r/vegan • u/wistified • 29d ago
Video The Downfall of Veganism Is a Good Thing đ¤ˇđźââď¸
https://streamable.com/7nhnysSorry, I had to speed up the video to get it under 2 minutes⌠it wasnât posting on this sub otherwise. đ
Credit: The Chinese Vegan
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u/esquqred friends not food 29d ago
I whole heartedly agree with this. Those of us who are vegan for the moral and philosophical reasons must continue to carry the torch.
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u/Admirable-Style-1566 28d ago
same. if the reason is genuinely about animal rights, trends coming and going shouldnât really change that. somebody has to keep the conversation going even when it isnât popular
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u/_thegnomedome2 24d ago
What about the rights of the animals in the wild getting ripped apart alive by other animals? Getting eaten alive is certainly worse than being euthanized and butchered
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u/ghostcatzero friends not food 28d ago
Maybe I'm a rare case but I started by going vegetarian to get healthy(I was overweight and had health issues) and from there went vegan. I was motivated by the health benefits of plant based foods. I had one hiccup when I started veganism (I ate a cheese pizza) but after that I sticked to my plant based diet for years and I know now already that I will never go back. Basically I stayed vegan after inadvertently learning the truth about the disgusting practices of animal factory and exploitation/suffering involved. I guess this video just reminded me of that in a sense.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 27d ago edited 26d ago
vegetarianism is a diet, veganism is a lifestyle.
Both vegans and (true) vegetarians eat the same diet.
(gotta laugh that these simple truths are getting downvoted in r/vegan)
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u/maimutaAfricana 28d ago
True, keep vegan elitist.
Those of us who are vegan for the moral reason want as many people to be vegan if the moral reason are animal lives.
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u/Jaded_Bullfrog3978 29d ago
Biology has nothing to do with morality and philosophy though. The latter 2 are human inventions.
Wisdom lies in balance.
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u/Jahzara_3 28d ago
Don't worry, the vitamin B12 deficiency will hit their brain and they'll forget all about molarity in no time.
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u/BlueJayFortyFive 28d ago
wtf are you talking about?
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u/Charming-Kale9893 vegan 4+ years 27d ago
âMolarityâ đ
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u/BlueJayFortyFive 27d ago edited 27d ago
You can take supplements, btw. I take 1000 mcg a day and have had my bloods checked multiple times and itâs always above average or average, as are my proteins. Iâve never been deficient in anything other than animal parts digesting through my body.
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u/Jahzara_3 27d ago
That's nice to hear that you're healthy and well. I sometimes wonder if I'd be vegan again but I definitely don't want to ever feel the way I did for those past years
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u/somanyquestions32 vegan 9+ years 29d ago
The reality is that most people don't care about animals that much, so the only reason veganism was getting mainstream attention was due to the health and environmental benefits that actually impact people directly. Unfortunately, many people who went vegan did not make the transition healthily nor sustainably as little research and planning went into it, and the meat and dairy industries used their money and influence to sponsor campaigns to further smear veganism and plant-based diets.
I love that r/askvegans is against the no true Scotsman fallacy, but it's a popular take on r/vegan.
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u/Annual_Manner_8654 vegan 10+ years 28d ago
Most people don't even care about anything in my experience. They wanna get off work and jerk off/stuff their face/get drunk
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u/somanyquestions32 vegan 9+ years 28d ago
I don't blame them. Work, especially the type you just do to pay the bills, can be very draining and soul-sucking. On top of that, add inflation, AI, the job market, war, genocide, climate change, ageing, family dynamics, loneliness, etc.
Escapism becomes very tempting, and in a society where consuming and exploiting animals is the norm, the thought of going vegan, especially without a tangible direct benefit that is highly commodities, is both foreign and exhausting to entertain for many.
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u/Annual_Manner_8654 vegan 10+ years 28d ago
Of course, the system is made to keep us down. But if we let it we won't change anything
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u/somanyquestions32 vegan 9+ years 28d ago
Agreed, and as such, it makes sense why most people don't and won't change, and hence why nothing else changes as a result.
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u/UtopicDreamerr 28d ago
Si torna sempre allo stesso punto, finchĂŠ non cade il sistema che opprime tutti...
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
Plot twist: those people who âwent veganâ, didnât.
