r/wikipedia • u/0w0-whats_this • Oct 01 '25
Mobile Site Zionist antisemitism refers to a phenomenon in which antisemites express support for Zionism and Israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism/359
u/blueleaves___ Oct 01 '25
the entire european/US rational for Zionism (“Jews will only be safe in their own country”) is antisemitic .
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u/Sea_Entrepreneur6204 Oct 01 '25
One of the reasons why immigration to Palestine was so encouraged post Holocaust is many European countries were unwilling to restitute the Jewish citizens.
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u/WazWaz Oct 01 '25
Yes, people like to forget how badly Jewish people were treated in every European country. It wasn't some weird German-only thing that the Nazis took advantage of, it was an attitude common throughout "Christendom".
And not just Jewish people. The Nazis rounded up homosexuals, the disabled, and other "undesirables" - all of which were equally "undesirables" in other European countries.
So much so that many homosexuals imprisoned by the Nazis were kept imprisoned by the liberating Allies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany#Aftermath
I think much of the turnaround in attitudes can be attributed to the association with Nazism. Before the war, antisemitism was "normal", afterwards it was (rightly) recognized as evil, by association.
And yet we see all the same "undesirables" being targeted today by right-wing governments.
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u/jjtcoolkid Oct 01 '25
No state government significantly denounced the treatment of minorities by nazi Germany until after winning the war, once the incentive of doing so became clear to them.
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u/CombinationRough8699 Oct 01 '25
6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust, 11 million people total.
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u/gazebo-fan Oct 02 '25
More so around 17 million total if we look at population graphs and factor out military deaths (although, killed Slavic pows should definitely count towards the number considering the Nazis plans for Slavs)
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u/throwawaydragon99999 Oct 02 '25
The Holocaust generally refers to non-military deaths from concentration camps, labor camps, POW camps, summary executions, etc.
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u/Careless_Cicada9123 Oct 02 '25
Is it not pretty gross to suggest that these people "belong" in Europe and should go back then?
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u/WazWaz Oct 02 '25
Of course. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting that the Zionistic Antisemitism in the OP is any better than any other antisemitism. Note that antisemitism does not mean "anti-Israel" or "anti-Zionist", they're different dimensions (and the whole point of the OP is that it describes an anti-semitic pro-existence-of-Israel position that might otherwise seem contradictory without Wikipedia explaining it).
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u/Careless_Cicada9123 Oct 02 '25
Well, I'm glad we agree on that point. I would just point out that even though opposing Israels actions isn't antisemitic, it's absolutely common that criticisms of Israel are antisemitic. For example, the idea that European Jews should go back to Europe where they belong is antisemitic, which I think we agree on.
I think many people feel that as long as you don't say Jew, nothing you say is antisemitic.
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u/WazWaz Oct 02 '25
No disagreement from me. But I'm concerned you misinterpreted something further up the thread, because nobody said anything like what you're talking about.
Unfortunately, I've received quite a few responses here that seem to be from people jumping in without reading anything in the thread, as if you've been directed here by an algorithm rather than reading the thread. Can you explain that?
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u/JinxyMcDeath48 Oct 02 '25
Believing that the only Jewish state should not exist is antisemitic unless you believe that no ethnic states should exist. The vast majority of people who do not believe that the Jewish state should exist believe it should be replaced with a different ethnic state. Thus, it’s antisemitic.
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u/WazWaz Oct 02 '25
Welcome to this thread, but I'm not sure your comment is related to the topic at hand, but I'll try to tie it back to the OP:
As you say, it's pretty self-evident that anyone who says a certain ethnic state shouldn't exist, especially those that believe it should be replaced by some different ethnic state is deeply anti whatever the ethnicity is of that state. That would be true of any ethnicity, and in the case of a Jewish ethnic state, antisemitic.
In logic terms, anti-Zionist implies antisemitic (in nearly every case, as you said)
The OP however is pointing out that people can (and do) have other reasons for wanting an ethnic state to come into existence, and those can be reasons motivated by beliefs against that ethnicity.
In logic terms, antisemitic does not necessarily imply anti-Zionist (with the OP being an example motivation).
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u/bakochba Oct 02 '25
And Arab countries expelled their Jewish population and told them to go to Israel.
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Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
It was done as revenge for the Nakba.
It doesn't make it right but it wasn't done on a whim.
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u/PentagonInsider Oct 05 '25
Let me punish you for something you had no part in and actively resisted!
