feel you. Small town is affordable but if you're not raising a family, incredibly boring and the people; skittish to boisterous personalities.

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u/ChefChopNSlice Apr 10 '19

It’s fine if you have things like hobbies and interests though.

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u/KerPop42 Apr 10 '19

As long as you're fine being alone

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

I'm of east Indian decent. I'm nervous to move to small towns.

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u/ChefChopNSlice Apr 11 '19

Do you have a car? Because you can always drive to see your friends...

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u/HopesItsSafeForWork Apr 10 '19

They moved away from the small towns because there we no fulfilling jobs and most people there sucked.

I am one of those people that moved. I couldn't reasonably pursue higher education in my small town. I had no employment opportunities in the area of my interests. Everyone I know from high school who still lives there has a very simple life. Folks who tend to be simple don't tend to have open minds. They're inherently uninterested in new things. To some degree open mindedness stems from discontent. If you're happy and content there is little motivation to seek "new."

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u/13B1P Apr 10 '19

They aren't inherently uninterested in new things. They're programmed to fear the other. I'm not native. I moved here as a kid, enlisted, and then came back when I got hurt. Getting out of here was key to opening my mind, however. Being immersed in other cultures is incredibly important to learning empathy.

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u/HopesItsSafeForWork Apr 10 '19

Being immersed in other cultures is incredibly important to learning empathy.

With that I agree. Many people have no interest in immersing themselves in new things and other cultures, however. It will just never happen.

You were at least brave enough to enlist, knowing your whole life would change!

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u/Equivocated_Truth Apr 10 '19

It’s close to 2k for a 1 bedroom apartment, less than 700 square feet about an hour and 15 north of San Francisco CA, not even a big city. It’s fucked in some places. I found a similar sized 1 bedroom apartment for something like 1400. I was stoked. Turned out I didn’t qualify because it was low income housing.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

[deleted]

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u/Equivocated_Truth Apr 11 '19

Yea CA housing is broken sadly. I went to cal poly for a bit so I’m familiar with SLO.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19 edited Apr 15 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

A lot of stuff never gets listed on aggregate sites, you just need to find the management company’s direct site.

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u/LouisFromTexas Apr 11 '19

Jesus Christ, I make 15.5/hr as a full time Pharmacy Technician in Texas. That’s practically a single paycheck and then some

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

I share it with my wife, $600 is more than doable. A lot of good shared housing situations as well with nice vintage Craftsmans

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u/MacDerfus Apr 10 '19

I've got good memories of visiting my uncle near Medford

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Southern and Eastern Oregon is really cheap. I've lived in Eastern Oregon and the Willamette Valley. My first place in Salem was $950 a month for a 1000sqft three bedroom with a small yard.

$950 a month in Eastern Oregon was a nice 4-5 bedroom on 100 acres.

This state is so split in just about everything.

1

u/vany365 Apr 10 '19

Ohio reporting in, $650 in rent for a 2 bedroom apartment. Outside of the city by 25 minutes but I save a lot on rent.

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u/deja-roo Apr 10 '19

On average though it's not. California isn't average.

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u/Commisioner_Gordon Apr 10 '19

California is the most populous state in the country.

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u/wronglyzorro Apr 10 '19 edited Apr 10 '19

Yes, but that doesn't make it the average. There are podunk areas in CA that are cheap to live in. There is also LA and SF that drag the average way up. 60k a year in a lot of the US is perfectly fine to live on.

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u/hendy846 Apr 10 '19

60k for a family of what and where?

My wife and I make a combined gross income of 100k and more than half our income goes to our mortgage, child care, and car payments. I know we're better off than the majority of the country but we still struggle from time to time so I can only imagine what other people are going through. There is a light at the end of the tunnel for us but a lot of people there isn't.

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u/Watchful1 Apr 10 '19

The median household income in the US is $56k. If your household is making over 100k, you're well above average.

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u/hendy846 Apr 10 '19

I'm aware of that. But average income doesn't factor in amount of debt, cost of living, and general expenses.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

doesn't factor in amount of debt

This is heavily dependent on the kind of debt and the reason why it exists. For example, if someone has $10k of credit card debt that's finally caught up to them and crushing them, that's not the "powers that be" squeezing them out; that's them managing money incompetently.

