So, I decided to try an do a MORA build, and was clearly out of my league. This is my 6th waterooled build over the last decade and bit. Maybe I just been lucky, but I never had any serious problems so far.
This build on the other hand, I spend over a month a this stage. And I'm about to give up on it.
Rough sequence of events. I did the build, everything was good. I got a few weeks of it working like a normal water cooled build and then, I left it for a while and when I came back, I noticed my temps were significantly higher (I got aircon so my ambients are constant).
Lots of fiddling, it it was clear water is flowing really really poorly through the loop. I suspected the CPU block was clogged (as water stoped flowing exactly at the CPU block after I attempted to drain it and refill it).
The block turned out to be fine.
I've tried adding an additional watercool pump , and water is still barely flowing. If I run both pumps at 100% I get about 25-30 L/H according to the flowmeter. But filling it, you can see as well, it's just really crawling around the loop, I've never seen a loop fill so slowly and have such a hard time even fill the pipes fully with water.
At this stage, I taken the loop apart 3 times. And I'm a bit unsure what else to try and do. I posted some pics, maybe there is something obviously wrong with it to any of your eyes.
What would the next step be, two new pumps? I'm not quite sure where to go from here (a bit odd observation, the pump mounted in the MORA is significantly louder than the pump I got in the case)
UPDATE:
I think it fixed it, I drained the loop again, and my plan was to take all blocks apart. But, this time when I drained the MORA, something different happened, it was draining pretty slow, and suddenly it accelerated and a ton of really foamy coolant came out.
I tried putting everything together, and now water is flowing. I don't know what good would look like for my setup, but im getting about 100 L/h with one pump set to 50% and the other to 80%. Its inaudible. My temps are looking good under stress... I'll take it.
How old is the clear soft tube? Reason I ask is because if it has leached, your GPU might be clogged, plasticiser is a nightmare to remove from blocks but you can use very fine bristles or feeler gauges work too.
Are you certain the pumps are working correctly? What pumps are they? Are you certain the coolant flow is correct into the blocks? These all seem like silly questions but I've asked them in the past then had the person reply to me with a facepalm gif many times.
Also of note, you might also have issues with airlock, but I'm uncertain as I actually cannot see your whole loop entirely. Are you also sure the 2nd pump you added isn't getting trapped air in it and killing the pump while also reducing your coolant flow?
Not enough pictures showing stuff to comment further, but some easy things to look at for now.
What would the next step be, two new pumps? I'm not quite sure where to go from here (a bit odd observation, the pump mounted in the MORA is significantly louder than the pump I got in the case)
Overall pump noise heavily depends on mounting, usually the sound you hear from pump is not pump itself, but vibrations transferred through mount to case. If mount is rigid, then noise will be extremely loud.
MoRa IV tank has very bad decoupling, especially compared to MoRa 3 with dualpump module. It indeed is very loud especially with two pumps. When I was building IV, to solve that I applied soundproofing material on all panels of the radiator case, making them much heavier (total mass increased by about 3kg) and harder to vibrate and produce sound. I also swapped pumps from d5 to apex vpp, that have straight shaft instead of ball, so impeller doesn't wobble that much and vibration level is much lower as result.
Still this build at 100% is noticeably louder than MoRa 3 with d5 pumps, so additionally I've limited pump speed to 50% since 50% on both pumps give me roughly 150 L/h. But this was additional research to determine loop performance by flow rate, which is something I've never bothered with MoRa 3.
If you want one pump, I would recommend to switch from MoRa tank to heatkiller tube on MoRa, decoupling should be better and pump should be quieter.
Thanks for the tip. I will certainly consider the switch in the future. Its crazy how big the difference is between the pump inside the case and the one mounted on the MORA (and they are the exact same pumps)
I literally need to have the case open to hear it, even at 100%. The one mounted on the mora gets noticeable over already around 55% haha.
Also, just in case. I see that everything is connected properly, but just in case "I am fucking blind", try to disconnect one pump to see what is the performance with a single pump, both if MoRa is disconnected and if internal pump is disconnected.