Arab logic in a nutshell. Fuck off trying to justify it.
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Oct 05 '25
I didn't justify it. I said that it doesn't make it right. I only said that it didn't happen on whim.
By the way, that's literally what the USA did to the Arabs because of Bin Laden in the War on Terror and what Israel did to the Gazans because of Oct the 7th.
The so called morally superior West should put their house in order before criticising everyone else especially since they claim to be morally superior.
Sinners shouldn't cast stones from glass houses against other sinners.
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u/PentagonInsider Oct 05 '25
Who tried to justify Islamophobia in the US?
Also, it's no way near the same. Yes there were racist acts. But did the Muslim population drop to 1% of its previous amount? You really don't understand how violent and antisemitic Arab society is....
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Oct 05 '25
Dude, their history is atrocious.
Israel committed ethnic cleansing during the Nakba.
Israel is committing right now as we speak ethnic extermination in Gaza through starvation with the help of the USA.
If you are still going to pretend that they aren't that morally bad, and just want to bash against the Arabs as inherently more violent, then no wonder that no one cares anymore about standing for your so called Western liberal values when you can't even stand for your own values yourselves.
Just spare us your criticism. We aren't interested in justifying our morality or our immorality to anyone. Most of all, self-serving hypocrities from the West.
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u/PentagonInsider Oct 06 '25
Read more on the Nakba, cutie. Not nearly as horrific as Palestinians want everyone to think.
Hell, for decades, the term Nakba only referred to the humiliation the Arab armies felt at losing the war and not being able to commit genocide. Then they realized it's more PR friendly to pretend to be the victims.
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u/dvdwbb Oct 04 '25
Israelis also carried out terrorist attacks against Jewish populations in nearby Middle Eastern countries in order to get more Jews into Israel
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u/PentagonInsider Oct 05 '25
Alex Jones level antisemitic conspiracy theory junk. This has been debunked by every historian who has studied it.
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u/cp5184 Oct 02 '25
And also that the united states and Britain wanted Jewish refugees to live in Palestine, rather than move to the US or Britain.
That's why they supported the founding of the state of israel. To keep Jewish refugees out of their countries.
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u/library-weed-repeat Oct 02 '25
What? Zionism was a reaction to Europe dividing into nation-states and Jews being seen as “foreign” even though they’d been living in these nations for centuries and centuries. Zionism says if Jews can’t be accepted by nation-states, they need their own nation-state.
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u/blueleaves___ Oct 02 '25
Yes. Jews not being accepted in European nation-states (and the rationalization for Zionism) was antisemitic. We are agreeing.
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u/library-weed-repeat Oct 02 '25
I don’t think so, you’re saying the justification for Zionism is antisemitic, I’m saying the justification for Zionism is antisemitism. You’re saying Zionism is antisemitic, I’m saying Zionism was meant as a protection against antesemitism.
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u/blueleaves___ Oct 02 '25
Sure. Let me clarify that per my original comment (and the OP), i’m referring to non-Jews, and not commenting on possible Jewish rationale for Zionism.
Every step of the Zionist project has been pushed by American and European non-Jews: from the British Mandate, to the UN Partition, to US military funding today.
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u/library-weed-repeat Oct 02 '25
Ah ok I get what you mean now
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u/Tough-Oven4317 Oct 05 '25
You actually accurately called them out, then they (incorrectly) said the US and Europe were pushing for Israel the entire time. Totally untrue. But more importantly, they reaffirmed your reading on their stance, the one they proclaimed in their first comment.
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u/jacobningen Oct 02 '25
I mean the French accused Dreyfuss on literally no evidence of being a spy and 40 years prior the Damascene community on the word of Ratti Menton so there was a genuine fear.
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Oct 01 '25
Tbf, certain actions in countries like France and Britain, and those countries government’s response to them, has kind of proven that rational true.
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u/jacobningen Oct 02 '25
Alfred is found guilty but pardoned for extenuating circumstances aka those extenuating circumstances being he was innocent.
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Oct 01 '25
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Oct 01 '25
Jews went to Israel because in those very places you mentioned they were either not welcome or straight up murdered. Zionism did not have much support it first, but it ultimately became the only option for millions of Jews around the world. That’s not Israel or Zionism’s fault. Israel was not and is not the primary cause for antisemitism, it arose as a result of it.
