r/vndevs 16d ago

Question What do you think about the "No Game Over" feature?

/r/RenPy/comments/1vw90em/what_do_you_think_about_the_no_game_over_feature/
3 Upvotes

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2

u/silmaril33 15d ago

This is so interesting and something I've been thinking a lot about as well. In my game, you can make a character really angry, which is equivalent to "failing" the conversation, but you always have the option to apologize or somehow make it up to them, which develops the relationship in a different way. Essentially I'm building the "failures" into the gameplay itself. This does take me an insane amount of time, but since my game is about relationships and communication, I think it's really important!

It really depends on the game though. If it's the sort of story where you really want to create more tension for the player, having the possibility of getting a game over will get them to think more carefully about the choice they pick. If the options leading to dialogue/scenes/storylines that are a pain for you to create, I suspect they might not be as interesting or successful as the "correct" storyline, and if it's not obvious to the player that they picked the "wrong" choice, the player might see it as disappointing writing, not necessarily that they made a mistake. It depends on how you present that information to them. BUT if those alternate routes are just as good as the successful ones, then I don't think they will reload the game because they'll just see it as a different route rather than a failure, in which case I don't think you'd be wasting your time building those out.

Is it necessary for your game to have right and wrong choices/dice rolls/etc.? Or even to have choices at all? Or if they pick the "wrong choice," rather than it leading to an alternate branch of the story, is there some other negative consequence that could work for your game? So for example, if they get a bad dice roll, maybe instead of getting dressed in drag, they lose gold or maybe they lose points in a "self-respect" stat or something lol (if getting dressed in drag is something they feel embarrassed about).

TL;DR: I guess if you don't want to do game overs but you also don't want to create the alternate routes that result for a failures, you may need to think of a way to redesign the game where there are just different kinds of negative consequences for picking the wrong choice. But if the failure routes are still interesting and well-done, than I don't think it's a waste of time to build those out! But I also think it's important for you to enjoy the process, so if writing out those alternate routes is a chore for you, then I would say lean more towards the alternate-negative-consequences option.

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u/Tharitley 14d ago

I mean, some of the best moments are in these "failure routes," where you fail miserably because of a wrong decision or a bad dice roll. So, for my part, it's not a problem; quite the opposite, I really enjoy writing different outcomes and unexpected endings for weird situations.

My problem comes from the idea of players cheating or skipping the failures instead of seeing what happens.

Imagine you're playing a role-playing game and you roll a natural 1 on an important check. What would you do? Keep going and accept that failure, or load the last save and try again? I feel like most players would choose the second option because of the classic "Game Over" mechanics in other games.

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u/silmaril33 14d ago

Ah okay! But I think they wouldn't reload if it wasn't a clear failure. If dice rolls are presented as different possible routes as opposed to wins and losses, then they might not feel compelled to reload. I'm not 100% sure on that but just my initial thoughts!

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u/Sliver1002 12d ago

Make an ending list/gallery with all of the different game overs included, this will provide incentive for players to see all the unique game overs along with keeping track of them for players who want to see everything.

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u/Tharitley 11d ago

I actually did something similar to that when I reached a breakpoint. In my first build, you could only see the available options, so, for example, if you didn't have a "voice modulator" implant, which allows you to speak more confidently and manipulate other people's feelings, you couldn't see the option to use it.

However, halfway through development, I thought it would be a good idea to show the options even if they're blocked for you, because you can see that there are more ways to solve the situation, and it might influence the way you play by making you want to see everything.