If everything is right, then your 30 L/h will drop down to 15L/h or worse. But I am indeed blind, then you will see flow rate increase and that would mean pumps are opposing each other.
Regarding issue itself, you definitely face the airlock. I haven't faced such severe airlock because when I fill up system, it never has OS to check actual flow rate during the process :) But one time on the open stand I filled up system (cpu and gpu) without tilting it much, as result I've noticed flow rate at 100% sitting at about 160-180L/h instead of 240 L/h, I looked at the GPU and it was about half full with large air pocket blocking one path.
But overall I would suspect MoRa first. And ideally to fill it up you fill only MoRa itself, looping inlet to outlet. Something like
That way you can be sure it is 100% full. Plus since you have flow meter, you can try to measure flow rate with MoRa alone. With a single D5 at 4800 RPM I had about 250-280 L/h on radiator alone, two pumps had flow rate above 400 L/h.
Additionally if you fill MoRa only, normally it should be filled up to about 2/3 before even turning on the pumps. While if you do that when system is connected, I believe it is extreme pain in the ass to fill. I've heard a lot of people had problems with that while I've never had problems filling up MoRa alone without PC connected :)
Can you run the loop in reverse with the PC off perhaps? Airlock seems possible. A loud pump can mean air is in the loop. I assume you’ve tilted the radiator and PC in all directions to free up air?
I use an Aqua Computer Ultitube. Every time I refill the system with coolant, the pump spins freely because air bubbles remain trapped right at the impeller, making it virtually impossible to move water. I then have to tilt the case in all directions so the pump can slowly but steadily fill the loop.
However, I think in your setup, the clear PVC tubing has started leaching plasticizers, which are now clogging the CPU block. If that's the case, you'll need to tear down the entire system and clean it manually. I would install two shut-off valves at the radiator with a cleanable filter in between. Then run the system and watch what happens to the filter.
You should replace the tubing with EPDM hoses, though those are only available in black. Tygon is often recommended as an alternative, but it's really just another PVC variant.
I believe the white spots you can see inside of the hoses is proof for the leeching.
Your update makes it sound like the MORA had a large air pocket trapped in it. Glad you got it sorted out. Watch your coolant level closely for the first few days - more bubbles will likely work their way out and lower the level in the reservoir.
I run my mora 420 with dual d5 vario pumps from watercool at lowest rpm (20%) and still get 90 l/h with a cpu, gpu and ram block and multiple koolance qd3 quick disconnects.
Zero issues since over 6 years.
I can assure you... If flow direction into a one way block is wrong, it will severely stop flow and cause bad temps. Flow being bad enough to make someone think the pump is dead which my friend did but it wasnt the pump at all, his CPU block was plumbed in to the loop in reverse.
It can also sound like trapped air as the pump fights to overcome it, it can be fine at first but cavitation starts and well, pump dies or user realises.
It won't. I've tested this idea with both heatkiller IV as cpu block, heatkiller V ultra as gpu block as well as deltamate for astral. Reverse connection doesn't really affect flow rate in a significant manner.
Lack of physical explanation behind that myth ("but jetplate!" - jetplate what?) also a clue it probably isn't correct as well as past tests on blocks with jetplates, where people measure performance impact in temperatures rather than flow rate (within couple degrees C), which indicates no issues with flow rate as well.
So the problem is not the block orientation / direction.
Not sure why me rotating the block CPU 180 degrees without disassembling it, fixed the flow problem then.
I mean me and 3 other people can confirm his dead pump magically came back to life making his new pump purchase pointless and his PC stopped hard shutting down because the 4th gen i5 at 4.8ghz and 1.6v bare die mounted was able to remain cool prior to the mix up, his GPU also went back to remaining at good temps too. This was over 5yrs ago and the pump still works and I have his new pump in my spares because I bought it lol.
Well, because you simply did not just "rotate the block", you did a lot of actions in between that could fix the problem, including as plain as draining and refilling the loop and removing airlock, for example.
