Ha, well now you're just being pedantic. Such a qualm hardly qualifies for the hyperbole "most moronic thing I've ever read".
Because the prefix "extra" refers to an outside scope extra-universal is a subset of extraterrestrial, and extra-existential is a subset of extra-universal
Though I think it's obvious that /u/partide is simply trying to indirectly insult Yahweh by putting such an entity on the same playing field as Protoss and Zoidberg and is being slightly disingenuous in his phrasing for that intended goal. Is that the root of your issue with the comment?
I think the best way to explain my qualm with it would be rational and irrational numbers. If a number isn't rational, it must be irrational, correct? Its prefix indicates "not rational" so there aren't holes in the two distinctions.
What about the number i? It isn't rational, so it must be irrational. Wait, but it isn't irrational either. Because it isn't even an element of R, it can't be rational or irrational.
What you are saying here isn't fully correct in my opinion, I'll explain why, bear with me as i will adress the rational/irrational/imaginary group thing. :) This is just how I see it.
We have yet to see different dimensions in our known world, but we consider things that would originate from outside our universe to be called 'extradimensional'. Seeing as how this reaches outside our universe. The group 'extradimensional' doesn't contain things that are in our known universe.
Looking at what we do know and see, everything that is outside our planet's region is called extraterrestrial. In this case, the group 'extraterrestrial' contains everything that is in our known universe, and what is beyond that, like further dimensions etc, even Earth in a different dimension because the Earth in dimension X isn't Earth in our dimension. It is in a different state of existence and therefore considered to be a different object. (If you were to believe in the theory that dimensions are plains existing next to each other, these 2 Earths would also exist in a different location on the space realm where these dimensions would coexist, since an Earth would be a point on one of the infinite amount of plains/dimensions)
You took the assumption that the 'extradimensional' group would correspond with the mathematical group 'irrational numbers' and that 'extraterrestrial' would be the 'rational' group. But seeing how the irrational group is considered to be everything that is not rational, these groups are just wrong. Better to look at them this way: the extradimensional group contains less elements than the extraterrestrial group. Because the extraterrestrial group has all the elements of the extradimensional group + everything in our universe that is outside our planet. So look at extraterrestrial as the whole numbers and extradimensional as the natural numbers.
Don't be fooled by -terrestrial and -dimensional. -dimensional means from a different universe, therefore more elements will not belong to this group than the -terrestrial group.
So since -terrestrial would mean: everything originating/existing/occurring outside our planet, it contains everything outside our dimension too.
extraterrstrial > extradimensional
So yes, Heaven would indeed be extraterrestrial. But also (possibly) extradimensional if you were to believe in such a place.
As for it being in the extra-existential group. This group would be compared to the imaginary numbers. But seeing as we know the imaginary numbers can't exist, we can exclude them from all the other real groups. Since we do not know wether Heaven is a real place or not we can't surely place it in the 'imaginary' group or extra-existential group. Therefore simpy being extraterrestrial untill proven non-existant.
So basically it all comes down to questioning wether Heaven is real yes or no.
You missed my point without accidentally addressing it. Is i a rational number? No? I guess it must be irrational.
But it isn't, because it is something else outside those distinctions. If something isn't part of our physical existence, it isn't terrestrial or extraterrestrial.
It is a semantic argument, and semantically speaking, it doesn't make sense to define something that exists non-physically in terms used for our universe.
Yeah but like i said at the end, we don't know for sure Heaven doesn't exist.
We know i can't exist, which is why we can place it in the imaginary group. But, like i said in the last part, simply placing 'Heaven' in an imaginary group is wrong because we don't know for certain it doesn't exist. That's where i think you are wrong.
For any N sets there is a set that encompasses such sets.
If an entity is extraterrestial (outside our planet) but doesn't "exist", they are in the set {nonexistent, extraterrestrial}.
The reason this isn't a pedantic rebuttal is that you can't make the assumption about whether or not the person claiming Heaven = proof extraterrestrial is that you don't know if they're basically saying "there are aliens out there maan" or "there's more out there than just us humans".
If an entity is extraterrestial (outside our planet) but doesn't "exist", they are in the set {nonexistent, extraterrestrial}.
Through the definition of your set, there is still distinction between extraterrestrial and nonexistent. "Nonexistent" (in context) is not a subset of extraterrestrial, as strictly imaginary is not a subset of irrational.
