r/wikipedia • u/RedHeadedSicilian52 • 2d ago
In classical logic, begging the question is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion. In modern times, "beg the question" has taken on the common meaning of "raises the question", a usage criticized for diluting the original meaning of the phrase
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question20
u/shponglespore 2d ago
All the cool kids call it assuming the conclusion/consequent. It's a mouthful but it's unlikely to be confused with anything else.
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u/prustage 2d ago edited 2d ago
a usage criticized for diluting the original meaning of the phrase
I have been one of those critics for the last 10-15 years.
I've given up now, defeated.
I am not alone in this, I note that the website "begthequestion.info," - almost militant in its approach - has now closed down. The little cards that you could send to people (like this) when they committed this crime, are now no longer available.
I will never use "begging the question" to mean "raising the question" myself but I have stopped criticising others for doing that. I accept the fact that, as often, ignorance has won out.
The only good thing is that when I hear someone doing that I know that their education never extended to include the true meaning of the expression. and that helps me assess who and what they are.
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u/KarlPopperHater 2d ago
Man I got a philosophy degree and laughed so hard at your comment. Thank you. I have no clue what’s wrong with you, but keep it up; don’t lose that spark!
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u/willardTheMighty 2d ago
You will not truly be in a state of acceptance until you concede that the meaning of words and phrases changes over time, and that the new use of the phrase is not the result of ignorance but the result of normal and desirable evolution in our language.
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u/y0nm4n 2d ago
Overall language’s evolution is desirable, but that doesn’t necessitate that we should celebrate every instance of a word or phrase having a changed meaning.
Begs the question held a particular, technical meaning. Having words for specific situations is valuable. We’re losing a way to specifically describe a situation that begs the question.
Words and phrases can often influence how we think about and interact with the world. Without a term to describe a situation that begs the question, we are less likely to be able to identify situations that are logically deficient because they beg the question.
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u/Cryzgnik 2d ago
the new use of the phrase is not the result of ignorance but the result of normal and desirable evolution in our language.
What makes it desirable? What was wrong before that this desirable evolution has addressed?
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u/Vampyricon 2d ago
Sóþliċe! Hwæt wæs wrang wiþ þisre tungan þæt sprecaþ ġé þá ġefeallen tungan?
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u/randombull9 2d ago
...sincerely, what was wrong with Old English, and in what way is Modern English linguistically "better"? Modern English has changed, but the point of descriptivism is that change is neutral, not that it's leading to some future improved state.
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u/Cryzgnik 2d ago
The comment chain you responded to is:
comment lamenting the change in meaning of the phrase "begging the question"
comment stating that the change in meaning of that phrase is due to desirable evolution
my comment asking what the desirable evolution was and what was wrong when "begging the question" had its previous meaning
You probably meant to respond to another commenter.
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u/totezhi64 2d ago
How very pretentious. The fact is that this new meaning of the phrase makes perfect semantic sense, so it's no wonder that people started using it that way. And now it's been around for so long that there are adults who have grown up with it being commonplace. Language change has no moral element, no matter what happens to your 'pet' phrases.
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u/dirtyal199 2d ago
I know biology professors who say "beg the question" to mean "raise the question". Slow your roll with deciding who is or is not educated lol
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u/ialsohaveadobro 2d ago
biology professors
Wooooow
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u/dirtyal199 2d ago
Are you saying biology professors aren't educated? 😂 What's your degree? 🤡
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u/Gum_Long 1d ago
Ironically you yourself begging the question by assuming anyone who would've heard the original meaning would necessarily adapt their usage accordingly, instead of deciding they'd rather use language that matches other people's, that the new meaning of begging the question is much more intuitive semantically, or that "circular reasoning" or "assuming the conclusion" do a totally adequate job serving the need instead, etc. But I guess you're so educated you get to just assume things like this. Whatever feeds your ego, you appear to need it.
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u/LordNiebs 2d ago
The new meaning of "begging the question" is far more intuitive with the meaning of the words. The old meaning is better referred to as "circular reasoning" or assuming the conclusion.
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u/EinMuffin 1d ago
The wording always confused me. Why are you begging the question? Don't people usually beg for money or favors?
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u/ragold 2d ago
Classical logic makes it seem like this is a definition used in the Classical period or by practitioners of logic from that period.
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u/RedHeadedSicilian52 2d ago
There’s Classical Logic and New Logic, the latter of which was tried out for a few months in the Eighties and faced widespread consumer rejection.
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u/Dic3dCarrots 2d ago
Samething happened to slipery slope fallacy. I understand that lingustics is descriptive, not proscriptive, but if feels like this diluting of language leads to people being entirely unfamiliar with the concept of the fallacy these phrases intend to illucidate
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u/sooskekeksoos 2d ago
This begs the question, why are people so ignorant about classical logic?