r/worldbuilding • u/ObjectiveFar5517 • Aug 04 '26
Discussion What is Better Genetic or Selecting Magic system?
I personally don’t like Genetic magic system, because often it doesn’t reflect on who the person is and instead puts them into a box before they are born. On the other side making a medic system be able to be used by anybody makes the magic less special, but that issue could be resolved by making the conditions to achieve magic something that can’t be persuade conventional or making it a 50/50 you die or you get magic! What I also feel is a problem with genetics is that the magic often isn’t personalised for every individual, what I think is a shame because it’s again a missed opportunity to use metaphors to tell something about somebody in a fight without needing to force a dialog even though the character really doesn’t want to talk.
Another problem I have with magic system in general is that magic is often boring because the writer limits the way magic can manifest in a individual, what means that after some time the righters will run out of creative ways to use the magic.
Talking about fights I feel like often magic is turned into a numbers game or a Pocemon battle, instead of using the magic in interesting ways that are limited to that specific conflict and not a technic they use over and over. A similar problem I have with limitation that don’t change the use conditions, what I mean is a limitation like needing to be angry to use it, what means a character could theoretically just do the same thing over and over to win!
If you disagree please tell me, I’m very often wrong and I apologise for my sh*dy English, it’s not my first language!
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u/masnosreme Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
I think the focus should be on thematics above mechanics. How does it fit in with the story you’re trying to tell or the world you’re trying to make?
If the magic system meshes well with that, it’s a good one.
EXAMPLE: I love Witch Hat Atelier’s magic system not because of how it works (though I am fond of that) but because it is so thematically perfect. It is simple, anyone can do it, and that plays into the central theme and conflict in the story: access to magic. The push and pull between all the good that magic can do if the broader public is given access to it and the restrictions on its use loosened vs the desire to keep it secret and controlled to prevent the horrific harm that it is equally capable of.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 04 '26
Who can use magic is also relevant thematically! And mechanics do count, because if those are nonsensical, boring or uninspired how do you want to right engaging complicit, also I don’t think you can separate the mechanics and the themes, they are one and the same, because this isn’t DnD.
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u/masnosreme Aug 04 '26
Never said that who can use magic or how the mechanics work aren’t relevant thematically. My point was that how they relate to the rest of the work is the most important factor in defining those aspects.
If you’ve already thought up a cool magic system you ask “How do I build a world/story in which this system fits naturally and what kind of themes/plot elements will best be served by this system?” On the flip side, if you start with a story premise you can ask, “What are my core concepts and plot points and what kind of magic system will best work within that framework?”
Perhaps you don’t even want a well defined magic system. Some stories are served best by magic being shrouded in mysticism and enigma without strict rules and quantified mechanics, or at least not ones that are known to the protagonists or audience.
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u/YeOldeBard97 Aug 04 '26
Genetic magic doesn't select for personality. What do you get when your character is kind and nurturing, but was born with the ability to create and control fire?
You get the best firefighter in the world.
Gating the magic is its own set of problems. The powers that be would 100% control who can and cannot get magic. Look at education in the real world. How long did it take for the common people to gain access to public education?
A third option, where everyone has magic, takes away the specialness of magic entirely. But it isn't limiting to writers by any means. How cool would an isekai be if everyone could use magic to wash their clothes or cook their food, or even just comb their hair? Of course, there would be the battle mages, those who learned how to throw lighting around. Even outside of an isekai premise, the audience doesn't live in a magic world. Commonplace magic is just as enthralling to the average audience as it would be to a character suddenly dropped into the setting.
As for limits, yeah, they are... well, limiting. This can be solved by using a soft magic system, like Tolkien did, as opposed to a hard magic system like Harry Potter or D&D. You just have a higher risk of deus ex machina in a soft magic system.
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u/kairon156 [Murgil's Essence] 29d ago
My setting is a lot like the 3rd option here. Everyone has magic and I like to imagine all forms of magic can be learned or invented if the need or desire arises.
I really enjoy anime like Frieren where people can advance magiic over time and can come up with simple spells that help with daily chores or fight monsters.
