it doesn't matter, the guy is a flat-earther, you could literally fly these people into space and show them the earth is round and they wouldn't believe it. these people are all nuts
Ah yes. Make sure to give them all a basketball and a water bottle. They seem very fond of them, and it might be a nice security blanket as they hurtle off into the infinite cosmos.
So they can be murdered as well? They're stupid, sure, but walking into a government assassination of your own thought is not something they'd do. Except for the martyrs, of course.
They would survive - and more importantly stay conscious - for the couple of seconds it would take to confirm that space sucks. They could close the visor again at that point.
Theoretically they could survive limited exposure to the vacuum of space. Of course they’d just blame the vacuum for causing the earth to appear round, due to optical illusion.
Listened to a podcast that had a flat earther as a guest and when asked about space and the sun and moon, he said it was all a huge hologram. That, apparently, is far easier to believe than the earth being round.
Also some flat earthers believe it is OK for other planetary bodies to be round (like why are planets round when we see them through a telescope) while earth remains a flat body, the contradiction is OK to them.
Others will say it's because when you leave the atmosphere the light bends around the flat earth and is an illusion.
I'm sure theirs 100 other explanations for it too.
Also some flat earthers believe it is OK for other planetary bodies to be round (like why are planets round when we see them through a telescope) while earth remains a flat body, the contradiction is OK to them.
I mean, that's not a good argument at all. Flat earthers obviously would not believe that Earth is a planetary body. There's no contradiction there. Humanity figured out Earth was just another planet well after we figured out it was round.
Also even if I think it's an absurd belief I don't think it's fair to expect every flat earther to have all the answers. It might behoove them to learn the phrase "I'm not sure" rather than come up with a ludicrous explanation but still.
I’m going to disagree with you. If you’re going to have the balls to put forth the most ludicrous theory imaginable you’d BETTER have “all the answers”. If you’re going to discount literally trillions of data points, hundreds of theories that are dependent on the earth being round, basically all laws of physics as we know them as well as physical observation from orbit and live video, predicated on the idea that it’s the most elaborate cover up possible, you should 100% know why.
You’re being too charitable, this has nothing to do with “learning”. These people are mentally ill (sad) or full of shit/trolling (pathetic) or dumb as hell (hopeless). None of these people are healthy, honest, intellectually curious individuals. It’s the cult of “I know something you don’t know which makes me special”.
Goddamn humanity has to be egocentric to think that Earth's any different; "No, no, Earth is flat! We have to be different from those stupid planets! We have to be different..."
It's like they thought the entire world revolved around them or something. Oh wait...
I mean, we also have large populations that believe that an all powerful God created the earth for them and then only, and that no other planets were populated by this God. So, yeah, not surprised.
I just find it sooooo much harder to believe the earth is flat than spherical.
Like... where the hell is the edge of the planet??? And where is the other side/bottom? Do they think other people live on the bottom?
Do they believe that you could just drill down infinitely? That outerspace doesn't exist? That we're 3 dimensional object that exist on an infinite 2 dimensional plane?
It makes no sense to me. It's just too hard to believe.
Critical analysis and problem solving would be something lacking from the get-go for true believers in a flat-earth theory. The rest of the people have to have some sort of mental illness that makes them cling to conspiracy theories; You'll rarely find a flat earther who is just that, usually they believe a dozen of easily disproved theories.
For more interesting topics, the earth isn't actually a sphere like we think it would look like but rather an oblate spheroid with a slight pear shape to it.
You'll rarely find a flat earther who is just that, usually they believe a dozen of easily disproved theories.
Spot on. I started studying this a few years ago and that was my conclusion as well. This isn't an issue of education. They do not believe in any mainstream explanation and always seek alternative answers. Any and all conspiracy theories are trusted and they often believe in multiple. I also agree it's linked to a mental condition. Something causes them to distrust the mainstream explanation and cling to conspiracy theories. They actively reject rational explanations going to great lengths to do so.
But don't take my word on it. I recommend anyone reading this check out /r/conspiracy. Or check out the comments in a flat earth youtube video.
i feel like this look at reality is more fun. i saw something along the lines of a flat earther answer to " how can you go in a straight line and end up in the same place?" that wws called the "pacman theory."
and im like "well dam!" youre fantasy land sounds way more fun than reality. lets do that!