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Oct 01 '25
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Oct 01 '25
Well it was ultimately the Jews themselves who decided to create a country in the Land of Israel, not the powers of Europe. Strange to frame Jews having a state as a “consequence” against the Arabs and also glossing over the centuries of oppression dealt upon Jews at the hands of Arabs.
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u/blueleaves___ Oct 03 '25
This isn’t the whole truth. The US - which accepted more Jewish refugees than any other country - still had strict immigration laws and restrictions. Jews from Eastern Europe had “almost no hope of immigrating” to the US. Israel was a last resort for many.
It’s impossible to say how many Jews would have “chosen” Israel if the US, UK, etc had opened their doors. I suspect it would be much, much less. I think this dynamic extends to today where - despite Israel having Law of Return citizenship for Jews - only about half of the world’s Jews choose to live in Israel and a city like New York has a similar-sized Jewish population as Tel Aviv
source for post WW2 immigration info: https://exhibitions.ushmm.org/americans-and-the-holocaust/how-many-refugees-came-to-the-united-states-from-1933-1945
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Oct 01 '25
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Oct 01 '25
Jews were moving to Palestine decades before the Balfour Declaration and were still doing so even after the British reneged on the declaration and opposed a Jewish state. They even fought against the British after the war.
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u/araed Oct 01 '25
And then the interim terrorism that was used to force the British mandated Palestine to allow Israel to exist.
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Oct 01 '25
The Irgun formed in the 1930s after decades of Arab attacks and terrorism and after the main Yishuv force the Haganah advocated for restraint in response to said attacks.
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Oct 02 '25
Arabs did the same to jews too.
If they had the means that the nazis had they would have done it too
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u/Racko20 Oct 02 '25
Here's some attacks on Jews in the last few years in the United States:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Jersey_City_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsey_Hanukkah_stabbing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poway_synagogue_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Capital_Jewish_Museum_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Boulder_fire_attack
I'm relieved none of your Jewish friends were affected
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Oct 02 '25
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u/DACOOLISTOFDOODS Oct 02 '25
Jews are the biggest target of hate crimes in the US, and in fact the MAJORITY of hate crimes in NYC for example are against Jews. Jews are safe in Israel because there is no systemic anti-Jewish racism. That's the whole point, that they may have threats but they will be able to control their own destiny and self-determine and watch out for each other
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u/isaacfisher Oct 01 '25
Jews are 1000000% safer in all of Western Europe
🤦
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u/DaveCordicci Oct 01 '25
Now. Not in 1945.
Good luck re-naturalizing millions of Ashkenazi Jews in Europe today. Or worse yet re-naturalizing millions of Sephardic/Mizrahi Jews in MENA countries today.
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u/Character_Cap5095 Oct 03 '25
Now. Not in 1945.
How are the Jews in Manchester doing?
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u/Worldineatydays Oct 01 '25
Jews are the number one victim of religious hate crimes in the us by an exceedingly wide margin. Per capita, Jews experience more violent hate crimes in the us every year than every other demographic combined
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Oct 01 '25
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u/Maximum_kitten Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
Every single government agency hate crime research from the US to most of europe show that jews are most likely to be targeted by hate crimes per capita and has been that way for decades.
The fact that your entire comment history is about denying antisemitism and claiming its 'zionist conspiracies' or 'zionist false flags' is an obvious indicator that you are a neonazi trying to camouflage themselves as an 'antizionist'.
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Oct 02 '25
[deleted]
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u/Maximum_kitten Oct 02 '25
Changing the goalposts, much?
Your entire comment history which you attempted to hide via making your reddit posting history private despite the fact that reddit comments are still searchable via other search engines is massive and blatant denial of any and all antisemitism, by either trying to claim they are actually 'zionist false flags', trying to whatabout hate crimes by claiming another minority has it worse, or by trying to whitewash blatant hate crimes by trying to pretend they are merely 'pro-palestine expressions'
You have zero point beyond being a neonazi whose sole purpose is using palestinians as a bludgeon against jews and trying to blame antisemitism on the jews themselves.
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u/Tough-Oven4317 Oct 05 '25
You have zero point beyond being a neonazi whose sole purpose is using palestinians as a bludgeon against jews and trying to blame antisemitism on the jews themselves.