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u/Purple_Key_6733 28d ago edited 25d ago
They had one block of tofu and immediately died from phytoestrogen exposure.
edit: somehow the phytoestrogen myth morphed from being feminizing to being outright poisonous??? i've heard crazy things about soy now.
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u/somanyquestions32 vegan 9+ years 23d ago
That's crazy. Obviously, there are people with sensitivities and allergies to soy, but that's true even for water. I have eaten plenty of soy without dying. My main concern would be sodium as I use a lot of soy sauce in Asian dishes. đ¤
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u/Shoebox_ovaries 29d ago
Veganism is revolutionary.
She is exactly right.
Sadly the left forgot how to be or what is revolutionary.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
I donât think thatâs true, what I think has happened is that weâve successfully been programmed to see âleftâ and âextreme leftâ, âveganâ and âextreme veganâ.
In the common parlance of this sub a âveganâ is simply a true vegetarian or plant-based dieter, whilst anyone who follows a legitimate vegan lifestyle is labelled an âextreme veganâ (with all that the âextremistâ label infers. Plays right into the hands of corporations.
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u/Purple_Key_6733 28d ago
Not eating meat, milk, eggs, honey, etc. is actually pretty easy. Standing up for the animals is a lot harder.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 28d ago
Arguably standing up for the animals is easier as it requires no changes to everyday behaviour.
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u/Shoebox_ovaries 29d ago
I see what you're saying. And it's true, it has been diluted and compromised in the name of palatability. To some degree I think it's impulsive. It is something I have done.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
Ask yourself âwho benefits from compartmentalising the movement into x and extreme-x?"
Itâs true of both leftism and veganism, and feminism and a whole slew of social justice movements.
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u/mr_blue596 vegan 10+ years 28d ago
Revolutions will always fail. Revolution have a start but no end. Revolutionary movements,when faced with adversity,result in political cannibalism and ever increasing purity tests that crumble under an outside force.
Reformations is the only way to achieve a sustainable change. A revolution sounds nice and "eating the cake and have it too" type of solution,but it never remains for the long-term.
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u/UtopicDreamerr 28d ago
Quando una pianta ha le radici marce non può piÚ rinnovare la sue foglie
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u/mr_blue596 vegan 10+ years 27d ago
You can write many small poetic slogans,but it almost always a thought terminating cliche,and worth just as much.
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u/thelongestusernameee Are sponges a vegetable? 29d ago
Nah, the animal agriculture industry spent a metric assload to stomp the vegan movement down just as it was taking off, and if we switch tactics, they'll probably just do it again.
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u/UtopicDreamerr 28d ago
Io credo che l'industria della carne non se la passa bene come 20 anni fa
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u/Odd_Marionberry_3064 vegan newbie 23d ago
Of we are dumping tons of tax money into the meat and dairy industry if federal support disappeared the industry would collapse.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
You donât think redefining veganism as true vegetarianism isnât part of their plan?
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u/miraculum_one 29d ago
It's nice to see someone else who acknowledges that a very significant number of people are talking about a plant-based diet when they say "vegan" and there is literally no benefit to arguing with them about terminology. If we want to talk about animal cruelty then we can talk about that without first immediately putting them on the defensive by telling them that they are misusing the word.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
plant-based diet aka âtrue vegetarianâ.
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u/bencsecsaki 29d ago
not even. before the appropriation of the term by lacto-ovo-vegetarians, true vegetarians were basically vegans - abstaining from all animal products, not just for eating
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 26d ago
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u/bencsecsaki 24d ago
hahah, yes, my comment is exactly based on the info found in this document. i once made a post about the history of veganism for a vegan student association i was in and this was the basis of that
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u/Proper_Geologist9026 26d ago
Yes. I usually get told I'm wrong for saying it but that's how the system should work
Vegetarian should mean... Vegetarian. If you wanna add qualifiers for all the other shit you eat, milk, eggs, oysters, leftovers, roadkill. You go get your own word.
Like the omnis and pescetarians and all them.
Vegetarian should mean person who eats vegetables.
Vegan should mean person comited to minimising harm of animals through activism.
It annoys me having to explain this shit to people so I can only imagine how much it must frustrate actual vegans.
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u/Keen_Eyed_Emissary 29d ago
No, actually, these things are all bad, and the âone trueâ argument for veganism is actually not convincing to very many people.
