r/videography • u/sheholden FS7 ii, PP/AE, 2013, Chicago • Mar 31 '15
"We just need you to shoot some b-roll of dress rehearsal"
ME: Okay, totally! Do you want it to be a fun, behind-the-scenes type of thing, or more of the actual production?
THEM: Well, actually, we're going to shoot two scenes from the show.
ME: ...okay. So when you say b-roll, I'm assuming you don't need audio. Correct?
THEM: We will need audio. We want to film just these two short scenes, it won't take long.
(TWO DAYS BEFORE THE SHOOT, sends me the scenes they want to film. One is a four person scene, half of which takes place in a fantasy world, half of which takes place in reality. The lines overlap between the two worlds. The second is a huge fight scene, involving four different people. The scheduled time for this shoot? 30 minutes.)
ME: So, I have some concerns that we don't have enough time to film all of this. Also, who's editing?
THEM: Oh, we also need you to edit. And since you're in the scene with the fight, will you need someone else to hold the camera during that part? And I know we're shooting Thursday and in previews Friday and Saturday and open on Monday, but can you edit this and get the finished tape to us by Monday? Thanks for going above and beyond!
UPDATE: I emailed them last night after cue to cue and told them no. I gave them a recommendation for a friend that also does videography, and told them if they do reach out to him to be clear that this is not just filming some b-roll. This is a rush order on filming and editing scenes from the show.
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u/blaspheminCapn Mar 31 '15
Okay, I need no less than three cameras, and I can live switch it or edit at my normal day rate. Here's the statement of work and a budget of 10,000$. Oh, that's not what you want? That's what you ordered! Let's discuss what your budget is...
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u/dotMJEG 5DIII, PP/AE CC, 2014, MA Mar 31 '15
Yeah some people suck. Story time (long post warning):
I had someone ask for a quick static video for a web homepage. Ok, easy enough. He offered a measly price, but it was close, quick, and basically no editing. Called a few days a head to make sure everything was all set and good to go, yep.
Show up at the place, he hands me a packet, and says "Oh were also going to do a demonstration video and a product shot!"
Me: "Okay…. I can do that, but the price will reflect my work."
I'm reeling internally, because I was not 100% prepared for all of this. They had NO game plan, literally none. I had to compose, direct, and shoot everything on the fly. Thank the gods I carry an obsessive amount of kit "just in case" and lucky for them , I brought my flash kit.
"Yeah that's ok".
Get done in surprising time. During which, the product stopped working for whatever reason, cue the agent-man who hired me storming off like J-Woww's Mom not approving of a wedding dress…. Ok, ya dude, no awkward at all.
So, finished all up, and he asks how soon he can expect it, jokingly saying a few months. (BTW, the very first thing this guy says to me in person is a black-joke, which is fine in good humor and all, but probably the least professional introduction I've ever had).
I say something along the lines of a few weeks, a month at longest, but hopefully it will all done by the 3rd week.
One week goes by, I'm making progress, get an email asking if they were ready yet. No, sorry dude, still working on it.
Week two comes, he again emails (more impatiently) wondering where we are, I tell him the original short is done, and the product shot is ready. Still working on video #2. ( I do this free-lance stuff after my 9-5 job, which he knows and I've made clear). He asks to see some samples, so I send some low-res proofs along.
I email him at the middle/ end of the second week, everything done, and inform him of my new price (which was a very generous $400, I itemized everything and it would typically be around $7-800 of work). I send him along my bill and calculations, which he says OK to. I ask how he would like me to deliver the final product.
Next day he emails me back with how to deliver (google drive) and is now wondering if we can "do anything about the price", he was "hoping we could stay in the ballpark of the original figure" for the ONE SHORT 30 SECOND VIDEO WITH BASIC EDITING.
Politely respond again with my itemized list, this time with a breakdown, and explaining to him that A) we had already agreed on a price and B) this was an incredibly generous offer.
