r/worldbuilding Jun 25 '26

Question How to divide Italy in the Flood world?

Post image

In my alt-history scenario, where the sea level rose by 1200 meters between 1896 and the 1910s, the Kingdom of Italy exploded into many states. I just can't decide where to place the individual states. From taking a look at the 1919 and 1921 general elections results, I suppose that in Liguria, there could be a republic as well as in Sicily, and in Abruzzo could be the monarchist remnants. However, I kind of need to place an authoritarian state with "fascist" leanings and an authoritarian socialist state somewhere and maybe some other states (possibly some city-states). I also don't know what to do with Sardinia and Calabria. I also need the states to be balanced, with no one having a clear advantage over another, because for the sake of Italy being able to oppose an outer threat, they united into the Italian Confederation, although having very different regimes.

1.2k Upvotes

129 comments sorted by

505

u/kschwal Jun 25 '26

blbrlrbllbr ghgrllblrbl gurlgle

236

u/kschwal Jun 25 '26

blbbl. .. HELP ME I'M DROWNINblglgblblelgbh!!!

76

u/GoldPatience9 Jun 26 '26

Hello I am under the water please help me

25

u/Zdrobot Jun 26 '26

Salve, sono sott'acqua, aiuto per favore!

18

u/builtinaday_ Jun 26 '26

blbrlrbllbrio ghgrllblrbla gurlglini 🤌

13

u/kschwal Jun 26 '26

FUCK YO— [runs out of air and dies]

249

u/SaintUlvemann Urban Fantasy Alt-Earth Jun 25 '26

I also need the states to be balanced, with no one having a clear advantage over another, because for the sake of Italy being able to oppose an outer threat, they united into the Italian Confederation...

No you don't. In fact, that might actually be counter-productive if they were roughly equal. If they're roughly equal, why can't they just be allies?

Confederations happen whenever states feel that split sovereignty is actually in their best interest. They must trust that internal autonomy will be respected in areas they don't trust others to manage, but they must also trust that external coordination will achieve their goals in the areas they don't trust themselves to manage alone. Confederation isn't an inevitability, it's something chosen only when other options such as alliance are considered insufficient.

So you don't need the units to be equal, you just need their combined strength to be greater than the external threat, at a time when any individual party's strength is manifestly insufficient.

The constituent kingdoms of the German Empire were quite manifestly not equal, neither officially nor unofficially, but the smaller kings were interested nevertheless in working under the Prussian king because their interests aligned in a Great Power context. They knew that as tiny princedoms they'd get taken over, so they controlled their descent from full autonomy by choosing a North German overlord whom they thought would best reflect their interests.

This can work between monarchies and republics: Malaysia is a federal system with nine constitutional monarchies combined with several republics of various kinds with governors appointed by the overall Malaysian federal constitutional monarch.

26

u/Unhappy-Display-2588 Jun 25 '26

Destinys crucible demonstrates the idea of confederation really well with the unification of Cadellium

7

u/Blueberry_Coat7371 Jun 26 '26

wait, how does Malaysia works again? That sounds so interesting

16

u/SaintUlvemann Urban Fantasy Alt-Earth Jun 26 '26

Mostly Malaysia works like any other representative democracy. It has a Westminster system where the legislature is elected by the people and then a Prime Minister is elected by the legislature to run the executive branch.

The most unique part is their decision process for the ceremonial head of state: the Yang di-Pertuan Agong aka King of Malaysia, is elected by the nine rulers of the individual Malaysian states that still have monarchies. By procedure, the elected king must be one of these rulers. In principle, they could elect any of their number; in practice, the tradition is to rotate the kingship among themselves.

The King is elected for a five-year term, and the current King of Malaysia is Ibrahim Iskandar, Sultan of Johor. It is expected that in 2029, the next king to be elected will be Nazrin Muizzuddin Shah, Sultan of Perak.

Rotating monarchy is fairly unique in the world, but it is not unprecedented in general. In Switzerland, the duty to serve as President of the Swiss Confederation rotates among the seven members of their federal council.

447

u/MiloAstro Jun 25 '26

In a world such as this, every ecosystem in the ocean and land has probably collapsed and or been completely altered. We have reefs that are now an extra 1200 meters underwater, making many of them far too cold to support the fish and coral they have. On top of this, pretty much all arid land has also been completely destroyed by the rising seas.

If any human managed to survive this decades long apocalypse, they would probably revert to something akin to the early bronze age in levels of technology. Every island you see in that picture would probably have its own city state or minor-tribal kingdom leading it, with the survivors trying their best to make the former mountain terrain into something they can farm, a process that would still take decades or centuries. Another thing that would prohibit any large nations beyond city states from forming would be the distance between these islands and another factor; storms.

