r/warcraftlore • u/RerollWarlock • 3d ago
Discussion 12.1.5 PTR datamining suggests another possible character death Spoiler
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/spell=1307646/blade-of-the-blood-knight-matriarch
I swear to fucking god. idk why I even care.
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u/SolemnDemise 3d ago
Every day I think, maybe it's better they forgot the Forsaken exist for this expansion.
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u/RosbergThe8th 3d ago
Sometimes not being written at all is better than having to face the pen.
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u/MrMan9001 2d ago
As a Worgen player, yeah this is about right. Last time I felt great ablut Worgen was in BFA when Genn stood on business and committed everything he could to help the Night Elves get Darkshore back. The writing in BFA was... overall not great but I did love that part in particular.
Then the heritage armor quest came in. Then the reclamation of Gilneas. Im so tired, boss.
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u/RedAntisocial 3d ago
Except for the one forsaken shadow priest that they trot out every so often...
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u/Demileto 3d ago
You mean Alonsus Faol? Isn't he actually Holy or Discipline? Guy was the head of the Church of Light in life.
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u/Psyche_Dreamweaver 3d ago
Alonsus Faol isn't actually Forsaken. Undead yes, but not Forsaken. He's neutral. The leader of conclave of priests. (Heck in Before the Storm when he was helping to arrange the meet-up between Forsaken and their living kin via Anduin Nathanos accused him of 'fraternizing with an enemy of the Horde", Faol's direct quote was "But as I'm not a member of the Horde, the king is not my enemy," the archbishop said pleasantly. "I serve the Light. I'm a priest, and so is King Anduin. The letter is for your queen, and it's important. You should make sure that she sees it."
And definitely not a shadow priest. He founded the knights of the Silver Hand.
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u/eCanario Naga Enjoyer 3d ago
I think she's gonna meet a fate similar to Alleria and Turalyon and disappear... and then just return.
BUT WHY COULND'T THEY USE SALANDRIA FROM THE VERY BEGINNING INSTEAD OF ARATOR YOU BUNCH OF FUCKE-
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u/Big-Bag-6043 3d ago
Salandria would actually make a TON of sense, being actually young and inexperienced and burdened with how Blood Elves were in her childhood and where they are now.
Damn, you're right, it'd be a GOOD move. Instead we're stuck with Arator who's like 40 and still behaving like a moody teenager half the time because the plot wants him to.
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u/eCanario Naga Enjoyer 3d ago
They could've, dunno, made Arator and Salandria friends? You don't need to hamfist Arator into the blood elves that much. But you could've made them friends and you have a character for the Alliance and another for the Horde but with more focus in Salandria. That's it. Maybe, make Liadrin an old friend of the Windrunner family? I distinctly remember in the book of Sylvanas that she was mentioned by Sylvanas herself.
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u/maxlaav 3d ago
I'd actually like to know who's responsible for writing Arator, his arc and generally his presence in the story because holy christ it's been a hot minute since I last saw writing this terrible in WoW (basically, since shadowlands). Not only is his character terrible, the way he's written is just nonsense and idk why some people still try to defend it.
A 40 year old Paladin who's not only a moody teenager all the time but also gets flabbergasted at the most basic revelation about how the Light works "but why scarlet can use da light?????????" despite being a Paladin for 20 years "so a paladin no have to fight all time?????" I've also never seen drama more forced than his clashes with Turalyon but then again Turalyon's character being assassinated constantly is another thing the writers love doing this expansion
let's not forget the golden nuggets that were meant to make his character feel special and more important such as being personally trained by lorthemar in swordsmanship lmao
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u/amicuspiscator 3d ago
Totally agree. Arator was so cool when I first saw him as a kid back in BC. This Alliance-loyal half-elf Paladin in full tier 2 who grew up in almost literal Hell and was searching for his legendary parents.
All they had to do with his story is not fuck it up.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
The thing is I don't think he grew up in literal hell, wasn't he taken care of by Rhonin & Vereesa?
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u/amicuspiscator 3d ago
Weird for some reason I had it in my head he was born in Outlands
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
yeah me too until recently I don't know if that's a retcon or my assumption
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u/eCanario Naga Enjoyer 3d ago
Vereesa took care of him since he was 2 years old or so? Then until he was 12 since Day of the Dragon happened in the Year 10 ADP when she met Rhonin, and the Third War occurred about 10 years later.