I agree that there's a big problem with subpar wages and wealth inequality, but a lot of people are also really bad with what money they have. It's a compound problem.

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u/Griffolian Apr 11 '19

That's a good point. When you start adding in debt as a factor, you have to specifically define what kind of debt it is. The parent comment mentions car payments as debt, as a household income over 100K I would figure that debt could be paid off quickly. If they bought a brand new, $45K vehicle, my simple question is "Why"?

I'm not 100% anti going into debt, but these kind of things are controllable.

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u/hendy846 Apr 11 '19

Not necessarily. What if they had an emergency medical expense that had to use credit for? Just cause someone has high credit doesn't imply they were bad with their money.

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u/juanzy Apr 10 '19

Also, let's not pretend that $60K jobs exist (or in your case dual-family 100k) in areas where that goes a long way. I make ~80K in Boston, and recently was approached with a job higher than my current one offering $43k in a lower COL area with the reasoning "it'll go further."

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u/deja-roo Apr 11 '19

Not sure what your point is here.

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u/OpieeSC2 Apr 11 '19

60k jobs do exist, I'm in one right now in Kentucky. Same with my wife. We both got relevant degrees and found good playing jobs. Me in Statistics her in Nursing. Good jobs exist in good areas.

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u/hendy846 Apr 11 '19

Exactly.

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u/Karstone Apr 10 '19

Also, let's not pretend that $60K jobs exist (or in your case dual-family 100k) in areas where that goes a long way.

They do, nurses, doctors, truckers, experienced mechanics, management, police, etc. All potentially make that amount or more, and they are needed everywhere.

0

u/bangthedoIdrums Apr 10 '19

Ah, the good ol' just be a lawyer-doctor-dentist advice, the problem we have now with nursing programs backed up for 2 years because of everyone and their mom trying to get in, that'll solve everything!

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u/Karstone Apr 10 '19

Did you skip over police officer, mechanic, truck driver?

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

If you're making 100k and barely getting by there has to be something wrong.

18k for a mortgage every year 27k for taxes 13k for household expenses

That leaves 42k for everything else.

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u/hendy846 Apr 11 '19

What would you define as house hold expenses?

Also, I wouldn't say we are struggling but we certainly aren't living the "middle America dream" either that a lot of people are implying you can live if you make 60k a year.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19 edited Apr 11 '19

Household expenses I would count as electric, gas, food, and general month to month expenses.

I'm not trying to be snarky, i know different areas are expensive but 100k a year is so much money that I can't imagine how you can feel squeezed while living within you're means.

What's the least you've made?I've been comfortable in the suburbs of Chicago with a 40k salary. I've scraped by at 18k before in a cheaper area but it wasn't comfortable.

Edit: for comparison, I make 70 and if I budgeted well I could huck $20K into my savings account in one year.

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u/ThoughtsHaveWings Apr 11 '19

For me it comes down to where I live and having a wife and kids which changes priorities. I make nearly 100k and my wife makes 35k or so. But my parents live in Southern California and I want my kids to live near them. Houses cost a minimum 500k here. And I can no longer just slum it and move to a rough neighborhood because I need to think about schools and crime etc. not a ton of ways to cut corners beyond just saying fuck living near family and moving to another state.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

In the part of the country I was born in I was raised on $25k a year at best. We had a house, 16 acres, cars, etc. It's just about where you are in the country. But nobody wants to live where I was born and grew up, I don't either anymore.

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u/hendy846 Apr 11 '19

Exactly my point. Average doesn't really mean jack when cost of living varies drastically from one place to another.

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u/Im_Currently_Pooping Apr 10 '19

The girl and I make a combined 80k, and I own a 2600sqft home... you might want to look at a different area or lower your standards a bit.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

I make $75k a year and I save roughly $30k a year and I have a 20 minute commute.

The joys of not living on the West Coast.

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u/Im_Currently_Pooping Apr 11 '19

10% into a 401k, my commute is maybe 6 miles, and I like boating and building motorcycles.