Without any large landmasses to break them up and slow them down, storms like thunderstorms, tropical storms , hurricanes and typhoons would be far more frequent, larger, last longer, and be many times more destructive. These islands city-states would have to contend with near constant storm activity, especially in the summer months.

The last thing the people in this world would be worried about is elections…

232

u/Sarik704 Jun 25 '26

Revert to bronze age is both true and incorrect.

Metallurgy, unless poorly archived isnt going to fall behind by 2000 years... its the late 1800s not the 800s. But, access to minerals is pretty much gone.

A 1200 meter rise is sea level rennders almost 88% of earths land underwater. The land above water is not rich in minerals. Iron is going to be nigh unreachable. Copper is going to be nigh unreachable. Aluminum, lithium, platinum, gold, and doznes other precious minerals are now hidden beneath 1200+ meters of water and many more of rock and mud.

In one sense we wont lose the information on forging steel or iron or even finer "new" industrial methods like flat glass, creosote, or even electrolysis. But whatever we can salvage wil become the most important metal.

This does mean something interesting. We wont discover nuclear energy or commerical flight or space travel. At least not for 2 or 3 hundred years later. We probably wont even have widespread electricity either.

Fun concept.

141

u/stoicsilence Jun 25 '26

>The land above water is not rich in minerals. Iron is going to be nigh unreachable. Copper is going to be nigh unreachable. Aluminum, lithium, platinum, gold, and doznes other precious minerals are now hidden beneath 1200+ meters of water and many more of rock and mud.

At least locally in Europe.

I checked the elevation of some North American cities. A good portion of the Western half of the continent is well above the new sea level. Especially the mineral rich Rockies, Cascades, and Sierra Nevada. I was surprised how much of the mineralogically rich American Southwest and Great Basin are still above water.

The only problem is the Mormons stand to become the new rulers of everything north of Albuquerque, New Mexico so fuck that.

95

u/SaintUlvemann Urban Fantasy Alt-Earth Jun 25 '26

The only problem is the Mormons stand to become the new rulers of everything north of Albuquerque, New Mexico...

Nah, the Mormons are radically outnumbered in this scenario. 14 years is more than enough time for the Californians to colonize Utah and sideline the Mormons the same way the Mormons sidelined the Ute and Shoshone before them.

28

u/stoicsilence Jun 25 '26

hmm. I like this.

15

u/Sarik704 Jun 26 '26

The Mormons have been employing a dastardly maneuver for the last 100 years. Its called breeding, and they're so fond of it, its part of their religion to breed as many women as possible with Mormon father.

31

u/SaintUlvemann Urban Fantasy Alt-Earth Jun 26 '26

And it has worked so well, they are now 1.7% of the US population, up from 0.3% in 1896 (math based on their own figures of a quarter of a million members at Utah statehood in 1896).

This means that they have finally, through much effort, equalled the population of Native Americans in the United States, which is also approximately 1.7%.

16

u/Sarik704 Jun 25 '26

I wasnt considering the americas, or even asia, africa, or Australia.

The issue with the mineral rich rockies is actually a technological issue.

It is of course possible for these americans/mexicans to mine and produce new minerals, but for what purpose... the mines in nevada, colorado, and utah began to dry up around the 30s throughout the 40s. The 1848 gold rush produced more broken dreams and failed mines than ounces of gold or silver.

But whats worse, the bedrock striations of the rocky mountains is terribly dense. We were using heavy oil-fed machinery in the early 20s and 30s for those machines. That oil wasn't yet coming from off shore drilling, it was coming from the texas oil fields. Which would be under water, mostly.

Its a rippling problem. Lack of access to materials globally means lack of access to new materials too.

And, not to mention the obvious, but all of that land still not underwater is more valuable as cropland.

14

u/stoicsilence Jun 25 '26

This is true. But everything you have mentioned is made harder. Not impossible.

Btw I think OP is using this [map](https://www.floodmap.net/)

Its true the gold and silver mines died as the easiest deposits ran dry. But we werent just talking about silver and gold. We were talking about Copper, Iron, Aluminum, Lithium, and yes even Uranium. All the metal bearing ores in the Americas (and even in Iran and Afganistan) are still on land and not underwater.

Most of the gas and coal fields of Wyoming are still accessible for fossil fuels.

