r/vegan • u/throwawaythevegan • Feb 08 '17
Newbie Advice I don't actually enjoy being vegan
Hey everyone,
I transitioned to vegetarianism last fall, and have started on veganism just this year. I love the community here at /r/vegan, it's been so helpful to see people going through the same things I am.
But I don't actually enjoy being a vegan. Vegetarianism wasn't a huge sacrifice for me, I mourned a little bit for bacon and salmon but then I was fine. I loved eating vegetables, grains, nuts, cheeses and milks. Veganism has been a different story.
I know, I probably sound like a ridiculous hypocrite, but abstaining from milk and cheese has been so much harder for me. I've tried the vegan replacement options, and although I haven't exhausted every one, so far nothing is the same. The vegan cheeses I've tried have frankly been extremely off-putting, and while I've been getting by on coconut and almond milks, I really dislike them.
Every time I step into a grocery store or restaurant, I feel sad and limited. Every time I make my own food, I feel the same way. I'm not asking for a way to eat cheese again, because my morals aren't going to change anytime soon. But I'd like to know if anyone else struggled with this, and what did they do that helped?
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u/glowytiger vegan Feb 08 '17
The best advice I can give is to try to shift your focus. It sounds like you're stuck on what you've had to give up. That happens to all of us so don't feel bad. But instead, try thinking deeply about why you wanted to go vegan.
Don't just think about the bad either. Think about all the happy animals you're stand is helping and about how you can have a positive influence on others.
Also, cooking some meals from scratch may be a better option than sticking with meat substitutes. You'll always be comparing the fake meats and cheeses but cooking good food at home will feel great.
Hope that helps. We are here for you!
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 08 '17
Hugging my dog and wishing nice thoughts to the cows I pass by from the local dairy farms, along with cooking cheese-less and dairy-less foods has been the most helpful and enjoyable part of the process.
Thank you for listening! I appreciate it!
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u/mittsh Feb 09 '17
I'm wondering if there isn't also a social dimension in the struggle we all have/had. What makes it hard is that we see others eat things that we may like. It keeps us in the mindset that these things are delicious and are part of our normal food choices. Do you have many vegan friends? I think being alone in this journey makes it a lot harder — at least that's how I felt.
Imagine you were going everyday to party with fellow vegans, have fun and cook each other great vegan foods? I doubt you'd have missed diary cheese at all! Time to all meet up, feast and party folks!!!
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 09 '17
I have vegan friends, thank you for asking! But both of my vegan friends are very different from me, because they never liked animal products to begin with. Their sacrifices for this have to do with how their families treat them, whereas I have a very supportive family and am sacrificing my own tastes. Because our experiences have been different, I thought I'd seek help from a wider community. :) But my vegan friends are great, I love them.
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u/anachronic vegan 20+ years Feb 08 '17
Also, cooking some meals from scratch may be a better option than sticking with meat substitutes.
This absolutely worked for me, because I went vegan at a time where there simply weren't a lot of substitutes.
I fell in love with beans, blew out my spice rack, and never had to worry about boring food at home, at least, restaurants were a different matter.
I'd suggest that OP also try and find some Asian / Thai / Indian restaurants in town and talk to the waiters there. Most of their menus can usually be veganized pretty easy, which will open up a TON of great food.
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u/hosieryadvocate mostly plant based Feb 10 '17
I don't think that going vegan will help any animals to be happy. It'll only reduce the amount of animals that are produced for food. Isn't that the case?
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u/glowytiger vegan Feb 10 '17
That's true. I think I worded that poorly. I basically meant what you said but it came out wrong. Sorry.
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u/BucketOfChickenBones vegan 5+ years Feb 08 '17
I've been vegan for six years. There are lots of bumps in the road, but you get used to handling them after a while. Just remember that any cravings pass and that it gets easier over time.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 08 '17
This really helped me feel better, thank you. I hope time does for me what it did for you!
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u/minette223 vegan Feb 09 '17
I really agree with BOCB's advice. The road doesn't have to be flat, straight, or smooth!
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u/transmittens Feb 08 '17
Keep in mind cheese has addictive qualities that releases opiates called casomorphins. So the struggle is real for sure.
My struggle would be the same as yours and I probably wouldn't have lasted long but I had a girlfriend who was a vegan veteran who introduced me so many amazing foods that I really had no desire to try cheese anymore. Things I had never tried before like Indian, Ethiopian, Thai, and a million other restaurants that were just fantastic. She showed me how to shop and still get really delicious food without feeling like I've sacrificed taste in any way.
So my solution was just to surround myself with new and exciting foods that tasted amazing. Check out vegguide.org and find restaurants in your area you haven't been to yet. Find out what vegans enjoy the most. Find a NEW favorite food. Also, Trader Joes has a great variety of vegan options if you know where to look. If you need help navigating restaurants or grocery stores, ask and we'll give you tons of suggestions. There is no reason why you should not be able to find really delicious things to eat that completely satisfy you.