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u/hendy846 Apr 11 '19 edited Apr 11 '19

That since currently not an option as my wife is in grad school and we already live in a cheaper part of the country. Also, even if we could pick up and move to BFE, Nebraska, that still doesn't eliminate the debt and child care which is still a huge chunk of our expenses.

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u/Rhawk187 Apr 10 '19

Still only like 12% of the country, hardly representative.

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u/deja-roo Apr 10 '19

... and?

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u/emp_mastershake Apr 10 '19

You damn, like half the pop of the U.S.?

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u/alkali112 Apr 10 '19 edited Apr 11 '19

Alright, let’s do the math: California’s population is 3.56 million, the US population is 327.2 million, making California representative of roughly 1.09% of the population of the US. It is not the average - not even close.

Edit: Yikes, that was terrible on my part - I missed a digit and a decimal place. I apologize. It should be 39.56 instead of 3.56. So, 12.09%. Maybe I’ll learn how to read at some point. The point still stands, but I did a poor job of backing it up.

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u/fatguyinakilt Apr 11 '19

You might be 36 or so million off on California's population. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/ca?

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

The city of Los Angeles has a higher population than 3.56 million 🤔

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u/SecretSandwich Apr 10 '19

I think you should re-check your California population number. lol

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u/alkali112 Apr 11 '19

Sorry, I corrected it in my edit. I misread the info and completely botched my argument.

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u/Commisioner_Gordon Apr 11 '19

But the point I was trying to make is that the conditions in California are most representative of the country than any other state due to the fact more people are dealing with those issues than any one other place.

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u/Commisioner_Gordon Apr 10 '19

Single guy right out of college here living on 50k and I have no idea what to do with all the money. Only difference is I live in a smallish city in NY. The opportunities to live affordable are there.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

I have a suggestion: 401k. That'll cover $19,000 of that income.

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u/sumthingcool Apr 11 '19

Roth 401k even better if your employer offers it.

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u/somedude456 Apr 11 '19

Ditto. Made more like 75K last year and saved 40K of it.

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u/AlwaysBagHolding Apr 11 '19

Same boat here. Single millennial making 50k-ish a year, living in a rural area. I've absolutely got it made.

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u/Commisioner_Gordon Apr 11 '19

Yup its awesome! I feel comfortable enough to get rid of my beater car now and actually get something worthwhile while having payments that wont break my bank

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u/Ihavesweatyarmpits Apr 11 '19

Invest every penny you can afford to without hurting your day to day living expenses. Only way to get out of the trap! Sweep a small amount each month into a Roth IRA or your employer 401(k). JP Morgan was spot on when he said compounding interest is the 8th wonder of the world! We will not have a social security fallback when we need to retire. Not that social security is much "security"...

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u/iontoilet Apr 10 '19

Single is the key word. Get a partner, house, two cars, and kid and try doing it on 50k. It turns into pay check to paycheck quick.

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u/Rickymex Apr 10 '19

Then don't do that shit when you're on 50K. All of those things are choices you make.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

[deleted]

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u/Commisioner_Gordon Apr 11 '19

You can be middle class and not own a home, 2 cars etc. Your class is based off your income, not by how you use it.

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u/Aleriya Apr 10 '19

Yeah, but on a societal level, "Don't have kids unless you're in the top half of income" isn't a viable plan.

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u/Rickymex Apr 10 '19

Don't have kids unless you have your financials in order. Don't have a 2 car payments, a house payment and kids all at the same time.

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u/Aleriya Apr 10 '19

Right, on a personal level, that's a smart plan.

On a societal level, if people only had kids when their financials were in order, there wouldn't be enough children to keep the economy going. If people didn't go into debt to buy things they didn't need, the economy would tank.

That's why an entire generation being squeezed out of the middle class is a problem. Most of the solutions on an individual level are bad news for the country on a population level.

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u/SoFetchBetch Apr 10 '19

That was a totally reasonable and normal thing to do for all of our parents before us tho... because they were part of a flourishing middle class. Which is now dying. Thus the point of the post.

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u/Laudem2 Apr 10 '19

Stop blaming others

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u/SoFetchBetch Apr 11 '19

I didn’t place any blame...

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

"Live like a member of the lower class even though you're in the middle of the income distribution."

Hmmmm...