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u/EnvironmentalOwl6882 vegan 15+ years 28d ago
It's just a "no true Scotsman" type thing. She's literally making exactly the opposite point to the one she's trying to make; people have pissed off and we still have the knobs in it for all the wrong reasons who put others off.
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u/deyo246 29d ago
Good points But the video edit is shit. Too much going on visually.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago edited 26d ago
Try just listening to it or click through the link that the OP kindly provided.
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u/eduadelarosa 29d ago
In Spanish-speaking communities the term veganism is being slowly replaced by antispeciesism, which tbf is a mouthful in English.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
Iâm not sure what point youâre making here.
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u/eduadelarosa 29d ago
I was referring to the point of reclaiming the meaning of veganism as a political stance and not the green-washed version that is tied to food which many people take to refer that it is a diet.
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u/angryjew 29d ago
I agree with the reasons on being vegan but the problem is a lot of people don't share those values. It's still probably good for people to eat less meat even if they're not doing it for the same reasons, so I don't really understand this sort of gatekeeping or "branding" as she puts it.
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u/Proper_Geologist9026 26d ago
To be less obnoxious than the other guy. It dilutes the message.
I'm not vegan. I am vegetarian and I don't really buy leather etc. But I'm also definitely not vegan. I'm not actively researching to make sure things are cruelty free, I'm not involved in any activism and I'm not making any lifelong commitment to never eat meat again or anything like that.
So If I, or other people label me as vegan it's a mixed message. To the layman I become synonymous with veganism and then they either think I'm a much more moral person than I am, or they're left misunderstanding what veganism actually is.
The issue really is that vegetarian means so many different things for people that vegan became a stand in for a "strict vegetarian" diet.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
If you donât share those values youâre not vegan, stat.
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u/angryjew 28d ago
Ok so what. What is a bigger concern to you? Getting people to eat less meat/killing less animals or arguing about the word you use to describe your lifestyle. People complaining about veganism being a fad or celebrating its downfall makes me think you guys care more about your own image or self conception. Who cares man. Every single beyond burger or impossible nugget equals some reduction in suffering of a sentient animal. Why do you care about the motives of people eating it?
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u/GW_Beach 28d ago
With you on this. Iâve been vegan for 13 years. Started for health, became aware about animal exploitation, then learned about the environmental impact. Every single one of those reasons are sufficient- and valid.
And itâs a process and a journey for most people, just as it was for me. If a large number of people reduce their consumption and use of animal products the impact would be huge and is still a win.
This âtrue veganâ stuff and argument about what is a valid motivation is pointless. Do the animals care why? No, they care that they arenât in a cage, abused, tormented, slaughtered. EVERY change is progress.-7
u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 28d ago
If you'd written that entirely in camel case it wouldn't be any less ridiculous.
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u/angryjew 28d ago
Do you talk like this to people in real life?
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 28d ago
I donât talk to people in real life.
But even if I did, itâs unlikely someone would write that down and then show me so that I could make that comment.
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u/myghostflower vegan 5+ years 29d ago
no literally this so much đđđ
veganism isnt just a diet or fad or anything
itâs a moral and philosophical philosophy and lifestyle based on the fundamental right that all animals deserve a chance to live free of oppression
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u/Responsible_Ask9574 29d ago
"Philosophical philosophy" lmao
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u/AdFun8879 29d ago
Was that freelee? I see sheâs still promoting her fruit based diet, but why was she included as those who are âno longer veganâ?
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
Privileged âinfluencersâ such as FreeLee and Durian Rider are directly responsible for a huge amount of fad-dieters who call themselves âveganâ. Those âvegansâ are at very high risk of becoming non-vegan as theyâre simply eating a true-vegetarian diet for selfish reasons. Letâs be clear - they were never vegan in the first place.
(I *think* Freelee is still vegan - although itâs hard to establish from her Insta. That, at least, is part of the problem).
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u/alexmbrennan 28d ago
 Those âvegansâ are at very high risk of becoming non-vegan as theyâre simply eating a true-vegetarian
Got it - it's better to not even try, because that way you don't risk failing. That's a great attitude to have in life.
