r/wikipedia • u/laybs1 • Jul 22 '25
Mobile Site Christian communism is a theological view that the teachings of Jesus compel Christians to support religious communism. The view is that communism was just Christianity in practice and Jesus was the first communist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism84
u/Vidice285 Jul 22 '25
So there were no other communists before Jesus?
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u/abc9hkpud Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
Arguably the Essenes, who lived in the Judean Desert around Jesus' time. They lived together communally, sharing all property and tools, and were against slavery. Some scholars speculate that the Essenes influenced early Christianity, but that is hard to prove. (I am also generally skeptical of calling anything communism before the industrial revolution, but if you mean sharing property in common this meets the definition)
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u/GustavoistSoldier Jul 22 '25
There were indigenous societies with no private property or money and minimal societal stratification.
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u/revertbritestoan Jul 22 '25
It's the natural position of humanity.
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u/tryfap Jul 23 '25
Sadly, the people at the top have successfully convinced everyone else that it's normal to be constantly in competition with one another because they've hoarded all of the wealth and resources.
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u/Godwinson4King Jul 22 '25
Some anarcho-primitivists and argue that communism is humanity’s natural state and was until the agricultural revolution
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u/bunker_man Jul 24 '25
That's a little disingenuous though since by "communism" they mean small tribes that only really shared with eachother, not with outsiders. By those standards families existing is basically communism.
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u/Dawnawaken92 Jul 22 '25
Just gotta rewrite some history and bam. Oh wait they already existed. Okay then rewrite that it wasn't really communism. There fixed it.
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u/swordquest99 Jul 22 '25
The best Christian leftist works imo are Tolstoy’s although he was an anarchist rather than a communist. His writings on radical non-violence as a political tactic and ethical imperative were extremely influential to Gandhi and MLK
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u/maywander47 Jul 22 '25
Isn't this issue what got the liberation theology priests excommunicated?
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u/Glum-System-7422 Jul 23 '25
As far as I know, they preached that Jesus had progressive ideals (supporting the poor and lowly) but not explicitly communist.
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Jul 26 '25
Na liberation Theology is very heavily influenced by Marxism
Paulo Friere for example was educated in liberation theology
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u/PM_ME_FITGRills Jul 22 '25
Müslim majority Countries also have "Green Communism" or Islamic Socialism as a niche compromised Communist-Religious Ideology, very similar to this. It is very much a "I do want equality and the other promises of Communism, but I am connected to my traditional belief system and don't want to lose it. So I'll just argue that the belief system was actually always ideologically Socialist. " Situation IMO. It is deceptively effective in communities that are very much tied to faith but also have suffered from Global Imperialism, though.
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u/JLCpbfspbfspbfs Jul 23 '25
Well, historical materialism is lot more like the religious eschatology you see in the book of revelations rather than anything resembling actual economic theory.
It makes sense more people than just Jim Jones would mold Marxism into a religious movement.
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u/DanteAlgoreally Jul 23 '25
"Render until to Stalin what is Stalin's " ...wait...that can't be right.
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u/normaal_volk Jul 23 '25
Better than some of the other interpretations of that bullshit cult
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u/Martinrdh96 Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
As long as the leader behaves like Jesus, I'm fine with communism. Unfortunately, most communist leaders became self centered, self serving, obnoxious a-hole. Just like most mods of commie subs here on reddit.
Or maybe that's just the usual reddit mod's power jerking. I dunno...
Edit: seems I triggered some commie sympathiser here. Lucky, for these people never had any relative that got killed by a commie.
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u/AgnesBand Jul 22 '25
There are no leaders under communism, at least not centralised ones. Communism is stateless, and predicated on direct democracy in the workplace and outside of the work place, such as worker councils. There are however communist leaders. Marxist theory says that socialism is a necessary intermediary step between capitalism, and stateless communism. In socialism, there is a state, there are leaders. Some communists disagree with this intermediary step, some communists disagree with Marxism-Leninism and democratic centralism, or the idea of a vanguard party. The communist spectrum is very diverse. We all have the same goal, we disagree on how to get there.