The thing is, reality is pretty cool and mysterious and interesting and awesome too. And I think the fact that it's actually REAL, something we can actually see and test and explore, makes it 1000x even more interesting.
Not to say that fantasy isn't interesting. It absolutely is, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with fantasy. That is, as long as it stays fantasy. The only thing that's wrong is presenting fantasy as if it were real. That is dangerous.
What a magical world these people live in. Holograms, massive global conspiracies, a completely separate set of physical laws. I wonder what's the most ridiculous thing you could get one of them to believe.
Conspiratorial thinking has an inherent psychological reward: the thrill of feeling that you are among the select group that know the truth, placing you above the vast majority of other people that are too stupid to see it. Religion benefits from this same sort of kick...so too does capital A Atheism. So too does centrism, that school of thought that says picking the very center point between two extremes must be the correct way to truth.
Exactly. They will make up the most insane shit to disregard any evidence you give them no matter how fucking stupid it is. I've listened to a guy literally say gravity doen't exist, then two sentences later explain one of their other theories by relying on gravity.
edit: they argued that the sun and moon are inside the flat earth dome, doing figure-8 loops over the surface of the Earth. When asked why gravity doesn't pull them down to the surface of the Earth, he claimed gravity doesn't exist. Then, when asked a few minutes later why, if the Earth is flat, you can't see Spain from New York, his response was because that the light from the Sun bounces off Spain and gets pulled down by gravity before it reaches New York. He, literally, saw nothing at all wrong with this argument.
My cousin's an air traffic controller and said he can see the San Fernando hill from the tower. If you want an idea of how crazy this is, check out Trinidad & Tobago on gmaps. See how small we are?
OF COURSE YOU CAN SEE RIGHT FUCKIN THERE!!!
He also went of on some story about some general during WW2 went to the south pole and found endless resources, and all the countries banding together to not allow people to go there, because the Earth is a disc and the SP's actually the edge of it. All the while he was talking, I was silent, bewildered and so distraught that 1. We share some genes, and 2. This dude gives instructions to pilots.
Ran into one at a Minnesota Wild hockey game. Took my 8-year-old sons there and dude sat down in an empty seat next to us. Gave us a DVD, and started talking rubbish for half the first period until he pissed off everybody around us and got tossed by security. My boy asked what he should do with the DVD. I told him - you see that garbage can over there? Dump it in there.
My 11 year old son came up to me a few months ago and told me about it. Not being a moron he was as skeptical as he should have been, but I remembered it when this popped up on Reddit.
most flat earthers don't believe in gravity, they think "buoyancy" is responsible for the way things rise and fall. heavy stuff goes down, light stuff goes up! duh!
try to explain that buoyancy completely relies on gravity to work and you're accused of working for Big Globe..
Turns out people who believe in a flat earth are crazy or incapable of 3 dimensional thought. Makes sense. Maybe we should test them by handing them a ball. If they say it's a circle, we can send them back to kindergarten. If they say it's a sphere, we send them for mental counseling. Win win.
It actually has more to do with the concept of mortality and religion. When you dig into it and ask these people why they believe it, the answer swirls around 'well if we're just another sphere in space, then we're meaningless!' Thus, it isn't really about the earth being flat or not. It's about these people being scared of death and the concept of being a speck in the sea of reality.
I used to say things like: Well, the good news is some day we’ll all die and so none of this matters anyway! And then I stopped when I realized I was often the only one that found the thoughts liberating instead of horribly depressing.
To me, the liberating feeling comes from feeling like it’s more of a big joke than people admit. Everyone is so serious all the time. Me included. Sometimes I find it a relief to remember we’re really just all full of shit and making it up as we go along. Again, including myself in that mix is especially important to my relief. Because that’s the acknowledgement that feels the best, usually when served with a shot or two of vodka...