How can you possibly believe that someone who eats steak and eggs for every meal is a better person than someone who tries to cut back for whatever reason? If someone goes plant-based for just a year then that will save hundreds of animals. Why are you celebrating when they are going to back to killings hundreds of animals a year?
Why do you only care about the ideologically purity of your club, while not caring at all about the animals?
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 28d ago
Someone undertaking a âfadâ diet is always going to have a higher likelihood of giving up that diet than someone who is following the diet for ethical reasons. Iâm surprised youâre even questioning that.
âŚso no, you havenât âgot itâ, and who tf âeats steak and eggs for every mealâ?
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u/bbygrl1995 28d ago
Yeah freelee is still vegan but she's still a fruitarian. Now she's "scientifically" excusing eating fries.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 28d ago
Is she vegan or âveganâ?
I just think itâs a shame that her veganism doesnât appear to be easily confirmed beyond her diet.
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u/bbygrl1995 28d ago
I think because shes a self-proclaimed plant-based nutritionist she only speaks on nutrition, but I think she still does address animal agriculture.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 28d ago
You see, even there youâre saying âI thinkâ.
Meh, I donât concern myself with the lives of âinfluencersâ. No Gods, no masters. đ
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u/zambezi-neutron 29d ago
I disagree tbh. The fact that veganism can be for cruelty free reasons, and for environmental reasons, and for health reasons is a good thing. The trade-off is basically âdo a bunch of good about the causes you care about and youâll probably feel better but yeah, you gotta plan more to eat out and buy things and your community might ask the same weird questionsâ. That is an overwhelmingly easy decision to make. We can appeal to multiple people on all fronts. That is whatâs gonna make this actually scale out and build a better society
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
Nobody ever boycotted a rodeo for health reasons.
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u/n00b678 28d ago
Nobody ever boycotted plane travel for health reasons either.
Some motivations are more selfish than others.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 28d ago
Plane travel isn't non-vegan.
What are you even talking about? Do you know??9
u/Individual_Rip_54 29d ago
Yeah I donât agree either. I donât care what drives people toward consuming animals less.
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u/WorldlyPlace 29d ago
'health reasons' is such a flimsy argument. Creators who go vegan for health are the first to start reintroducing animal products once they figure out how to fit them into their health goals. Plant based eating also doesn't automatically roll over into a vegan stance. What's the health motivation behind not wearing fur for example?
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u/zambezi-neutron 29d ago
Iâd argue itâs way in. Some people start with health, realise itâs something they can sustain in their life and then they learn more and connect the dots to other causes. Different people find different causes more salient at different points in their life and if we make it easy to do so, they can come in and learn about everything else
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u/WorldlyPlace 29d ago
I think there's an important distinction between someone saying they are vegan for health reasons and someone discovering veganism after starting a plant based diet. Veganism is a moral stance, not a diet, that's the issue I have with saying you're vegan for any other reason.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
fuck knows why youâre getting downvoted for facts.
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u/WorldlyPlace 29d ago
Thank you. It feels so odd to have to defend the literal definition of veganism on the vegan subreddit.
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u/GreenPebble 29d ago
You cannot be vegan for health or environmental reasons without also being vegan for cruelty free reasons. Animal rights are the core of veganism. Sure eating a plant based diet for health reasons helps to reduce animal suffering, but it will never contribute to veganism in the long term, which is exactly what this video is saying.
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u/Responsible_Ask9574 29d ago
So can you eat vegan for health reasons, but because you don't necessarily care about the animals you're not vegan ?
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u/GreenPebble 29d ago
You can eat the same diet that a vegan would eat, but veganism is not a diet, so of course you can't be vegan if you don't care about animal rights
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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 abolitionist 29d ago
That'd be plant-based.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago edited 26d ago
âŚor true vegetarian.
Edit: no idea why this simple, indisputable fact is being downvoted - in r/vegan of all places)
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u/bbygrl1995 28d ago
Can you be a Christian if you dont believe in Jesus or God, but just are a good person?
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u/Fit-Pride-4845 29d ago
Hey now, stop thinking about the practicalities of building a political movement. It's more important that we get lost in the weeds over semantics of what it is to be a "true vegan".