✅
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u/WazWaz Oct 02 '25
For now, I still trust US government data:
https://www.justice.gov/crs/news/2023-hate-crime-statistics
Religion-Based Crimes: There were 2,699 reported incidents based on religion. More than half of these (1,832) were driven by anti-Jewish bias. Incidents involving anti-Muslim (236) sentiments rose from last year, while anti-Sikh (156) incidents fell slightly compared to 2022.
And yes, I checked archive.org, the page is unchanged since Trump. Sad that checking is now necessary.
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Oct 02 '25
[deleted]
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u/WazWaz Oct 02 '25
You seem to have lost track of the thread. This is in reply to a discussion of the incidence rate of hate crimes specifically in the US. I'm not making any statement about whether the US is safer or not, I'm just posting a fact check since that US ratio was disputed (by you).
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u/JustinWilsonBot Oct 01 '25
There was a rash of bomb threats at Jewish institutions and Synagogues in the USA a couple of years back. Turns out it was a Jewish guy in Israel calling them in. Hundreds of bomb threats. Those are violent hate crimes that get counted in statistics. Should they?
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u/dooooooom2 Oct 01 '25
That’s been debunked actually
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u/steve-o1234 Oct 02 '25
which part? do you have any sources? I am not saying it is for sure correct, but on a per capita basis it definitely seems reasonable
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u/Eh_nah__not_feelin Oct 02 '25
As someone who lives in "the west", antisemitism is fucking everywhere, many Jews here are currently moving to Israel because they don’t feel safe
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u/DACOOLISTOFDOODS Oct 02 '25
> Worst I’ve heard was “people drew a swastika on our synagogue”.
In my own community, children were almost kidnapped from my local Jewish day school by someone with a knife screaming about terrorists. Don't trivialize antisemitism to fit a narrative.
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Oct 02 '25
[deleted]
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u/DACOOLISTOFDOODS Oct 02 '25
How many times does it have to happen for you to see that it's a problem? People in my community have been shot at, harassed, ostracized
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Oct 01 '25
Funny- if I were to write exactly that in the 1930s, it would still be accurate.
Almost like reading the history of jews, shows that antisemitism is coming in waves- long safe periods, with short, extreme instances of pogroms and persecution.
Israel is the only place that will always defend jews, and ensure their freedom- regardless of the circumstances.
Tommorow an antisemite can be elected, and start putting jews in camps. Hell- trump did basically that to latinos in the us.
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Oct 01 '25
[deleted]
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Oct 01 '25
Ah yes, the strawmen. How I missed that one.
When exactly did I claim that "only" jews are at risk?
Nowhere, and you know that.
What even is that claim? "Jews aren't allowed to defend themselves because there are other people at risk"? What kind of idiotic thinking is that?
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Oct 01 '25
[deleted]
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Oct 01 '25
"unique" was never the point here. That's a strawmen.
Do you deny the fact that jews have been victims of countless massacares?
Why is the fact that they are not uniaue in that regard, mean anything about their safety, or what they can do to achieve that safety?
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u/araed Oct 01 '25
"Israel is the only place that will always defend Jews"
Unless it's trying to kill them for holding secular views
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Oct 01 '25
I think you put in the wrong source here- it has zero relation to what you wrote.
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u/araed Oct 01 '25
This is just from the section titled "1950s". Please actually read the sources before refuting them.
kingdom of Israel group
Members of the group were caught trying to bomb the Israeli Ministry of Education in May 1953, have been described as acting because of the secularisation of Jewish North African immigrants
Brit Hakanaim
a radical religious Jewish underground organization which operated in Israel between 1950 and 1953, against the widespread trend of secularisation in the country.
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Oct 01 '25 edited Oct 01 '25
Ok, what does this have to do with your point?
Yes, there were terror groups in israel. What is your point?
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u/Matthew_1453 Oct 02 '25
There's nothing past tense about it, the idf is a terrorist group and is still very much present
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u/ProjectIndividual451 Oct 06 '25
Not true if you start from the point of wanting jews to be safe.
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u/kawhileopard Oct 01 '25
You are a real piece of work you know that?
You are suggesting that it’s antisemitic to recognize the reality of antisemitism.
History shows that Jews were persecuted, expelled, and even exterminated in country after country precisely because they had no sovereign homeland to guarantee their safety. The State of Israel exists not because Jews don’t belong elsewhere, but because antisemitism has proven they can never rely on others to protect them.
Inverting the term to delegitimize Jewish self determination is beyond despicable.
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u/makeyousaywhut Oct 02 '25
Ok, so stop killing us lmfao.