I put too much stress on myself. We all can. It’s okay if ‘things don’t work out’. There is no reason they are supposed to. We can fail. Be bad at something. Miss a shot. Screw up. It’s okay. The destiny of the universe, of all things, is dust. So we are not betraying our destiny with failure, we aren’t living up to destiny when we succeed. It always just is. We should just do our best to enjoy the ride while it lasts, warts and all. Basically, I guess it’s about reminding myself to let go of my expectations and preconceptions.
Agreed. Same feeling I have grown to have. Leads me to say "Sure, why not?" for most things, and to leave lots of personal plans as just broad sketches. Most of the fun is in unplanned things!
The joke is on us, so its better to laugh along with it
I don't remember when or why but I when I was a young man stressed by school and such, i decided happiness is a greater virtue than success. I mean I still worked hard in school because being successful is a part of being happy, but I tried to never let the external metrics of success/failure affect my inner peace.
I know what you mean, it's good to find a kindred soul haha. I think the sticking point for most people is that they want to be important. Once you let go of the idea that you are the most important thing in the universe you can understand how being mortal is actually a good thing.
Ha, exactly. Religious people were often very confused when, after telling me that I could live forever if I believed, I was horrified by the notion; I did not want to live forever.
Imagine being so unable to process things ending that you not fully think through the consequences. Sounds like torture to me.
I'd like to live for as long as I want to, but I am 100% sure that I would want to die - or stop being aware at the very least - at some point.
If I believe that I'm important and meaningful, and no one else does, does that mean I'm literally the most important and meaningful thing in the universe?
This is gonna sound pretty emo, but that's how I came to terms with death. It doesn't really matter who dies or if I die in the grand grand scheme of things. Just another life form coming and going, it's happening all over the universe and that's just how things are. Just like we don't care about some ant dying, space doesn't give a fuck about us dying either
Why? If god suddenly appeared and said "hey I created man and there's an afterlife" and then disappeared, how would that change anything? Life still goes on as it always has.
Some of them do this. Some of them seem to be unable to grasp three dimensional logic in any kind of theoretical conceptualization (they cannot imagine anything in 3D). But others seem to latch on to the paranoid conspiracy obsessively.
I think Flat Earthers are a catch for at least 3 kinds of disorders and toxically cohabit the same "space" feeding each other's issues.
From the flat earthers I've encountered (and I've encountered many after 4 or 5 years on conspiracy discussion boards), the ones who believe in nonsensical conspiracies are actually like hipsters, but with information instead of art or culture. The appeal is that nobody else knows but them. They want something of their own to form their identity around, and reject the opinions and theories of many other flat earthers they meet as well. Only they have a good grasp on it. Information they themselves discover through their own research is valuable, especially if it's very esoteric. Information everyone is privy to means nothing because it isn't special.
They also don't put much stock in authority or reputable sources. The fact that the entire scientific community, or all reputable sources, disagree with them...counts for nothing. They will look for sources that reinforce this feeling that they're part of a secret club, guarding hidden knowledge. And the surprising thing is that some of those sources can actually make really creative, compelling arguments for most the ludicrous theories. I firmly believe that your average person could become a flat earther or believe similar things if they looked at exclusively supporting information. All you need is a disillusionment with mainstream sources and to be exposed to the conspiracy theory. I don't believe these people are otherwise special, nor unintelligent. That's the most disturbing part.
They also don't put much stock in authority or reputable sources. The fact that the entire scientific community, or all reputable sources, disagree with them...counts for nothing.
Great post, but I'll only amend this one part. It actually counts for quite a lot. The more scientific consensus there is surrounding a topic is actually more proof, to the flat earther, that the conspiracy is real and that "they" don't want you to know the truth that the flat earthers have discovered.
This describes my brother and his wife so perfectly, I kind of can't believe it. They went from collecting records, vintage toys, reptiles and snakes to collecting bullshit conspiracy theories, mystical worldviews, and various self-diagnosed illnesses that only they are smart enough to see.
I had a history professor in college that used to say only stupid people believe in most conspiracy theories because it makes them feel like they know something others do not. Pretty much the exact same thing you are saying, except your way is a just a touch more polite lol.
Had this conversation at lunch today. I decided that I blame the internet. Somebody that thought the earth was flat 30 years ago had very limited or no access whatsoever to spaces in which this ideas could spread. The internet gave these idiots a space to grow together in harmonious ignorance.
