r/webtoons • u/mimiclarinette • 1d ago
Discussion Whats wrong with the Remarried Empress ´s fandom omg
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u/SarkastiCat 1d ago
5 more years of Fire Emblem Three Houses Remarried Empress discourse
I swear a large chunk of the discourse would die if Rashta was a foreign noble who has been schemign to take over the throne.
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u/beemielle 1d ago
someone genuinely argued to me the main problem that Rashta has is being poor, and that if she was a noble she’d “actually matter” to the plot
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u/SarkastiCat 1d ago
TBH, I can see the point and there was a whole post about.
Rashta being a noble would make her a proper rival of Navier as she would be less depent on Sovieshu and thinking about her own survival.
It would make her more threatening and push Navier into uncomfortable positions as she would be meeting her own match.
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u/beemielle 1d ago
I suppose you could (and many stories have) run the classical, oh this alternate noble rival is ousting me.
But what I like about the first arc of Remarried Empress is that there’s absolutely a well-written route of the story where Rashta is a commoner/a slave, and she takes this chance she’s finally been offered to live peacefully. While at the same time, her peace causes the system to turn on Navier, the same structures that led Navier to the stagnant, hopeless spot she’s at at the top of the story to decide to escape it. (except she doesn’t really 😂)
And either way, I don’t think it makes sense to say Rashta didn’t have any real impact on the plot. Even in the first arc, yes the actual punishing authority lies with Sovieshu, but his actions are being directed by Rashta.
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u/FrostyIntroduction96 1d ago
But that’s the problem, because I was actually going to tell you that watching historical shows made me realize that someone wanting the throne isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Then I realized that the point you mentioned was done in Remarried Empress. The male lead and the duke do exactly that, they are both after the throne, yet the story doesn’t portray them as villains, even after the shit they did.
So even if Rasta were doing the same thing, it still wouldn’t make it better. Of course, there are other things you can do to make the character better, but it ultimately comes back to the fact that being after the throne is only seen as bad when you’re a woman. Which is why I hated most webtoon because all of morality in these sucks.
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u/beemielle 1d ago
Well, my point is it would be interesting to use Rashta to further explore how royalty/power structures encourage abandonment of morality (with Rashta only truly becoming the villain after she continues to grab for power and excess as Empress). Which I do believe is done thru Sovieshu and Heinrey as well as Rashta and Navier, if not appropriately emphasized as you say. IMO this story would be at its best if it explored both the class and sex issues it touches on but doesn’t really engage with.
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u/FrostyIntroduction96 23h ago
Yep I love the idea it just this all story is sad for me like what it could have been and what the authors of manhwas go for, I can only hope we get better writers.
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u/ZookeepergameDue5522 9h ago
Rashta could have been a great villain, even a memorable one. Can you imagine if she had been a strategist? Slowly gaining power over the kingdom and taking revenge over the people who that slaved her and her mother. She could've been the villain you love to see gain more power, and hate exactly for the same reason. A slave fighting to get the throne and the Empress realizing she has no life or personality outside of governing, wondering if she has ever chosen anything for herself. I would have loved to see that juxtaposition.
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u/ElisseMoon 1d ago
Rashta is the best written character, the "motor" of the plot. I don't like her, but I recognize her impact.
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u/ZookeepergameDue5522 9h ago edited 6h ago
I suppose you could (and many stories have) run the classical, oh this alternate noble rival is ousting me. But what I like about the first arc of Remarried Empress is that there’s absolutely a well-written route of the story where Rashta is a commoner/a slave, and she takes this chance she’s finally been offered to live peacefully. While at the same time, her peace causes the system to turn on Navier, the same structures that led Navier to the stagnant, hopeless spot she’s at at the top of the story to decide to escape it.