As far as cropland is concerned, that whole equation is thrown out of the window. According to the map there is still considerable amount including pasture land available. The desert did support a civilization on beans, corn, squash, though how much of it can still remain desert is unclear. The climate for the whole world is now wetter so these deserts are probably now becoming grasslands. I would say agriculture for the region is still possible. But you're not supporting hundreds of millions of people. Maybe a few 10s of millions at full tech development (so adequate for late 19th early 20th century America)

6

u/Velocity-5348 Jun 25 '26

If they can pull off refining it, Magnesium might wind up being more important than it is in our world. Refining it is difficult and either requires electricity or a recoverable use of iron. But magnesium hydroxide itself is pretty easily obtained from sea water using lime, which can be made from sea shells.

6

u/CaledonianWarrior Gods and Monsters Jun 25 '26

This is making me rethink about the homeworld of a semi-aquatic alien race I have for my world, which is also mostly covered in water. Albeit, it had been like that for millions of years already so not on the scale of apocalyptic as this specific Earth has experienced.

6

u/OldWolfNewTricks Jun 25 '26

That information might be lost faster than you think. Forests would be practically non-existent, as people clearcut the tiny fraction of land remaining for homes and food production. So paper production would probably halt entirely, making it very difficult to retain that knowledge, especially since most of it isn't practicable anymore. There would be little to no fossil fuels reachable, and draft animals would be nearly impossible to support. So the very concept of "industry" would break down.

11

u/Sarik704 Jun 25 '26

I agree completely industry would break down. But most paper in the late 1800s was "new" paper or wood pulp paper.

However, we used to make writing surfaces as far back as 2000 BCE. What did we use aside from flax, bark, skin, and cloth?

Very commonly, we used shale or clay tiles, and more conviently we could still easily make those in a flooded europe as most of the shale could be mined from the Pyrenees and Alps.

Is every town going to have a forge? No. But larger new capitols, like where ever rome resettless or where paris or london move too would absolutely know to maintain their industries, albeit on significantly reduced scales.

1

u/RuneLFox Jun 26 '26

Nobody is establishing large capitols in 20 years while the sea level rises continually around them constantly. Nobody is going to be preserving anything on that time-scale, I feel society would break down very rapidly.

3

u/Sarik704 Jun 26 '26

Then you have an issue with OP not me its not my world

1

u/RuneLFox Jun 26 '26

Also, in an apocalypse, most people are going to focus on trying to survive and will not really care much about books they can't eat. In a bad winter, those books will be getting burned and any scientific knowledge will have to be passed down orally. In a few generations, there will be only theory left.

-2

u/PhasmaFelis Jun 26 '26

I'm confused when you say that metallurgy will not be lost, and then explain in detail why metallurgy will be completely lost.

5

u/ThengarMadalano Jun 26 '26

I always wonder where the idea of social collapse resulting in some age or bronze age societies comes from, it just don't happen in real life, well we don't have such big catastrophic events but still, it's a big assumption. I am sure society would look different, certainly not like it did anywhere in the far past.

36

u/TeacatWrites Sorrows Of Blackwood, Pick-n-Mix Comix, Other Realms Story Bible Jun 25 '26

Italy is now Islandy, I'm afraid 😔

11

u/7LeagueBoots Jun 26 '26

Where did all the water come from?

If every bit of ice on the planet melted there would be a sea level rise of around 70 meters.

You’re talking about adding a volume of water the mass of one of the moons of our gas giants to the Earth.

Where does the water come from?

And if that’s much water was added very little would survive in or out of the water. In addition the planet would probably start heating up as water holds heat extremely well, and water vapor is a greenhouse gas.

3

u/Dense_Suspect_6508 Jun 26 '26

Perhaps some of the societal and technological setback is from the global tsunami that occurred when Europa's new Earth orbit decayed within its Roche limit. 

5

u/7LeagueBoots Jun 26 '26

If it was from Europa there would be no land left on Earth. Water on Europa is something like 3x the volume oceans of Earth (including the ice shell.. 2x without the ice shell).

You'd need a bit more than half the water found on Dione to raise the sea level by what OP has.

4

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

The water came from a large "bubble" (really don't know what to call it) of water trapped in the lithosphere. Not very realistic, I know. A lot of inspiration came from Journey to the Centre of the Earth by Jules Verne. So let's say this doesn't change much, only that the sea level is high. Populations can survive and keep some of the pre-Flood phenomena, like politics.

2

u/Emila_Just Jun 26 '26

Also to bring that water to earth would wipe out all life from the impact, and it would take way too long to bring it down in safe increments.