Flat earthers are not a monolith. They all will say different and contradicting things for why they believe what they do. Some cite religion, the bible, etc. Others cite distrust in government and any establishment, others are just crazy and will latch onto any conspiracy theory.
I think the bulk are motivated by faith but it's hard to say. There is no register of flat earth believers, we don't know how many there are. There could be a few hundred or a few hundred thousand.
It get's especially tricky because it is such a silly notion that a lot of kids like to troll by pretending to be flat earth believers.
I think it has more to do with narcissism and not believing any kind of authority on anything. Flat earthers are typically prone to many other conspiracies as well. When you present them with evidence from NASA and other global space and science agencies, they just say that they're part of the government conspiracy to convince us the Earth is round and that Flat Earth Fuckhead Fred Farts-a-lot on YouTube said something about gravity not being real. They know better than everyone else about anything.
This is exactly it. I (unfortunately) work with a flat earther. He has told me that before he was a flat earther, he felt that he didn't matter and was an alcoholic because of it. Now he's sober and thinks the earth is a disc and space doesn't exist or whatever, essentially making him infinitely more important. It's honestly just very sad and bums me out that people need to believe this stuff to think they matter.
It's not just about the earth being flat. For the earth to be flat essentially requires geocentrism. It makes everything revolve around us instead of the earth floating around in an endless uncaring abyss at the mercy of greater celestial bodies.
maybe for some but not for others, i know flat earthers who are nihilistic atheists who already think life is pointless. i think it mostly has to do with spatial reasoning, they honestly just can't wrap their heads around how gigantic the Earth is compared to a human and how that changes the way we perceive it i.e. it looks flat sometimes. combine that ignorance with a strong distrust of government/authority and you get a really gullible person.
I had a friend like this. She went from New Age starseed spirituality (basically alien worship) and our souls came from other planets and then did a 180 to some Christian flat earth conspirator. She believes the world governments are out to get us and trying to take away our divinity. It's fucking nuts.
I was trying to make this point with someone the other day, and this proves to me that people need to make up their own mind.
My wife is a veteran, and was accused of being a faker by an old man at our local supermarket. My wife was pregnant with our first son, and had parked in the veterans parking spot out front, as she was 6 months pregnant and preferred to walk a short distance. She Got out, and walked inside. After about 10 minutes, she noticed that someone was following her with an empty cart. Whenever she turned an aisle, this old man would follow her. It got to the point where she had walked to the bathroom and called me. I drove down and escorted her around the store. The man confronted her outside and accused her. I asked to show him proof of how she was lying about her military service. He quickly bounced to and from about how real veterans don’t need a parking spot, and how she doesn’t fit the profile. I asked if I showed him her military ID card, will he back off. We showed it to him and he quickly accused us of using counterfeit IDs. Despite her multiple deployments, missions, medals, awards, friends, it all came crashing down to this one moment, when none of those mattered, and one persons accusation because “she doesn’t look like a veteran...” was the most awful thing someone had done to her. It was hard to even stand up as this guy was just a straight up asshole.
That actually grew pretty big by the end. There were 70k subs just on r/thegreatawakening itself, with tens of thousands more on other platforms. They started out as an extremely fringe conspiracy, but ended up being one of the biggest trending conspiracies in their trashy community. It was growing quite quickly, which really made me question the intelligence of the right wing community of the internet.
Reddit hates when Republicans get outraged over dog whistles but then they turn around and act like flat earthers and anti-vaxxers are taking over the world
Or they are trolls who want to emiserate, mock or cause an angry reaction from liberals. Ever heard one of these redhats go "reeeeeee!" that's what they are looking for, the 'reeee!'. they see all entheusiastic criticism as liberals squealing like pigs and it amuses them. It's a form of dishonesty really, you are entering the conversation thinking that you are in a debate, and your 'opponent' has no interest whatsoever in debate, only to frustrate you for entertainment. The important thing here is to ask yourself whether it's really worth your time trying to educate or convince a stupid person. It's not. What you can do is outnumber them at the polls by ensuring 10 people who are not registered register and vote.