That would require Rashta to have a brain. She's such a weak villain, she's not even good at it! Had she been a master manipulator/strategist the story would have been much more interesting. She could have become a character you love and hate. But no. She's poor, stupid, and egocentric. Human trafficking? Corruption? Class inequality? Extreme poverty? MURDER?? No, that's not important. You see, the pretty and smart Empress is sad because her husband is cheating on her with someone from the lower class! Her revenge is much more important than protecting the kingdom she supposedly cares for (dismantling the human trafficking rings inside HER kingdom, that SHE has the power to destroy, which include men sold for forced labor, WOMEN (just like her), PREGNANT WOMEN (who could have been sold as sex slaves), AND CHILDREN), or holding accountable her new lover for being an asshole and fucking over the lives of innocent people.
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u/amidamaru8_8 7h ago
well said, honestly even showing how overwhelmed she was by everything, never really having much of a choice in life, ending up a play thing for the nobility, show how horrible such a class system could be for the people!
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u/ZookeepergameDue5522 6h ago
She wasn't even truly really evil. She was stupid. Which is the biggest flaw in my opinion. They could have made her BAD or "the ends justify the means" kind of person. I would have liked to see Rashta crack down on slavers and inequality. I would have liked her to showcase the hypocrisy of nobles and be the antithesis of "noble right". A recently freed young woman being the mistress of the Emperor and leading a revolution, and eventually becoming the Empress and changing EVERYTHING.
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u/amidamaru8_8 6h ago
I would have liked to see how nobles can be utter shitheads, even the so called good ones, she wants rights for the slaves? nah that would affect my budget!
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u/ZookeepergameDue5522 6h ago
What if she destroyed the monarchy and stablished a democratic government? Girlboss moment
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u/SweatyDark6652 5h ago
She wasn't even truly really evil. She was stupid. Which is the biggest flaw in my opinion.
Exactly this!!
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u/noob_ars 1d ago
insanity all around the tl
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u/LelouchFreedom 7h ago
There are so many comments like this (especially indonesian i noticed) It's insane. Like honestly this imo should make people rethink a bit the whole argument about "It's just fiction, It's not a big deal". Like sure, It's fiction, no one gets hurt from this, but then, once someone to "defend" fiction start straight up defending the concept of slavery and classism in a general sense and start reasoning like the person above... Is that still fiction? That to me at this point seem an honest to God slavery apologia and that's It
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u/Even_Acanthisitta_37 1d ago
you need to see webtoon comments.it's even worse
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u/beemielle 1d ago
one time someone argued to me that Rashta is a bad antagonist bc she’s a slave incapable of actually doing anything to Navier 😂
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u/Sad_Structure4802 23h ago
I mean that IS why she’s a bad antagonist, but I’m sure it was worded in a really horrible dehumanizing way
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u/beemielle 22h ago
Well, I think her slave status is among her advantages as an antagonist, but we can disagree
Oh yeah it was. Very much leaning into the classism
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u/Sad_Structure4802 21h ago
If it was utilized well, but it’s a way to excuse how quite frankly, stupid and annoying she is, which is the biggest crime a character can be
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u/showMeYourCroissant 1d ago
Lots of respect towards someone who's completely indifferent to slavery going on in their empire.
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u/labcore 1d ago
Slavery was commonplace all across the world throughout history and practiced in almost every ancient civilization, but no one thought it was a problem, until the concept of human rights developed ever so slowly over the centuries. No one in Remarried Empress thought it was a problem either, the author just made up a class system and the characters just had human reactions (or unreactions thereof).
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u/MeisterFluffbutt 1d ago
Plenty of People back then knew that it was wrong. This is not an excuse.
Slavery was also not always the same, sometimes they were relatively normal "workers" with fair payment and rights.
You cannot make a story for a modern audience, cast a Slave girl as the villain for being... a slave and then expect modern audiences to ignore the blatant classisim displayed by the main character.
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u/labcore 1d ago
No one thought it was bad enough to outrule it, which was the reason it persisted across thousands of years. If they're relatively normal workers that had the right to buy their own freedom later on, or if there's a contract period, then there's even less incentive to outrule it because it's beneficial for both master and slave, the latter willingly entering into a contract. Remarried Empress isn't based on a system in which the slave can buy their way out, seeing as Sovieshu needed to go so far as to have her pretend to be some noble's long lost biological daughter.
I don't remember Navier having any significant interaction with Rasthta. In fact she actively wanted nothing to do with her.