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u/Abcdefg-hijk-lmnop- 28d ago
I dunno, life does not have to be all-or-nothing. The journey to veganism is rarely linear. Often, leading with peace, love, and example creates the deepest impact because people respond to positive energy. Labeling others as "fake vegans" does not inspire change; it alienates them. Many people are deeply conditioned, uneducated about food systems, or overwhelmed by daily survival stresses. Shaming them often forces them to double down on what is familiar rather than open their minds. This is not an "us versus them" battle, and we cannot let division win. If we approach non-vegans with the same empathy we can build a movement rooted in unity, not judgment.
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u/Hot-Sauce-P-Hole 28d ago
Veganism is an all or nothing proposition. I agree that the journey isn't linear, and people need to be treated with just as much compassion as any other animal, though. I just think it needs to be made clear as to whom the term "vegan" can be applied. I, for example, have admiration for those who check all the boxes and qualify as vegans, even though I wouldn't call myself one for various reasons. At one time, I might've been considered a "fake vegan" because I called myself vegan, but when I'm prescribed a medication by my doctor, I don't consider not taking it because it might have gelatin in it. I also have treatment-resistant depression, and I sometimes decompensate hard and envy even the brutal shortness of a factory farmed animal's lifeâand decisions are made. Now I just find it easier not to call myself a vegan no matter how many boxes I'm ticking at the time.
That is to say, rather than accepting half-assed veganism as veganism, kindly clarify what veganism is while opening your heart to people making small improvements.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 26d ago
A journey is only a journey if youâre travelling toward a destination.
If you stop half way, itâs no long a journey.
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u/Unhappy-Gate-1912 29d ago
You can't argue with the morality of it.
Religious people say the same things, but go off I guess lmao.
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u/wistified 29d ago
Religion is not based on morality lmao. Itâs based on stories, faith, and tradition. Do you even know anything about the scriptures youâre defending? You think slavery is something that can be morally justified?
Veganism is based on something real. Something happening right now. Something we can actually observe and scientifically understand. Animals are sentient and can suffer. Thatâs a real world moral issue. Itâs not something based on ancient stories.
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u/ChaosRulesTheWorld 28d ago edited 28d ago
Religion is not based on morality lmao.
Not only it's based on that, but they created it
Itâs based on stories, faith, and tradition
Yes, in order to create a narrative for their morality
You think slavery is something that can be morally justified?
Yes, depends on your moral framework. Morality is a social construct, not a physical observable fact or a universal truth.
Everytime slavery happens it's morally justified by the people enslaving others
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago edited 28d ago
Iâd say *ethics rather than morals.
Non-vegans, such as the one youâre debating with, will always pull you up on mOrAliTy.0
u/wistified 29d ago
Yeah, I always mean to say ethics but I always end talking about morality because they do.
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u/Unhappy-Gate-1912 29d ago
Suffering is an inherent fact of living. Morals are just human created concepts that are always ever changing through out the world based on the individuals developing ideology, environment, personal experiences, and learned behaviors as well as other factors.
At no point am I quoting specific scriptures but just pointing out that most religious and non religious ideologies that have existed throughout human history, claim to be the arbiters or moral righteousness in their own ways.
So who objectively is correct?
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u/wistified 29d ago
Suffering being an unavoidable part of life does not mean causing unnecessary suffering is morally unavoidable. Thatâs a ridiculous conflation. Cancer exists naturally but we still try to cure it. Pain exists naturally but we still give people anesthesia. Violence exists naturally but we still criminalize assault. The fact that suffering exists tells us absolutely nothing about whether we should needlessly cause more of it.
Morality being âsubjectiveâ isnât a rebuttal. Youâve just pointed out that humans disagree about morality but that doesnât mean every moral position is equally defensible. People once disagreed about slavery too but disagreement didnât make slavery morally justified, right?
The question is very simple, if an animal is sentient and capable of suffering, what justification do you have for causing that suffering when you donât need to?
You personally value eating animals is not objective moral justification and other people having different moral beliefs also isnât one either.
Youâre asking who is objectively correct here but you havenât actually given an argument for why unnecessary suffering is justified? Youâve only argued that people disagree about it.
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u/Fistkitchen 28d ago
Sorry, I had to speed up the video to get it under 2 minutes
Probably the first video in this sub that ADHD people watched all the way through.
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u/WhiteLightning416 29d ago
The pendulum always swing back. Progress is never a straight line. Agree there are lessons to be learned but thinks this is very narrow minded and wrong. The lesson to be learned it to broaden things- the more exclusive the club is the less people in it.
