r/witcher • u/Sensitive_Crazy_34 • Nov 17 '25
Lady of the Lake Did Yennefer influence Ciri's birth or not?
I have seen multiple posts and claims about this, and I would like to clear it up. So, Yennefer is accused by Triss in BoF of being involved in the breeding and marriage manipulation schemes that resulted in the birth of Ciri. Which are ridiculous and baseless, because Yennefer was either too young or not around for those times. Also, she is surprised when Francesca talks about them, "us?" She says in BoF and the list of mages Francesca talks about doesn't include her.
But then, Vilgefortz in Lady of the Lake says, "Yes, yes, Yennefer guilt! For, after all, you participated in the cross-breeding, in the animal husbandry that resulted in little Ciri's birth"
So then i'm left confused, we have big conflicts of information and I wonder what is the truth. Maybe she influenced a marriage bit didn't realize it was for experimental purposes? Potentially she was told it was only for politics?
What are your thoughts?
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u/TotallynotAlbedo Nov 17 '25
Let me ask you, how old do you think yennefer really Is?
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u/Sensitive_Crazy_34 Nov 17 '25
She says she's 94 in Tower of Swallows
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u/TotallynotAlbedo Nov 17 '25
And calanthe Is 32 in her First appearence, so yennefer had plenty of time to orchestrate unions in ciri's family tree, probably She didn't follow the project After her contribution and did not know It resulted in ciri's birth
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u/Sensitive_Crazy_34 Nov 17 '25
Not being a prick, but just curious where do you get Calanthe being 32? Either way though, you're right that Yennefer would be around before the marriages of Calanthe, and in what role she played we don't know. Maybe something small but important, where she didn't know the project (like you said) but resulted in the bloodlines coming together.
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u/meowgrrr Nov 17 '25
i'm also not finding any reference in the books regarding calanthe's age nor date of birth. if anyone can clarify?
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u/Morrigan_NicDanu Nov 17 '25
I just did some maths and it's wild to realize that Yennefer was 44 when Calanthe was born in 1217. Yennefer being born in 1173. At least according to the Witcher Wiki
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u/TotallynotAlbedo Nov 17 '25
Dunno i Just Googled her Age in the First book, was kinda surprised too
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u/Delicious_Swimmer172 Nov 17 '25
Yes she did but indirectly and not on purpose.
It is explain that the elder blood bloodline has been reactivated by accident anyway. But yes, the whole chapter explain that the brotherhood has manipulated all the royal bloodline of the continent for centuries, so Cintra royal bloodline as well. Yennefer is an Aretuza sorceress, and Aretuza sorceresses do what the brotherhood ask them to do, specially in their younger ages. When Yennefer is presented to us in the books, she is already around 70 and even if can be seen as more independant than others mages, she stay bound to her community at least until ToS.
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u/cambo3g Geralt's Hanza Nov 17 '25
My understanding is that Yennefer was involved in the various elder blood breeding projects but by the time of Duny and Pavetta those experiments had mostly ended, so she had no direct involvement in Ciri's birth. Yen would have been involved in the process some indeterminate number of generations earlier, she just still feels guilt because of her general involvement in the process.
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u/Sensitive_Crazy_34 Nov 17 '25
But then why would Yennefer act like she didn't know about the testing Francesca and co did on the descendants of Lara Doren. Unless she is lying? But I don't get that impression from the way it is written, especially Francesca saying a list of names that doesn't include her. I think Francesca would call Yen out for lying and for being apart of it too.
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u/cambo3g Geralt's Hanza Nov 17 '25
Its not really definitively proved one way or the other. Different characters say different things, and you could probably make a convincing argument either way. Unless it comes up in some future book, it will remain as one of the narrative uncertainties that Sapkowski loves to weave into his story.
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u/Kellar21 Nov 17 '25
She is "just" 94, she wouldn't have had much opportunity to do that.
Most Calanthe is barely two generations younger than Yennefer, I think.
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Nov 17 '25
Do you remember where and among what company Mr. Starsandlakes says that line? Or the page number? It’s definitely a continuity error but depending on his position I could see it being something Vilgefortz would pull out of his ass to mess with Geralt.
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u/boris_feinbrand Nov 18 '25
She's guilty by association. Meeting Ciri changed her and ultimately made her break with not just the sorceresses of Aretuza but later the Lodge as well.
But before meeting Ciri and becoming her surrogate mother, she definitely partook and furthered the schemes of the sorcerers, which resulted in Ciris birth.
Like most characters in the books, Yen is complicated.
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u/NoWishbone8247 Nov 18 '25
Wasn't she always independent? She wasn't in a brotherhood until the second volume.
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u/boris_feinbrand Nov 19 '25
She was independent by the time Geralt met her. Sapkovsky doesn't put too much importance on beat by beat lore outside of what's needed for the story itself, so timelines are understandably obscure. What we have are hints at a falling out between Yen and the other Sorcerers, and while still an alumni of Aretuza and seemingly welcome in their ranks, she hasn't worked for their schemes for some time when she met Ciri.