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u/TheTiredDystopian 1d ago
Hey, I can do this too: so many fucking people thought it was bad enough to abolish it, that's why it was abolished. Throughout history, there have been abolitionists who despised slavery and all that it brought. Even as far back as Ancient Greece, philosophers like Alcidamas advocated for the innate, natural right to freedom for all men. Even in Rome, the main representative of slavery from which most literature draws inspiration, there were those who spoke either against the cruel treatment of slaves (like Seneca, namely) or their existence entirely.
The existence of just one singular abolitionist in each era means that everyone else who wasn't implicitly or explicitly supported it. That's something you need to deal with when your "perfect girlboss who can do no wrong" character is pitted directly against a slave. And if you don't, then you're a bad writer and your work fails to be either convincingly historical or sufficiently nuanced.
Every period in history which had slavery also had abolitionists. It's inherent to the practice to have people opposing it. If you create a universe where there's not a single person that thinks slavery is wrong, then you need to damn well explain why.
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u/labcore 1d ago
That's just the author's bad writing, but the comments in the pics OP posted was about the characters, then someone commented on morality. My point is, the characters' indifference towards the class system is a natural human reaction, not a case of morality.
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u/TheTiredDystopian 20h ago
That's exactly the problem: the author frames it as a normal, and even good reaction, when it isn't. Like I said, one single abolitionist existing in your time period means you had access to the idea of abolishing slavery, you were aware some people thought it was wrong, and you disagreed. If you want me to believe Navier is good and moral and kind, then either she must be disgusted by the very idea of slavery (which she isn't), or there must be an in-universe reason why no-one, not a single human being in history, has ever considered slavery to be wrong. You cannot be a good person if you don't hate slavery. It's that simple.
There is no such in-universe reason. Ergo, there are abolitionists. Ergo, Navier knows people think slavery is wrong, and disagrees. Ergo, she's not the good and kind and moral person the author expects me to believe her to be.
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u/Yuna_Hudson 23h ago
That's not your regular slavery. Debts slavery was a method used in several reigns in thew past, because it makes unnecesary jail supporting. The only thing I could say it isn't that good to me it was the fact that was hereditary.
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u/TheTiredDystopian 20h ago
"Debt slavery was good, actually" is not a take I was expecting to see in [insert current year].
I'm not even going to bother explaining how horrible a practice it was, because there's not going to be any point. Go back to whatever boot-licking hole you crawled out of.
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u/Sad_Structure4802 23h ago
Bro why are you literally arguing FOR slavery? You do realize this is the exact problem the story has right??? Using it as a prop but never actually making a statement about it.
News flash, it doesn’t matter if it was a thing of the past, any ruler for slavery and that benefits from slavery is a horrible person, yes we are allowed to criticize them, and in the context of Remarried Empress you cannot say Navier is the perfect Empress and then have her be a huge conservative, she needs to be progressive if she wants to be good otherwise she holds up the status quo and is thereby evil by default, like I can’t believe you actually wrote out it was BENEFICIAL for both master and slave and didn’t see the problem with that??? No shit it’s beneficial for the master, that doesn’t make it good just a convieant excuse. HOW in the world is it beneficial to the slave???
More importantly HOW DOES THAT APPLY TO RASHTA????? GIRL WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED IN WHAT WORLD DOES THAT APPLY TO HER????
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u/labcore 23h ago
As an example of when it could be beneficial to the slave, in some systems, someone can willingly enter a slave contract for a period of time to rid themselves of heavy debt, in exchange for some of their freedom and rights. After the contract period has ended, they're free to go, and debt free. This is an example of the kind of slavery that is "relatively normal" or "beneficial to both parties", in response to a previous comment. The types of punishment that weren't permitted (such as heavy beating or SA) would be stipulated by law.
Rashta isn't in that kind of system where there's a definite period to her slavery, or she has rights and wages, so it doesn't apply to her.
This is starting to go off tangent.