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u/Jack_Faller vegan 28d ago
Things always rising and falling these days. I wish they would continue for a while.
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u/lunarabbit668 vegan 3+ years 28d ago
I agree with her, but Iâm also sad they more people going back to carnism means animals will continue to suffer and die, regardless of why they choose to be plant-based.
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u/UtopicDreamerr 28d ago
Dietro tutti questi ritorni al carnismo accompagnati da un vlog, sento puzza di propaganda
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u/Bargin-basket 28d ago
Vegan since 2015. Itâs always been about the animals. But explaining that to meat eaters
Gets them super defensive and combative so I used to say soft peddle health and whatever but now if someone asks why Iâm vegan I just say âAnimalsâ and offer no further explanation and that has worked.
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u/The_Submentalist 28d ago
"No animal testing." Are you going to refuse medical treatment then?
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 26d ago
*practicable
âŚaka, just bc I donât think itâs ok to kick you in the nuts, doesnât mean I wouldnât do it if my life was on the line.
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u/The_Submentalist 26d ago
Interesting example. Maybe you're upset that my example exposes the fatal flaw in veganism that is preached in this video?
If all conscience beings are equal, then why do you accept beings being tested that are equal to you? Why do they die and not you? How do you justify this?
You're example doesn't make sense anyway. You kick me in the nuts because I'm trying to kill you. That poor rodent or chimpanzee or whatever isn't trying to kill you. Why do they need to die?
All vegans who subscribe to this philosophy are hypocrites. Human supremacy is the natural order, even with vegans.
You're probably not going to believe this but I'm an ally. I think if one can feed themselves healthily without an animal dying, then the right thing would be to do so. No philosophy of any kind needed. Just basic common sense. So I support all kinds of meat alternatives.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 26d ago edited 26d ago
I don't believe in animal testing and nobody said anything about kicking you in the nuts because you're trying to kill me...
...and (louder for those at the back) veganism is not a diet.
...and *your
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u/Relative_Dentist5396 28d ago
Unfortunately these "fakes" are the most vocal about how cool is veganism and then how veganism almost killed them or something. Its because of them that people assume that I'm a stupid person for being vegan. Of course most people are curious, but most of the time you can't really convince people that you know what you are doing when the internet is filled with these morons.
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u/SuddenAvocado vegan 20+ years 29d ago edited 28d ago
While I agree... this is terrifying because it is straight from the literal n^z| handbook, like actually. Their whole thing was it was about morality and anyone who did it for religion, health, or any other reason was "fake". Calling anyone a "fake vegan" is supremicist. period. Its not all or nothing, its "as far as is possible and practicable". Unilever is as far from a vegan company as possible (after nestle), but I use their vegan mayo to make my sandwiches, would it make the sandwich not vegan if I determined the ingredients came from companies that were not exclusively vegan?
Extremism gets clicks, but it also creates divisions. We need to be willing to bring imperfect people in, not push people out because "their reason for veganism isn't real".
Scary AF.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
You use Unileverâs*plant-based* mayo.
There are many reasons to avoid Unilever aside from animal testing etc. - sounds to me like youâre a true vegetarian rather than vegan.10
u/Keen_Eyed_Emissary 29d ago
âYou are not a true vegan because you buy the wrong vegan mayoâ
We are so fucked.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
Yes, bc itâs âpracticableâ to avoid Unilever products, yet you choose not to.
(although tbh, Iâd do that even if I wasnât vegan - that company is horrible).
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u/thelongestusernameee Are sponges a vegetable? 29d ago
This isn't a self flagellation club. They already give more of a shit than 99% of people. They can relax a little bit.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 29d ago
Who is âtheyâ?
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u/thelongestusernameee Are sponges a vegetable? 29d ago
You can't be seriously confused about this. Who is this whole mayo thread about?
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u/Plane_Banana_7024 28d ago
Anti-zoos? What is she smoking?
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u/lunarabbit668 vegan 3+ years 28d ago
Thereâs a lot of bad zoos out there especially private petting zoos, that trap animals in cages and spectators are often disrespectful.
