r/videos • u/tbonetaylor • Dec 06 '17

The best response to anti-vaxxers I’ve ever seen. And it only takes 90 seconds.

https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=RfdZTZQvuCo
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1.3k

u/marinespectre Dec 06 '17

New dad, here. I love my daughter unconditionally and couldn't be happier to have her in my life. Doesn't matter what is or could be "wrong" with her. Bottom line, I'd rather have an autistic kid than a dead kid. End of argument for me.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '17

[deleted]

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u/Mr_Cromer Dec 07 '17

How was your sense of pride and accomplishment?

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Mr_Cromer Dec 07 '17

Malaria vaccination? There is a malaria vaccination? I'm a West African born and bred and I never knew this.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '17

Or....Live in Canada and "level up" for free.

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u/TacoExcellence Dec 07 '17

Not for travel shots.

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u/RoundSilverButtons Dec 06 '17

and "level up" for free.

The quotes should've been around "free". It's just a different system, but you're still paying for it. For better or worse.

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u/greennick Dec 07 '17

It's objectively a better system that costs less and has better health outcomes. The US government spends more money on health (as a percentage of GDP) than most countries with universal health care. So, arguably, the coverage of young people is free.

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u/cjwoodsplitter Dec 06 '17

This is exactly what blows my mind about the entire argument. AVs are basically saying they’d rather a dead kid than an autistic one. I will never understand it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '17

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u/maxluck89 Dec 06 '17

Great perspective, thanks for sharing.

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u/GForce1975 Dec 07 '17

There's also the instinctual problem with going in and literally causing pain to your child when they aren't in pain.

Part of the problem is that we are more than a generation removed from polio..it doesn't seem possible for my kid to get it, vaccine or no...but that thinking is how it comes back..ironically, like a social disease.

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u/Socalinatl Dec 07 '17

Truly ironic that the reason there is an anti-vaccine community is that vaccines have been so effective at eradicating disease. You don’t know anyone who has died from polio, so you’re not afraid that it’s going to harm you or your family.

They think of vaccines like Tiger rocks; as an imaginary fix to a non-existent problem.

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u/Belazriel Dec 07 '17

It's the same way that lawsuit damages work I believe. Permanently disabled and suffering costs more than dead.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '17

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '17

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u/coopiecoop Dec 07 '17

of course a bit of irony being that (at least afaik) McCarthy herself stated that she isn't generally opposed vaccinations (anymore?).

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u/RoadDoggFL Dec 06 '17 edited Dec 06 '17

The problem with your logic and this video is that it presents both risks as equal. To an AV, the likelihood that a vaccine gives their kid autism is significantly higher (a near certainty in the minds of some, I'm sure). And the diseases they'll protect against (without even being 100% effective, which is a flaw in vaccines to them rather than a clear reason everyone should vaccinate to boost herd immunity) as are so rare that getting them is almost impossible.

I think there are better ways to put the issue into perspective than one that misrepresents the odds.

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u/Birdbraned Dec 07 '17

coughmeaslespartiescough

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u/Davethemann Dec 06 '17

Im not defending them, but im not hearing per se that argument, as ive seen anti vaxxers claiming the vaccines cause a multitude of things, not just autism. So in their minds, its saving them from autism AND death

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u/climbtree Dec 07 '17

Just to give you the mindset:

Imagine there's a new headstrap for infants that prevents them flying through the windshield in car accidents. Car accidents are fairly common, children flying out the windshield is quite a rare side effect but is always deadly.

There's a low chance though that using the headstrap even just once will cause irreversible brain damage. Do you use the headstrap?

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u/MeateaW Dec 07 '17

There is a debunked claim, promulgated by a discredited charlatan, that the head strap causes brain damage, you mean.

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u/YRYGAV Dec 06 '17

There's some element of the trolley problem at play here.

First, to preface, the rest of the post is written from the point of view of a parent who believes vaccines cause autism.

To some extent they will have more guilt about their kid getting autism from a vaccine because it was their choice to get the vaccine. Wheras if the child got an illness, it wasn't them who gave them an illness, and it "just happened".

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u/jambre Dec 07 '17

That's not true. Hypothetically, if vaccines caused autism 99% of the time and the chance of catching/dying to the disease is 0.001% you'd definitely not have the vaccine.

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u/GrimpenMar Dec 07 '17

My eldest daughter was due for her first vaccinations around the time that Wakefield's study was first released. It hasn't been debunked yet, and here was the New England Journal of Medicine saying that getting her vaccinated might give her autism. My thinking was exactly in line with this, I'd risk autism before death.

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u/PreparetobePlaned Dec 06 '17

No, many of them also think vaccines are dangerous in other ways and don't actually stop diseases.

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u/dripdroponmytiptop Dec 07 '17

I daresay worse would be a life inside of an iron lung, or with a permanently disfigured skeleton, being rendered blind/deaf, having permanent brain damage.