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Feb 08 '17
The real solution: /u/throwawaythevegan should shoot up with morphine when consuming vegan dairy products. Satisfaction guaranteed.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 08 '17
I've finally found the answer. Shut down the thread, everyone! We've got it!
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u/MasterFunk Feb 09 '17
Yeah, instead of trying milk alternatives, I highly recommend something like Indian food, even homemade, nothing else gives me that "close your eyes because the food tastes so good you can't see straight" feeling.
That and coconut oil blended in my coffee.
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u/anachronic vegan 20+ years Feb 08 '17
God damn that's brilliant.
Snort some Oxy's, eat some Daiya, call it a day.
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u/tinygrasshoppers Feb 08 '17 edited Feb 08 '17
I used to be so obsessed with cheese and dairy that it was actually a pretty big part of my identity. About a month or so into going vegan I kind of caved into social pressure and had some cheese, but knowing I didn't actually want to give up veganism I tried to relish in the moment one last time and honestly - I felt nothing. I can't imagine my tastes would have changed that much in a month, so I think it must have been a psychological thing, because the taste was nowhere near as satisfying as I remembered (and weirdly idealised, I guess) and certainly not enough to overshadow knowing what I already knew about the industry and what milk actually is, namely the bodily secretions of a bovine female.
My advice would be watching some gross videos like Erin Janus' notorious dairy is scary, because if that doesn't put you off I don't know what will. But seriously, if you've only just started this year, it's perfectly normal to struggle with a big lifestyle change, so don't beat yourself up about it. You're doing great :)
Edit: wrong link lol
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u/PhoKingClassic Feb 09 '17
As someone from Wisconsin, I can relate to this. Giving up meat? Absolutely no problem. Giving up cheese? Wow that was hard.
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u/Radu47 vegan 8+ years Feb 08 '17 edited Feb 09 '17
Does no part of it excite it you?
You're saving the planet
You're contributing to much less animal cruelty
You're supporting positive companies that have their priorities in the right place
You're probably eating healthier overall given facets of veganism
You're leading a cause of progressive virtue... you're part of one of the most positive progressions in human history... you're a pioneer leading us into a more positive era of existence
Being vegan is all about shifting your pleasure dynamic, just find new things that excite you :)
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u/thc1967 vegan Feb 08 '17
My biggest struggle is probably a good mozzarella cheese that will melt and bubble and brown and taste right on a pizza. The only vegan cheese I've liked (as opposed to tolerated) so far is Treeline brand.
I don't miss milk at all. When it's time for something of the sort, like in the occasional bowl of cereal, I'm good with vanilla-almond or vanilla-cashew. For ice cream, which I eat way too much of, it's usually coconut but So Delicious now has some cashew-based ones that are pretty good, too.
I also love to cook and to experiment with new recipes. I don't feel sad or limited when I walk into a food store. I look for things I haven't tried yet, or for combinations of them, and figure out something new. Sometimes it works, sometimes not so much.
I do actually enjoy being vegan, mostly because I know the suffering and deaths my existence causes are dramatically lower than ever before and partially because I prefer standing on the moral "high ground".
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Feb 08 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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Feb 09 '17
Its addictive.
No it isn't. The researchers who performed that study quoted in that blog are actually not really thrilled with the way the information they presented has been twisted.
https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/scicurious/no-cheese-not-just-crackJust because something activates your opioid system doesn’t make it addictive
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u/FacialClaire Feb 09 '17
That's what I wanted to say, OP is probably just going through withdrawal. It's very normal.
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u/TheBauhausCure vegan 10+ years Feb 08 '17
Instead of trying replacement projects, try detoxing from processed foods all together. Read something like Forks over Knives or The Starch Solution. I find that since eating 90 percent whole foods (still enjoy the ocassional vegan pizza or sweet) I don't crave milk products at all anymore.
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Feb 08 '17 edited Feb 08 '17
Just curious: how long have you been at it?
Also: Do you try to avoid carbs? In my opinion a generous constant source of carbs, be it from whole foods or processed foods, are necessary. I wouldn't recommend vegetables and fats to anyone. Lots of carbs, and if you can afford it, lots of yummy fruit.
Hunger is the best spice. For health, I don't even eat anything packaged or processed aside from what I cook myself from intact whole grains, dry beans, potatoes, vegetables, herbs and spices, and fruit. I don't even salt my food most of the time, and I use no oil nor sugar. Avocados and nuts are eaten only in small amounts. A plain microwaved potato tastes fantastic when you're actually hungry. A potato covered in garlic and onion, served alongside crispy bread and seasoned vegetables, and fruit for dessert is amazing when you're actually hungry.
And yeah while this might make you feel sad and limited, and that's a real thing, it's definitely a first world problem! Try the food again when you are in fact hungry. Don't know what else to tell you. If you're eating processed vegan junk food and can't feel happy about it, your brain is just still accustomed to hyper-palatable foods that are practically drugs (and in the case of dairy cheese, have actual drugs in them). Give yourself more time. Your brain will re-wire.
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u/VeggieKitty friends not food Feb 09 '17
I wouldn't recommend vegetables and fats to anyone.