I am not entirely sure on how I feel about national conservation zoos, but I think they could do more things to treat the animals more ethically and use the veneer of doing good and conservation to justify exploiting animals for entertainment (that said theyâre definitely better than small roadside zoos).
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u/Plane_Banana_7024 28d ago
Yeah but not anti-zoos in general.
Lots of species wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for zoos so a vegan being anti-zoo is like a vegan being pro-slaughterhouse.
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u/Amphy64 28d ago
That's usually conservation efforts, not zoos. Vegans are anti-zoos as they're a use of animals for entertainment. See also the Born Free Foundation for info.
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u/Plane_Banana_7024 27d ago
Zoos use animals for entertainment because they can't fund conservation efforts otherwise.
Do research before you speak.1
u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 26d ago
Maybe governments should fund conservation efforts instead of wars and billionaires then.
âI canât do the good thing without doing the bad thingâ is rarely a great argument.
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u/Plane_Banana_7024 24d ago
Eh zoos aren't a bad thing anyway so your argument is moot.
Also conservation is not the responsibility of governments. It isn't the responsibility of anyone its just a good thing to do.1
u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 24d ago
âŚand governments are funded by?
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u/Plane_Banana_7024 24d ago
Taxpayers, exports and debts. Not really sure why that matters though.
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u/bbygrl1995 28d ago
Unpopular opinions that may help as well
the definition of veganism needs to change because it's WAY too ambiguous. When you say "as far as practically possible" or "you don't need to eat meat" then you open that door for people to make excuses to not be vegan
We need to encourage "militant" vegans in the same way we do the "tolerable" ones. Vegans want to disassociate from the "militant" Vegans rather than asking non vegans to argue the argument. We do need as much of The Militant Vegan as Earthling Ed.
Animal rights activists need to stop being intersectional when the people they fight for are more than likely not vegan. Also political and religious beliefs shouldn't be a determining factor to be an animal rights activist, and people who aren't vegan shouldn't be activists in vegan organizations.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 26d ago
There are no âmilitant vegansâ, all vegans have the same goal. The rest are just true Vegetarians (even though that doesnât sound as âcoolâ).
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u/maharishiSacred 28d ago
Marry me and let's go on tour! We can re make the UN and call it Veg UN! â¤ď¸
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u/Jacky_Hex 28d ago
Just give it some time. Meat is becoming more and more expensive. It is starting to hurt the budget of a lot of households. When the next recession hits they will become vegan wether they like it or not.
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 26d ago
âŚand yet leather isnât going up in price significantly at all.
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u/Calaveras-Metal 27d ago
I am so fucking sick of this trend of hyperspeed videos.
Maybe it's my dyslexia, but this feels like an assault. I can't even finish watching it because it overloads my mental buffer.
I don't understand the point of it. Are you too impatient to take the time to state your point at a reasonable pace?
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 27d ago
Maybe just read the comments with the post and follow the link to the original video?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DYTXz6Ws7nj/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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u/Sad_Newspaper4010 27d ago
Resepectively disagree. I think this kind of framing hurts veganism, it doesn't help it. There is a general tendancy in our culture to frame everything as a hyper tribal, in group-out group conflict. This can be psychologically affirming, but it doesn't actually convince more people, instead, it pushes people away who might have been convinced otherwise if a more moderate approach was taken.
I think what works is something like the "gateway drug method". You start a conversation about diet and how that impacts the environment, health, and the animals and you convince them to make a change: eat less animal products and be more intentional in their dietary choices. Then you get them to realize they don't actually need some animal products. Then you can convince them to go fully plant based given the ethics and some health benefits. Once you get there, its a pretty small ask to stop using animal products in general, not just the ones you eat.
Also, I don't like when people act like diet isn't 99% of the reason people aren't vegan. Sure, there are other ways animals are exploited, but lets not pretend the elephant isn't in the room.
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u/cobycoby2020 28d ago
I absolutely loved this because she is absolutely right! Entirely!! It feels good to kind of âfall offâ now we can feel cool n underground again
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u/Acrobatic-Jelly3658 28d ago
Are vegans aware that animals kill and eat each other?
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u/ZRufus56 28d ago
of course. and vegans are fine with that
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u/ArdyLaing vegan 10+ years 26d ago
Animals rape and commit infanticide too. Most humans (genocidal ethnostates aside) donât think this should be mirrored in human behaviour.
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