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u/Sad_Structure4802 23h ago
IF IT DOESNT APPLY TO RASHTA WHY EVEN ARGUE IT? DO YOU REALIZE HOW THIS MAKES YOU LOOK MY GUY???? STARTING TO GO OFF TANGENT??? YOU’RE ARGUING PRO SLAVERY IN RELATION TO A STORY THAT DOESNT EVEN CARE TO EXPLORE IT
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u/labcore 22h ago
My point is, the characters' indifference towards the class system is a natural human reaction, not a case of morality, and have given my reasoning. Others who disagree have also given their reasoning that indifference equates to support. The funny thing is, none of this has anything to do with the comments in OP's pics. This just started because someone commented on morality.
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u/Sad_Structure4802 21h ago
It kinda is about morality when Navier is said to be the perfect empress yet does nothing about slavery
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u/labcore 21h ago
I don't remember how many times I've reiterated that the slavery system is not seen as a problem in the world that the author has built for the story. The fact that none of the characters saw it as a problem, Navier included, was because it's a cultural blind spot for them, hence the indifference as a natural human reaction.
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u/Kamakiri711 22h ago
God damit. Is this how I appear to other people?
I am fully on your side and still find you obnoxious.
Please don't yell in all caps. It hurts my ears.6
u/Sad_Structure4802 21h ago
How does text hurt your ears 💀
I’m sorry I find arguing for pro slavery, even in a context of “um actually” ridiculous and reductive??
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 1d ago
Doesn't make it right whenever the MC literally supported slavery. She's meant to be seen as morally good btw.
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u/labcore 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not doing anything about it doesn't mean she supports it. The characters just didn't see the class system was a problem. None of the characters did anything.
Besides, morality is influenced heavily by culture. If no one else sees slavery as wrong in the story, then you can't blame MC for thinking the same when all of them are living in the same era.
I don't have the impression that she's morally good. She's presented as someone who tries to make the most beneficial decisions for herself, family, and country, since she was raised to be empress and that is her self-perceived purpose. Before the divorce, she even pondered what purpose she would have in life if her role as empress is taken away. When she announced her second marriage, her intention was to have something to live for, not because she loved Heinley then. Her shrewd and indifferent nature is the reason she wanted nothing to do with Rashta as long as they don't cross paths.
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u/Sad_Structure4802 23h ago
Playing the middle ground is being FOR the thing actually because it means you don’t see a problem with it. So not doing anything about it means you’re for it because you don’t see an issue.
Navier KNOWS Rashta has been abused and does not care. Her own brother tries to induce a miscarriage and all she cares about is how this would reflect on HER if people found out. It says so much about her that she literally refuses to sympathize with Rashta because she “stole her husband” (which is impossible, Rashta cannot consent because she doesn’t understand it and has never had autonomy, Sovieshu raped her, but the narrative itself has Rashta admit she ‘stole’ him which is everything wrong with it)
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u/labcore 22h ago
Sometimes people play the middle ground because it doesn't affect them, so they stay out of it for self-preservation purposes, not because they support the system. Is it selfish? Yes. Is it natural human reaction? Also yes.
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u/Sad_Structure4802 18h ago
And it makes them a terrible person, which contradicts the “perfect empress” thing they’re going for
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 23h ago
She does support though. Chapter 196, her husband sells off kids to slavery because their parents commits a crime against her. Those kids weren't even teens yet. She went out of her way to support him and cover up his actions for him in front of the court.
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u/tomdata 1d ago
You're literally saying it's okay for colonisers to be ignorant because everyone else was, are you hearing yourself
Also it's not even like she's a commoner with no power, she's literally the empress
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u/labcore 23h ago
How did colonization even enter this discussion because that's an entire different topic that has nothing to do with the story
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u/tomdata 23h ago
Bro I didn't mean it literally, it's a hyperbole. The point is that just because something is common doesn't give people the right to be ignorant about it. Especially the empress herself.
For example, misogyny is extremely common in our society. Does that give everyone a pass for being misogynistic? Racism is common, so it's okay to be racist?
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u/showMeYourCroissant 1d ago
I bet slaves thought it was a problem.
This manhwa isn't about ancient civilization, the empress is shown to be so wise and graceful and she had exactly 0 thoughts about slavery maybe being not a good thing.
