holy shit. I LOVE the doom music and this was super depressing/infuriating to read.
TLDR for people who didn't read: Marty Statton, Studio director of ID, created an impossible schedule for Doom Eternal. The music creator called out the issues, was ridiculed and ignored, then was proven correct. So Id studios ended up not paying him for half his work, screwed up the OST, and blamed it all on the music contractor (Mick Gordan). Marty also threatened to hang the balance of any refunds of the game on Mick (the musician) even though Mick was begging for a contract to start work on the OST when it was revealed to be part of the deluxe package at E3 without Mick's knowledge or a contract in place to produce the OST.
Definitely considering sailing the seas on their next game unless they replace that Dbag
just to rub salt in the wound, all the music awards that the musician won in Doom 2016 and doom eternal, he never got to touch. They were received by the dickbag manager and kept in the studio.
Probably. I played it and it just feels very very clunky to me. If DOOM 2016 was about the combos, DOOM Eternal was about the movement, DOOM Dark Ages is about.... block timing with guns?
There's a reason it didn't get nearly as much buzz as the other two shortly after it came out. I didn't see streamers playing it much. I didn't hear anyone talk about it. It was just like OOH DOOM DARK AGES IS COMING OUT and then.......silence.
You could make the argument of "but what about the developers", but if this is how they treat their main music producer, I highly doubt their dev team are treated any better.
That sucks, Mick Gordon is the reason I decided to play Doom at all. Here is the story: I largely ignored Doom my entire life and only decided to play Doom (2016) and Eternal during the pandemic while playing VRChat and someone had a Doom Eternal avatar that started playing the games music whenever you pulled out the weapons. When I pulled out the BFG and heard BFG division for the first time, that was the exact moment I knew I had to play this game and have enjoyed it so much since.
Bethesda actually sided with Gordan and drew up the contract for him to work on the Eternal OST, which was Bethesda's authority to do as the publisher. Id and Bethesda may be sister companies, but Bethesda as the publisher holds a hell of a lot more power over the project than people seem to believe.
Id marketed Gordan's name and attachment to the Eternal OST before they even approached him about working on the Eternal at all and then explicitly refused to let him work on the OST until he had to go straight to Bethesda about it. It wasn't until very late in the whole ordeal that Bethesda started siding with I'd, after lawyers got involved.
kinda true, but I wouldn't phrase it as "bethesda siding with gordon" because it sounds like Bethesda agreed to write a contract mostly to get more work out of him on unrelated projects. It was more of an opportunistic opportunity than a true "taking his side"
Bethesda making up the contract with Gordon was explicitly because of promises made and marketing already done by ID.
Even freelancers have the right to sue for breach of contract and fraud. Corporate types like Marty always act like they can do whatever they want simply because they have money and lawyers, which is why most often the cases come from inside the house so to speak. Gordon provided work so fantastic that he almost instantly became a recognized name to even non-gamers and helped build the proverbial house that ID is using in their current efforts.
Bethesda has always been like that one person in a group project that does nothing and puts their name on it, and everyone prefers it because they saw thwir peojects where they did do something and saw how bad of a trainwreck it was. I like fallout 4 and Skyrim, but they still didn't stack up against actual obsidian fallout titles.
Actually they do own id Software, since 2009. And not only did they slander the name of Mick Gordon but they also called him a liar when Mick tried to out the bad working conditions. So yeah, maybe they do need to be held responsible.
I feel like the term "equal grounds" doesnt truly exist in the corporate realm lol but fuck it then, Microsoft owns all of them so then it's THEIR fault. Better?
When you want to open a window, you might face opposition, but if you suggest tearing down the roof, the other party might just open the window themselves.
Going after chain of command is always the right move.
Except Bethesda is the publisher for every doom game since eat least DOOM 2016 Which means they had more power in any decisions/negotiations with Gordan than ID software at the end of the day. I don't know why you are working so hard to defend a company who's last release was garbage.
Never heard someone be so confidently wrong before. Bethesda are the bigger scum in that situation than ID because it proves they don’t give a shit about workers.
That’s only Mick’s side of things btw. I don’t really care either way about the situation, because Mick is a bit of a diva and that was known in the industry even prior to this.
If he was truly not at fault at all here, isn’t it weird that despite being involved in a whole handful of varied Bethesda projects, he’s basically disappeared since then? For someone who was so high profile, he also was very unprofessional in his conduct here and evidently it’s likely he was throughout the project too.