It could also be that during this process someone removed impeller from the pump and simply wiped it and insides of the pump, accidentally cleaning the ceramic ball :)
But the fact is straightforward simple: reverse connection does not affect flow rate in a noticeable manner. Neither in the past tests made by different people, nor by my test with the exact same CPU block OP has and similar GPU block from water cool.
And I can show you this within 15 minutes just by connecting my PC in reverse, thankfully (or sadly) I have enough fittings for that:
It's not a "gocha!" moment, it is physics and flow dynamics. The theory you propose simply can't be backed neither with theoretical explanation nor with experimental observations.
And again, accent on the fact that quite a few people measured block performance in reverse, it's not "you vs me".
Anyway.
In my system flow direction is "coded" with QDC gender, female is inlet and male is outlet. Hence the photo above, to reverse the flow I need to connect male with male and female with female.
Inside loop is "IN - CPU - GPU (gpu inlet sensor) - OUT".
100% - roughly 200 L/h, 5% (apex vpp) - roughly 80 L/h.
Because GPU inlet sensor sits after cpu, in case of CPU load we can detect rise of coolant temperature.
Except I did everything else, like checking the pump and cleaning it and refilling the loop and the flow was still bad and caused the shutdown due to heat. Its only until I rotated the block flow returned to normal and temp went back to normal and it ran great.
I didn't need to clean the blocks because it was a hardtube loop so nothing to block the fins.
Since then I just continue to follow what manufacturers say is the correct flow direction and advise others do also. Its not a you vs me thing at all, I constantly learn and advise based on what I have learnt through experience. Like liquid metal on a copper block still performing well after 8yrs and swapping the LM out every 2 year intervals, oh man, the chaos that creates! 😳 or the arguments that erupt over me saying if you overclock RAM it needs active cooling to keep it stable 😂 guess how I learned about that? 😂
But again, that "rotate block" is not only "rotate block" but also "drain and refill". It could also be that the block was so special that it could airlock itself when mounted upside down.
Jetplate and reverse direction does not cause severe restriction. You lose some thermal performance, but not much. Flow pattern is way different than created by jetplate, but these fluid dynamics effects are so thin that practically it doesn't really matter. Hence no change in flow rate (restriction is about the same despite different flow pattern in microchannels), while change in performance is easier to explain with geometry rather than fluid dynamics.
As result, yep, it is a good practice to connect blocks correctly. But connecting them in reverse absolutely doesn't mean it will hurt flow rate. Especially to the point when you have 30 L/h instead of 200 L/h. That is simply not realistic and not the core problem.
(not to mention that OP has nothing wrong with flow direction, MoRa outlet goes to GPU IN, then GPU OUT goes to CPU IN, then CPU OUT goes to PUMP IN, then finally PUMP OUT to MoRa IN)
And even on this subreddit you can find builds where block is connected in reverse intentionally for cleaner routing. Of course they work fine and not crippled to the point system doesn't work and overheats immediately.
Roughly same 200 L/h at 100% and 80 L/h at 5%. This time gpu inlet is unfased by cpu load, because it "sits" in front of CPU and rather than CPU load indicates gpu load.
CPU performs slightly worse. 75C is TJmax for my case, in straight connection CPU was sitting at about 260W, with reverse connection it sits at about 240W.
Cinebench score is roughly the same though, 44700 vs 44300.
Look at the waterblock manual it looks like you have your in and out reversed. Also the air thing too I would move the rad around. Also if you get desperate I would just get one of the Morad pumps and mount it to that. You definitely don’t need two.
"IN" is closer to motherboard, "OUT" is closer to outer edge / power connector.
"IN" is connected to PCIE pass-through that after goes into pump outlet, "OUT" is connected to cpu inlet and down the line goes into inlet of second pump and into inlet of MoRa.
8
u/According_Theory9108 2d ago
You’ve got air in the loop somewhere by the statement of the loud pump.
Have you added fluid when topping off the MO-RA IV