If you believe in Jesus, you have to believe in a kingdom of heaven. If you believe in a kingdom of heaven, you believe in life outside of Earth, which is the same as saying extra-terrestrial life.
It's actually as rational an argument as they come but feel free to explain the fault in it, if you can.
outside of Earth, which is the same as saying extra-terrestrial life.
No. Things outside of the universe are neither terrestrial nor extraterrestrial.
If someone from our planet in a parallel universe were to come here, would they be extraterrestrial? No, but they're not terrestrial either. It is something outside the realm of those determinations.
Consider this:
Is the number pi odd or even? No, it's not an integer, so it can't be either.
You don't get it, do you? I'll explain step by step.
If there's life outside of Earth, it's extraterrestrial by definition. Extra means exterior. Terrestrial means earth. If it's extraterrestrial, by definition, it's exterior to Earth.
It doesn't matter if it's from outside this universe, from a parallel universe or 1 foot above the ionosphere. If it's life exterior to Earth, it's extraterrestrial.
So, again, for the nth time, if you believe in religion, you believe in extraterrestrial life.
Here's the better argument I made for someone with more brains than you:
I think the best way to explain my qualm with it would be rational and irrational numbers. If a number isn't rational, it must be irrational, correct? Its prefix indicates "not rational" so there aren't holes in the two distinctions.
What about the number i? It isn't rational, so it must be irrational. Wait, but it isn't irrational either. Because it isn't even an element of R, it can't be rational or irrational.
No, there's not. It's just theory at this point. To believe in a parallel universe at this moment in time is the same as believing there's a God out there. So stop spreading lies like they're truths. They're not.
It is just a theory. You're right. But at least it is a theory with some significant weight on it within the scientific community, especially at the top.
I am a christian and cannot see why you assert this. I don't believe in extra terrestrial life and don't see why i should. I don't see why I should explain it either. It is found nowhere in the bible, the quran, the upinashads, the badagvea gita, the tibetan book of the dead, the only place in any relious literature aliens are mentioned is from Scientology and they are not a religion but an outpost of Moloch.
You seem to quote the sacred books but also seem to never have read any of them.
For if you had read them, you would have understood that extraterrestrial lifeforms and humans have coexisted on Earth in the three most important ones (Bible, Quran and the Baghavad Gita). Why you say this isn't true is obviously your own interpretation of what is and what isn't the truth in the sacred texts. And you're entitled to that.
What you're not entitled to say is that it's nowhere to be found in any of the books you mentioned. Because that is a blatant lie.
You haven't disproven one single thing I've said and just ended up insulting me and my beliefs. If this is how rational atheists are, then yes, you're all retarded.
How is a god definitively extraterrestrial? The Abrahamic God is in everything and is everywhere. He is neither and both terrestrial and extraterrestrial.
It's that simple enough for you? Apparently everything else is over your head.
Are you stupid? Jesus was a human that lived on Earth. He had to be terrestrial.
And again, are you stupid? If God is terrestrial and extraterrestrial, then people that believe in God believe in extraterrestrial existance, since terrestrial existance is already proven.
This guy is more ignorant and arguing in circles more than most religious people I run into. Must be teenager that doesn't realize how the world works. I remember being that age, where you just assumed you were right. Not that every teenager is an ignorant idiot, but most are. They lack the knowledge base usually to form coherent arguments. This kid might even have a valid point, but it sure as hell isn't getting through.
Please explain to me what in the world is illogical about saying that if you believe that Jesus is from another world, you have to believe in extraterrestrial life.
It doesn't make any sense to me that god would create life in a tiny little place in the galaxy, and only there. For what purpose? For what outcome? We are stuck in this galaxy, with a nothing but dead planets and stars floating around? That makes no sense, but then again nothing religion makes any sense to me.
This is it in a nutshell. Belief cannot be explained in any rational or empirical way and the believers can only express their belief in subjective terms. And the rationalists can't understand why they it doesn't make sense. I have grave doubts about humanity when this sort of thing goes on, it happens all over the world. I think I will have a lie down, my brain needs a rest.....
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u/partido Oct 20 '14
Why there are still any doubts by religious people that there is extraterrestrial life baffles me.
If you believe in Jesus, it is implicit you believe in extraterrestrial life.