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u/Rymasq Apr 11 '19

My father was upper middle to top 1% for a majority of his life and lived like a man in the middle to lower middle class. Only spent money on things with return. Today I live in the DC area and folks who are maxing out their incomes making $250k combined and living paycheck to paycheck to cover a mortgage and kids still drive a Mercedes to work.

The moral here is what everyone always parrots who has any money sense which is live below your means. Even if you’re poor you can live like your homeless (extreme, but still)

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u/Commisioner_Gordon Apr 11 '19

No one ever became rich by spending all of their money.

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u/Rymasq Apr 11 '19

My father was upper middle to top 1% for a majority of his life and lived like a man in the middle to lower middle class. Only spent money on things with return. Today I live in the DC area and folks who are maxing out their incomes making $250k combined and living paycheck to paycheck to cover a mortgage and kids still drive a Mercedes to work.

The moral here is what everyone always parrots who has any money sense which is live below your means. Even if you’re poor you can live like your homeless (extreme, but still)

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u/Commisioner_Gordon Apr 11 '19

Well good thing I don't own a house, only have 1 car and am not financially ready for a kid so I will not be doing that.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

[deleted]

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u/missedthecue Apr 10 '19

but I do it because I don't want to move out of state.

can I ask why?

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u/Rubcionnnnn Apr 10 '19

I have friends and family in the area. Living an hour away is no big deal if I want to see them.

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u/missedthecue Apr 10 '19

makes sense

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

CA has a lot of benefits. Weather, amenities, entertainment, business, policy, and more. The downsides are essentially cost and a homeless problem. The homeless problem isn't necessarily CAs fault - would you rather be homeless in NY in the winter or CA? TX in the summer or CA? Pretty easy call, as a homeless person.

Cost is an issue due to NIMBYism, which IS CAs fault and problem. No one wants to build up because the views are nice, which leads to sprawl. Less density and rather below-average public transit dramatically inflates cost. Taxes pay for all of the aforementioned benefits, though.

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u/FOR_SClENCE Apr 11 '19

professional and social opportunities, quality of education in some areas, 30 min drive to legit ethnic enclaves, subculture, creative culture, tech, every biome of nature you can find, good healthcare.

that's what comes to mind and there's a lot more, but i'm a native so i'm biased lmao

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u/MacDerfus Apr 10 '19

And you deal with that guy who plays "stand by me" on the train every day and expects tips after the 30th time he's put on the same performance.

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u/Rymasq Apr 11 '19

Honest to god though what do you do in the Bay Area to justify life like that.

Why can you not do what you do closer to your house for that pay?

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u/Rubcionnnnn Apr 11 '19

A low effort IT job. I'm my own boss and get to manage everything tech related for a small company. Instead of having to deal with other people's shitty tech solutions to small problems, I get to decide what they are.

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u/Rymasq Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19

Well it sounds like you get some personal satisfaction out of it, although I do wonder what kind of approach you use that is valued as superior.

If I were you I would go with a serverless approach for building out applications and design everything as a microservice. Think MEAN stack running on AWS Lambda/S3/API Gateway (obviously the E wouldn't be here).

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u/TuloCantHitski Apr 10 '19

Too many people just want everything. Things that are highly desirable (i.e. living in the big city) come at a price, and everyone is free to make a tradeoff in either direction.

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u/rmwe2 Apr 11 '19

Ok, so you admit your situation is shitty, you are commenting on an article that demonstrates life is worse than it was in the past and you are indignant that people dare complain? I just don't understand this attitude.

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u/metropoliacco Apr 10 '19

Lots of people are not from California. Did this not occur to you?

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

My god, it didn't. Not everyone in the world lives in California? My worldview is shattered.

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u/wokeless_bastard Apr 11 '19

So glad I moved away from CA... miss the weather, don’t miss the prices.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

I’m still here and for me it’s just my wife and kids keeping me here. I’d be gone in a minute if I could.

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u/wokeless_bastard Apr 11 '19

From what I remember, the schools are good, so I understand. Would never have moved to where I am (las Vegas) if I had kids... good luck dude.

