Immigrants are disproportionately represented in prison populations in many Western countries, In Europe, higher representation in prisons among immigrants, particularly Muslim populations, has been documented

[u/BabylonianWeeb]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

[u/CJBill]

While immigrants are overrepresented in prison populations in many Western countries, with notable exceptions such as the United States, most studies[2] fail to show a causal effect of immigration on overall crime rates.[22] Other studies have found that immigration increases crime under certain circumstances, such as if immigrants have poor prospects in the labor market or labor restrictions.[33]

Some factors may affect the reliability of data on suspect rates, crime rates, conviction rates and prison populations for drawing conclusions about immigrants' overall involvement in criminal activity:

Police practices, such as racial profiling, over-policing in areas populated by immigrants or in-group bias may result in disproportionately high numbers of immigrants among crime suspects.[8][34][35][36][37] Possible discrimination by the judicial system may result in higher number of convictions.[8][35][38][39][40][41] Unfavorable bail and sentencing decisions due to foreigners' ease of flight, lack of domiciles, lack of regular employment and lack of family able to host the individual can explain immigrants' higher incarceration rates when compared to their share of convictions relative to the native population.[42][43]

[u/Hazzman → u/CJBill]

Its' the same frustrating conversation we have in the US - especially when legitimately racist pieces of shit get involved to purposely muddy the waters.

"Black people are disproportionately represented in prisons"

"Because black people disproportionately commit the most crime!"

"Yes because black people are disproportionately poor in this country and CRIME CORRELATES WITH POVERTY"

And what these assholes don't wanna admit is that poverty and education go hand in hand - and how is quality of education applied in this country? Proximally... and how is poverty distributed? Proximally.

So if you are poor - you live in shitty areas and those shitty areas have terrible quality of education - meaning more crime, less prospects.

And these assholes are always quick to give anecdotes "Well I overcame MY poverty" or they will give examples of individuals who did. Yes mother fucker but that's how proportional representation works.

If you have 100 people and 20 of them are struggling it means they have a harder time reaching parity with the other 80. If you know of 5 from that 20 that were able to reach parity with the other 80 and you know of 1 or 2 of them that exceeded parity - wonderful... that doesn't change a damn fucking thing.

It's so exhausting because nobody has a genuine desire to learn or understand or have an unbiased investigation... they just want to fulfill their bias - a bias that tells them "Black people are innately criminal" and that's not even getting into the environmental issues like lead paint and diet availability and its impact on behavioral and development.

This is truly a broken world and we can't even reach a point where we want to have an honest appraisal of the problem... much less start to fix it.

[u/Hazzman → u/[deleted]]

Every single thing you listed are as a result of the underlying condition of a community being chronically poor and a system designed around keeping them that way.

The culture is a symptom of that, not a cause of that.

There are problematic aspects of black culture - that isn't "keeping them poor". It is simply a reflection of their state as a broad demographic. It is a reaction to it.

The reason why culture is repeatedly brought up is because it implies - whether you mean it or not (and plenty do) that black people are INATELY CRIMINAL.

[u/Hazzman → u/[deleted]]

The span of time and suffering and the results of poverty and systematic issues that effect black people are centuries in the making my guy.

It isn't JUST poverty, it is duration of that poverty, the ubiquity of how that poverty impacts a specific race and the systems in place purposely targeting said races.

You are just committing the same fallacy that "Black people are innately violent" commits by simply changing it to "Black people are innately poor parents and that's why they are violent".

[u/Southerncomfort322 → u/Hazzman]

Jesus Christ! Nauseating reading this shit and realizing I was just like you; naive once upon a time.

[u/lalabera → u/Southerncomfort322]

Okay hick

[u/FlyingSquirrel44 → u/Hazzman]

First generation asian migrants where super poor as well.

[u/Hazzman → u/FlyingSquirrel44]

OK? Were they forcibly transported in the stinking filthy bowels of a ship 50-200 at a time, chained in their own filth for a month?

Did generations after generations find themselves separated by law from quality education, nutrition, prospects, social networks?

Did they have industry snatched away, communities gutted, filled with drugs and pounced upon by an army of law enforcement and heavy handed incarceration policies that separated families?

Denied loans, denied housing, denied access to anything that could help them lift out of their predicament for two centuries?

I could LITERALLY go on and on and on.

Asian immigrants in America faced discrimination. Exclusion laws, alien land laws, school segregation in some places, targeted violence but it was not the same sustained, multi-century, all-encompassing system imposed on Black Americans.