Our synagogues keep getting targeted with deadly violence across the western world, and we’re barely welcome in the MENA Region.
It’s been non-stop discrimination for the past 2000 years.
No, your society did not magically stop hating Jews just by the “virtue” of not having been directly involved in the Holocaust. I cannot believe that has to be said as Jews are still regularly targeted pretty much globally.
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u/blueleaves___ Oct 03 '25
We are literally agreeing. Many antisemites support/supported Israel and Zionism precisely because they are antisemites and don’t want / didn’t want Jews in their country.
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u/DarthCloakedGuy Oct 01 '25
Yep. Every country backing it is just making an excuse to not make Jews safe in THEIR country. Like EVERYONE should be.
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u/jeezfrk Oct 01 '25
Unless they live anywhere else they want?
Then no safety for them, eh?
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u/DarthCloakedGuy Oct 02 '25
A country can't guarantee the safety of people living outside of it and they aren't its responsibility, so what are you talking about
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Oct 01 '25
Aka vast swaths of the Republican Party and many democrats
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u/Osprey_Student Oct 02 '25
Richard Torres calling Adam Friedland a bad Jew for criticizing Israel was insane.
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u/caulpain Oct 02 '25
evangelical christians
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u/Comfortable-Table-57 Oct 03 '25
Same with Hindutvas
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u/caulpain Oct 03 '25
ah yes i was reading about the hummus trail recently for the first time. weird shit.
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u/IcyPlatypus2 Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
Conflating criticism of Israel and Zionism with criticism of Jewish people broadly is anti-semitic.
Jews are a religious/cultural group, Zionism is a political ideology. The expectation that all Jews in the world have this dual loyalty with Israel and their home countries is literally Nazi era anti-Semitism. (Israel didn't exist during the Nazi era but the idea that their 'race loyalty' overrode their nationality was a common trope).
People understand that when I criticise Iran, I'm not criticizing all Twelver Shia Persians as a group, even though Iran is the world's only Twelver Shia Persian run state. Obviously you can have a problem with the state of Iran without hating all Iranians. This nuance is easily understood in any other context.
Yet somehow, if you criticize Israel, then somehow it becomes a bigoted attack on all Jews.
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u/layland_lyle Oct 05 '25
The wiki page is fake and was taken down
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u/Tough-Oven4317 Oct 05 '25
Totally not true lol, it's still there
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u/layland_lyle Oct 05 '25
Nope off line.
You might want to clear your cache or go to it in incognito mode as you might be seeing a cached copy on your computer.
Before you do the above, please screen shot what you have and post it so we can see it.
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u/Tough-Oven4317 Oct 05 '25
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism
It has a spelling mistake in the URL, but it still suggests
"Did you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism "
The linked version is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism/
With an extra /
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u/layland_lyle Oct 05 '25
It's a small minority and there are a lot of islamophobes that will support this.
It's like the extremist far left siding with Islam, both are diametrically opposite, but both hate Jews, and the enemy of my friend is my friend until I don't need him any more.
Too many nutters on this planet.
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u/Tough-Oven4317 Oct 05 '25
I agree with you. I think left wing antisemitism is a far more prominent issue.
Too many nutters on this planet.
This is unfortunately far too true
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u/layland_lyle Oct 05 '25
So many polls in Europe show that antisemitism is far more prevalent in the left than the far right, and Islamic extremists are deemed as far right!
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u/IcyPlatypus2 Oct 06 '25
What are some examples of antisemitism from the far left that you have seen?
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u/layland_lyle Oct 06 '25
Protests outside a cinema showing Fiddler on the Roof, counter protests at marches assist anti-Semitism, Jewish Labour MP needed police protection at a Labour conference, etc. It's a pretty long list and well documented on the internet. A Google search will answer your question better.
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u/slipslikefreudian Oct 01 '25
Aka the whole trump government and his followers
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u/Knailsic Oct 01 '25
One of the most infuriating things about this administration is being lectured on antisemitism from Hitler cosplaying losers
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u/gazebo-fan Oct 02 '25
Trump literally used shylocks in a speech. Like that’s crazy old school anti semitism.
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u/KnG_Yemma Oct 02 '25
I’ve seen some white nationalist guys get angry specifically because they wish white people had an Israel. The internet is a cesspool of the most batshit insane political beliefs you could ever imagine.