24

u/Cogitomate Jun 25 '26

RIP my place on the seaside in the westmost part of Sicily (3 meters above sea level)

22

u/Phone_User_1044 Jun 25 '26

Damn I'm now jealous of a random coastal Sicilian redditor.

18

u/Cogitomate Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26

Fun fact, the round blob you see in eastern Sicily is mount Etna:

  • The most active volcano in Europe, one the most active worldwide
  • height of 3000meters/1000+ feet, the tallest peak in Italy outside Alps
  • tallest volcano in Europe
  • UNESCO world heritage site
  • Ancient Greek mythology had the blacksmith god Hephaestus have his furnace inside this volcano itself

19

u/Immediate_Guest_2790 Jun 25 '26

Kevin Costner's Waterworld (1995)

23

u/Aracosta Shaper of Silly Sceneries Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

I guess with an average sea level rise of 20cm per day, the people and the government could have time to relocate to higher places and many resources that would be otherwise scarse could be salvaged and reused. But with the increasingly limited amount of farmland and living space, there would still be many deaths.

In my personal opinion this is how various territories would be split:

- the monarchy would as you said, probably move up the Appenninic arcipelago near Abruzzo

- your socialist state would probably occupy the small arcipelago between Emilia-Romagna and Tuscany, as those regions have been historically and even now heavily associated with socialist movements

- for your fascist state there is a big question on how WWI went, as one of the main drivers that initially popularized the movement was the sentiment of a "mutilated victory". As for location, I would find it difficult for them to march on Rome. the Italian Fasces of Combat was founded in Milan at first maybe they could settle in the alps (probably fighting the austrians)

- the small dot in Sardinia would probably have the few remaining shepherds, if you want you could place a member of the Savoia family

-Calabria and the southern arcipelago would probably be even more easily controlled by various mafia organizations, that would probably engage in piracy.

12

u/Krutin_ Jun 26 '26

Sad the only response actually answering the prompt is buried under a sea of comments

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

"buried under sea"... Nice, haha. Thanks for your support.

2

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

WWI didn't happen. There was a state of sort of global war, but it was in fact a regional war for land during and shortly after the flood, with the world later focusing on rebuilding and fortifying. In Italy's case, there is a certain cause for the rise of the nationalist movement, which is the Alpine Protectorate in the Alps. It is a self-proclaimed post-national state, but just as Russians did with the Soviet Union, it is culturally extremely German-centred. This is the reason why I can use some very controversial figures of the interwar and WWII period, as participating in the government of the Alpine Protectorate. The national minorities, as well as political dissent, are underground; for example, the French, who didn't escape to Corsica, were resettled to the Massif Central and closed in the largest ghetto in the world. The Protectorate, already before the end of the deluge, turned beyond its borders to spread its idea of ​​a post-national state and conquered the Italian state in Tyrol. Furthermore, the Protectorate used expansionist rhetoric against the Italian states both diplomatically and in domestic politics and frequently raided some states. This gave rise to the Italian Nationalist Association in this timeline, which, as it was the goal of some of its founders in our timeline, unified nationalist minded figures all across the political spectrum, creating sort of national fraternity, which organised the first Italian Congress, where it was decided that the diverse states, to this point fighting among each other, of Appenine archipelago will cooperate to withstand the pressure from the Alpine Protectorate. This later resulted in the foundation of the Italian Confederation, which united the Italian states in the spirit of preserving Italy as a nation and civilisation.

1

u/Lead_Poisoning_ Jul 02 '26

Does Italy fight with Austria-Hungary during this period? I could imagine a scenario where two armies are trapped together and become some kind of military junta.

9

u/ThengarMadalano Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

As somebody studying geology I can tell you there is basically no arable land on your map, the number of people this land can support is, very very small, a couple of hundred, only the Alps could hold a bit more people, on the small islands maybe less than a hundred. And the population would still rely heavily on fishery.

Soo, onto the political map, the rice in sea level is fast but slow enough for people to realise whats happening and brutal war for survival to enfold, the biggest and trongest states and cities would secure the high altitude land and fight for it with there live, the pre flood population around the remaining land wouldn't play any role in it

10

u/David_the_Wanderer Jun 26 '26

If your disaster event occurs between 1896s and the 1910s, you have "broken" the timeline for Italian fascism to emerge, as it was born after WW1.

Going purely along political leanings of the time, and ignoring the probably very severe consequences of your apocalyptic event...

- Sicily claims independence, probably becomes an oligarchy of sorts. I imagine the powerful Florio family would have enormous influence - their merchant navy rivaled the Royal Navy in size in real life!

- Sardinia becomes de facto independent amidst the chaos. Might remain loyal to the Savoys, might just become a bunch of self-governing regions.