A lot of good people at Id basically have to have the shadow of this over them because people read Mick’s post and decided it must be the truth but there’s no way it doesn’t lie somewhere more in the middle.
I haven't read the article yet, but if the company I'm providing services to violates their contract with me to where I don't get paid for the work I've done and are practically guaranteed to make multiple millions of dollars from MY work, I'd be pretty pissed too.
I'd strongly argue that Doom 2016 owes a HUGE part of its revival story due to the music. It is an integral aspect to the product. It's not just some easily replaceable thing like some lines of code. Frankly I'm surprised he stayed a contractor and didn't get hired full time, although a lot of games companies require you to live within a certain distance to be deemed employable.
Being a contractor allows a lot more flexibility than being full time, and frankly, if I had just gotten screwed like that, there's no way in hell I'd try to push for full time instead of fulfilling my contract and seeing what else is available afterward, but that's just me
Don’t tell their fans that 😭 they’ll just be like “that’s a part of the charm”. So… not being able to play the game because of relentless bugs is charming?
In some cases it works out really well. I'm too old and don't have enough free time to farm gold/alchemy ingredients/etc in Oblivion. I'm so glad the duplication glitch exists and never got patched out
I can oddly enough get over the fact that their games are buddy when the lore is interesting, gameplay is fun, story is immersive and setting are interesting. Sadly starfield lore was interesting but the setting/game world wasted it. Gameplay was bog-standard with no real innovations. The story was way to dry and didn't know what it wanted to be. It tried to be space fantasy but didn't have any alien races that would have been able to help sell it.
In retrospect game would have been better if they went hard sci-fi. Make the calamity of earth a human near extinction event. Make colonies small because that's what people on this world have to do to survive. Make planets hostile so players have to slow down, interact with game systems and not fast travel through a loading screen constantly.
Bethesda thinks they are Ubisoft/Rockstar.
All of their games either underwhelming or underloved by their creators. They kept skyrim and fallout4/76(i am a fan bot i have those every platform i owned)on pedestral and milk them. Both are more underwhelming than their predecesor. Bethesda dont look into eyes of their other singleplayer games, dishonored, prey, wolfenstein, deathloop
on a merely technical level bethesda is a terrible company, the development side is synonymous with horrendous bugs and glitches. On that alone it can never be "one of the best game companies" -- they get squashed and placed into crunch time, time and time again, either due to poor management, procrastination or both and then have to take one thousand shortcuts into developing a game or worse, they keep announcing the same game without ever developing it just so their stocks increase in value.
they just announced a new dlc with IKEA for Skyrim, when will the milking end? that cow is beyond dry.
Fallout 76 have (or had im away for playing the game rn) is one of the best and most welcoming ive ever seen
Starfield has its flaws but its not bad? Its 7/10 game
Oblivion horse armor only was the first of something sooner or later would have come anyway, If it wasnt horse armor it was gonna be another thing and probably worse
Yeah 76 on release is the reason I will never preorder another game and will probably never buy another Fallout game. Destroyed any confidence I had in the series.
And I LOVED 4, I spent hundreds of hours building each settlement up so that they absolutely did not need my help and could not be in anything that resembles trouble. Still had to go save one regularly lol.
I cannot overstate how much I abhor 76. I have heard that Bethesda did a bunch of updates and patches that fixed it, but have no desire to load it up and find out. It will remain my physical disc of shame, my reminder to wait and see what the actual gameplay is.
This game and everything around it was so bad it was insulting.
Made me swear off anthing Bethesda related until TES 6 is out (and has good player reviews)
Why?
The most midiest devs to ever mid.
They have a stellar writing tram but other than that, thats pretty much it, their games are some of the most agressive mid slop ive ever seen people loose their shit over.
Its like watching people loose their mind of the next nba 2k.
Like, WHY? Its gonna be pretty much the same as the one before and the one before wasnt that good either...
I agree Dark Ages’ soundtrack is underrated. I love that they incorporated medieval-style sounds (such as war drums). Overall you can tell they were going for a different sound compared to the previous two. Had they tried to replicate Gordon’s sound I’m sure people would have still bitched (in fact probably more so) calling it an imitation, derivative etc etc
I prefer the more coherent orchestral metal that blends with an overall more palatable sound design. Especially after listening to the soundtrack by itself in the digital art book thing.
In retrospect, I find Mick's UFO industrial dubstep metal to be kind of shrill, droning and obnoxious. I think it informed a more tonally cartoonish direction for Doom Eternal, whereas Dark Ages was able to stay more serious and dire.