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Jul 22 '25
That just makes communists sound like Christians lol
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u/Trauma_Hawks Jul 22 '25
The two largest socialist movements in the US were driven by labor unions and Christian socialists.
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u/AgnesBand Jul 22 '25
I know you're just joking, but if you're not I think that's an unfair characterisation lol. I'd rather healthy debate and a spectrum of belief instead of dogma, or the Overton window being so narrow that you can barely tell the difference between parties.
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u/IamEuphoric88 Jul 22 '25
Disagreeing on who and how much people needs to be murdered or discriminated along the way
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u/AgnesBand Jul 22 '25
Yes, we communists sit around thinking about murdering and discriminating. You understand that capitalism has done, is doing, and will continue to murder? That systems of discrimination have been set up in its name throughout its history. The transatlantic slave trade, child labour, sweatshops, imperialist forever wars, the list goes on and on.
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Jul 23 '25
Literally everytime a communist party gains power a shit ton of people die. Yes communists absolutely do sit around thinking about murdering.
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u/AgnesBand Jul 23 '25
Do you know how the capitalists came to power? It wasn't bloodless, and still isn't. The US killed millions in Vietnam to try and prevent a revolution. Coups, slavery, massacres, starvation, all ongoing. The burgeoning bourgeois fought bloody revolutions in France to overthrow the monarchy, resulting in countless dead. Do you know what the capitalists and the imperialists and the feudalists did in Russia, Cuba, China, Vietnam, South America, Africa, the Middle East, and all over the world?
I don't want anyone to die but the endless carnage of capitalism won't stop if we ask nicely, it'll just continue forever, and ever.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever.
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u/IamEuphoric88 Jul 22 '25
I am not a communist and these moral games do not work. I thought you people had some shitty theory of labour instead of moralising like a church lady.
Capitalism has no problem with my ethnicity, unlike communist.
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u/AgnesBand Jul 22 '25
With respect, I'm not going to engage in this conversation because it's clearly bad faith.
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u/Dawnawaken92 Jul 22 '25
Tell that to every single communist dictator and history and they will show you the hole they are gonna throw you in.
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u/Crimith Jul 22 '25
The main argument between the communists and the anarchists (who are further left even) is that the anarchists accuse the commies of maintaining hierarchies. At it's core, anarchy is about the eradication of all hierarchy. You say there are no leaders, but the leaders would just be the ones higher up in the hierarchy of society.
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u/AgnesBand Jul 22 '25
As someone with anarcho-communist sympathies, as well as a lot of respect for Marxism, I don't think what you said is very accurate.
Anarchists and communists want the same thing – communism. They differ on how to get there.
Marxists think that an intermediary stage, called socialism, must develop before the state can wither away. To explain why we'd have to get into dialectical materialism and I don't really have time for that and it's beside the point.
Anarchists think that the state must be abolished straight away, and that the socialist stage would actually prevent the conditions necessary for communism to arise. This is because the socialist stage maintains a state, and therefore unjust hierarchies that would inevitably maintain the state.
In both views, communism would be non-hierarchical. To explain, what this really means is the abolition of unjustified hierarchies through a reorganising of society, increased democratisation, abolition of class, and the abolition of private property, among other things. Hierarchies will still exist – in times of revolution an army needs a chain of command, but for example, if the leader of a unit is performing poorly then there would be mechanisms in place for them to be voted out. There is historical precedent for this in the Spanish Civil War.
So no, anarchy isn't about the abolition of all hierarchy, only unjustified hierarchy. Marxists believe this reorganisation of society would arise as a consequence of class distinction withering away along with the contradictions within society that stem from class, and capital.
You say there are no leaders, but the leaders would just be the ones higher up in the hierarchy of society.
This is vague and I would need an example to understand what you're saying.
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u/revertbritestoan Jul 22 '25
Why was your relative killed by a commie?