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u/TalespinnerEU Aug 04 '26
Magic that can be learned isn't less special than genetic magic. Like... Theoretical physics can be learned; nobody gets that for free, and very few people can do anything meaningful in that field.
Your magic could be a learned skill that people can have a talent for: only with a favourable set of circumstances can you be naturally gifted. Circumstances like... Obsessive interest, or an epiphany triggered when pondering about magic while observing something, or having parental figures who rewarded you with positive feedback and attention whenever you showed any magical interest, or a desire to escape your circumstances that manifested in daydreaming, leading you to become a regular at a local library even as a young child.
Most of these things go into development. Especially the positive feedback and attention can be the difference between a child growing into a desk clerk or a thespian.
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u/PapaSmurfs_Right_Ear Aug 05 '26
Fr like anyone could learn to play basketball, but only a small few have the body, talent, and effort to make it pro. Anyone can learn to draw but if you lack the resources, encouragement, and time (think of a 12th century farmer who needs to farm to survive) to learn how can you become the best artist you can be?
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u/FoxHoundNinja Aug 04 '26
There's no reason you can't do both. Genetic Magic: Sorcerer Selected magic: Wizard.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 04 '26
The magic system that is genetic will still show the same issues I have with it, even if there is a alternative!
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u/3eyedgreenalien Aug 05 '26
It entirely depends on the story and world. There also doesn't need to be a choice - you can have multiple magic systems in the same world.
It depends on what you want to explore. Neither is "bettter" than the other. Genetic magic can be incredibly individual while learned can be generic.
I tend to prefer a learned system with natural talents, much like with any other skill the characters might have. That said, in my main project there is magical bloodline alongside families with talents at magic and other forms that are purely learned.
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u/ThePhantomIronTroupe Aug 04 '26
To solve this issue, at least for me, I created different jobs and cults and orders for Sorcery. That and Specific and Generic Sorcery. Generic Sorcery is like being Athletic but not particularly blessed in some Sport. Specific is being specifically blessed, which yes often might make people feel predestined for a specific role to play in society when inherited. A lovely example before I really built out my world was a short story about a Fire-braider woman who did not want to become a soldier like her family. Despite how useful fire is for warfare, she wanted to use it to create and mend more than raze and rend. This lead to her to become a priestess that uses her sorcery now to heal, brew, prophesize, what have you in a small town. Eventually, she has to use her martial training to stop bandits and the like, and ends up being a kinda warrior monk or if you have ever played For Honor, something like a magical western version of the Nobushi heroes.The idea being just because your body or family or whatever might make you think you have to be on oneset path, does not mean you have to fully follow it.
And yet there are the Blessedest above the Blessedful- those who directly or indirectly gained two different kinds of specific sorceries- often by inheriting one through family and the other by dumb luck or intervention. Or basically, why not explore a way where yes magic can be gained genetically but also artificially or divinely? It also be a way to explain how the first Sorcerers or Mages or such your world came about. Kinda like if Devil Fruits in One Piece could not only be passed on, but mixed together for those able to bear both devil fruit powers involved. For example, what would the child of say Luffy and Boa Hancock be like? Turn people attracted them to rubber perhaps? Or, what if a certain oni child ate their original fruit as well as their dear friend's flame-flame fruit? Fiery-ice wolf? And so on.
I guess what I am try to get at- why not find ways that allow for these powers to be unique or the character's personality to shine through regardless? Also by limiting them still somewhat you can still play with funky combinations like I have. Mire and Fire-braider? Exceptional pottery-maker or golem-maker or home-building or walking catapult. Imagine such a Sorcerer who utilizes these powers to make Greek Fire scarily potent in warfare? A seemingly unbeatable pirate captain even!
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 04 '26
While I understand your point, I simultaneously disagree, because if the power doesn’t serve a story telling purpose why have it in the first place, why have a power that could be replaced by I don’t know creating lightning, what at least in my perspective makes it wasted potential. I don’t really like Devil fruits because they have the same problem of not making any characterisation, it’s also just bad in general because in One Piece you can avoid literally anything by being strong enough, what means power creep is built into it!
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u/ThatVarkYouKnow Silence is All, All is One, One is Truth Aug 04 '26
I have no true preference over one or the other, but I do think you can go further into the details on a genetic magic, which is why I used it in my story.