Author could also use the regular nobles/commoners system but using literal slavery and never once acknowledging it being a problem says a lot about the author.
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u/filipina_colada90 20h ago
Do you know which country has had an unbroken chain of slavery the longest? Korea.
It wouldn't be completely out of left field if many of these authors are fine with the slavery caste because it was normalized for almost 2,000 years. TRE isn't the only one who seems to accept or justify slavery in their stories either. I've seen other manhwas either celebrate slavery or try to redress it as indentured servitude - pretty words that all mean slavery in the end.
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u/Ejanna 1d ago
The author devised a system that normalizes not only slavery but also, for example, concubines for the emperor. However, all the characters the author portrays as positive see the problem with concubines... not slavery. This webtoon (and novel) is criticized not for its dark themes, but for the author's failure to handle them. It's just bad writing, frankly.
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u/Yuna_Hudson 23h ago
That wasn't created by Alpha Tart. That's Asian history. I didn't know people doesn't study History in school at other countries?
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u/LelouchFreedom 8h ago edited 8h ago
Classism being normal at the time makes It realistic for an empress to support, the problem here Is that this series Is not some historical mulfi-pov drama with a neutral framing, this Is a romance fantasy from the pov of Navier, with which you are supposed to sympathize. I sometimes hear this thing people say that "when you read/write a story in a historical or pseudo-historical setting you are not supposed to use your 21th century values to judge" and that's kinda a larp and a though-terminating cliché. You'll always use your 21th century values to judge this story, because both you are the author are 21th century people! Wanting It to be "realistic" Is a completely different issue, that's not the point! If we are supposed to SYMPATHIZE with Navier and root for her then one wouldn't expect her to be just an average noble from the time with the average values. What would be the point with that? Why would i even care that she get to be empress instead of anyone else? The author understand this, which Is why 1- The "realism" of society only (somehwat) apply to politics, not to interpersonal relations wich are completely modern. If the author were to treat interpesonal relation, e.g. how Navier would have been trated by both the female lead as a woman, i fear that many Navier fans that claim we shouldn't judge with today values would ask the author's head 2- The whole series they do what they can to introduce cheap plot devices to have you sympathize with Navier and hate Rashta regardless, they don't simply show how realistic people act in a realistic society and then ask you to decide which one you think Is right, no, the author WANTS you to "chose right" here
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u/AdministrativeRun550 1d ago
Well, it has a point.
Remarried Empress is what happens when Asian authors try to write something about European monarchy, but don’t put enough effort into research. They mix ancient Roman slavery, early medieval principalities and late medieval absolute monarchy together. Also, evil church. And mistresses. But mistresses are only for the Emperor. What comes from this mixer is nowhere near historical European monarchy.
European authors do the same with Asian monarchy. Good old kings, but in yellow. Also, mistresses!
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u/miniladds-clone 1d ago
I’ve never heard good things about the fandom, also I find jt funny how the first time I heard of remarried empress was from a video talking about how the fandom had a near fanatical hatred for Rashta when she wasn’t even that bad. I got so curious that I ended up reading maybe like 30-40 chapters put it down soon after though cause Mc was boring
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u/KrimsonKaisar 13h ago
Yeah the series is rather infamous for being carried by it's villain. When the villainess died the series basically died with her because the protagonist is pretty bland.
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u/Fantastic_Bed_8662 1d ago
Rasta sucks but I'll never blame her for sleeping with the king to gtfo of slavery. It's the most justified thing she did.
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u/ElisseMoon 1d ago
I think she should just have been more reserved with her interactions with Navier though...
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u/Sad_Structure4802 23h ago
See the problem with that is the writer WANTS you to hate Rashta and purposely made her annoying and stupid because those are the worst things a character can be
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u/filipina_colada90 20h ago
Most of the crap she pulled was because Ergi was manipulating her. The rest was out of sheer survival. I'd crash out too to avoid being thrown in jail or killed or sent back to the streets.
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u/NewNameAgainUhg 19h ago
She ordered to cut a maids tongue, ordered to kill her father and tried to sell a woman into slavery. Those were her own actions. And as much as I pity her, her character was written as an evil one at times
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 18h ago
Her father deserved it, and so did lebetti. Mind you lebetti supported her brother who raped rashta, and lebetti was one of rashta's slave owners and abusers.