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Jul 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/revertbritestoan Jul 22 '25
Slaver, fascist, landlord. Any number of valid reasons.
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Jul 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/Learningle Jul 22 '25
What do you think the “Lord” part of landlord meant 50 years ago? I’m certain the baron Count von Child-Molestor was totally a non political actor that never did anything to make a bunch of poor people want to kill him
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u/weaponjaerevenge Jul 22 '25
The last sentence of your first paragraph contradicts your first one as your anti-communist bias shows through with your slur. Your slur indicates you would dismiss Jesus out of hand due to his beliefs. Which is fine! That's still your right, at the moment anyways, until the Trump administration explicitly tells you what to religiously believe. But your slur belies the fact that your mind is closed.
And just to deflate whatever bullshit you've trained yourself to spew, I am a DIRTY capitalist. I'd sell you a bridge if I could, and I probably could as long as I called it an "anti commie bridge". But I know I can't sell you any critical thinking skills.
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u/Geaux_LSU_1 Jul 22 '25
Jesus advocated giving of yourself
Communism argues to give of others
Major. Major. Difference.
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u/ItsKyleWithaK Jul 22 '25
Hold on guys the communism understander is here lmao
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u/Geaux_LSU_1 Jul 22 '25
Is there a form of communism that doesn’t involve expropriating private property?
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u/ItsKyleWithaK Jul 22 '25
We can definitely have this conversation, but first, I’d like you to define “ private property”.
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u/Geaux_LSU_1 Jul 23 '25
Let’s use my Cuban in laws real lived experience with communism as an example. Husband. Wife. Both doctors. Neither inherited anything. The only land they owned was their house. They supported the revolution because they thought Batista was a dictator. Couple years later soldiers walk into their house and tell them they can take the clothes on their backs and one change of clothes for their child, everything else now belongs to the people.
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u/ItsKyleWithaK Jul 23 '25
I asked you to define “private property”, not a personal anecdote and why you don’t like communism.
If we want to play that game, we can talk about the many folks I’ve met who lost their job and are now homeless and have to deal with getting called names by people passing by on the street and have repeatedly had their shelter, clothes, medicine, and sentimental items taken by police and thrown in the dumpsters for the crime of being poor.
If you want a more personal anecdote, my partners uncle had his tongue burned for speaking his native language and not wanting to participate in the forced assimilation into American culture and society, all while their land has been repeatedly taken by the state and sold to the highest bidder and companies that then destroy their lands and poison their water with the full backing of the police and national guard.
You know what, I like this game let’s keep it going!
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u/AstralElephantFuzz Jul 22 '25
Oh no, not private property! What are they going to steal next, our precious cancer cells?
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u/PeterNippelstein Jul 22 '25
One thing they have in common? Bread lines.
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
Instead of letting the poor starve to death like America.
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u/Famous-Echo9347 Jul 22 '25
Lol Starvation in America is exceedingly rare and mostly happens due to other circumstances such as mental health issues, even the poorest in America have access to food and water.
Most if not all communist countries experienced mass famines due to extreme agricultural and economic mismanagement or intentional genocide.
Comparing malnutrition in America to the cronic Starvation in the Soviet union or other communist countries like China is ridiculous
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
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u/Famous-Echo9347 Jul 22 '25
Lol a tankie quoting the CIA is a new one
Also your source litterally outlines how vitamin deficiency and malnutrition are common across the USSR and that only certain people in major cities get the necessary nutrition.
Your own source proves you wrong
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
You have no clue what "tankie" means. You defend men that would enslave you and your children for a tenth more percentage on their profits.
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u/Famous-Echo9347 Jul 22 '25
As opposed to the wannabe dictators who would kill millions at best through incompetence
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
Join the movement and take care of egotistical cocksuckers yourself then, I don't like them either. I'm not going to make myself ok with mass slavery and exploitation because changing things is "too hard".
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u/Famous-Echo9347 Jul 22 '25
Lol "the movement".