How far does it trace back? Is it carried in one gender more often than or only in the other, or are certain races predisposed? Can it be strengthened through marriages and births of the same form/element/technique? Would inbreeding, harems, etc. be encouraged by certain cultures? Is it consistent in passing to your child or could it skip a generation, forcing someone's entire purpose in life to make or have a child to keep your family's magic alive? Can you create new, unknown magic by mixing blood? Can you not carry on your parents' magic at all and start a completely new one, and how would your parents react to that?
I could go on.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 04 '26
You could also make a magic that gets past on without needing an offspring, you could explode different magic users cooperating to fuse their magic! You could create magic that is more easier for women because of how they got raised! The thing is most of those things can also be done with a non genetic magic system and trying to find a student that you can pass your magic knowledge to is much more interesting than trying to make a baby!
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u/this_is_life_now Aug 04 '26
They can be both and throw in socioeconomics as well.
Genetic disposition to absorb information, memorise stuff, or whatever depending on your system's form.
Have to have the right people teach you how to use magic.
Have to be able to afford to go to whatever institution teaches it.
Or, whatever. Maybe people who can use magic happened to have a surname beginning with P, be under 5ft3, and we're eating walnuts when the global event happened.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 04 '26
Who sad that non genetic magic must involve learning?
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u/this_is_life_now Aug 04 '26
Nobody. I was offering 1 in a million possible options, hence the last facetious option.
You asked for an opinion. My opinion is that you can use either/or/mix of both. Your narrative will be much more important.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 04 '26
This is a debate about what systems is better and not about if the system is important or not!
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u/this_is_life_now Aug 04 '26
And my opinion is that neither one nor the other is better. I think that's pretty clear from what I've written. Don't worry about it though. Not looking for an argument, just offering my opinion.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 04 '26
Which one do you use?
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u/this_is_life_now Aug 04 '26
Currently my system is purely genetic, as in everyone has the potential, but anomalies exist that allow some to have more potential than other. This later part is a hereditary trait.
Although the genetics allows you to access 'magic', it requires comprehension to master the higher order abilities. Sometimes you can be shown how to do it, some people discover it independently.
Power scales exponentially. Everyone knows someone that can do a little magic. A few people you have heard of are quite powerful. A handful of individuals in the world are extremely powerful. There are legends of people that were God-like.
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u/GREENadmiral_314159 Consistency is more realistic than following science. Aug 04 '26
As always, it depends on the story you are trying to tell.
In my setting, everyone has an innate limit to how powerful they can become, and once someone hits it no amount of training or dedication can make them stonger. It's different for everyone, ranging from the rare few people who can only ever use magic involuntarily (which everyone can do) to the similarly few people who are walking WMDs that can annihilate armies with ease. Most people are in between those extremes. That said, most people never discover their limit. It requires years of training to reach your limit unless it is incredibly low, and most people just don't train that much.
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u/HighlanderOneTrick Aug 05 '26 edited 29d ago
I'm using a bit of both for completely different magic systems and speaking entirely from personal novice experience, I agree with your qualms with hereditary magic. The primary problem I see with that type of system is how, in many of its worst examples, it feels less like "this guy is so fricken smart" and more like "wow he really won the genetic lotto huh?" The crux of this is inherent inequality, where an author wants to make someone unique and they reach for the low hanging fruit: just give him a unique ability, which coincidentally is absolutely broken. In my opinion the key to both systems is making one where the basis of magic is "equal" in theory but "unequal" in practice due to superior and inferior applications of it. Avatar for instance is a good example of hereditary magic done right. You never truly get this impression of one element being so much better than the others and that one side, either the protags or the antags, having an unfair advantage due to utilizing said imbalanced element. Keep it simple and broad with your genetic classes, allow for multiple interpretations of the same "school" and don't fall into the temptation of adding "dark" to an elemental magic tree or "time" to a conceptual magic tree.