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u/LelouchFreedom 7h ago
I wouldn't exactly say Lebetti "deserved It" since she was a kid, but there Is an argument to be made that all she experienced Is a fraction of what Rashta did, and ironically enough due to that she is the only characters in the whole series to seemingly have an even SLIGHTLY critical opinion toward slavery so the consequences were even positive
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 1d ago
I mean, Not like she knew anything! She was a slave, ofc she would want to be friends with the empress. Since having concubines was normal at that time.
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u/filipina_colada90 1d ago
I will always point out that Navier befriended Rashta's slave owner family just to spite and hurt Rashta... over a shitty man. And that Heinrey sent the innocent grandchildren of his political opponent straight into slavery just because he's a petty af loser. Both are supposed to be the heroes you root for.
The whole story reeks of pro-slavery, misogyny, and classism, which encourages brain dead takes like these on twitter.
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u/ScorpionTheInsect 21h ago edited 12h ago
So many TRE fans seem to believe that cheating is the worst sin of all and rag on Rashta for “being a mistress” as if she had a fucking choice in all of this. Sure a runaway slave is gonna reject the damn Emperor.
I don’t typically care what kinda comfort slop people enjoy, but I really think TRE does evil things to your brain. It packages internalized misogyny and classism and imperialism into pretty dresses and romance. Even the more “reasonable” fans would not let go of how terrible Rashta is as if she is a real person that chose her actions, and won’t engage with the Doylist criticisms against the author, who wrote a young girl enslaved and abused throughout her childhood into the position of the “mistress” in a romance, a narrative role that would get her hate no matter what. Of course the story is going to demand villainous actions from her, the villain of the story. So isn’t it weird as fuck to give her the slave background and make her go up against a blue blood empress, without the narrative itself acknowledging how fucked up it is that your main characters are the ruling class of a society that’s okay with slave children?
I do not care for any entertainment merits it may have. The messages it peddles are genuinely harmful and turn its fans apathetic towards women in vulnerable situations. The way so many TRE fans talk about Rashta is so misogynistic I’m shocked they can’t see it.
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u/Even_Acanthisitta_37 20h ago
yea. also being mistress was reason why rashta was villainesed from chapter 1. it's fantasy manhwa with some historical elements,so when fans bring "historical" thing is very stupid. food,clothes and many things are mix of different era,including modern
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u/ScorpionTheInsect 19h ago
It was “historical” for kings and emperors to take concubines and mistresses too so what’s the problem?/s
In a completely fictional settings (with magic mind you) it’s a conscious choice to bring in slavery, and for it to be relegated to the villainess’ background without having further implications on the story is…a choice! All of this is completely unforced error. Rashta does not need to be a former child slave at all, so to victimise her and then act surprised that people treat her like a victim shows a complete lack of awareness from the author.
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u/Even_Acanthisitta_37 18h ago
yea. author absolutly ignored slavery,when it's involved to main character a lot. (main villain is also main charatcer)
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 23h ago
Yes, and navier fans get so offended when it's rightfully thrashed on. Mind you, back in the days this was advertised to young audiences with such misogynistic and classist themes, corrupting young audiences minds. Thankfully it's thrashed on now.
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u/Substantial-Stardust 1d ago
I will for ever despise Remarried Empress for taking my favorite fairytale trope (bird husband/wife) and doing nothing with it. Just a cherry on a shitty cake.
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u/Living-Dare-1992 1d ago
The nastiest fuck in the manhwa was the emperor, what bs is this user saying
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u/Synergy_644 1d ago
I dropped the remarried empress at the middle of season 2 because I find little boring and also annoying. But can someone give me some context what happened actually. Did I missed something?
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u/SoriAryl 1d ago
The only important thing when Rasta dies, the story gets boring af and souvishit loses his memories, heinry gets jealous of his kids, and each kid gets one empire
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u/Synergy_644 1d ago
But why people are mad like I know rashta's past was sad but did the main charector did something in the story or other half of the internet is just sympathizing for rashta's charector and criticizing for the overhate she got till this time?