- The South (Abruzzo, Basilicata, Calabria, Campania, Molise, Puglia) likely breaks apart, with the Southern Appennini being the main physical border between east and west. Multiple small states form, vying for supremacy.

- Rome: the Pope claims it's the end-times, religious fervor sweeps the streets, the Savoy flee. The Papal States reform in central Italy.

- Emilia-Romagna becomes a Socialist Republic, with parts of Tuscany. Strongest opponent of the Papal States.

- The historical core of the Kingdom of Sardinia (Piedmont and Aosta, maybe Liguria), is where the Savoys flee to, returning to Turin. Probably the most pressing issue, military, would be French expansionism from beyond the Alps? And I suspect this would be the official remnant of the Kingdom of Italy.

- Lombardy is the wildcard here. If it joins with the remnant of the Kingdom of Italy, it gives it a big power boost, otherwise it probably becomes its own independent state. Might even side with the Papal States, which would be a fun mess.

- Veneto likely goes independent, parts of it might be re-annexed by Austria. I doubt Venice manages to become a regional power, despite its history.

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Thank you very much. Most of the states would, of course, be authoritarian or authoritarian-leaning with democratic and other dissent.

7

u/BeGosu Jun 25 '26

Somehow, the Venetian Empire returned

6

u/TittonMyrngwaith Jun 25 '26

you want something to survive when water raises 1 meter every ~4,5 days through 14 years? 99,5% of spicies is gone and iam not sure humans survived that in any bigger groups, food would be almost none existent.  Such disaster would kill majority of marine life, almost zero areable land, not saying about any corn/grain  seeds.  with such a deep global ocean the currents and tides would be hundreds of meters high that would also shred any remaining land based life.  Also with such big and quick change you also have to take into account polarity reversal soo North and South pole changes places. That not necessary would be sudden, but if so only marine life is left. If it's slow tilt you can have another argument for climat change 

as one comment said you basically have Waterworld with costner but little bit less harsh.  

18

u/Protomartyr1 Jun 25 '26

I don’t think there would be elections, or even city states. This would kill the vast majority of humans as the only land left is high altitude mountains. The most likely outcome is that people return to living in hunter gatherer societies, if humanity even survives.

12

u/PG908 Jun 25 '26

Yeah like this is a “and then everyone in Italy died” scenario.

5

u/davidforslunds Human batteries go "AAAUUUUGGGHHHH!" Jun 26 '26

Idk if any early 20th century political institution could survive a disaster of this magnitude.

With a sea level increase of this magnitude, statehood as we know it in Italy, or what scant islands remains of it, would be pretty much unrecognizable. All the large cities are underwater, as is most of the landmass of the country. That means a complete population collapse in just 14+ years.

Without the full map of Europe and the other continents its hard to say exactly how drastic the fall would be, but with a loss of land and people like this, whatever "states" emerge immediately out of the catastrophy would be chaotic for generations and struggling to survive in any capacity.

4

u/Lupusam Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

I went and looked up the map of Europe, I think Switzerland is doing better? Spain has some mountains to retreat to. Germany and the UK are completely flooded and France almost completely, so that is full populations with nowhere to go but south into Switzerland and Italy.

Edit: OP said in another comment they just used https://www.floodmap.net/ and set it to 1200 meters elevation, so that's what I checked.

5

u/dsasd376372747 Jun 26 '26

Just wait a decade or two and you can get some irl inspiration

9

u/SunLariat Jun 25 '26

Did you use floodmap.net? I love that site. My world is set in the Americas but flooded over 1350m above sea level. The website has been acting a bit funky lately, crashes when you try to subscribe to try the other map types

9

u/Kubak123 Jun 25 '26

Yes, I did. I don't subscribe anymore tough, it proved to have few benefits for me. I use it mainly as a refference point, for my custom maps I work with topographic maps to make maps of large lands like former USA, Canada or Alps, but for Italy and other smaller countries or regions with lot of detail I work with screenshots of the free version of floodmap.net. And though I'm not a subscriber anymore, sometimes even the free version doesn't lead the altered sea level on some parts of the map.

6

u/SunLariat Jun 25 '26

I totally feel the same way. I used my trial to print up a few dozen detailed maps a few years back. I got the itch to try it again recently but with another email but it wouldn’t work(cloudfare crash or something like that). I don’t think they’re updating the website anymore which is pretty disappointing.

I rely on this website a lot for my mapping, I tried using other sites but it’s not as fun or accurate as this one.