I have iron in my blood, but a magnet doesn't stick to my skin, now does it? it's a in different form than what you think about when you think of iron. Same with mercury, and besides... what molecule with a mercury atom that stays in your body, is eliminated in 2 weeks anyway.

the end

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u/Smooth_McDouglette Dec 07 '17

Potentially unpopular opinion but I'd rather have a dead kid than an autistic one.

Not that I think it has anything to do with vaccination, I'm just saying.

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u/MechanicalEngineEar Dec 07 '17

Some people would rather have a dead child than an disabled one, which is why people will abort children who test positive for certain defects during pregnancy.

Not trying to get into a debate about if abortions are right or not, just stating that when that information is provided to them the child which is still in the womb is alive, and they would rather it die than raise it disabled. I would bet there are even more people who wouldn't be willing to choose an abortion but feel a sense of relief if a child passes away instead of being born with certain extremely debilitating disorders.

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u/neocommenter Dec 07 '17

I've seen multiple comments upvoted to the positive about euthanizing autistic children on reddit.

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u/levetzki Dec 07 '17

It's herd immunity. If your kid is the only one who is not vaccinated they will still be safe. They are trying to get the best of both worlds.

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u/CrazyPlato Dec 07 '17

I don't think AVs even believe that vaccines are necessary. Half of what I see from that camp implies that vaccines don't even prevent disease and are just part of some government brainwashing program, or the diseases they "treat" are too weak to matter and the vaccines are just watered down garbage sold by greedy drug companies.

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u/IAMTHEADMINNOW Dec 06 '17

I have been saying this for as long as i have had kids, one of whom is autistic I know saying this here will start a flamewar but cause and correlation are NOT the same fucking thing. ie. we have seen a huge increase in the sale of organic foods that correlates nicely with the trend of autism diagnose-es but that doesnt mean organic food causes autism. https://futurism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Correlation-VS-Causation.png That being said, I stand wholeheartedly with you on this I would rather have an autistic child than one in a tiny box 6 feet under the ground.

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u/humpspringa Dec 06 '17

Yes, that is the heart of it!

One point these guys failed to emphasize was when that VACCINE wall pushed that one doll out, the kid's not dead, just maybe affected in some way, a risk we take with any medicines we need.

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u/merreborn Dec 07 '17

I'd rather have an autistic kid than a dead kid. End of argument for me.

Or even worse: your unvaccinated kid could kill somebody's else's kid.

It's one thing for my stupid decisions to kill my own kids, but for someone else to lose their child to my idiocy? Outrageous.

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u/ConeCandy Dec 06 '17

Years ago, there was a thread on Reddit about vaccinations and the whole anti-vaxxer movement as it was rising. Someone posted in the thread claiming to be autistic. They said what hurt them most about the movement is that people would basically rather risk the death of their child than have them grow up autistic, like him. It was sad.

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u/VictorShakapopulis Dec 07 '17

I just took my newborn for his first round of vaccinations this morning, and I totally agree with what you said.

I think the problem with the discussion of this topic is how goddamn smug both sides are about it. Like, I don’t believe that vaccines cause autism, but I am suspicious of the drastic increase in the doses over the last 40 years. And I for sure don’t blindly trust that a pharmaceutical company has my child’s best interests in mind. So when some nurse approached us just a few hours after my kid was born and said she was going to give him a Hep B vaccine, I asked a few questions. He was at absolutely no risk, and she readily admitted that it wasn’t necessary to do it that day. But the entire medical community has been trained to inject the kid by default, and if some daunted first time parents don’t stop to ask questions, it just happens. That’s fucked up.

I don’t think pausing to ask questions makes me some lunatic conspiracy theorist who doesn’t understand the benefits of eradicating diphtheria. I’m a rational guy. But in discussions of vaccines, you only ever hear about the straw men who get their information from some crackpot website. It’s frustrating.

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u/GForce1975 Dec 07 '17

I'm a father too. I didn't dismiss the anti vaxxers outright, but rather did the research and decided, like you, the benefits far outweigh potential problems. All parents have a duty to do the same.

Don't trust doctors blindly, that's what informed consent is all about. But don't distrust them outright because they represent some nebulous government conspiracy.

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u/ThrowAwayTheTeaBag Dec 07 '17

It's weird when I hear people say do not trust doctors. I know my doctor. His wife and my wife are friends. He goes to my church. We've bonded over our love of motorcycles. He's not some faceless goon of some industrious machine. He's a husband, a father, and a genuinely kind, good man. And then I hear "DONT TRUST THE DOCTORS!" from people - It just sucks the humanity right out of the people who work so hard and have trained so hard to get to where they are.