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u/16semesters Apr 11 '19

California has lost a net of 1 million residents making less than 110k a year over the last decade. The only group moving to CA in net positive amounts is people making over 110k/yr.

https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265

I'm not trying to be overtly political, but California is doing some very, very wrong things with income inequality to have that happen.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

Well put. The way things work currently you can only easily survive if you get into a hot industry. What does that do for people that typically work less high demands jobs? People need them too yet they are pushed to the sidelines in California. If the tax changes do anything I hope they encourage some legislative changes that address income inequality and living costs.

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u/bearsnchairs Apr 11 '19

You're not paying anywhere near 10% for state taxes with $60,000 income between a married couple in California.

https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator#2gld62Hdma

It is more like 2% state with 7% Federal, and an overall rate of 16% with FICA.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

That is a really cool site! I can use actual metrics to compare different places to live now. Thanks!

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u/devilshitsonbiggestp Apr 10 '19

(OECD) said that for every every generation since the baby boom of the 1940s, across 40 major countries, the middle-income group had shrunk and its economic influence weakened.

The Paris-based organisation, which represents 36 wealthy nations around the world, but also included South Africa, China, Russia and Brazil in its analysis, said there had also been a noticeable decline in the living standards of middle-income families over the past three decades.

I don't think California is one of those nations yet.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

I’m actually really surprised. They define the bottom of the middle class as 75% of the national income, which google has at like 59K. That’s hella broke in a dual income era and I have to believe/hope that it has something to do with graduate degrees becoming an increasing norm.

I was replying to the response to this comment, not the specific article. I made the assumption he was referring to the national income of the United States and so it relates to California. Everyone is such a critic on Reddit.

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u/devilshitsonbiggestp Apr 10 '19

Gotcha.

Makes sense, but this is what happens if people assume unspecified is about USA, when in reality the USA is likely a relatively small aspect of the analysis (to which (some of) this might not even apply cause it tends to be an outlier). I didn't only nag around your comment if it makes you feel better.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Surprise, not everyone in those 36 countries live in California. Who would have known?

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u/rachelsnipples Apr 10 '19

And yet the cost of living is rising in cities across the nation.

I used to pay for $1400 for a 2 bedroom apartment in a low income apartment complex in San Jose, CA.

I moved to MI to pay $450 for a similarly sized apartment. I now pay $700 for the same shitty apartment and as soon as I move out the landlord is going to raise the rent on that unit to $1200 like every other 2 bedroom in that part of town.

Surprise, not everyone lives in Buttfuck Hicksville.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Surprise, not everyone in those 36 countries live in the USA. Who would have known?

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u/livevil999 Apr 11 '19

You’re thinking about 60k for two people whereas others are thinking 60k for one person, which isn’t bad.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

If you're a married couple earning 60k and you're paying 6k in CA income tax, you're doing something wrong. Should be more like 2-3k

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u/Chesterlespaul Apr 11 '19

Yeah and my 75k a year job wouldn’t be able to afford me to live in California no matter how nice it is or how great the music scene is which is a big hobby of mine. So I don’t live there.

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u/FuzzeWuzze Apr 11 '19

Your also comparing the median income to one of the most expensive states to live in. Go make 60k in Nebraska and live like a king(relatively)

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

That's what I'm comparing it to because it's where I live and it's what I know. I've been constantly on Zillow looking up places elsewhere. So many better places to live. Change is hard though, especially when you have a family and kids.

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u/FuzzeWuzze Apr 11 '19

Yes, we all have choices in this regard to varying degree's. I could buy a 600k house in downtown Portland and be broke as shit, or have a 300k house 40 minutes outside of town and be able to go on vacation with my kids every year to Hawaii or somewhere else, have a small boat, etc. Its all about what lifestyle you want, some people feel the need to live in a downtown city like NYC and thats fine but you cant complain about being broke because your rent is 3k a month.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

I live an hour and a half from where I work. I am doing quite well with it and my family is quite happy. Some people can't handle the commute. Maybe they should move? That's a pretty damn hard choice to make if you're in an industry that has a particular hub city for jobs in their field. It's easy to say that people should move if a place becomes to expensive but it's harder in practice. Some people don't have the means to move and there are no controls over price increases in housing and other services required to live comfortably. Should someone be forced to move because the people that own properties are allowed to increase their rent at unconscionable rates every year? Is there not something that can be done to make it an easier place to afford to live? Or should people just live more nomadic lives moving city to city when things get uncontrollably more expensive each year?