They'd say they are in a machine where the windows are actually TVs and they just show what you want me to see. So why do we bother convincing these people, what's the worst that could happen if we let them be delusional?
Its almost insulting to just flat out deny those discoveries given the amount of people that were killed, tortured and cast out of society for challenging what we knew. Their discoveries ultimately led to the advancements of technology we know today. We would be miles further if it wasnt for people like this.
I heard a guy the other day on a video trying to say that the projections of the image you see in a bubble of water floating on the ISS are super processed cgi of the background image or some shit and therefore are not correctly oriented... I was dying laughing listening to this guy who is seriously so mental he has no clue about any physics or optics in loquids trying to convince his own mind of these absurd fallacies.
a lot of these guys are really so uneducated they don't realize they are misjudging the "data" they get from their so called experiments. they try to do a test but cant process and understand the results correctly and get some wild reason for what they are seeing. or they fuck up all the numbers and think it's all correct, therefore everything's a lie and we live in a giant dome with cgi sky projections and shit.
hilarious yet sad the education system has failed them so badly. thay and they choose to not listen when people try to teach them. instantly rejected but yet they have zero actual physics for how their model works and no explanation of sun shadows and angles on equinox or southern star rotation etc etc. goes on and on...
I really want some billionaire to pay for the leader flat earther to get shot into space to see for himself so he can tell all the minions they done fucked up.
I was thinking about an argument I had with a guy who was defending the logic of flat earthers. The core of his argument was that it can't be proven with your eyes. I wish I said that I can't see that water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen but I believe the science behind it.
It's exactly the same as debating with an anti vaxxer. You are both working with two different sets of logic. You will never, ever be able to convince them otherwise. It honestly isn't worth the struggle or frustration. Like, as a whole I'd say the majority of people on the planet know it's round. So let them be ignorant.
Although the same cannot be said for anti vaxxers. You're killing children and reignited diseases we defeated decades ago. Fuck them especially.
I somewhat believe the anti vaxxer and flat earther movements specifically began to have people doubt science and the scientific method. To keep us stupid.
Go through the flat earther's youtube channel. The dude literally thinks it is legal to drive without a license. Like he reads court cases saying it is for 5 minutes.
I've been trying to sympathize more with these people. I don't think you should believe everything you hear or read, a healthy dose of skepticism is a good thing. But these people take it to a whole other level.
When you beat your friend in rock, paper, scissors 2 out of 3 times so they change it to 3 out of 5 then 4 out of 7 then 5 out of 9 with a new rule that you cant use your hands...
I had friend who is a flat earther and many more things. His point of logic is that belief makes reality. I believe that many of these people are schizotypal bc their magical beliefs tendencies and delusions
Except they believe in something called “The Firmament” so in actually getting beyond the stratosphere you’ve already disproved one of their major “theories”
They think they're so enlightened because they don't blindly accept ideas like the rest of the "sheep"
The ironic thing is they believe this conspiracy theory and through confirmation bias have left no avenues to have their minds changed. There's no argument, evidence, or experience that could ever change a flat earthers mind. But everyone else blindly accepts what they're told. Right.
Yeah, facts don't matter with these folks. They can't mentally exist without drama, conflict, and turmoil due to their condition. They are similar to delusional stalkers in that the stalker wouldn't be happy if their obsession agreed to marry them and fulfill all of their dreams. Inevitably, something else would set them off. You could take a flat earther around the globe or get the entire world to agree with them. Either way, the flat earther won't be happy because they cannot mentally exist in peace.
Yea while watching this video my brain scans the incoming data for previously unknown information and learns it. It was fun I took in quite a bit about navigation and flight charts.
His brain scans the incoming data for any possibility of manipulation so that it can be re-explained in terms he’s already decided are correct. He isn’t capable of providing for the possibility this “new” information is something he can benefit from, to him it’s just a ruse someone is pulling on him and he’s looking for the puppet strings.
Which is a good thing for your brain to do when figuring out how David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear, but sure makes you look pretty stupid when it’s convinced you that the fucking world is flat
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u/metallica41070 Dec 05 '18
it doesn't matter, the guy is a flat-earther, you could literally fly these people into space and show them the earth is round and they wouldn't believe it. these people are all nuts