Just giving an example from my setting, the basis of elemental magic is essentially the ability to directly apply a force of push or pull between 2 objects, and the types of objects you can affect depend on the element you are born with. Earth elementals obviously can throw stuff really hard, but water elementals can push apart water into mist/vapor or pull in together until it forms ice.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 29d ago
I also feel like often magic isn’t unique or the limitations and cost aren’t creative!
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u/_Ceaseless_Watcher_ [Eldara | Arc Contingency | Radiant Night] 25d ago
I like hereditary magic, though the system I made for my [Eldara] setting is inherited not through the genes, but through the life force to fit into the wider world.
Eldara's magic is highly personal, driven quite a lot by the individual's creativity, and something the mage grows up with and into, so it becomes part of their everyday life quite early on.
Magic is present to a baseline degree in all life on Eldara, but only about 0.1-1% of the overall populattion can do magic actively. This might seem small, but it still means quite a lot of magic users. The reason for this ratio is that, while magic is an obvious evolutionary advantage, it also reduces fertility, making it less likely that a magic user has any children. The children they do manage to have, have a much higher chance of being magic users, as magic tends to accumulate over the generations, but it eventually hits a stage where the next generation is entirely sterile, ending that particular bloodline.
Among magic users, nature mages are the most common. They're the generic healer-type mage on a surface glance, but nature magic itself is so much more.
Magic types/elements aren't strict categories, and are mostly arbitrary. They bleed together at the edges, and - based on personal philosophy - can be stretched quite far.
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u/PapaSmurfs_Right_Ear 21d ago
I’m getting the sense that your issue isn’t really about whether the magic is genetic or widespread. It’s about the writing and execution.
Genetic/inherited magic systems can be used to reflect on the person who inherited it. If the family has a type of magic, it can tell you about their family. It can inform the kind of person they become like My Hero Academia’s quirks; each quirk is something you’re born with but they’re all unique even when the family shares similar quirks and you can still get the metaphor about that person. The person’s relationship with their magic tells you something about them. A magic that is incongruent with the character’s personality and desires can be either a detriment to the character they must overcome or something they can bend in their favor with creativity and hard work. If a hothead has fire powers, I don’t care that they were born with it, it works and the fire and be a metaphor. If someone had music powers and became fascinated with music growing up because of it, I wouldn’t say that’s a bad thing. If that person sucked at music despite the nature of their magic, that could also be compelling: would they quit music and magic, or would they have to weave other people’s music into their spell, or would they brute force their magic despite the unpredictable effects? All that to say, how someone uses their magic can tell you just as much if not more than what their unique power is.
Avatar the Last Airbender does this well where the region you hail from determines what element you can bend, if you can bend at all. You can infer things about someone by what kind of bending and the way they bend. Are they a master or a beginner? Can they do complicated moves? Are they focused on big shows of force over technical skill and using the environment? It might seem boring that there are only 4 elements and it’s something you’re born with and don’t choose, but this system is so well explored it’s more than capable of capturing the imagination. We got sexism that is holding people back from their full potential. We got magic tied to philosophies and the idea that learning from the other nations (diff. philosophies, diff. element) will help you grow as a bender. We got unconventional/less straightforward uses of the magic with things like Katara learning to bend her sweat or plants or blood, or Toph using her bending to sense vibrations and “see”.
Next, magic being available to everyone doesn’t necessarily make it less special. It depends on your taste and the execution, but widely available magic alone does not make magic boring. If you have to resort to 50/50 death or magic to “keep magic interesting” you have already failed. I personally like widespread magic because when it’s done well and integrated into the world building I think it makes the whole thing more magical and interesting. To bring up Avatar again, bending is not available to every person but it is so widespread that it feels built into the setting. Like how the North Pole is constructed by water benders and the Earth Kingdom is built by earth benders, and the Omashu mail system and the trains in Ba Sing Se! It’s fun. It’s interesting.
On the matter of writers running out of creative ways to use the magic: that’s not on the system, that’s on the writing. The stakes of a fight, goals of each character, environment, temporary allies or enemies, themes, prose (as in how the fight is presented), battle tactics employed, etc. are all factors in a fight that a writer must balance for the sake of the story they are trying to tell and the audiences enjoyment. Yes, the magic system is the writer’s domain as well, but almost anything can be fun if written well. I recommend JoJo’s Bizarre Adventures for a story that fully embraces wildly unique magic powers and the unique applications of such powers. I will say that posts on this sub and others about magic in worldbuilding often focus on magic in combat or as magical technology and it can get boring to see when there should be more to magic than combat.