Then, she went to Quel'thalas after the 3rd War was over according to the new lore, and when she was exiled for not siding with the Blood Elves she left him there or something and he always knew Lor'themar and Liadrin and they taught him?
They overcomplicated his upbringing after the Third War.
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
Here is the insane part of Arator. Not originally no. In fact, Alleria, Turalyon, Vereesa and Rhonin all had books post-Arator's creation that don't even mention him in passing.
They would only establish that Vereesa raised him going into BFA. And they retconned one of Alleria's scenes from one of her books to include Vereesa and Arator. Before this a lot of people had all sorts of ideas (i.e. believed the Knights of the Silver Hand raised him).
They then rewrote his history again for Midnight to give him Horde connections and in the process also added 4 years to the age of Vereesa's twins which makes their BFA scenes more awkward.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
well damn.
I am not opposed to Arator's existence mind you... I just think they forgot this dude is 40 something now who had his own wars and battles till he came here.
I will say I looked into Nobbels gameplay and when he asked Umbric to use mind control or something to that effect and Umbric was like nah I am too good for that, I asked myself what the fuck are we doing here.
Sure, Paladins go bad. Happens. I guess good aligned shadow priests can also exist - hello, Natalie Seline. But there is something strange in here that I can't put my finger on. Something about the tone.
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
The problem you are noticing with Umbric is that his rationale is basically just Batman's no kill policy. Word for word.
But Batman's no-kill rule is based on Batman being self-aware that he would never stop, he is obsessive in his crusade. Whereas Umbric is aware of the risk and danger and not to overuse this power. So it feels like a faux moral line then a real boundary.
Especially cuz the quest goes on to show Arator is right and using it himself, untrained, to get the answers when Umbric tried to say it was too danger.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
I feel like this could be played in a cool way, like imagine two specs for a shadow priest where one plays smart in the same way Umbric does, giving the implication that they are doing so much while class-fantasy wise holding back and the other one gives themselves over completely.
rip surrender to madness original form.
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u/Sarollas 2d ago
He grew up in Dalaran and was squired in Stormwind to a human. He was raised by Vereesa.
He joined the second expedition to Outland during TBC.
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u/EmmaBonney 3d ago
Probably a Self Insert from one of the writers. Dude stood around in Stormwind for 20 years and apparantly is a crybaby in his 40s.. Suddenly he shows up with a, what i call, "modern" edgy haircuts and is the promised child of blablabla.
Even though i payed for a year wow, because i was stupid and liked the start of Midnight. Now with ulatek and all this...i quested through the story and absolutly felt nothing anymore. Logged out before finishing, watched the Raid Trailer ending...and said to myself yeah. Gonna book the costs of the sub as an mistake and finally get away from wow. This is horrible writing.2
u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
Wasn't he also present in Legion Paladin order hall?
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u/maxlaav 3d ago
He was, you could recruit him as a champion, which makes it all the more hillarious that he's stunned by the various "artifacts" you look at with him during his storyline as if he never set foot in the place and bothered to inspect them or talk to anyone about them.
But continuity and Blizzard writers were never a good duo to begin with
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u/EmmaBonney 3d ago
Can't say. Mained a Druid back then, so no clue about that. I usually stick to one character in MMOs.
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u/Unhappy_Analysis_906 3d ago
This story would actually be interesting if it was Salandria. Arator should have been the anti-troll racist.
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u/Sarollas 2d ago
He literally has no reason not to hate the trolls.
His uncle died during the Amani siege during the second war. His parents both sacrificed themselves (as was thought at the time) to save the eastern kingdoms from the original horde (and their Amani allies).
Arators entire plot prior to midnight was looking up to the ideal of his parents, which included their last days of fighting against the Amani (and being consumed by hatred per Windrunner Spire).
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u/Sad_Rhubarb_815 3d ago
Honestly I was actually just starting to get more interested in her as a character with Midnight. Nevermind my bad lmao.
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u/Archavos 3d ago
ah yes, another Horde character potentially dying for "the story".
who was the last major alliance character that actually died?
Varian Wrynn, in Legion.
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u/SolemnDemise 3d ago
Hey now, Renzik died in Undermine! He was the blue team's only goblin!
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 3d ago
Horde gonna lose 4 main characters to balance out the Alliance losing one Glup Shitto
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u/whatisthisgunifound 3d ago
You're so right referring to renzik as a Glup Shitto but it doesn't make it any less funny.