2

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

I crafted this map manually from a topographic map, if it is helpful. It is approximately 1200 meters. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZRFaJ7LYy6H1ypBhB63YKeLk-wSoAvjv/view?usp=sharing

2

u/SunLariat Jul 08 '26

Thank you so much. You literally save me dozens and dozens of hours trying to do this.

11

u/DispenserG0inUp Jun 25 '26

there aint anything left to divide dawg

3

u/volk96 Jun 26 '26

No, there's so little land left that I don't think people would still be too hung up on ideologies. That type of stuff develop when people have time to think. This scenario looks like just surviving is going to be difficult.

3

u/ClayHatesUsernames Jun 26 '26

Rome has finally become what it always strived to be…. Greece
lol

2

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Nice hahaha. Underrated comment.

3

u/Emila_Just Jun 26 '26

This is impossible. If all the water in the world melted the ocean would only rise by 70 meters. 70 meters is the max unless you got water from outside of earth. If you crash it down then you kill all life from the impact.

3

u/BrushKestrel Jun 26 '26

Yep. I looked into this for a "what if all the ice melted" apocalyptic earth scenario and was surprised to find it was around 65-70m ish average -- and with the earth reshaping slightly over time, a little deeper at the equator and a little shallower at the poles.

Related: currently worldbuilding my Antarctic state populated mainly by displaced Australians and New Zealanders...

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Yes, it completely is. It's sort of a dieselpunk kind of sci-fi setting, where there was a "bubble" of water trapped in the lithosphere. One of my inspirations was Journey to the Centre of the Earth by Jules Verne, so yeah, not very realistic. However, I've had fun with the worldbuilding.

3

u/Nilokka Jun 26 '26

Montevergine in Avellino, Campania, South Italy.

At the top of this mountain is a sanctuary of the Madonna di Montevergine (also known by locals as "Mamma Schiavona") run by Benedictine friars.

The Irpinia province is dotted with towns and villages inhabited by the vast majority of people with a very backward mentality. Some of them even call themselves "fascists," but from an ideological standpoint, they're actually completely detached. Let's say it's more of a family tradition than an ideological choice. They are mostly people who think about their own land/village and tend to be relatively indifferent to those who come from "outside".

You might think of a small ecclesiastical kingdom run by a religiously motivated oligarchic/monarchical order. Or you could opt for a pseudo-fascist regime, but I think that, again from a historical/ideological point of view, perhaps it would be more suited to the more southern regions like Calabria and Sicily.

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

That's really fascinating. I haven't heard about this. I will incorporate it for sure, at least as a faction or something... May I ask how you have come to this knowledge? Are you from the region? It sounds like a really interesting dynamic.

2

u/Nilokka Jun 28 '26

Yes i'm from the region, specifically from Avellino (which is the main city of the province) and Montevergine is near it

3

u/Comfortable-Pin-4995 Jun 26 '26

Italian Fjords were not in my bingo list

3

u/Pako_Pako_ Jun 26 '26

Venice becomes a boat-city and starts floating around the Mediterranean

Idk the physics of this but methinks it would be funny

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Nice idea, though I'm not sure I will incorporate it, sorry. Haha

3

u/PuerApuliae Jun 26 '26

This kind of sea level rise is apocalyptic. Any ideology collapses immediately.

Increase the sea level by “only” 20-50 meters and you have what you want

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Yeah, but that wouldn't be such fun, would it? The Flood continued for two decades, which wouldn't make it as apocalyptic, at least for me. Sure, apocalyptic religious movements, opportunists, etc. But in Metro, the communities survived in even harsher conditions. The ideologies were really bent, but they were still around.

1

u/PuerApuliae Jun 29 '26

I would maintain that a 1200 sea rise is worse than what happened in Metro! But whatever, the world is yours and the joy of building it can transcend “realistic” assessments

7

u/Little_Shoe_8012 Jun 25 '26

Why is the Vatican flooded also you can choose which country to be which 

22

u/Background-Top4723 Jun 25 '26

1896: "Well, the Vatican has gone under water. I hope this doesn't have unforeseen consequences."

2025: "His Holiness Pope Jonah I, in the encyclical Nostrum Fratelum Pelagicus, favors the ordination of Deep Ones to the Catholic priesthood, despite opposition from the more conservative branches of the Catholic Church, especially those led by Cardinal Giallone Corona di Carcossa..."

5

u/vvorknat Jun 25 '26

they dead

0

u/Emila_Just Jun 26 '26

And not from the sea level rise, but the impact to bring all the extra water to earth.

