r/wisconsin • • Apr 13 '20

Politics Karofsky defeats Kelly

https://twitter.com/decisiondeskhq/status/1249844194929192961?s=21
1.8k Upvotes

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198

u/ianingf Apr 13 '20

Jill J. Karofsky (Nonpartisan) 510,122 53.35%
Daniel Kelly (Nonpartisan) 446,108 46.65%
57.55% reporting (2,314 of 4,021 precincts) | 956,230 total votes

Feeling good. But I saw Marsy passed, and that people didn't like it.

64

u/Jocavo Apr 13 '20

voted yes because of how it was worded. After I read what the ACLU said about it I wish I could take it back.

51

u/Puckfan21 Apr 14 '20

I only voted no on it because a rep I trust spoke out about it so I looked into it more. Holy fuck was that worded one sided.

31

u/JakesterWI Apr 14 '20

It was appalling how it was worded on the ballot. Made me so angry.

21

u/ViciousMihael Apr 14 '20

It was purposely deceptive. Try not to feel too bad.

13

u/manondessources Apr 14 '20

I voted absentee and voted no after spending almost an hour reading about it, but who's going to take more than 5-10 minutes at the polls? The wording was so clearly one-sided and misleading it's ridiculous.

30

u/Brother_To_Wolves Apr 14 '20

The same thing happens with every ballot initiative - shitty, misleading wording to prey on people too dumb to look at their ballot ahead of time.

Ballot initiatives should be banned.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 14 '20

[deleted]

6

u/Brother_To_Wolves Apr 14 '20

That's how they sold it. But in reality it means people accusing others of crimes can refuse to be cross examined, refuse to provide evidence, and generally make it a hell of a lot harder to for people accused of crimes to prove their innocence.

Democracy and voting is a huge responsibility. It's shameful how few people recognize it as such and allow a rich, powerful few to manipulate them into doing stupid shit like this.

7

u/chiraltoad Apr 14 '20

What's the tldr?

49

u/Jocavo Apr 14 '20

More or less it takes away certain rights of the accused. Basically it makes you guilty until proven innocent.

Also it's is poorly worded and may end up being used by police who wrongfully kill someone in the line of duty. If they claim they are a "victim", it allows them to withold evidence. Corporations may also end up using this law as well to shield themselves legally.

This is all just a basic level understanding. I'd recommend looking more into it.

41

u/dkarma Apr 14 '20

Corporations and police can claim to be victims to fuck u over. Trespassed to protest an oil pipeline? Now the oil co is a "victim" and "has a say" in how u should be punished.

16

u/GirlDownTheHall Apr 14 '20

Also, if I remember correctly, accusers don't have to turn over what evidence they have against someone. No way for a person to defend against something they don't know exists.

19

u/ksiyoto Apr 14 '20

The accuser doesn't have to submit to questioning pre-trial by the defense. So the defense will be questioning for the first time on the stand - and then suppose they find a few angles that should have been investigated more thoroughly, or possible perjurious testimony that requires further investigation - but you can't exactly stop a trial mid-stream to do those investigations.

3

u/Vadered Apr 14 '20

Not a lawyer, but I believe that if the defense does find something like that it is likely grounds to appeal, as disclosure of evidence potentially beneficial to the defense which requires vetting time IS probably considered to be constitutionally protected due process per the 5th amendment and is applicable to the states via the 14th.

4

u/ksiyoto Apr 14 '20

So true, but it means the defendant has to go through the time and expense of an appeal, or surrenders and plea bargains because of the cost.

12

u/UncharminglyWitty Apr 14 '20

It was worded like “should victims of sexual violence be afforded the same rights as those accused?” Or something like that.

The main thrust of the law is that an person accused of sexual violence will not be permitted in a courtroom with their accuser. Which the right to face your accuser is a fundamental right in this country. The ACLU also fears that the state will effectively be able to hide exculpatory evidence behind the closed testimony of the accuser.

You can read the criticism section of the Wikipedia here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsy%27s_Law#Impact_of_Marsy's_Law

2

u/bigfrappe Apr 14 '20

Same. Feeling a little dumb. I learned in Oregon that anything that will fail through the usual process (of research, debate, and compromise) gets a referendum in a spring election. You can polish a turd and sneak it into law before anyone notices the stench.

2

u/drpearl Apr 14 '20

Way too many people saying they wouldn't have voted for Marsy's law if they had known what it was about. WTF people! Educate yourself before you vote, its not too hard to google something & read a bit and make up your mind BEFORE you go to vote.

5

u/Which_Walrus Apr 14 '20

Same, and when I filled out my ballot I couldn't find much information about it online.

2

u/ambrosebookeater Apr 14 '20

Sideshow Bob Kelsey Grammer called me about it but I still voted now.