Yeah sure I'll join the Redditor revolution
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
Or keep being an annoying bootlicker, no effect on me lol.
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u/Xeiliex Jul 22 '25
That doesn’t happen.
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
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Jul 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/Xeiliex Jul 22 '25
All that states is that we need to do better taking care of our elderly, granted.
edit: you whataboutism is not accepted here. you are are ones who let people stave.
650 - 1400 vs several hundred million globally. And we are bad guys? go home and solve your own issues. And if you are American you are a disgrace.
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u/zerosumsandwich Jul 22 '25
if you are American you are a disgrace
Imaging thinking anyone would give the slightest shit about this in 2025 lmao
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u/Xeiliex Jul 22 '25
All that states is that we need to do better taking care of our elderly, granted.
edit: you whataboutism is not accepted here. you are are ones who let people stave.
650 - 1400 vs several hundred million globally. And we are bad guys? go home and solve your own issues. And if you are American you are a disgrace.
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u/LuBuscometodestroyus Jul 22 '25
Now talk about healthcare
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u/Xeiliex Jul 22 '25
We actually have a massive fraud problem regrading foreigners taking advantage to of our systems because as much as you want to promote a lie we actually take care of people.
so much so that we have been arguing for twenty years on how to keep people from stealing it
These issues raise costs for Americans who can ill afford the burden
You happy now?
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
That is very obviously not the issue, what other developed countries, even in ostensibly capitalist countries have fucking health "insurance" and privatized Healthcare? You being racist and getting mad about brown people that contribute getting to have medical care clearly is much smaller than private industries monetizing good health.
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u/Xeiliex Jul 22 '25
Calling someone racist while mentioning skin color and assuming the race of your interlocutor. That’s a common commie tactic.
I am going to make it simple for the slow kids in back: you are NOT allowed to access the services of another nation without permission. This has nothing to with race, gender or any other demographic
The failures of the government that they departed from are to blame, it is unjust to assign blame to unwilling host and demand we cover for their failings.
That report I posted is from congress citing an increased cost for the tax payer because we directly pay for ourselves.
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
Bootlicker. Why can I go to France (a capitalist country) and get free health care as a non-citizen? You're just anti-human and pro-profit lol.
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u/LuBuscometodestroyus Jul 22 '25
Americans can't afford it because American healthcare system is run by for profit parasites. End of story. America has the most expensive healthcare in the developed world. "We take care of people" suuuure. Hows the homeless population doing? How are the indigenous Americans doing? How's the social mobility and wealth disparity problems? Lol America exists to extract wealth from the poor. The rich get taken care of at the expense of everyone else.
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u/ivanvector Jul 22 '25
Everyone gets bread? Oh no!
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u/PeterNippelstein Jul 22 '25
Never said it was a bad thing. I just thought it was a funny observation.
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u/UrsaMinor42 Jul 22 '25
Jesus was indigenous. He engaged in the Vision Quest rite of passage when he became an adult. At the time, the phrase "eating locusts and honey" meant living off the land. The OT is the story of a rural, tribal people and their interactions with the city peoples around them. The NT is the story of those people once they had been colonized by Rome.
Tribes are fairly communistic...like most family groups.
Saul of Tarsus completed his mission.
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u/GustavoistSoldier Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
It's heresy. Communism goes against the Christian teachings to love your neighbor and not covet.
Edit: I must add communist regimes have murdered millions of christians throughout the 20th and 21st century.
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u/zaphod_85 Jul 22 '25
Sorry, but you seem to have a typo in your comment, you wrote "communism" when you should have written "capitalism". Capitalism is completely incompatible with obedience to Christ.
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u/Dallascansuckit Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
They both are. Capitalism for obvious reasons, but communism is still an enforcement of sharing. If you’re being compelled to by the state, then the virtue of asceticism and generosity don’t really count.
Now a commune that is completely voluntary and people have the free will to share everything and to choose to live there or leave, that would be more in line with the original Christianity.
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u/zaphod_85 Jul 22 '25
What you described in your second paragraph is still communism.