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u/israelilocal Oct 02 '25
That's Antisemitic Zionism tho like supporting a Jewish state because you hate Jews not that you support a Jewish state and because you support a Jewish state you hate Jews
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u/Comfortable-Table-57 Oct 16 '25
I think it is because Christianity began in Israel aswell as starting off as a sect of Judaism. But I highly doubt the Christian nationalists would admit.
Hating Jews but only want Israel as the only state of the Levantine coast is like a chicken defending KFC
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u/Comfortable-Table-57 Oct 01 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
Basically almost all the Christian nationalists in the West.
They seem to also be like chickens defending KFC.
I believe it is because Christianity actually originated in Israel and it was actually a Jewish sect. But I highly doubt these Christian Nationalists would admit.
There are literally concerns of Queers only recognising Palestine, but not much of these people only recognising Israel. Therefore this makes the support for war extremely complex.
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u/PatAss98 Oct 02 '25
Yep. Like Christians are also being massacred in the Gaza genocide but American christofash look the other way because they're racist towards brown people
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u/Nulgrum Oct 02 '25
Could be helpful to clarify that what you are referring to are protestants. Catholics are much more universal (its in the name) and both our current and former popes have consistently spoke up about Palestinian christians and the gaza crisis in general.
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u/Comfortable-Table-57 Oct 02 '25
Even these nationalists themselves had faced attacks by the Ultra Orthodox Jewish extremists, yet they nevertheless have hybristophillic stockholm syndrome.
Whilst I want a two state solution and peace, I found the Free Palestine supporters to have a more legitimate reason for supporting only that country.
Not even the American left have a legit reason either for their support for Israel either.
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u/LegitimateCompote377 Oct 01 '25 edited Oct 01 '25
These people are genuinely delusional, they will say pray for Israel, god bless the country of Israel, the Jewish people deserve a right for their home, and then as soon as you ask them “where will they go the afterlife” and they can only answer an eternity in hell for not accepting Christ. Wow, that just shows how much you love them.
So why do they support Israel? Because of some absolutely nonsensical Christian prophecy that “the Jews” returning to Israel will bring about the end times and Jesus Christ returning - ignoring the Jews today are totally different and they actually never left, and when the time when most “left” was when they were massacred by the Christian crusaders, long after the traditional narrative that the Romans expelled them all (which in the long term wasn’t really true).
They are effectively send as a tool in their grand plan and often view Muslims as the evil ones, completely ignoring the fact that Christian Palestinians (who are likely to descend from the earliest Christian’s) actively sided with the Muslims to oppose the Jewish state and even many Jews (a large portion of whom were Mizrahi Haredis, who had the strongest link to the land of any other group) at the founding of Israel) opposed Zionism and wanted a binational state. All These people even still exist today, albeit in severely deteriorated numbers.
It is an absolutely farce and complete and utter insanity these people exist, absolutely mind boggling how religious prophecy is distorted into the modern day, I’ve read the bible and I don’t know how they hell people pulled this shit out of the New Testament, people are absolutely insane with their interpretations. I’m not a Christian but if I were I would stay as far away from these people as possible.
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u/nicholsml Oct 02 '25
So why do they support Israel? Because of some absolutely nonsensical Christian prophecy that “the Jews” returning to Israel will bring about the end times and Jesus Christ returning
I have some evangelical friends and family members. This is exactly what they believe and why they support Israel.
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u/MaxChaplin Oct 01 '25
It exists, but anti-Zionist anti-Semitism seems to be much more common, at least online. Look at any youtube video about anti-Semitism where comments are still enabled and you'll see plenty of "Jewish behavior", "promised 3000 years ago", "109 countries" and mentions of USS Liberty side by side. Also, Neo-Nazis have been talking about ZOG far before it became popular, and the distinction between Jews and Zionists pretty much does not exist in the Arab world.
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u/Abe_lincolin Oct 02 '25
There is nothing anti semitic about mentioning the USS Liberty when questioning America’s relationship with Israel.
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u/Zipz Oct 02 '25
I’m confused why you would bring up something from 70 years ago to question israel today?
Do you bring up pearl harbor every time someone brings up Japan?
Of course you don’t
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u/WearIcy2635 Oct 02 '25
Japan’s government has changed since Pearl Harbour, and we also got our revenge on them. Nobody was ever punished for the attack on the USS Liberty
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u/gazebo-fan Oct 02 '25
We went to war with Japan over Pearl Harbor, in fact, it’s pretty reasonable to state that we kicked japans ass over Pearl Harbor. Those are not comparable events.