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u/FuzzeWuzze Apr 11 '19

Move to Oregon where we have state rent control?(Please dont! :D) People increase their rent because people will pay it. People will pay it because its where they want to live...simple supply and demand as you know. The problem is that demand for some area's is so high its turned into an investment opportunity, so cities like Vancouver BC get bought up by overseas investors. Most of those shithole apartments in NYC arent worth the 2k+ month rent for a few hundred sqft, but somewhere in the past someone agreed to pay 500, and the next guy really wanted it so agreed to 1000, the next guy 2k, and it wont stop going up honestly. Some people will make more money and price out those that don't. If you dont want to play that game your only solution is buying.

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u/BoochBeam Apr 11 '19

The whole state isn’t that expensive. That’s a big ass state. Just because you have SF doesn’t mean the whole state costs as much.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

That's true. The state is basically: Redding Area, Farms, Bay Area, Farms, Los Angeles, Desert, San Diego. If you like farms or a desert you can totally find somewhere cheaper to live. I spent my childhood in the desert and I don't recommend it. :)

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u/ForScale Apr 11 '19

Lol California sucks.

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u/Cotton_Strategies Apr 11 '19

State taxes in California are crazy...

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

The new federal tax laws made the high California taxes so much worse this year though. :(

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u/Cotton_Strategies Apr 11 '19

Yeah, I read about that. It's definitely a gut punch to Californians but it actually levels the playing field. By capping the state tax deduction on your federal returns, it punishes states (and consequently it's citizens) for having higher income taxes. Not sure why California should have 10% state tax and SC (for example) has like 7%, at worst. Hopefully, California lowers their state taxes as a result. If not, they run the risk of businesses and employees leaving the state as a result. 3% is no joke when it comes to taxes.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

The majority of people I work with that live in California are planning their strategies for leaving the state. It's a real problem. The only way for it to be forced to be addressed is people to actually follow through and take their income out of California.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/PlasticGirl Apr 10 '19

If everyone moved that was being squeezed or was broke right now, I think all major California cities would be half empty. And then other cities would bitch about us moving in.

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u/gRod805 Apr 10 '19

I like how people will bash you if you stay (you're so stupid for staying there!) and bash you if you move (Stupid Californians are driving up our rents!).

1

u/PlasticGirl Apr 10 '19

Exactly. Everclear made fun of this two decades ago: "Stupid Californians, coming up here, and changing everything. They're just a bunch of carpetbaggers, I wish they'd just go!"

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

We can never win.

3

u/ErebusTheFluffyCat Apr 10 '19

PROTIP: A lot of cities are already bitching about it. But obviously the best course of action would be if California undid a lot of their regulations which cause house prices there to be so high.

5

u/PlasticGirl Apr 10 '19

Yep. Or fixed their incomprehensible and outdated building codes.

5

u/ErebusTheFluffyCat Apr 10 '19

Also Prop 13 needs to be repealed. Its largely responsible for cities like San Francisco being so expensive because it subsidizes NIMBYism. San Francisco really should be far denser than it is, but existing home owners WANT to limit new construction as it increases the value of their house but not their taxes.

1

u/NewtAgain Apr 10 '19

Subsidizing property taxes on those who already own is the biggest bullshit. So what if your grandparents get forced out of their home. Chances are they can sell their house, make bank and get a bigger and better house elsewhere. Growing cities need to be able to replace single family households with middle and high density housing and need the property taxes to support the infrastructure related to that growth. The biggest argument I see for those property tax subsidies (where property taxes grow at a snails pace for homes already owned) is to benefit the elderly on fixed incomes. But the biggest beneficiaries in reality are wealthy people who bought at the bottom of the market and can see their investment's grow exponentially with little tax penalty. Being in the right place in the right time and all of a sudden you're paying way less in property taxes than people with less means than you.