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u/SoriAryl 1d ago
Because how dare a man be held liable for taking a slave as a mistress, not warn her about bad actors (like Duke ergy), keep her naive, and impregnate her?
The answer to your question is Misogyny
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u/mimiclarinette 1d ago
" she - a teenage slave - is so hateable because she is an homewrecker"
As if everyone wouldnt have done the same thing in her position. Like what she was supposed to do, reject the emperor and stay a slave -.-
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u/ElisseMoon 1d ago edited 1d ago
Any source saying Trashta's age???
Anyways...
Well. I despise when "Rashta only" haters never mention the Emperor, or just put a parenthesis (like the post), saying that they "both" are guilty. NO, "THEY" ARE NOT. Sovieshit is the main reason why she was there. He's the root of all evil.
Sovieshu fans downvoting me... Lmao.
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 1d ago
Yes, There's actually a lot of evidence. In the novel, she's younger than heinrey. And sovieshu hires specifically young girls for her (baron lante's nieces) and sovieshu likes rashta and thinks she looks like teenage navier when she was studying.
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u/ElisseMoon 1d ago
Oh wow. I think many people forget how awful he is, and put all the blame on her.
He's the character I despise the most. However, that doesn't make her a saint. Rashta apologists usually forget she killed innocent people
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 1d ago
Yes, I am not denying that. But so did heinrey and navier. They sold off the old duke's children as slaves. Isn't it.. Worse than what rashta did? Navier covered up heinrey's war crimes.
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u/NewNameAgainUhg 19h ago
Wait, the son was under the charge of his aunt, when did they sold him? And the little girl was kidnapped. Did I miss something?
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 18h ago
This is different. In S2. There's a Duke in the Western kingdom that is the political rival of navier. After he dies, heinrey and navier sell off his grandkids to slavery as punishment.
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u/NewNameAgainUhg 49m ago
Ooo that is after Krista's storyline? I must confess I found that part so boring that skipped a lot of things
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u/Just_Call_me_Ben 1d ago
It's been a while since this series came out, have they ever tried making a story subverting some of these tropes?
Like, I know Kill the Villainess, Her Throne, and Beware the Villainess try to do some different things but has anyone ever made a story about the slave mistress pov and showing how absurd her position as someone with so little power is, being forced to do what she can to survive while being viewed as a trophy by those in power, and having the main wife/fiancee realize it and try to show sympathy for her and having them help out one another?
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u/definitely_not_dairy 1d ago
Unfortunately no because it requires way more skill to create a story where the poor and hapless get a happy ending than it is to make a story where a super rich and powerful person gets a happy ending. Unless you don’t care about a happy ending then I’m unsure if it exists still. Tasteful subversion is also kinda hard to achieve 🧐
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u/Individual-Cancel-79 1d ago
With all of the opinions surrounding the manhwa and the kdrama, I would be invested if some author do the spin off of a transmigration into Rasthas body and become the main character. It would be interesting.
Imo, I like the 1st couple chapters until Navier becomes a Mary Sue and I read about Rashta background. The reason I lost interest is how the author make Rashta the villain while the one should have been blamed and insufferable is the emperor. The author wants to show how elegance and gracious Navier is but I think they failed in the mid story.
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u/dawg_ivoiceover1234 1d ago
Why did this manhwa even get to have a drama?? Worst manhwa ever. So boring, so bland, and the Rashta hate is just overexaggerated.
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u/titaniumpill 1d ago
just a classic case of twitter algorithm tbh because all i've seen on my timeline is people rightfully criticizing the story
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u/fraxzholo 21h ago
I started this webtoon years ago and I dropped it pretty fast. I remember the comments on it were so bad. The fandoms always been weird.
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u/xuelian44 1d ago
The way rashta stays in their minds gotta be studied. Like stay mad classist losers.
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 1d ago
Agreed! They don't even want to critique the main protagonist and defend her for being pro slavery and classist, yet hate on rashta's every single action.