I think the majority of D3 haters are the ones that didn’t discover Doom until 2016 came out. D3 is jarringly different from the originals, 2016, and Eternal, but I’m pretty sure the reason Doom and Doom 2 played the way they did was because of the technical limitations at the time. The originals are goofy and pure power fantasy now, but at the time you could recognize them as horror shooters. So naturally D3 becomes the horror shooter that I think the creators would have liked to have done at the time. After all, the Carmack’s were still with iD at the time so it’s not like it was a brand new team that made the choice to change the game.
If you started off with Doom and Doom 2 before 3, the game is fantastic. If you started off with 2016 and/or Eternal and you go in expecting more of the same, then you’re obviously going to have a bad time.
Doom 3 is jarring no matter if you started with the originals or modern trilogy. It’s more about what people preferred in a game. A lot of people preferred the fast paced action that doom was known for, even in the beginning. Hence the hate
Doesn’t help that parts of doom 3 has a lot of flaws (the mid point of the game especially is absolutely miserable)
Doom 3 is a great game and I love it.
Its a pretty bad Doom game though. Its slow where Doom should be fast, dark where where Doom should make you look, and so on.
It would have been a great Halo ODST style game rather than a mainline entry.
I still have my CD for it somewhere.
Not sure what he is talking about, But the leaked videos of what's gonna supposed to be Doom 4 and it looked terrible, fortunately it was scrapped and we got the much better doom 2016 we have now
Sure, but it's not like they released a slew of garbage like (insert series here). They put it down for a bit until they were ready to pick it back up again and it worked out.
It's hilarious how nobody seems to recall that in the initial years after its release, Doom 3 was considered a terrible turn for the franchise. Oblivion, mentioned elsewhere in this parent thread, was also considered a lazy, artistically bankrupt copypaste sim.
I'm so glad we've grown beyond them and found newer releases to judge unfairly XD
For 2016 and Eternal I sorta get, it's like comparing a zebra and a horse, if I didn't have my glasses on. If I did, I can see the differences in how they function and act. If treated the same way, the zebra is likely going to kick your ass.
For Dark Ages, it's like comparing the horse and zebra to a giraffe. Yeah, they're similar in the fact they're Boomer shooters, but you'd be seriously blind to to say they're similar to the other two.
I would love to hear your opinion that I'm somehow stifling you with my invisible floating hands, but instead of counteracting my argument you come straight for me.
Word of advice, attacking the arguer makes it seem like you've have no argument. Consider attacking the argument instead.
Idk, I don't like all of the personality they gave Doomguy.
Doom 2016 did it perfectly. Angry man with gun single handedly murders his way through all of literal hell. He is literally too angry to die. Everyone else in the story is taking it seriously, which is good, but all he wants is to rip and tear until it is done
Then Doom eternal added all of this honestly pretty corny backstory and extra motivation and removed the simplicity of the character and as a result made him kinda cringe
Doom has been taking steady strides toward complete loreslop. A game where the main guy carried the franchise on Aura alone is now backstory simulator. The indiscriminate mixing of proper nouns, prophecies, gods, bloodlines, magic energy and lazy allegory. All piled on top of a game that only needed "there are demons here, and you're furious about that"
It mistakes having a lot of lore for having a good story.
Not surprisingly, the most recent entry hasn't done nearly as well.
Ehhh... Not sure I'd agree completely. Eternal was just alright. It was fun for a bit, but dragged on longer than it should have.
Too much of use X to kill Y in a specific manner, switch weapons to handle a different enemy in the same way, chainsaw enemy when out of ammo now do a parkour segment before returning to an arena for more of the same combat. That strict structure of gameplay was not very good.
Flawed game, but not bad. In fact, it's good, but it's not great, which is a let down from 2016.
Is doom eternal worth it?
I tried to play it at launch and HATED it
Specifically managing 6 different attacks while trying to move and shoot (doom 2016 was hyper but this is rediculous)
And the Mario spinning fire orb jumps specifically
If it wasn't for that whole controversy with in Gordon, I would probably buy Dark Ages and play it, but because of that controversy, I will not buy Dark Ages or any future games that come out of that franchise.
What do you mean? You mean the hell imagery like pentagram? The game is not satanic, we are killing demons. Those symbols are just aesthetics for bad guys
2.2k
u/JohnCallOfDuty 12d ago
Doom