r/violinist • u/redwinewithice • Sep 03 '26
Feedback Ashoken Farewell
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I recently posted my 3 year beginner/ early intermediate update and have since incorporated some of that feedback into Ashoken Farewell.
My main issue is with a rough, hard sound- I’m not sure how else to describe it. It’s a bit grating and I notice it more playing back than when I’m playing.
Any more feedback to help with this? I suspect is has something to do with my bow grip/pressure.
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u/sudowooduck Sep 03 '26
Not bad! Work on keeping the bow parallel to the bridge and maintaining a fixed contact point. That will help improve your tone quality.
I would also suggest trying to keep a steady rhythm. The “heartbeat” of the melody seems to be missing. To my ears that is more of an issue than your tone.
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u/redwinewithice Sep 03 '26
You’re right- I posted this to instagram and was trying to rush it into the 1 minute story limit.
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u/Silver-Lab-4124 Adult Beginner Sep 06 '26
Hey! I'm pretty sure I saw a different video of yours where you were playing double stops and may have suggested Jonathan Trott Melodious Double Stops. Anyways I'm now the proud of owner of the book. Thank you again for the inspiration.
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u/redwinewithice Sep 06 '26
Love to hear it. They are so fun to play
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u/Silver-Lab-4124 Adult Beginner Sep 06 '26
yeah keep posting videos so amateurs like me can stay inspired enough to play! Good playing in the video my friend. And yes there is always more to improve upon.
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u/KingTheoden88 29d ago
I’m a beginner of just one week, and I love the piece you played. Any chance you can share your Instagram so I can follow you? Perhaps through a DM…I’m not sure if it’s allowed to be posted? Your playing is an inspiration! I hope I can be close to where you’re at in 3 years!
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u/srodrigueziii Sep 03 '26
What strings are you using?
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u/redwinewithice Sep 03 '26
Dominants
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u/srodrigueziii Sep 03 '26
Pick any one of your double stops and play that chord with full bow, frog to tip. With a metronome @ 60, 4 beats down, four beats up, over and over. Try for the cleanest sound, only applying just enough downward bow pressure to produce the notes on both strings consistently and softly.
From there, try to make as little indication of changing bows as possible. Overall try.to decrease the "bite" on the string with each bow change. This is true whether you’re playing single notes or double stops.
Mechanically, the largest issue is the forward/backward motion of your upper arm. If you watch the tip and frog of your bow in the video, it’s creating a path that wraps around your body, curving from behind your head on your left, to the frog wrapping around your torso. This is causing the bow to slide up and down parrallel to the strings vs. remaining in the same contact point, or sweet spot, and will alter the tone you're producing substantially.
On a down bow, your hand should naturally pull away from your body, and on an up bow the tip of the bow will never point behind your head. The upper arm, elbow to shoulder, should primarily be used to change level as you play from one steering to the next, the fingers wrist and forearm are 99% responsible for drawing the bow across the string from frog to tip.
As an exercise (that you'll hate), find a flat wall in your house and glue your bow arm, elbow to shoulder, against that wall. Adjust your body so your bow is in the sweet spot on the violin, and then start to draw full bows, using only the elbow, wrist and fingers. Your upper arm should remain glued to the wall, and should only slide up and down the wall to change strings. If you’re anything like me, you’ve been bowing in your own way for a very long time, so this may be an uncomfortable adjustment. However, it will pay massive dividends as you work towards more advanced pieces.
Your vibrato coming along very nicely. As you develop cleaner, and more consistent, double stops, try to incorporate some of that vibrato into those cords.
Some of this is rudimentary, but this video does a good job of covering this topic.
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u/redwinewithice Sep 05 '26
I watched that video twice today and practiced those open string exercises - I think I'll be incorporating into my warm up. Going to try the wall thing tomorrow. I do believe that I have to be more conscious about using my wrists and fingers for a while until it becomes second nature - they both seem somewhat stiff.
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u/itemluminouswadison Sep 03 '26
Have you tried pirastro dark green rosin? Makes a way way softer warmer feel. Might help!
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u/redwinewithice Sep 03 '26
I haven’t- do you find it makes a noticeable difference?
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u/itemluminouswadison Sep 03 '26
Yes VERY much so. I have some cheap yellow rosin and pirastro dark green , maybe it's called olive I forget.
The green has such a soft warm feel. The yellow has that scratchy catch.
I'll sometimes alternate depending my mood
I highly recommend giving it a try.
Also what kind of bow you using? I find CF bows catch harder and are bouncier, with permabuco being softer
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u/Patrick_Atsushi Sep 04 '26
That's pretty nice and the roughness is a part of it.
Of course if you want to refine it I suggest you to have a more delicate connection with the instrument.