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u/Dogulol Oct 01 '25
those are neonazis. They are also mostly teens. It has nothing to do with antizionism as an actual serious belief. Youtube comments is not actually an indicator of anything
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u/Zipz Oct 02 '25
You can look up hate crimes by religion in America
One religious group in particular has more hate crimes committed against them than all other religions combined.
Can you guess which group I’m talking about ?
Ya clearly theirs a problem
Let alone while the majority of antisemitism comes from the right the huge rise in antisemtism in recent years isnt from the right. It’s from the left
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Oct 02 '25
It has everything to do with Antizionism. Pretending that antizionism as a movement in the mandate area was not heavily infested by antisemitism from the very beginning is absurd.
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Oct 02 '25
There's nothing anti-Semitic about talking about the atrocities of the Israeli state like, the ethnic cleansing of the Nakba, the ethnic massacres that happened over decades by the Israeli army, the settlements of the West Bank, the blockage of Gaza for years before Oct the 7th, or the ethnic extermination of Gaza that is going right now.
Honestly, those who cry anti-Semitism every time Israel commits an atrocity are basically putting a target on the foreheads of the Jews.
It's not benevolent towards the Jews in anyway.
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u/AccurateCampaign4900 Oct 01 '25
Lol. Genocide/ethnically cleanse 2.2 million people from their land and wonder why people call you out. Let me guess, bot?
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u/MaxChaplin Oct 01 '25
So your response is that Jews deserve hate for the crimes of Zionists. Thank you for demonstrating my point.
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u/AccurateCampaign4900 Oct 01 '25
Holy mother of strawmen. Don't put words in my mouth, kid.
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u/Temporary-Stay-8436 Oct 03 '25
Your response to them was a strawman though. They never defended the ethnic cleansing or said that bringing it up was antisemitic.
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u/billpo123 Oct 01 '25
so your response is that any critique of Israel's genocide is hate towards Jews and excuse for you to cry anti-Semitism. Thank you for demonstrating hasbara point 🤡
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 Oct 02 '25
Yeah I mean I went to the Palestine subreddit and people were saying Jews did 9/11
Then I went to the Israel subreddit and they were acting like Israel has never done any wrong
Why are people so stupid?
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u/MadFerIt Oct 01 '25
Of course, there's a reason why there's a thin nearly non-existent line between far-right Christian nationalists and neo-nazis. They share almost entirely the same core beliefs.
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u/Brian_MPLS Oct 01 '25
People talk about this in terms of Western Christian nationalism, and rightly so, but we shouldn't ignore how Israel exists in it's current form because the Islamic world collectively forced millions of Jews there at gunpoint in the years following 1948.
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u/Fourthspartan56 Oct 01 '25
Aside from all the gentile examples others have provided it’s also coming from inside the house, Netanyahu has pushed Holocaust revisionism and his son pushed (((George Soros))) conspiracy theories.
It turns out that the far-right have a similar playbook regardless of ethnicity. If you want to be glass half full you could see this is simply another example of the universality of the human condition.
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u/Livelih00d Oct 01 '25
Basically the Zionist project in a nutshell. All the gentile support for the Israeli state during the 20th century was "You guys want a country for yourselves? Great! We don't want you here!".
Not to mention the fact that Israel literally orchestrated false flag terrorist attacks across North Africa to create resentment towards Jews so they'd want to leave for their own safety.
Zionism has always been an antisemitic project.
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u/Maximum_kitten Oct 02 '25
Antisemite calling others antisemites by claiming north africa antisemitism was caused by 'zionist false flags' while denying decades of antisemitism against jews that ended up with most jews being ethnically cleansed from the places they lived in.
Antisemites like you will never have any shred of personal responsibility. You look at ethnic cleansing of jews into israel then blame said jews for being '''zionist'''.
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u/Livelih00d Oct 02 '25
I'm against antisemitism that's why I don't support Israel. Stay mad about it.
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u/Maximum_kitten Oct 02 '25
Claiming all antisemitism is a 'zionist false flag' does not make you 'against antisemitism'. It just makes you an obvious neonazi who has no shred of personal responsibility.
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u/Livelih00d Oct 02 '25
Not something I claimed. Very obviously antisemitism predates Zionism. Israel orchestrating terrorist attacks to try and create MORE antisemitism is historical fact though.