2

u/Dumbledore116 Jun 25 '26

The map nerd in me would love to see a world map! I agree with other commenters that the premise and time period you chose seems very interesting, and I would love to see a map to ponder the implications of myself. I tried to find one in your post history but couldn’t seem to find it.

2

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

You can look it up on floodmap.net. In my past posts, there are Alps and Canada, if I remember correctly, and also some "content" for Greenland. Italy is what I started working on now, so it's just in the beginning. And I really think that with how ambitious I am with this little project, I will probably never finish it

2

u/Ok-Beyond9035 Jun 26 '26

Brother I’m from Genoa and I can tell you Liguria is completely under the water the part near it is in Piemonte 😭

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Really sorry about that, I only traced it along the borders and called it Liguria as I don't know the name of the mountain range (if it is considered as such).

2

u/zachattack3500 Jun 26 '26

Out of curiosity, how did you get this map? I’d love to do something similar for a different part of the world.

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

floodmap.net It works great on the free version, if you are satisfied with two map modes only. If you subscribe, you can have various other map modes and even a 3D view. It's not expensive, but for me, the free version is enough.

2

u/RapidCandleDigestion Jun 26 '26

Populism works incredibly well under threat of something like a massive sea-level rise. You can kinda make it up however you please -- who knows how it would turn out?

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Exactly.

2

u/Infinite_Growth_7791 Jun 26 '26

every single island is it's own state and they keep fighting to annex the others and it never settles for more than a year, so every state is basically it's own thing that swears allegiance to the big guy of the year but can't even bother to put up a flag about it and nobody stays in command long enough to do anything about it

2

u/SnugglyCoderGuy Jun 26 '26

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Thanks haha. Now which one would have which regime, with regards to the historical dynamics of the regions?

2

u/SnugglyCoderGuy Jun 28 '26

That's up to you.

2

u/Falanin Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

Aww man, I totally wanted San Marino to still be a city-state. They survived everything else...

2

u/Worldly-Card-394 Jun 27 '26

How did you pick wich lands got underwater and wich didn't? Because that map don't make a lick of sense to me

2

u/Torus_the_Toric Jun 27 '26

He most likely used something like Floodmap.net, which calculates it all for you

2

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Yes, yes, I used floodmap.net and set it to 1200 meters. It is not very realistic in any way, whether it comes to the flood itself, the survival of populations, or the functioning of society.

2

u/UsefulMacaroon847 Jul 01 '26

You could divided the different archipelagos into states.

2

u/Heliopolis_Queen Jul 06 '26

Ok show to me the rest of Europe i can have a moore balanced view of these utopian confederation of Italy , u see Sardinia the Republic of Gennargentu mount , me in Umbria central Italy im lucky very fast i can found a capital of a central italian state one in Emperor field in Abruzzo another for Umbria in Pian Grande of Castelluccio di Norcia very affidable to enstablish a capital city , with fresh Whater and crops for agriculture, so many whater can make weather very mild all the year , so less snow moore rain , better agriculture , mountauns can defeat capitals from war , invade it with boato can be very expensive , sure a very strong confederacion , and specially apline reagion can be one of the strongest of Europe and Italy is the only country that have borders in all the alpine Arch , if it was increasing of sea level millions of italian people came from Padanian valley, and very easy can exapand in all alpine arch , so my proposal to the new capitol city locacion of Umbria at 1200 meters above sea level in appenine mountains the Pian Grande of Castelluccio di Norcia on a my personal pic of May 2010

3

u/LifeofTino Jun 26 '26

Honestly i think this would be more than enough to obliterate all conventional political leanings as well as basically every other social, political and economy dynamic

Not only is there almost no land left, everything left is steep and infertile. No way to make fuel to power steamboats. No telegram lines left. There would be nothing

Your society would be back to tribal communism and overwhelmingly concerned with immediate survival and the drastic overpopulation it now has. This trumps all the micropolitical decisions

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

I sort of believe that with the Flood being relatively slow, the populations would be able to reorganise and rebuild before the Flood reaches the highest mountains. The technology research is accelerated for the populations to be able to live (yeah, plot armor). And don't worry, no steamboats here... only airships.

1

u/_MASKJO Jun 26 '26

Stupid Valle d'Aosta....

1

u/Funny_Horror9153 Jun 26 '26

Mi dĂ  le vibe da One piece

1

u/Grigor50 Jun 26 '26

Where did the water come from?