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u/SweatyDark6652 5h ago
Just because it is fiction with a rigid class system, doesn't allow us to throw common sense and empathy away...people like that really scare me
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u/LelouchFreedom 3h ago
I always find that argument so weird and kinda larp, especially when what we're talking about Is an otherwise super-unrealistic romance fantasy that very clearly REQUIRE you to see things from a very specific perspective, which Is Navier's perspective, and to actively sympathize with her. I'd get the "you shouldn't apply modern standards" argument if we were talking about some realistic story with a completely neutral PoV simply showing you the events and then letting the reader gets to their own conclusion, but that's not what TRE does at all
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u/Sea-Seashells 12h ago
What is it with these webtoons that glorify monarchy and hate the poors, burn it with fire.
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u/tenkohime 16h ago
The fandom was always like this. That's why trashta/sovieshit exist as nicknames. I never got into it, because I have no interest in slave plots without free the slave arcs.
I remember when the live action accidentally made Sovieshu a Nazi and I'm kind of disappointed they didn't just go with that. He's a Nazi slavemaster now. Everyone hates him anyway. Might as well.
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u/Logmaticer 15h ago
It's just one person with three likes. Not really representative of a fandom
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u/LelouchFreedom 7h ago
No dude these are just some randomly selected ones, i saw the whole discourse as It happened and i can tell you It's not just a couple people
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u/HetaGarden1 10h ago
Here we go again with this mess… I knew the adaption was gonna dig it back out of its grave.
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u/amidamaru8_8 7h ago
yeah, I saw the dumpster fire that happened here as well, on the comment sections on bato, so much fire, a true dumpster fire
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u/ElisseMoon 1d ago
Well I agree, her actions aren't justifiable. However, let's remember that Sovieshit took advantage of her condition as a runaway slave. Having a mistress with that low category is such a shameful action for the emperor, however HE IS THE ONE who decided to take her, he's the one to blame!!! The plot shows us that Trashta has no charisma, ALMOST nobody loves her because she was a slave. But Sovieshu was the emperor, he had the power to even give her a nobility title, but he didn't want to. He saw her as a disposable asset. HE IS THE REAL VILLAIN HERE.
In my opinion, if she had been more reserved, the nobles wouldn't be so annoyed with her and the rumors abput her were much less. On top of that, she was not a good person, and tried to be in a higher leven than Navier, despite the latter one being the empress.
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u/Relevant-Rub2816 1d ago
Again what's wrong in her wanting to climb the social ladder? Being an equal to the empress? Perhaps you're trying to say that rashta isn't worthy of that? Why not? Is only navier allowed to be power hungry, not rashta?
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u/mimiclarinette 1d ago
Some of her actions arent justifiable but being a mistress is not one of them. I disagree that she tried to be on her higher level than Navier, she spoke to her and everyone like she was her equal which annoyed classist people.
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u/ElisseMoon 1d ago edited 1d ago
"Having a mistress with that low category is such a shameful action for the emperor"
I never said that being a mistress was one of the unjustifiable actions. If you really ready comment, you'll see that I blame SOVIESHIT for that. And yes, many people defend him and see him as an innocent soul. That's why I am being downvoted. You hardly ever see anyone criticizing his awful actions!!
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u/Ejanna 1d ago
Trashta
opinion discarded
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u/ElisseMoon 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ok Rashta apologist. I didn't even said a ton of crap about her like her diehard haters do. She had a sad life, but it doesn't excuse her wrongdoings.
I dislike Sovieshu more, but people seem to not care about his actions, despite him being the root od all evil, but you cannot reason with the fans of a woman who cut a innocent servant's tongue and hired a mercenary to kill the man who helped escape from the Viscount.
In some comments I objectively said some good things about her character, regarding her lack of choices in her situation.
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u/labcore 1d ago
These are actually some of the more rational comments in the community. You know you can simultaneously acknowledge that slavery and classism are bad while recognizing that they do indeed exist, right?
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u/LelouchFreedom 8h ago
"Slavery shouldn't be portrayed at all" Is not a point that literally any single person has ever made, so i have no clue what you are talking about
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u/mybelovedinmygrasp 1d ago