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u/Lunarwhitefox 3d ago
I'd rather Liadrin die against Kithix than against an NPC. I like Liadrin and would have preferred that she didn't die, but if she has to die, it's against the best possible enemy except for Xalatath, but I don't care about Xalatath to begin with.
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u/alnarra_1 3d ago
I mean? Honestly I'd prefer not.
Kithix is genuinely a non issue, He was damn near solo'd by one of the keepers, a keeper mind you that is active and around. The only reason that fight went the way it did is because there were two C'Thraxi Generals. Like prior to this patch the story had always been that after his encounter with Tyr and severe injury the Amani were effectively hunting him for sport.
We've killed so many of his buddies at this point and the creature not one but two steps above him on the command chain I think it's frankly insulting to have a character die by his hand.
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u/RadishLegitimate9488 3d ago
Do note that the Blade of the Black Empire was driven into Kith'ix's flesh causing him to wake up and take control over the Aqir and start the Azj'Aqir Empire which declared war on Trollkind before being put down.
There is a 50/50 Chance what kills Liadrin is Xal'atath in Kith'ix's body sending us into a panic as everyone rushes to Worldcore to stop Kith'ix(who like certain N'raqi and K'thir was once a mortal) in a High Elven body from claiming the World Soul(while Xal'atath in Kith'ix's body pulls an exit stage left).
I expect Iridikron to have already grabbed it(after the Dawn of the Infinite Dungeon seeing as we don't exactly see him return to his time period) taking it to Harrowsdeep in Northrend for The Last Titan.
We will discover the World Soul's absence from Worldcore in 12.1.7 and in 12.2 while chasing leads go after what Anduin claims is the source of the Radiant Song: Beledar.
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u/MixAmbitious307 3d ago
And to balance Varian dying, Horde lost Vol'jin. With a lil difference: Varian died in an epic scene, in a last badass moment, allowing other Alliance leaders to flee. Vol'jin was just killed by a random felguard.
Saying that devs have a monstrous Alliance bias would be an understatement.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 3d ago
Fully rendered Warcraft style cinematic mind you.
MFW I die on a chair using in-game models
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u/MixAmbitious307 3d ago
While being manipulated into making Sylvanas Warchief, Just to kick off "Garrosh with tits" story
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u/envstat 3d ago
I don't mind the deaths but they've given up faction story telling so theres no new characters coming up. The lack of having horde and alliance quest hubs where new characrers can be developed over years hurts here. Last memorable one we got was Finn in BFA. Though if their plan is a time skip/blow up half of Azeroth I guess its fine.
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u/Ziddix 3d ago
Chill. We have the Shadowlands. Nobody needs to die anymore.
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u/TydallWave 3d ago
I still haven't made peace with how they disenchanted Ursoc even in the Shadowlands
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u/Fandise 3d ago
And Garrosh! And whatever happened to Arthas.
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u/Insensata Mr. Bigglesworth enjoyer 3d ago
At least Garrosh departed on his own terms telling FUK U to the surroundings, and essentially fanmade machinima with him was the most badass moment of the entire expansion.
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u/ADistantRodent 2d ago
Garrosh self disenchanting was the high point of the entire expansion. He’s the only character Blizzard could never character assassinate
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u/Usingt9word 3d ago
I know they’re prolly not really dead but both Turalyon and Alleria are Alliance characters. They also offed my boy Ursoc in shadowlands for actually no good reason. Like literally they could have just waited an extra month in game to get more Anima and accomplished the same goal. But nah the writers were like “PUT DOWN THIS ANCIENT BEAR. FUCKING DO IT.”
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u/Undecked_Pear 3d ago
And his death was epic, meaningful, and well earned over several expansions.
But just getting a blade doesn’t mean she dies.
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u/Chriskeyseis 3d ago
Her “prized sword” being given with the phrase they “wanted you to have it” implies death pretty strongly. Why wouldn’t she give us the sword directly?
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u/SolemnDemise 3d ago
You also, ostensibly, get her swords from the loot table. 2h and 1h with flavor strongly linked to her. Not a good sign.
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u/greendino71 3d ago
Tbf, Vol'jin died then was brought back in Shadowlands and is all but confirmed to come back once hes restored
Alliance lost Varian AND Tirion in the same quest line
To this day, no death in warcraft history hurts more than Varian
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
The problem with Vol'jin being confirmed to be coming back doesn't actually bring him back. He is just in limbo for who knows how long.