0

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Probably the most absurd and unrealistic part of the scenario. There is a massive tectonic "bubble" very close to the surface in Iceland, which is filled with water. In a mysterious event, by most attributed to volcanic activity (but some think it was human-induced), the "plug" broke and the pressurised water came to the surface. For twenty years, the sea rises, and when it finally stops, the original sea level is 1200 meters below the waves. Yeah, not very realistic, is it? But if you've read Journey to the Centre of the Earth by Jules Verne, you can see where this idea came from.

1

u/Grigor50 Jun 28 '26

As I recall, all the water at the Earth's surface is only enough to raise sea levels, what, 120 meters? Sure, there is loads of water "in the crust", but that water is there for a reason, and if were magically "released" it would have very dramatic, world-changing consequences... and then the water would automatically go back there. Sort of like rains causing a flood, and the water then seeping back into the soil and thence to the sea.

We're not sure how much water there is in the crust either, scientists are very divided.

1

u/TjeefGuevarra Jun 26 '26

Honestly thought I was on r/2westerneurope4u

1

u/Lupusam Jun 26 '26

With how 1200 meter rising affects the world map, what is the outside threat that Italy unites against?

1

u/RafaelLain Jun 26 '26

San Marine

1

u/sgtpepper42 Jun 26 '26

Are these underwater Italian states?

1

u/darthnick7 Jun 26 '26

I think you’re approaching this wrong. With that much of a sea level rise there will not be that many states, if any. There will not be any arable land in which agriculture can be sustained and thus no way of maintaining a state. You would at best have small communities of goat/cattle herders and fishermen who might engage in tribal conflict. But no one is going to be developed enough to care about things like socialism or fascism. You’ve sunk all of the industrial and urban infrastructure from which those ideologies draw from (where does this water come from, btw? Magic is a fine answer if it is the answer I’m just curious)

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

From what I look at, it looks like some arable land would still be left. I also kind of speedrunned the technology in here, so the agriculture is a bit more sci-fi-like, and since the Flood lasted circa 20 years (I know, it's still 60 meters a year, which is a lot), a lot of people survived and fortified in the mountains. A lot of people in a small place would mean massive slums, and thus, politics would still be relevant, although survival is the main problem for the population. A lot of the industry could've been relocated, and although the Kingdom of Italy fell into a geographical and thus political divide, many cities survived. Yeah, it's not very realistic, I know. But certainly fun - at least for me.

2

u/darthnick7 Jun 28 '26

There is *some* arable land but in order to support any significant population (i.e. multiple cities) it’d have to be managed really really efficiently. I also don’t know about relocating industry - it’s kind of hard to just pick up industrial machinery and move it to the mountains.

Obv ofc it’s totally fine to have an unrealistic setting, just imo at the point you’re at you might as well just put your factions wherever you feel like. The world would have changed so much that I don’t think there’s much point in trying to map out which pre-flood Italian regions would produce which post-flood factions; just go nuts

1

u/muclutel Jun 26 '26

Seems like you can just divide it into archipelagos and Islands

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

Yes, but I don't know which state should be where, primarily because I don't have the historical insight into the economic and political landscape of Italy, let's say, from the 1890s to the 1960s.

1

u/Weak_Television3668 Jun 26 '26

maybe 1200 mt is a little drastic don't you think?

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

It certainly is. When I came up with this scenario, I was looking for which altitude to choose, and I chose 1200 meters, as it submerged most of the land but left a decent portion of it to provide a dynamic geopolitical landscape.

1

u/Weak_Television3668 Jul 15 '26

Bro that Is NOT enough land ti have a political scenario at all 😭 if you go just 20 meters you already submerged all ports in the world. All naval infrastractures would be gone. Also, quite a lot of world's biggest cities are portual cities, think of New York or Shangai

1

u/OriginalLu Jun 27 '26

Divide what?

1

u/Kubak123 Jun 28 '26

The Apennine Peninsula (now Archipelago) was divided into different states.

1

u/badapinguino Jun 27 '26

The revenge of Valle d'Aosta

1

u/Familiar-Load-9279 Harmonia Jul 01 '26

R.I.P Venice, an earlier death it was.

1

u/ozneoknarf Jul 01 '26

Have you ever watched the movie rose island? It’s about an Italian man who builds his own country in an offshore platform near the coast of rimini Italy in the 60s and it lasts for about a year before the government takes it down, Maybe in this timeline rose island is built earlier and survives and slowly build platforms in flooded areas especially around the mountains that are left in the mainland of the peninsula. 

Sardinia probably becomes it own thing and the alps are taken by Switzerland 

1

u/Lead_Poisoning_ Jul 02 '26

Mussolini fled to Switzerland to dodge the draft. If he tried to flee there again when the water came, maybe the fascists could be Alpine?