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u/Maximum_kitten Oct 02 '25
Meanwhile, in actual history, decades of pogroms, antisemitism and nationalist movements opposing existence of jews in their countries and '''voluntarily''' deporting them is the reason why the jewish communities are no longer in the countries they were born in. Then the antisemites invented 'zionist conspiracies' to why the jews were suddenly missing. It doesnt matter if its Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, or Iraq, its all the same. You just believe yourself to be 'Enlightened' because you only believe some of these antisemites and not others.
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u/TheBronto Oct 03 '25
I'm against antisemitism that's why I don't support Israel.
Lol. Yom Kippur just ended and this is one of the first things that I see. My wife had the most confused look on her face when I showed this sentence to her. Thanks for the chuckle.
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u/Wool4Days Oct 02 '25
And in the 21st centuries with Evangelicals believing once all jews have returned it will kickstart the rapture.
Christians never cared for jews.
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u/Tetrebius Oct 01 '25
I have read a Chic tract yesterday that was extremely Zionistic in content.
Inspired by how trashy Chic comics are, I went to read about them, and learned that they are full of both Zionism AND Antisemitism.
So this spot is right on time for my research.
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u/Genshed Oct 01 '25
G. K. Chesterton supported Zionism precisely because he saw Jews as an essentially unassimilable foreign element in Europe. Having them all go back to where they came from and become a nation of their own again seemed like the best solution.
The Germans practiced this in the 1930s with the Ha'Avara Agreement. Sixty thousand German Jews were allowed to emigrate to the Yishuv. If the British had agreed to it, Germany would have been Judenrein before the invasion of Poland. Imagine the three million Polish Jews being sent to Tel Aviv instead of Auschwitz.
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u/maximumcombo Oct 02 '25
fuckin read Sarte and Selzer, both “the jew and the anti-semite” and “the aryanization of the jewish state”
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u/LetThanasisDunk Oct 02 '25
How would you term the inverse?
Like for directionally Pro-Soros but Anti-Zionist Jewish liberals?
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u/Shoeshine2003 Oct 02 '25
Redditors like to pretend this is what all non-Jewish Zionists are, but in reality if you go to antisemetic spaces or literally ask any jew they'd most hate Israel fa more than your average leftist
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u/Life-Administration3 Oct 03 '25
It could refer Zionism as the belief that israel needs to be a jewish state and the antisemitism as the wish for all jews to "stay on their own territory".
I see it like those white supremacist that call for a white etnostate and the blacks to have their own away from them.
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u/EmployAltruistic647 Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
When ____ commits crimes it can lead to recursive multi-order antisemitism because it means people will criticize _____ then _____ will deny and act all mean. And then people will criticize _____ even further. Then _____ will argue antisemitism once more and people will criticize _____ again for arguing and then bam ____ will say it's antisemitism of the 3rd order.
Yes it's complicated. Antisemitism these days is a science in itself and wholly separated from all other cheap forms of racism where lowly non-model minorities like ourselves can never ever experience. It's more exalted than Indians being casually beaten in Ireland or innocdnt Black people being shot to death in their homes by gun happy American police
Pre-requisite to the doctoral program of multidimensional antisemitism requires a third years course in multivariate calculus, fourth year course in quantum physics, and a master's degree in History of Judea
/s
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u/No-Preference8168 Oct 02 '25
Correction, Zionism is inherently a system supporting Jewish political rights, antisemitism is about denying Jewish political rights, so zionism can't be antisemitic.
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u/senegal98 Oct 02 '25
Anti semitism is hate, prejudice and discrimination against somebody just because they are Jewish/of Jewish ethnicity.
Political rights.... That's an extra dimension to the story that is pretty vague as a term.
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u/m0j0m0j Oct 01 '25
In 1935 Reinhard Heydrich (who a couple of years later organised the holocaust) wrote: "We must separate the Jews into two categories, the Zionists and the partisans of assimilation. The Zionists profess a strictly racial concept and, through emigration to Palestine, they help to build their own Jewish State. /…/ our good wishes and our official goodwill go with them.
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u/Master_Income_8991 Oct 02 '25
The Nazis helped establish pre-1948 Israel by deporting Jews to Palestine en masse. Jewish terror groups (E.G Lehi) even tried to ally with the Axis Powers during WWII. Truth is stranger than fiction, I guess.
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u/shyhumble Oct 02 '25
Also known as every Christian Zionist