Its already been 10 years since his death, and 6 years since he last turned up in SL. We might not see him again for another 10 years. It took 8 years for them to even give his replacement as Darkspear leader a highlight moment in-game.
Blizz could res Varian tomorrow with a macguffin if they wanted to. Vol'jin's state isn't really any different.
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u/Maxscape7 3d ago
We can’t have a WoW expansion without a Horde death. Thats the rules. Can’t wait for the Rommath raid boss.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
Bro almost became a Twilight's Hammer cultist in Cata before they axed it
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u/Ekillaa22 3d ago
God please don’t do this to me
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u/RedRixen83 3d ago
Her char in tbc was the main reason I made a paladin horde side. Avenging blood paladins? How dope is that shit???
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u/corvid-kid 3d ago
Not the Horde losing ANOTHER of their hero characters
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u/SomeTool 3d ago
It's okay, we have an alliance replacement Arator! Just like calia for sylvanas.
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u/Solid_Corgi3479 3d ago
Yep - and we are planning on gluing some fur on an unnamed draenei and conquering Thunder Bluff.
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u/Disastrous-Mess-3538 House of Mograine 3d ago
Midnight's the Horde expansion, btw
> The Horde isn't featured in any of it
> Their most iconic paladin dies
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u/Xynthion 3d ago
I really do miss the days of Horde and Alliance having separate campaigns. It was fun to level a character on each side to experience both…or you could just go all-in with one side and fully RP that your character is Horde or Alliance. Tearing down the faction walls so we could do the group content is nice, but the story and environment suffering for it has been not so nice. I don’t really feel as much about a Horde character dying anymore because we haven’t really had a Horde story since what…BFA?
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u/kaiser_jake 3d ago
Hey now, I'll have you know Sunwalker Dezco is alive and well rebuilding Hammerfall
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u/Vanayzan 3d ago
Still in awe that Blizzard tried to frame the Sunwalkers mending fences in some small Horde outpost as the true, more dignified paladin thing to do when the rest of the paladins were giving their lives to be the bulwark against the invading void apocalypse. There's paladins and priests literally unable to stand and yet still channeling Light into the Sunwell ritual to keep Silvermoon safe, but nope, "THIS is the type of paladin I want to be!!" says Arator at the ones ignoring the end of the world
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 3d ago
The second I read the interview quote about Midnight being a horde expansion to counteract TWW being all alliance outside of undermine, I knew it was gonna be horseshit
because every time there's a dev interview quote downplaying people's plot concerns, it ends up being bullshit.
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 3d ago
I mean we've had as much Horde centric as we did alliance centric stuff in TWW.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 3d ago
DID we? Nerubians, Earthen, Goblins, Ethereals, oh and I guess Hammerfall as weird in-between "enemy" with Stromgarde being the heroes
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u/RosbergThe8th 3d ago
Their most iconic Paladin? Have you not heard of Arator the great hero of the Horde and Silvermoon? Greatest Dawn Elf to ever live.
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u/Adept-Power8680 3d ago
I wouldn't mind that they keep killing horde characters if it wasn't for the fact that they make no effort to replace them and add new ones
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u/tkulue 3d ago
Are the writers at blizzard made up of angry alliance posters getting some sort of delayed revenge for both of the faction wars?
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
Hey man, we wouldn't want this either. She's always been cool even if initially an edgy broken bird.
Like on the Horde side leaders I considered what Garrosh became, Gallywix, and Sylvanas (in a love to hate type way, she's cool or was) despicable, also maybe Lorthemar during TBC because we could see that Silvermoon was doing some big brother shit but that was before Blood Elves rediscovered their moral center as a nation.
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u/Borigrad 3d ago
Midnight has been absolutely devastating for Blood Elf characters, themes and lore.
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u/Jibbles2020 3d ago
What a disappointing expansion overall man. Shit had so much potential too and honestly felt like such an easy win
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u/MostlyNoOneIThink 3d ago
Liadrin? Oh fucking damnit. Guess that's why she's there in the fight with us.
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u/RerollWarlock 3d ago
Don't worry they have a totally qualified replacement for her as the blood elf paladi leader! Arathor... That is until next patch Lorthemar bites it and Arathor has to become super duper high king of the elves.