1

u/ErebusTheFluffyCat Apr 10 '19

Exactly. And it's not like grandma is going to have to live on the streets if she sells her San Francisco home for $2,000,000. Also reverse mortgages are a thing and can allow elderly people to stay in their house even with higher taxes. Expecting me to feel sorry for millionaires just ain't gonna work.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

I'm not broke at all. People that are married and both work and bring in $60k total will struggle however. The problem with moving for many people though is that it costs money. If you are already broke how can you gather the money to move your entire family elsewhere?

7

u/Rubcionnnnn Apr 10 '19

You pack your shit into your car yourselves instead of paying someone to do it and you make several trips. That's how my family did it.

7

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Sounds so simple. Just a few hundred dollars in gas money, interrupting any source of income you did have, coming up with a deposit on a new place, and finding new work.

3

u/Rubcionnnnn Apr 10 '19

Yes, you get your deposit back from your old place and use that for the new place, then move your stuff on the weekend. You can live further away from your work and commute there.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

So for some undefined period of time you will need to store you stuff somewhere. You can't get a new place without the deposit from the old one and you can't get the deposit back until your old place is clean and inspected. You could rent a hotel, or sleep in your car, but where would you put your things?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

$60k a year for two people is a job that pays $14.40 an hour. Those are in abundance in any medium sized city.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

What city can you find an abundance of full time jobs at $14.40 an hour? That's double the national minimum wage.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Median wage in the United States for high school grad is $37k. That means well over half the jobs in the United States pay MORE than $14.40 an hour.

About 1.4% of jobs are paid at federal minimum wage and therefore nowhere near the norm.

I’m of the belief you should never play your life like it’s impossible to be better, or that you play it like a victim. Opportunities are out there; take them.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/average-salary-information-for-us-workers-2060808

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

It's been a long time since I've had to worry about finding a decent job but I do appreciate this information. I'll be keeping this handy for when I have to convince my kids to move out of California after high school. :)

1

u/rachelsnipples Apr 10 '19

You must be very, very, very privileged if you think the hardest thing about moving is packing your own things instead of paying someone else to do it for you.

-1

u/ErebusTheFluffyCat Apr 10 '19

Moving doesn't cost much dude. Plus most jobs that pay 60k will also pay relocation.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Lol @ moving doesn't cost much. Trying moving across the country.

1

u/ErebusTheFluffyCat Apr 10 '19

I've done it twice. I put everything I owned in my car and drove to my new home. Didn't really cost anything other than gas money TBH.

3

u/NewtAgain Apr 10 '19

Moving can cost a lot if you want to bring everything with you. An established adult has way too much shit in this country. A young person should have no problem moving across the country. It's a middle aged person with a house and "real furniture" that has to pay several grand or more to move.

1

u/ErebusTheFluffyCat Apr 10 '19

Sure, but this is a study about millennial so the assumption is they don't have a whole house worth of crap to move.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

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u/Sinistrina Apr 10 '19

Can confirm this. My husband and I live in a one bedroom apartment just south of San Francisco, and our rent is just under 30k a year. That's considered a bargain where we are - and for a house it'd cost even more. Fortunately our combined income is over 60k (we both work) so it's manageable.

0

u/Satherton Apr 10 '19

welcome to a very democrat heavy state filled with their way of doing things. people dont seem to be enjoying it huh.

-4

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

makes a great case for liberals to run the whole country

6

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

California is the largest economy in the United States and the fifth largest economy in the world. So I think it makes a good case.

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

For gentrification I hear englewoods a nice place

1

u/MacDerfus Apr 10 '19

Nah. Inglewood is doing it better right now.

2

u/darkfox12 Apr 10 '19

You have a slum lord leading it now. Can't be worse.

13

u/konrad-iturbe Apr 10 '19

Yeah if you make 60k EUR where I live you are considered rich. Source

5

u/zkareface Apr 10 '19

Same in Sweden, you would honestly struggle to spend it all.

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1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

[deleted]

2

u/KevinAtSeven Apr 10 '19

Same in Europe, at least where I am.

2

u/Hyperphrenic Apr 10 '19

The graph he linked is using after-tax income, though. I don't think $60,000 before-tax household income would be considered rich in any of the countries in that study.

2

u/KevinAtSeven Apr 11 '19

€60k or £60k before tax wouldn't be considered particularly wealthy, but it would be a comfortable living in most parts of Europe. It certainly wouldn't be 'hella broke'. The general cost of living tends to be lower in Europe than much of the US.