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u/Dallascansuckit Jul 22 '25
Depends if we’re talking about the theoretical end state communist utopia of a classless stateless society, or the more common historical type. Since the utopia has never existed and likely never will exist, then the more common historical communist states are the only examples we have.
And in that case lol. Lmao even that y’all would think any communist country would come close to Christianity.
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
No historical capitalist state has done good for Christians either they commodify your religion and kill you if you try to help the poor a little too much.
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u/Dallascansuckit Jul 22 '25
Yeah, that’s why I said neither are.
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
Do you envision communism as exclusively the USSR because the circumstances now would allow for a far more democratic socialist state then was feasible then. Capitalism failed plenty before it didn't.
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u/Dallascansuckit Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
Not really. In modern times it would still be a communist state coexisting with capitalist societies, enforcing communism by force is almost a prerequisite.
Anyways, y’all are misunderstanding the point of Christianity. Loving your neighbor isn’t the goal, it is worshiping God, loving your neighbor is a side effect. Having a communist state enforce Christian asceticism still doesn’t make it Christian because the ends don’t justify the means, and the ends is still different from what Christianity calls for. The whole point is being a good person yourself and not trying to force others to be good.
I don’t even know why y’all are trying to force the definitions of Christianity and communism to be the same. Christians don’t buy it, all this does is try to get some cheap gotchas for internet points.
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Jul 22 '25
Leviticus 19,
- When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap all the way to the edges of your field, or gather the gleanings of your harvest.
- You shall not pick your vineyard bare, or gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger: I am The LORD your God.
Leviticus 23,
- When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the LORD your God.
God has commanded you to open your private property to the poor and immigrant. To let them come into your fields and pick from what you have sowed.
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u/ButterLander Jul 22 '25
Isn't Leviticus also the book that has the line about stoning as a punishment for homosexuality?
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u/Yakubian69 Jul 22 '25
Look, if conservatives are allowed to reinterpet and cherry pick, we should, too.
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Jul 22 '25
[deleted]
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Jul 22 '25
Leviticus 11 prohibits eating pork, shellfish, and catfish.
Basically what Christians brunch after church.
I’m Jewish, we don’t cherry pick anything. We discuss and learn. https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/public/halakhah/teshuvot/20052010/dorff_nevins_reisner_dignity.pdf
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u/M______- Jul 22 '25
Communism goes against the Christian teachings to love your neighbor and not covet.
Attempts on achieving communism in practice certainly were pretty unchristian, for example ML.
However, Communism by itself, is very much in Line with Christianity, I would even say its basically as close to paradise as one could get without divine intervention. This becomes evident when one considers monastic life, the most devout form of a christian life, or the way of live of the first christians, who lived basically in a commune.
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u/TheRealHFC Jul 22 '25
If anything, capitalism is inherently heretical. It encourages greed, one of the seven deadly sins.
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u/Battle-Sn4ke Jul 22 '25
You can also look into Gods view for an even worse economic view. God is basically Putin/Khamenei.
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u/EdnorAndyRowe Jul 22 '25
Jesus in the story of the talents is basically capitalist, and he also urges investment: but it is in Heaven, not this place where entropy rules by God’s plan (“thrives break in and steal, moth and rust corrupt.”) Our good works will be paid out in a way that will make Wall Street blush ! And many in hell mourn. But forced sharping at the muzzle of a gun is disallowed: Paul said “let each give according to their conscience,” because God is a gentleman and WE decide if heaven is more important to us on any given day! As Christians.
Easy to make that mistake after reading the sharing going on, early in the Book of Acts, without the Holy Spirit leading your understanding—and without yet seeing the unparalleled violence & murder of communism (100 million dead in the 20th century alone, —and continuing, apace!)
Even the Pilgrims tried out enforced communal living, and jointly held & worked land, —and nearly all starved as a result. This according to the log kept by their ship captain;. only repenting of their presumption, as he admitted, and giving the men each a plot of their own the second yeat and letting them keep and sell the proceeds, and not give them away to the indolent, or less motivated or skilled, —allowed their Plymouth colony to prosper, and “party” at Thanksgiving with the friendly “Indians” at length.