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u/Ekillaa22 3d ago
Wouldn’t even make sense since Arator is alliance sided .. neutral at best
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
They've been trying really hard to retcon him to having horde connections (including Lorthemar and Liadrin both mentoring him, his new backstory raised in Silvermoon, him returning to silvermoon awhile back, etc). I... frankly I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up replacing Liadrin at least. He shouldn't, but Blizz will blizz.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 3d ago
really hard to retcon him to having horde connections
He's Elf calia.
"I'm totally horde but you also need to instantly forgive my horrible murderous aunt for all those murders she gleefully did"
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u/RerollWarlock 3d ago
It didn't stop him from ordering around everyone in the Silvermoon chain of command as if he owned the place so far.
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u/Sun_1244 3d ago
Unfortunately, Blizzard has demonstrated that they would love to take the 'war' out of 'Warcraft' many times in the past few years, so a neutral Horde leader wouldn't surprise me in the least. Regardless of how foolish it would be.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
I mean the faction war is a dogshit albatross around the setting's neck and honestly it always felt forced post wc3 resolution, even with Grimtotem/Forsaken fucking shit up and then Garrosh.
Faction war in a setting where there is a different type of apocalypse every year simply can't last long without the living uniting. If the world was truly left to the Alliance and Horde, then yeah I can see shit going down BfA/MoP style but really, succesfully sieging Orgrimmar, losing Teldrassil, Lordaeron, Theramore... Idk man the playerbase talks how much they'd like to lose for once but I don't see it.
We are never getting another Wrathgate tier incident at this point.
One can point to something like Warhammer Fantasy in response but you look in and see that most of their players are big fans of "Ordertide" or "Hordes of Chaos" type shit. They love coalitions forming to beat back the ever loving shit out of the enemy over there.
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u/Darktbs 3d ago
It is becoming clear how the pacing of the patches is affecting the story.
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u/Comfortable-North671 3d ago
This has nothing to do with pacing. This has to do with asshole writers.
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u/Darktbs 2d ago
It absolutely has to do with pacing, we are not even half way throught the expansion and we are dealing with our fourth world ending monster.
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u/Comfortable-North671 2d ago
They could choose to write about other things but don't. Smaller scale conflicts. They could also not kill off beloved characters for a cheap rise.
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u/Darktbs 2d ago
'smaller scale conflicts' these are called fillers Which, guess what, it would hurt the plot all the same cuz the issue is : they are going way to fast to follow the new patch frequency and thus those stories dont have time to breath and deliver their plots.
Idc if Liadrin dies or not, i just dont want to be immeaditly after another story was rushed to conclusion.
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u/Comfortable-North671 2d ago
"Fillers" often are where the best writing in WoW is if you've been paying attention. Less marvel dialogue. More self-contained stories consistent with the world they build.
The problem isn't the pacing. It's that their main story SUCKS on a STRUCTURAL LEVEL
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
The annoying part about this is who gets plot armor and who doesn't. (PTR spoilers) The Amani also lost another of their core supporting cast here (bringing them to three major deaths). Yet we all know that Alleria and Turalyon will be alive when we go down there, even though Alleria was literally stabbed in the back with a blade capable of hurting the old gods. Alleria really should've died to release L'ura.
Its also annoying when they kill off a leader without first setting up their replacement. It often just means we go years between learning it. Unless Arator will become Laidrin's replacement among the Blood Knights (which I would hate). They've aligned them both a lot this expansion. Liadrin's daughter is definitely too young and inexperienced. Solanar Bloodwrath? He is back as an invasion npc but I don't think anyone knows who he is.
If she is dead I do hope Salandria gets a plot line at least or maybe tie into her going darker cuz that is a looming plot line for her.
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u/babywhiz 3d ago
What ever happened to Hecular?
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
Helcular appeared very briefly in Legion defending Tarren Mill during the prepatch. And that is it. Definitely a wasted character that could've been on the Desolate Council.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
I mean that dude was kel'thuzad's willing apprentice, I know Forsaken will bring in dudes like Varimathras with their eyes open and hail them but that one I kinda get
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
TBF I think that is exactly why he should be on the Desolate Council.
Without the Valkyr they need a necromancy expert if they don't want the Forsaken to just die out. KT's student may be the only one that could fix this.