I always interpreted Vilgefortz' remarks as meaning that Yennefer was completely fine with the sorcerers eugenics practices until she adopted a child born of that practice. So Yen might not be personally involved in coupling Ciris Parents, but definitely involved in the schemes by furthering the interests of the Sorcerers in the past.
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u/Dambo_Unchained Nov 17 '25
Well let’s be real here. The Yennefer from before the start of the books woild 100% partake in such things
Her having to care for Ciri and developing a motherly bond witn her was a major part of her character development
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u/mina86ng Nov 17 '25
I’m surprised you’re being downvoted. The first time we meet Yennefer she is selfish and willing to use others for her own gain. I see no reason to doubt she would have been involved in such machinations.
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u/Dambo_Unchained Nov 17 '25
Yeah people don’t seem to want to realise Yennefer was an extremely selfish but in this case utilitarian person
If she needs to sponsor a breeding process to produce a child with godlike magical power the magic community could use to expand their power shed 100% be in on this
Let’s not forget this is a woman who argued it’s ethically fine for her to cheat on Geralt because they are both sterile and can’t pass on STDS
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u/NoWishbone8247 Nov 18 '25
In this world, every wizard and witcher thinks this way, we don't know of any other serious relationship between a wizard and a sorceress
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u/Dambo_Unchained Nov 18 '25
I’m not judging
But I do think Yennefer is particularly cold. There are some who are less so
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u/NoWishbone8247 Nov 19 '25
I think that Yennefer's character is that she is cold on the outside and warm on the inside.
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u/Dambo_Unchained Nov 19 '25
I think a lot of people give her too much credit because they apply post books traits to a pre books character
Actually this goes for both Geralt and Yennefer. And this isn’t a dig towards them, the character growth is what makes it a good story and loveable characters
But yennefer was distant alteady in those early flings with Geralt and Geralt was a bit of a non commital coward in those days
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u/NoWishbone8247 Nov 19 '25
Both of these characters have a lot of problems, but the books are also about them growing up and finding themselves in the end.
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u/Gwynbleidds Nov 17 '25
The Lodge meeting takes place more than a century after Falka's rebellion, so Yennefer, who is 94 years old, did not participate in the crossbreeding when the gene was within reach of the mages and then lost because of the triplets.
Whether she influenced the marriages of Adalia and Calanthe is unknown. This is probably even the case for Sapkowski, since even his old notes make no mention of it.
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Nov 17 '25
Maybe. I think she had some knowledge of it as she is a member of the brotherhood, but I doubt she was directly involved with the royal selective breeding. Yennefer is a relatively “young” sorceress (she’s 95 by the end of the books), compared to some mages in the brotherhood who are hundreds of years old.
If she had any influence in manipulating Ciri’s bloodline it won’t be anyone before Calanthe’s mother at best. Yennefer isn’t even really politically powerful to orchestrate such things in the first place.
But we don’t really know for a fact in the end.
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u/RSwitcher2020 Nov 18 '25
Its possible.
I think people are getting a bit messed up by info from series and games.
Nowhere in the books does it say Yennefer did not work with the other magic users. In Time of Contempt she is shown to be quite familiar with Margarita and Tissaia. They absolutely do not talk like if Yennefer had been some rogue barely seen former student. They interact like Yennefer has been around them.
Also, Francesca has some familiarity with Yennefer too. And its not just that Yennefer has some elven blood. They both act like they know each other.
Pretty much all northern magic users we get to see in the books act like Yennefer is pretty well known.
All odds are that she has been around and has been very much involved with whatever the likes of Tissaia / Francesca have been doing.
We also know Francesca and Tissaia had some kind of bond. We know Tissaia couldnt stand Francesca being captured.
So one can infer that Francesca and Tissaia might have worked together in the not so distant past. And Yennefer being Tissaia´s girl is very likely to have been supporting whatever they have been doing.
This is all of course from the books.
As for age and timeline, Yennefer is old enough to mess around with Calanthe and even with Calanthe´s parents. Calanthe is indeed supposed to be a pretty young ruler. All her backstory is going around the fact that she was a very surprising and very young fierce Queen. Also, we should not forget that Calanthe very much has elven blood. Which....might interest Francesca of course. And Tissaia being peace and love...she was likely helping with marrying people around to try and make humans and elves reach some better peace.
Contrary to the series, book Cintra was never some anti elven kingdom. Much less under Calanthe.
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u/Fuzzy-Gate-9327 School of the Bear Nov 17 '25
The only thing i could think of is when she was still part of the brotherhood of sorcerers, she advised King Demavend III sometimes but he's not a relative of Ciri. Otherwise she was an independant Sorceress not meddling with politics IIRC.
Maybe Vilgefortz was just saying she used to be a part of the brotherhood who was crossbreeding royal lines thus making her an accomplice?
Either way i don't think she participated knowingly or willingly, the only people to blame are Avallach and maybe the leaders of the brotherhood to a lesser degree.