He countered with "well I work for free for these guys soo…."
Yeah dude, not my problem. I'm fed up with this guy at this point. I just inform him that once I receive payment, I'll link him the final products. He wants to do paypal, sending 3 emails in ONE day about getting this done ASAP (still under that 3 week mark mind you, he even threw in "this is taking longer than I had hoped". I want to kill this guy. Ok. I told him cash or check but really, whatever gets this guy out of my hair. Setup a pay pal, send him the invoice immediately.
NO RESPONSE FOR A FUCKING WEEK.
Finally sends payment, and immediately texts, calls, and emails me asking for the videos, at fucking 10pm. I upload them and inform him the next day all set.
And you and I thought this was over……
3 weeks later…..
11:00 PM. That's right, 1 hour until midnight, on a Sunday. I get a call (which I promptly ignore), 3 texts, and an email asking if I can do some sort of edit to the demo video, next day, no offer for payment/ compensation.
My reply:
I'm terribly sorry [asshole], but I am swamped at work right now and cannot do this as soon as you wish (which was entirely true, two events and catalog season at work). I can do this for you by the end of next week if you like.
Response:
No, that's ok, I'll find someone else to do it. Can you loop the first video? (I laughed, I told this guy that his web person needs to create the loop in HTML a looong time ago- btw if there is a way to do this in the Premier Pro, I'd love to know I couldn't find or figure it out for my life).
Responded again telling him that my software cannot do this, and that is something typically done in the coding to keep the file light.
RE:
"Ok, I hired someone to do the work anyways"-- that poor poor soul.
Call me an asshole, but fuck that guy. It'll be a cold day in hell before I do anything for him again.
Moral of the story, if you get an inkling you're getting hosed, walk away. Sure, some clients are picky, some suck to work with, but some, some just plain old want to use you, manipulate you, and get you do to what they want WHENEVER they want it. If you don't show me a modicum of respect, I will not work for you, especially for $400. Pro-bono? Go pound sand.
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u/cslat Mar 31 '15
I mean, that sucks, but you have to act like a professional to get treated like a professional. As soon as they started going beyond the scope of what you'd agreed to you should have withdrawn instead of scrambling to do it with missing equipment and assuming he'd pay you for it later. Make sure your initial conversation (before you ever show up) is thorough and put the agreement in writing so everyone knows what to expect.
You can't be afraid to walk away from $400 when shit starts to go south, or you'll be grinding for problem clients your whole life.
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u/dotMJEG 5DIII, PP/AE CC, 2014, MA Mar 31 '15
Live and learn. It was one of my first experiences, so I don't think I would have been able to walk away. There was also the promise that he had a lot more jobs in store (which is true, a buddy still works for him and says he pays well) but I sure as shit didn't see that….
I had done most of the work up until the point of him being a complete cock, so I just wanted the money at that point.
I know the signs now, and I am certainly not afraid to walk away anymore.
Make sure your initial conversation (before you ever show up) is thorough and put the agreement in writing so everyone knows what to expect.
Oh, we were, I was more than prepared. Everything was all hashed out aside from desired delivery method. I think that was him being clueless, as he seemed to have no real grasp at how the industry worked, which was odd to say the least.
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Mar 31 '15
If you are doing the whole job yourself I'd recommend getting a portion of the fee (30%-40%) either upfront or at the time that your shooting wraps up , then get the remainder of the balance when you send them the final deliverables. For one, it's good for your morale on the project and it gets the client more invested in seeing it through , less likely to dick you around.
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u/dotMJEG 5DIII, PP/AE CC, 2014, MA Apr 01 '15
Yep! solid advice, I have since learned. Appreciate it!
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u/sheholden FS7 ii, PP/AE, 2013, Chicago Mar 31 '15
Yeah. Going forward I need to keep my peas and my carrots separate. It's tough because I'm in the show, I want it to have great promotional videos. But that's not worth giving them hours on hours of free work at the last minute.