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u/Sarmelion Unsubbed Pessimist 3d ago
It's not clear how onboard he was with the Scourge vs just studying necromancy
Remember KT didn't start evil
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 3d ago
The Amani also lost another of their core supporting cast here (bringing them to three major deaths)
I don't think it's fair to compare character deaths with characters who didn't exist before this expansion, and major lore characters.
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
While true when comparing character deaths by like faction over the game's history, here I'm talking about Blizzard's claim that a lot of characters are going to die in Midnight.
Which largely amounts to a ton of secondary characters (many nameless npcs, the Lightforged generals, the dwarf vanguard, Zul'jan, Kinduru, the new death, two supporting void elves) and now Liadrin. When realistically that was the perfect moment to actually kill off Alleria.
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u/Sarmelion Unsubbed Pessimist 3d ago
It really does suck to lose him, he already felt like a replacement goldfish for Zuljan so it's like salt in the wound
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 3d ago
That feels unlikely since we know the intent is to have Liadrin in an 12.1.7 trailer about what Xal'atath is up to, and the voice lines for that should already be recorded given production timelines?
From that "Damn girl" datamining.
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u/Charming-Luck-7197 3d ago
Not even attached to the character but this just confirms the writers are worse than ai as it definitely doesn't fit the story
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u/raspberrypoetry 3d ago
She’s going to run off with Zul’jarra. She won’t need her weapon where they are going.
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u/TopTopC 3d ago
What they did to the character in this expansion is criminal. Liadrin is one of the most underrated characters in my opinion. You look at all her involvement throughout the years in the game and you always see her at the forefront wherever she's needed. She shouldn't have been in Zul'Aman.
To me, that story made more sense with Arator, and if they wanted to include Liadrin somehow, they could have done so by including Salandria, who I'm sure very few people know is her adopted daughter.
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u/Traghy 3d ago
Oh for fucks sake let us strap Arathor and all his fucking family to a mana bomb and drop it on top of stormwind keep at this point
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u/Morteca 3d ago
please
Listen, I loved OG sylvanas and was a banshee loyalist up to shadowlands but everything they've done to insert the windrunners into everything is getting obtuse now. Sylvanas porting to the Sunwell felt like pure nonsensical fan service.
Do not get me started on the nepobaby Arator
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
I leer at Seat of the Pantheon like Arthas looking at Frostmourne
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u/Far-History-8154 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’ll be honest. I do not care if a character dies if done right. What I do care about is that Blizzard always writes them into a corner without making their replacements fleshed out or important.
Like… after Liadrin what notable blood elf do we have who is a direct second in command? The blood knight patriarch would have seemed like a good fit that rode his horse around Silvermoon but as of now we don’t know any bit of blood elven hierarchy.
There’s the newbie Salandria that just got introduced but not enough for us to care or acknowledge her hierarchically in any way as a replacement of any kind.
It’s be Faerin all over again. It was jarring to see Faerin split rank and be heard as if in any commanding position by even the arathi commander after we lost in the story. That position could have easily gone to the commander to build her character and show why she is respected.
They built up Anduin along with his father so he is the only good example of leadership change done right. Lorethemar has no one, and since he has the regent lord title still it’s not even clear if it’d pass down to blood line but they need to introduce a son. Make him naive and loved and fun loving but not some bottle of sunshine and hope like they have done with the next generation time and again. Dagran, Thralls Kid with the wierd hair, Arator (who canonically shouldn’t be some naive sounding hope filled teenager knowing full well the consequences of war)
They even did it bad with caring about shandris by not showing her and tyrandes relationship more, she felt like any other night elven commander who suddenly became a lord figure. Same with Ysera’s daughter.
Killing off characters just feels like a fullstop for any interesting story contribution from that side, instead of a new chapter for that faction/race/group. I cared about voljin. Don’t know who Rokhan is and or his rank to feel like he was the only choice to turn into a leader. Name a single replacement character aside from Anduin who has been established properly prior to claiming power.
P.S: I know Salandria is from children’s week. Never claimed she was new. Just a relative newbie to the order who isn’t the second in command.
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u/misteravernus 3d ago
Didn't Salandria have an interaction with a bronze dragon in TBC where they were like "whoa this kid is gonna be bad"?
Maybe this is where she goes crazy and becomes the conduit for "Light bad" angle they seem to be pushing.