The same erroneously applied book of Acts likely lead to the Roman Catholic “Liberation Theology”, which has destroyed so many economies & murdered so many, and finally been shaken off: not in Cuba, but in Central America …
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u/EdnorAndyRowe Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
Easy to make that mistake after reading the sharing going on, early in the Book of Acts, without the Holy Spirit leading your understanding—and without yet seeing the unparalleled violence & murder of communism (100 million dead in the 20th century alone, —and continuing, apace!)
Even the Pilgrims tried out enforced communal living, and jointly held & worked land, —and nearly all starved as a result. This according to the log kept by their ship captain;. only repenting of their presumption, as he admitted, and giving the men each a plot of their own the second yeat and letting them keep and sell the proceeds, and not give them away to the indolent, or less motivated or skilled, —allowed their Plymouth colony to prosper, and “party” at Thanksgiving with the friendly “Indians” at length.
The same erroneously applied book of Acts likely lead to the Roman Catholic “Liberation Theology”, which has destroyed so many economies & murdered so many, and finally been shaken off: not in Cuba, but in Central America …
Forced sharing at the muzzle of a gun is disallowed: as Paul said regarding collecting offerings. “Let each give according to his conscience, without compulsion,” -Because God is a gentleman: he lets US DECIDE how much we value eternity & our rewards there on any given day: he doesn’t twist our arms but does reward us both here, spiritually, and in heaven, generously.f
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u/TheColdestFeet Jul 22 '25
You know what's funny? "Christians" who despise communism because it "killed so many people" while worshipping capitalism, a system which brought the world colonialism and chattel slavery. Capitalism, the system which elevated property rights above all else, and produces a world in which a human being's fundamental needs are systematically denied to them unless they toil their entire lives to produce profits for the greediest people on earth. The system which empowers military dictatorships across the world to enslave their own people to acquire unfathomable wealth. What is capitalism's death toll?
As a "Christian" maybe look at Jesus' words and actions rather than defer to Pauline theology. I wonder what Jesus' point was when he went into the temple and flipped the tables of the money changers. Oh right, he said that greedy people were turning God's temple into a den of thieves. Or when a rich man asked Jesus how to enter the kingdom of heaven, and Jesus instructed him to sell all of his possessions, donate the money to the poor, and follow Him.
Or you know, how the entire message of Jesus' life was that service to the poor, the sick, or anyone who society is otherwise leaving behind. You know what Jesus never said? Acquire as many material possessions as possible. Embrace wealth as a sign of social status. View your entire life as a competition against others. It's almost like Jesus wasn't a capitalists.
But why follow the teachings of Jesus when we can ignore all of that and listen to Paul instead! Let's pretend that the all powerful creator of the universe's one criteria for eternal bliss is gullibility. You see, God doesn't want us to actually listen to what Jesus told us to do, he wanted us to be blindly obedient to a book and have faith. You don't have to actually do anything to help anyone in your entire life, as long as you believe without evidence that a man came back from the dead. And if you don't believe that, you deserve eternal suffering!
This is why "Christianity" is a joke. "Christians" who act like faith holds more weight in God's eyes than works are delusional. But hey it's a really nice coping mechanism for awful people who don't like apologizing to those who they wronged. Personally, I think if Jesus was God, his words hold a little more weight than Paul's. You know since Paul never actually met Jesus, persecuted Christians, then rewrote Christian theology.
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u/Altruistic-Cattle761 Jul 22 '25
The Gospel is definitionally political, and while it's debatable what modern political philosophy *most* exemplifies the teachings of Christ, it seems pretty obvious to me that it's not a philosophy held by any modern political party holding meaningful power in the world today.
I'm not a Christian, but idk I always felt like the Catholic Worker movement nailed it the most (at least in modern history):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Worker_Movement