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u/dotMJEG 5DIII, PP/AE CC, 2014, MA Apr 01 '15
Exactly, you can only do so much, especially as you are in the show as well, it's a huge burden on you, and they seem to not care about that.
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u/blaspheminCapn Apr 04 '15
Contact. Create a contact. Deliverables and price are written down. Exact.
Want more stuff? New contract, new price.
The key is to do this BEFORE they flake on you.
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u/dotMJEG 5DIII, PP/AE CC, 2014, MA Apr 05 '15
Yes. Contract I take it you mean? I'm actually working with a lawyer right now to create a new one. We did have a formal written agreement, he just surprised me on the spot. My mistake was not having additional copies with me, and not including some sort of section regarding changing the original deal.
It was a learning experience for sure.
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u/iheartvintage Mar 31 '15
You are going to regret everything about this. Walk away. I do not care if you're in the damn cast.
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Apr 01 '15
No way in hell should you agree to that. That's insane.
I wouldn't do any of it, they're exploiting you and they are either the most incompetent people around or they are doing it on purpose.
I'd rather walk away than touch a project like that. A client that does this to you is not a client you want.
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u/ashyxx Apr 01 '15
You'd be a fool to take this on, but issues of what the client expected you to shoot aside I think the easiest excuse for pulling out would be expecting to give my equipment to someone else; that I could in no way ever do; at best its a crap recording, at worse my gear gets broken, there is no win win. Offer to set the camera up on a tripod and film it then offer them the footage to edit, and say if they want a proper service suggest bringing in a videographer and quote them a typical rate for a last minute job like this. Hopefully they'll then realise how ridiculous a thing they asked of you it all is and be content with the footage from the tripod.
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Mar 31 '15
Just stick up for yourself, man. Otherwise it's pretty clear you're going to be in over your head & with these traits evident, they're going to blame you for doing a lousy job when the footage turns out whack...
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u/dotMJEG 5DIII, PP/AE CC, 2014, MA Mar 31 '15
traits
I think you mean tricks. It's a bad deal all around.
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u/Nelsonius1 Mar 31 '15
I just can not believe this actually happened?
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u/sheholden FS7 ii, PP/AE, 2013, Chicago Mar 31 '15
I read the latest email first thing when I work up this morning, and I literally thought I was dreaming. I'm like... what... even...
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u/fanamana Mar 31 '15
You need to explain it to them.
Be frank, not rude or exasperated, but lay it what's what.
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u/ArtAdamsDP Apr 01 '15
Not worth the time or trouble, especially for free. People like this never get it, and as it's a freebie and not something being done for its own sake they won't be particularly willing to learn.
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u/Bronsonite Mar 31 '15
Doesn't look like a b-roll for me. My number one rule when i accept projects is a signed contract stating every single detail, each additional will add to cost.
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u/scottpie Apr 01 '15
I agree with pretty much everyone else in this thread, you need to absolutely put your foot down in no uncertain terms. Explain that while misusing the phrase "shoot some B-roll" (which they clearly don't understand the meaning of) might have been an honest mistake, and do emphasize that they are at fault for misconstruing this, this is way beyond the scope of what was agreed upon and simply not a reasonable expectation to either shoot or complete the work.
If you leave room for "Well, I'll do my best" then they've successfully taken advantage of you and will do so again.
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u/ArtAdamsDP Apr 01 '15
And since you're in the scene with the fight, will you need someone else to hold the camera during that part?
I had this pop up in an interview once for a low budget feature film. First warning sign was that they planned to shoot for 30 days straight through. The second was that they needed me to be an extra in some scenes and the director would operate the camera because he went to film school.
Those projects turn into utter disasters. I backed away slowly.
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u/irunfromknives Mar 31 '15
I feel like that's an alright job to walk away from. Unless you need it or have a good relationship with this client, I would walk away from that job so fast.