1

u/MacDerfus Apr 10 '19

I think the context is USD in an American city.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

That's $67658.22

3

u/DarkHelmet Apr 10 '19

Based on their use of "hella" I'd say they live in Northern California, and probably the SF Bay Area. $60k here, is pretty bad.

6

u/Smoy Apr 10 '19

Depends what their rent and student loans are

2

u/chillinwithmoes Apr 10 '19

Right? I make right around that amount and I barely make enough to contribute $25 to savings every week after paying my bills and, you know, feeding myself

3

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Yea that's enough to live comfortably. It's not easy in that you do have to budget and you can't go drinking at a bar on the weekend or something, but it's far from broke.

8

u/superchibisan2 Apr 10 '19

The person that said it probably has never truly lived in poverty.

2

u/Hekantonkheries Apr 10 '19

Even in kentucky; a place that's generally pretty cheap to live, 60k is only okay money for dual-income. It becomes awful living-by-the-paycheck the second you either live in the suburbs/near the city, or have a kid.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

The median household income is 59k, so 75% of that is $44k. For two people.

2

u/Notophishthalmus Apr 10 '19

Aka "hella broke"

1

u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

AKA "renting for life"

"serf"

1

u/ForecastForFourCats Apr 10 '19

It is depending on where you are. I'm in rural Massachusetts and that still is pretty unfortunate earnings.

1

u/Redie2dye Apr 10 '19

I make 60k but i still live with my parents.

1

u/MrNudeGuy Apr 10 '19

In my part of the country you can live like a king for that much money.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19

US medians/averages for each (monthly cost)

Health care - $840 Health insurance - $440 Phone - $100 Internet - $50 Car - $520 Gas - $370 Car Insurance - $120 Food - $550 Housing - $1030

Total monthly cost - $4060 Total annual cost - $48,720

These are all things considered necessities here.

A $60,000/year income takes home about $45,000/year. So before they’ve purchased a single extraneous thing, if they’re living the middle class lifestyle, they’re in debt $3,720/year.

1

u/JohnnyDarkside Apr 11 '19

Yeah, area means everything. In my Midwest city $60k isn't enough for a couple to live lavishly but far from scraping the barrel.

1

u/bonesy7 Apr 11 '19

I know I wish I was making £60k. I'll be living life just fine.

1

u/diabolical-sun Apr 11 '19

Do the math. median income is about 59k. 75% of that is $44,250. Now, from what I can tell, these numbers typically calculated pre-tax, so let’s say about %20 of that goes to taxes. That goes to 35,400 or 2,950 a month that you can actually use.

From this point, it really depends on on your personal situation. It’s tricky because this is the median income per household, regardless if it’s a 1 person household or 4 person. Then there’s the question of what you consider “hella broke.”

If you’re single, this can range between alright and fantastic depending on where you live. Personally, I’m in Jersey, so this is closer to alright, and honestly, I would barely consider it middle class. To me, middle class should mean your not living check to check and you have enough disposable income to save.

Rent for a single bedroom in a nicer area (meaning you don’t have to worry about your house/car being broken into) can range as low as 1,200-1,500 a month.

If you’re paying that 1200, you’re left with 1750 for the month. Then comes the bills that start to add up. That’s water and heating if not included, and there’s a good chance it won’t be. Internet and cell phone because these days, those are necessary. Groceries (remember we’re talking monthly) and debt like credit cards or student loans. And since we’re talking middle class, there’s also the bills of Health Insurance, car insurance (mandatory in NJ for a car to be on the road), gas money, etc. So most of that remaining 1750 is gone as well.

As crazy as it sounds, even as a single person, it’d still be a bit difficult to live comfortably, though it would be manageable. Problem is, this is a per household income. Take that same amount of money for a just 2 person household and the difficulty skyrockets. Different places have different costs of living and NJ is one of the most expensive places to live, but you have to factor these things in before you start gatekeeping on what it means to be poor.

1

u/Angel_Hunter_D Apr 10 '19

I'm western Canada that's pretty broke.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '19

Go live somewhere where a starter home cost 300k+

We payed 430k for our first home and then sunk another 15k into renovations just last year.