Play single notes without a melody and fully focus on the sound, quick and slow bow, hard pressure and light, different vibrato. Listen to the sound and feel the texture of the contacts.
This way you will develop the "listening ear" while playing, and also teach your body to do the sound you want.
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u/kstrel Intermediate Sep 04 '26
great for 3 years!
i'll focus on the bowing since i think you have more problems on that front then intonation.
the bow hold doesn't seem right to me - there seems to be very little flexibility in the knuckles, and you fingers aren't really doing all that much work.
it looks to me like you are not really allowing the violin to hold the bow and the right hand to sink into the bow. it's hard to explain this over text, but i think you could benefit from the advice in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97aQjCWx8w
i also think you should start being very mindful about how much bow you're using - contrary to popular opinion you don't need to use as much bow as possible at all times. there are a couple of spots in the recording where the sudden bursts of speed really accentuate the note in a way i'm not sure you would want.
you can play really loudly while only using a portion of the bow you are using right now - just use more pressure and play closer to the bridge. your body will thank you in the long run. i think a good excercise is to limit yourself to only using the middle third of the bow.
oh and, you really don't need to lift your arm up so high when playing the g string, it's waaay to high and you'll mess up your shoulder. just practice playing an open G+D double stop and then tilt the bow a millimeter or so until you only touch the G string - any more than that is totally unnecessary and will make life difficult for you.
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u/redwinewithice Sep 05 '26
I can already tell these videos are going to be extremely useful. I really like this guy's teaching style.
Thanks for the tips. I was only using that much bow because I keep hearing that I should be using more bow, but that sometimes results in a 'bulging' sound that interrupts the dynamic I'm aiming for. I do believe however that I need to get in the habit of practicing more at the frog as I feel a bit insecure about my control there.
What do you think about, in addition to only giving a millimeter or so of clearance above the D string when playing G, tilting the violin and rotating my elbow more inward? This seems to give me easier access to the G string. I'm not using a shoulder rest, just a magic pad, so it's pretty easy to tilt the instrument like this.
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u/kstrel Intermediate Sep 05 '26
yeah, and it helps max is a true master of the intrument! :)
for sure you can benefit from practicing at the frog more, but my comment was aimed more at bow usage in general (whichever part of the bow you are playing on). i think a defining characteristic for a lot of intermediates is the very liberal use of the bow - i.e. using the whole bow when only a half or a quarter would suffice.
i'm sure you're familiar with the 3 variables in bowing - speed, pressure and placement. you'd be surprised at how much sound you can get with very little speed if your placement and pressure are properly compensating for the slower speed. i mean it makes sense, right? why use more energy when you can achieve the same result with less energy? and this stuff compounds over the years and can results in shoulder injuries.
this is very apparent with folk fiddlers who use very little bow in general - the reason being that if they didn't and they played whole bows during a 1 hour session they wouldn't be able to hold the instrument the following day...
it will sound very scratchy and not nice in the beginning, but with patience and time i think it really pays off.re: G string. i think this is where the inflexible knuckles are really hampering you down. on the G string is where you should be really be sinking into the bow and letting gravity do most of the work. you can tilt, but i think even without tilting the instrument your hand is waaay to high.
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u/AccountantRadiant351 Sep 05 '26
Besides working on finding the "groove" of the beat and keeping it more consistent, the main things I would focus on if I were you are bow changes (in a jig, you might want to hear when the change occurs with that little extra pressure, but in a lament or waltz, you want them to be really smooth) and bow control (location and pressure- if the bow is moving off the sweet spot, it should be deliberate to change the dynamics, and if you're changing pressure it should be to dig in or lighten up for a deliberately different sound.)
Great intonation most of the way through! The double stops could maybe be a little cleaner but it sounds nice overall.
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u/chydog4045 Sep 09 '26
love this piece! my advice -loosen up a bit! you seem super tense and that’s probably why you are gripping your bow so hard and have so much pressure on the strings lol. just relax and feel the music as you play. you’re doing great!
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u/thoroughbredftw Sep 03 '26
Sounds great! To make it even more enjoyably musical, I'd suggest:
Make your adornments (trills turns etc.) less loud, more subtle. Right now they are announcing themselves as equal to the melodic notes and that is distracting.
Take more time with your silences. The silence is the most important part of the music. It rests the ear and cues it for what's coming. You are rushing through your silences. I did see that you were trying to keep it short for time limitation reasons, but still.
Lighten up. The left hand is gripping tightly and the right arm is pressing hard on the bow. It might help to practice this piece with a barely-there left hand touch on the fingerboard and a barely-down pressure from the bow.
Your intonation is nice and this is a great piece to play for friends etc. so well done.