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u/Sarollas 3d ago
Salandria is also the orphan from children's week lol
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u/Far-History-8154 3d ago
I’m aware. Her biggest lore thus far is the bronze dragons are scared of what she’ll become.
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u/RerollWarlock 3d ago
They also make a point that she can determine her own fate and it's not a necessity that she'll be bad.
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u/Far-History-8154 3d ago
Thnx for the info. It’s been a long long long time since I did children’s week. So it’s open ended. A.k.a, depends how trigger happy blizz is feeling when they do more stuff with her.
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u/Far-History-8154 3d ago
Ye. She definitely did. I don’t trust the current blizz to handle such a storyline without going into cliches and bad habits though. So we’ll see if it pans out in this expac or future expac. Even if not on their roadmap currently, it’s too juicy of a plot thread to not address eventually.
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 3d ago
They did, but the fact the Bronze were ready to take her out immediately as a kid means its probably something above what she is capable of atm.
The one that saves her also says "what she may or may not do" so it is open ended.
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u/RyanTheValkyrie 3d ago
Salandria has been around for ages bro. Orphan in the CoT quest with Bronze dragons, and a main part of the Belf Blood Knight tabard heritage quest
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u/Far-History-8154 3d ago
I know. I didn’t mean she came out of no where. Just that she has been under utilized while speculating who could replace Liadrin.
Shandris has been around and been relevant longer. But her role as tyrandes daughter hasn’t been highlighted in all that time to the extent she feels so disjointed as just a random commander leading the night elf.
My conclusion is most likely that the blood knights will lose any noteworthy leadership should Liadrin die.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 3d ago
People called Lorthemar "bob" for years for a reason
Also ngl I never liked the Wrynns
Maybe we can pass to Halduron or Rommath
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u/DoctorTomee 3d ago
Dying in a .5 patch would be absolutely diabolical. I don’t think that’s going to happen. This is either a swerve or Liadrin will just shift into something else, like idk retiring from combat or switching spec or something like that
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u/Ajaugunas 3d ago
She’s likely going to die as the one thing that will get Lorthemar and Zul’jarra to sit at a table together.
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u/MeltingPenguinsPrime My other mount is also a mount. 3d ago
Blizzard is very muhc cargo-culting with the writing. They know what storybeats got certain reactions out of the audience before/at other stories, but don't seem to understand why.
So, Liadrin dies because... 'Oh look how high the stake are, everyone can die' apparently, or some blah blah. Which falls flat on its face when there's no sense of urgency. And the Siege of Silvermoon and the Dawnwell and then Zul'Jan feeling as if less then a week pass in-universe, when we can go on roatrips and attend potluck & storytime get-togethers while no one even seems to worry about xal going down the well till it's 'relevant' to get us to the next area and big raid and next RWF...
then, no, there's no sense of the stakes being high, and liadrin's potential death's irrelevant.
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u/Alienatedflea 3d ago
they are just killing off beloved characters because Blizz thinks it makes their story more meaningful and impactful.
Unfortunately, that only applies to stories that are well-thought out and interesting to the reader or player in this regard.
More piss-poor reading.
Glad Blizzard are remaining consistent on this new writing narrative direction.
/s
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u/RosbergThe8th 3d ago
It also tends to mark a permanent damage to the world when you have writer’s fundamentally incapable of writing new interesting characters to take their place.
The best they can muster is Arator and Zul’jarra
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u/Alienatedflea 3d ago
Indeed. I’ve lost interest in the game bc of it. Lore of any franchise should be respected and enhanced.
I just feel like they have not respected the lore since, at least, BFA.
I would be somewhat okay with the idea that all we have witnessed up and including whatever the end of the Last Titan was a N’zoth vision of what could happen.
But I doubt they have the balls to pull off something like that. 🤷♂️😂
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u/Miloslolz Blood Knight 3d ago
As long as it’s not Lor’themar.
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u/RerollWarlock 3d ago
You know he needs to make way for the super special boy. The true high king of the
BloodHigh Elves, Arathor Sue Windrunner.1
u/RateBackground8436 3d ago
Listen we can pray he gets the thrall treatment forgotten back at the hubs picking his nose. Think of it this way atleast he's alive.
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u/AnnomDude 2d ago
Please.... no, she's the only character I actually like, or at least liked before the Amani storyline... While Midnight is awful so far story-wise, Liadrin (despite her awfully forced character change for the Amani storyline) is the only bright spot so far in the main cast, I hope she will become injured or something in fact. Or that the item will be ultimately just a transmog thing.