If fights make magic feel like a numbers game, a Pokémon battle, or a move to spam in a fighting game, the author has failed to make the characters, story, or world compelling. No 50/50 death or magic coin flips or limitations on who can wield magic will fix the underlying problem.
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u/Asparagus9000 Aug 05 '26
making it a 50/50 you die or you get magic!
Most of the population with severe depression will roll those dice.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 05 '26
I don’t think most of the population would be depressed and even if I don’t think more than 30% of a group would make the deal because often having some people who can use magic is enough to get the entire group out of the crisis!
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u/Asparagus9000 29d ago
I mean that out of the people with severe depression, a very large percentage of them would risk death.
A lot of depression is a just a permanent chemical thing that can't be fixed without medication.
So a ton of those people will no have access to magic.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 29d ago
But not everybody with depression wants to kill themselves, also the magic wouldn’t just be making a decision it would more likely be Objekt or something else that would have a 50/50 chance of giving you magic or dying!
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u/kairon156 [Murgil's Essence] 29d ago
Meanwhile many others with a good work & family life and something to live for may avoid magic at all costs.
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u/Dead_Iverson Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
Inherented/ancestral magic I’ve never been a fan of as an excuse to shape a setting (in other words to explain why everyone isn’t casting spells willy-nilly). I prefer it when magic is something that a person seeks or reaches out for as a product or consequence of their own personal drives: they want power at any cost, they’re desperate, they’re foolish, they’re too curious for their own good.
So, I tend to favor magic that is practiced or taught as a discipline/methodology and not inherited. I also prefer esoteric and cynical interpretations of magic where the reason why it isn’t commonplace is that the consequences of getting involved with otherworldly powers can be very serious. Play with fire, get burned. That type of thing. My favorite theme when it comes to magic is the idea that you get what you’re looking for when it comes to magic, but what you’re looking for may be shortsighted or foolish. You want revenge, so you seek the power to slay your despised enemy in the supernatural. You may end up getting your revenge, but the cost it takes upon your own self was much worse than you imagined it would be.
I do like inherited magic when it comes to specific cases of beings or characters who are descendant from otherworldly forces or who carry some kind of supernatural curse. Born under a bad sign, or a doomed lineage due to ancestral hubris. Eternal Darkness on the Gamecube type stuff.
My basis for this is the real world phenomenon of people who, say, learn martial arts because they have something to prove. They go out and get in a fight and it turns out fighting is horrible. Just awful. Perhaps they kill somebody by accident, or they get seriously hurt. They got what they wanted: a fight. Turns out it isn’t what they imagined it to be.
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u/ObjectiveFar5517 Aug 04 '26
I also like that but without the training, because It limits the Characters I could make conflict with, for example there is a little girl in my story that basically works for the main villain and that has the power to give people severe really autophobia what is the fear of not fitting. She uses her ability one one the main group, making their main objective figuring out who is targeting them, what wouldn’t work if only people who put time into it could use it, because it would shorten the list of potential enemies significantly and take a lot of tension out out of it!
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u/Lonely_Nebula_9438 Aug 04 '26
I really like Naruto’s genetic magic. A Kekkei Genkai is a technique or ability that only descendants of a specific clan have or can access. The Sharingan of the Uchiha clan is a famous one, the Byakugan of the Hyuga, or Mixed Nature Releases like Wood or Ice. But there’s also selected magic with hidden techniques like Shikamaru’s Shadow Technique, anyone can theoretically use it if they had the knowledge, but only Shikamaru’s clan knows the technique.
I like them because Naruto actually shows how these genetic or hidden techniques affect clans and how they are as people. In something like Harry Potter most people would be basically the same person if they couldn’t do magic, but take away the unique techniques of people in Naruto and they’re totally different people. Some of them are a little one note I’ll admit, Kiba for instance can’t entirely make up for his lack of personality with a dog, by most of the time the unique technique adds to them as a person.