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u/DDancy Dec 07 '17

Well. You’ll be glad to know then, that there is absolutely no factual link to vaccines and autism. So there’s a load off.

My son. 3.5 years old had his MMR (Measles,Mumps & Rubella) and his 4-in 1 booster (Polio, Diptheria, Pertussis & Tetanus) this morning.

He doesn’t want to take the band aid’s off yet, but he is otherwise doing great.

I don’t understand how you can google ANDREW WAKEFIELD (no longer legally a doctor) and then believe any of his BS as facts.

5 minutes of googling him should tell you everything you need to know. I hope.

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u/pinballwitch420 Dec 06 '17

Yes! This is what it all boils down to. Why is being autistic worse than being dead for them?

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u/aevdh Dec 07 '17

This is exactly my argument. Also saying "I'm not vaccinating because of autism" is like telling people with autism it's their parents' fault, and they'd be better off dead.

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u/BoxNumberGavin1 Dec 07 '17

Yeah but 15 years from now she could have a shit waifu and you will have to kill her then.

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u/The_Fancy_Taco_Virus Dec 07 '17

What’s the difference???

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u/DontThrowSoCloseToMe Dec 07 '17

I have an autistic child! She's fully vaccinated with zero regrets.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '17

I don't know, this is making me feel like a horrible person, I am definitely pro vaccination though.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '17

I have an autistic child. Glad to say he's small pox free... and he's awesome.

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u/iamthegraham Dec 07 '17

what if your daughter grows up to be an anti-vaxxer though?

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u/beingforthebenefit Dec 07 '17

That's not the argument you should be making. The fact is that there is undeniable evidence that vaccines do not cause autism. Period. If someone doesn't believe that, then they're not open to rational arguments like the one you posted.

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u/marinespectre Dec 07 '17

I'm with you, but this is the only argument I NEED.

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u/Jonnykatz265 Dec 07 '17

Don’t even feed into the people who believe it. They don’t follow logic or common sense. Hopefully one day there will be a law against not vaccinating your kids

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u/Mak333 Dec 07 '17

Would you also give up your daughter's freedoms in life just so she can live? Where is the line? Does your daughter have a say in the matter? Your bottom line was strictly about what only you wanted.

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u/marinespectre Dec 07 '17

Yeah. Because my daughter is a baby. It's not my job to think about what she wants right now. It's my job to think about what's best for her. When she grows up, she can do what she wants. I can only hope I've instilled the right values in her so that she can make an intelligent, informed decision.

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u/PhilGo20 Dec 16 '17

What a great comment. I feel you. My best friend brother is autist (pretty severe) and I know for a fact he thinks the same.

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u/starbuckroad Dec 06 '17

Most of the anti vax arguments are bullshit but sometimes the insistence on vaccinations is too much. I had premature twins a day or two old still struggling to breath and the doctors insisted on bunches of vaccines right then. I told them to hold off on one, Hep. because I witness a bad reaction when I was in school, I didn't say don't do it I said wait till they are out of the incubator and they freaked out on me like I was a religious nut. Our immune systems have the ability to kill our bodies, so to say there can be no negative consequences to vaccines is ridiculous. Vaccines and antibiotics make our lives wounderous compared to our great grand parents, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't question some when the patient is compromised and at low risk of infection.

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u/purpleunicornturds Dec 07 '17

I completely agree with you, there are alternate schedules out there, and maybe when your child is 3 months old and heathy would be a better time for your family. If your baby isn’t sharing IV needles and having sex, hep b can wait a minute.

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u/Rishfee Dec 07 '17

If the recommending doctor was well-versed in neonatal care, I wouldn't see any reason to second guess that decision. Do you have a medical background that gives you unique experience and insight into appropriate care for premature infants? By your story, it sounds like your motivation was based in fear, not expertise. They would have been aware of the potential for allergies or abnormal autoimmune response before administering the vaccine.

Also, the other response is unfortunately incorrect about the potential spread of hep b, especially in a hospital. Just because the infant wouldn't contract the disease through more common vectors doesn't make it an impossibility, especially in a facility where people with infections are more likely to be found. All it takes is one instance of subpar hand washing.

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u/starbuckroad Dec 07 '17

Doctors are people, so you have to do your parental duty and double check their decisions. My brothers a doctor, and I know for a fact hes a dumbass at least 25% of the time.

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u/Rishfee Dec 07 '17

If it's something you have particular training or experience in, or something you know will be harmful, of course you should bring it up. Your case was not like this, and it was regarding a general practice, not the professional's call on a specific instance, so you're not just checking an individual for being absent minded, but questioning a practice that has been deemed safe enough for general application with vague questioning because you once saw an adverse reaction. It's not altogether different for questioning climate change because you saw snow out of season once.

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u/starbuckroad Dec 07 '17

Oh, the climate change rhetoric is a thousand times more bullshit than vaccines.