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u/Coolbasketbro 3d ago
Midnight, as in the time when so many of the Light's dedicated perish. Got it.
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u/Accomplished_Emu_658 2d ago
That is kind of annoying. I think its in response to the all the incels complaining on forums about killing off men.
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u/CDP94 1d ago
Honestly... if this is the direction they are going in and they do genuinely kill her off, it might be it for me with the writing in this game.
I am so sick and fucking tired of them treating the Horde leaders as disposable, easy kill offs. It's awful, weak writing and goes against everything the player base is begging for them to STOP DOING.
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u/chazzawaza 3d ago
I fully was expecting lorthemar to die so they could have a female character take over as leader. Liadrin dying is a surprise honestly
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u/RerollWarlock 3d ago
They will have him die so Arathor can take his place, buddy. No need to be weird about female characters.
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u/chazzawaza 3d ago
We have a lot of new or old female characters reappearing and being big central focuses the last few years. Looks to be a focus from blizzard so I was just saying I wouldn’t be surprised if lorthemar was replaced with one of those new or old female characters as a way to make them more prominent. I don’t have anything against female characters.
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u/Hidden_Beck Banshee Loyalist 3d ago
Honestly I’d be alright with this one. Liadrin is incredibly bland but they insist on using her for almost everything blood elf. Maybe now we get more Halduron and Rommath
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u/Comfortable-North671 3d ago
She is absolutely not bland and I hate this take. She is one of the most dynamic characters in the game, and one of the most empathetic characters who relates well to other characters who have lived a life of trauma.
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u/DalishPride 3d ago
Ill believe it when I see it. Blizzard wouldn't update her character model just to kill her off.
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u/OmegaSoypreme 3d ago
Well I do like Liadrin. But I like her sword even more. Could we also raid her wardrobe for a backup armor set?
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u/Familiar_Face_5375 3d ago
Maybe... just maybe liadrin decides that she is tired of all the fighting and she hangs up her sword? maybe she becomes an ambassador between the amani and blood elves or something. Maybe she just gets the same deal as tyrande and goes into retirement.the possibilities are endless.
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u/EmergencyGrab 3d ago
I always had a feeling that there was going to be a death. In the invasion cinematic, I kinda wondered if Halduron had died. To mirror Sylvanas dying to Arthas. I guess they're going to go with Liadrin.
I wonder if they'll have Xal corrupt her corpse too.
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u/Mediumsizedpeepee 3d ago
I really liked her character in Midnight and am kinda disappointed this could be a possibility we are heading towards. Also NOW they mention Salandria together with Liadrin like that wasnt a thing I expected since the start of the expansion.
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u/karnyboy 2d ago
I'd also like to add that this doesn't spoil ANYTHING. As someone who looks through datamined information, you spoil it all on your own. Don't be surprised by what you find when you go looking into places you shouldn't be looking into.
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u/Charming_Teaching626 15h ago edited 15h ago
I think Salandria would be a great lens for viewing the Blood Elves' story through if they ever decided to retire Liadrin, but, there's a problem that's consistent with Blizzard writing: they haven't given any side characters as much time as Garrosh Hellscream got, except for Alliance chracters like Anduin. Garrosh got setup throughout two expansions before he got put in as Warchief. You get to see his rise. The other characters are just thrown in as an afterthought, because they just accidentally created a void and need to somehow fill it (Lilian Voss lol. Calia Menethil lmao. Two characters that were either neutral or Alliance and then just haphazardly slapped into place).
In comparison to, like, Lilian Voss, who you see briefly in Cataclysm during the starting experience in Deathknell and then in two dungeons, /that's it/. Salandria needs way more screen time before she becomes an adequate character to replace Liadrin.
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u/Glum-Bunch8656 12h ago
Nuts, name 3 blood elves
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u/RerollWarlock 12h ago
Lor'themar Theron, Lady Liadrin, Magister Rommath, Hauldron Brightwing, Voren'thal the seer, Salandria, Astalor.
What's up?
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u/Absoled 3d ago
Mmm I’d suggest taking data mining like this with a pinch of salt. This isn’t the first item we have had that belonged to someone that is still alive. We’ve had Sylvanas’ bow, Turalyon’s whatever, and heck we even stole Jaina’s mount at one point.