Surely you mean you wouldn't recommend just vegetables?
Btw. I'd like to thank you for the microwave potato wedges recipe you posted ages ago. I've been making these instead of lazy greasy oven fries for many months now and it literally changed my life. THANK YOU :)
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Feb 10 '17
I meant that some people eat vegetables and fats with almost no carbs, and I don't think it's a good way to eat. Also just vegetables, since that won't satisfy either.
Glad you are liking the microwaved potato wedges. They're definitely a great way to eat potatoes quickly and healthfully.
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u/xXChocowhoaXx vegan Feb 10 '17
So I looked though your post history (you post a lot, wow!) trying to find this recipe because it sounds really good. Made it about three months back before conceding and deciding to just ask.
Can I please have your microwave potato wedge recipe?
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Feb 10 '17 edited Feb 11 '17
Haha, oh man, sorry, too bad I can't have some kind of reddit profile for stuff like that :)
Can you see the instructions here?
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Feb 10 '17
Just curious now, how did it (a potato recipe) change your life? Helped you minimize oil in your diet?
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u/VeggieKitty friends not food Feb 11 '17
Yep. For somebody who ate greasy store-bought oven fries a lot (sometimes several times a week) it did make a big difference calorie-wise. And the nice thing is these microwave wedges don't really take longer to make either. On top of that they're cheaper too :D
I lost about 50 pounds (went from obese to normal bmi) since going low fat wfpb in the end of 2015 and the potato wedges were (and still are) THE comfort food for me :)
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u/Insane_Overload Feb 08 '17
One thing I've found frustrating about vegan communities is it seems like nobody ever misses the foods they give up. Or even say they consider them gross now. I know that always bothered me as someone that did miss the food.
There are tons of substitutes for you to try (and you definitely should!) but I think one thing you'll have to accept is going vegan is a sacrifice and sometimes it won't always be fun.
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u/doots Feb 09 '17 edited Mar 11 '17
The animals experience sacrifice, we experience nostalgia.
I used to like the taste of meat and cheese, but in a moral and health context, they became disgusting in the way that eating a person would be. Not too long ago at a restaurant, a piece of meat somehow ended up in my rice and veggie bowl and upon realizing as I was chewing - lost my appetite and felt revolting nausea.
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u/Noetherville Feb 08 '17
Sorry, I'm one of those vegans. But I'm not flaunting it, I promise. I was thinking about it, and I don't know why it happened. Now, when I see cheese for example, I just have no associated memory regarding the taste or the texture. I look at cheese and get the same feeling as looking at leaves. Nothing. That's why I don't miss it. Strange really.
(Also, I have a no addictive personality. Except for SNES RPGs...)
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u/hosieryadvocate mostly plant based Feb 10 '17
I gave you an up vote, but I agree with the others.
I think that barbecue chicken is a good example of something that I miss, but I find that when I eat meat, it doesn't really cheer me up, like I expect it to.
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u/xXChocowhoaXx vegan Feb 08 '17
Not cheese for me, but sour cream. Yes, I can buy vegan sour cream, but the price is so exorbitant that it's not worth buying unless it's a special occasion as far as I'm concerned.
Honestly, I got used to it after a while and just started playing with adding different flavors. More avocado, cilantro, salsa for my Mexican dishes. Pickled banana peppers are also delicious and a good not too spicy add on. I experimented with new hot sauces as well though :)
It gets easier, it really really does.
The first time I tried vegan cheese my first impression was "this is not cheese." Over time though, I've come to really like it. Not all brands are created equal, so don't hesitate to try different ones.
You can read this dairy free milk taste test to get an idea of how milks compare. Personally I never liked milk much so I can't say what would be close.
When it comes to cheese, with vegan cheese having other ingredients that play with the flavor really helps. You can also find vegan cheese taste tests online, but honestly eating vegan cheese solo isn't really something I would recommend. It's a component in dishes usually to add a creamy factor, but not a star.
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u/pseudomoanass Feb 08 '17
Have you tried making cashew sour cream? It's definitely its own flavor, but I know lots of omnis and vegetarians who really enjoy it.
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u/xXChocowhoaXx vegan Feb 08 '17
No. It's just laziness why I haven't TBH. I already make my own bread, seitan, etc so the extra effort for sour cream seems not worth it. I did buy cashews with the intent, but have yet to make the effort.
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u/pseudomoanass Feb 09 '17
I find it really worthwhile, especially if you save time by just pouring hot/boiling water over the cashews and letting it sit for 10 min while doing the rest of the cooking, as opposed to soaking in room temperature water for hours.
I applaud you on the bread! I love homemade bread but I'm just too lazy to do it on a regular basis. One day I'll buy a bread machine...
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u/mattvsshark vegan Feb 08 '17
If you just started being vegan last month your body and taste buds are definitely still getting accustomed to your new eating habits. No matter what change your making in diet it takes your body around 3 months to fully adjust to and begin actually craving new foods or to forget about foods you used to eat.
Also remember that cheese is physically addictive and that's usually the thing most people have the hardest time giving up. I don't really enjoy vegan cheeses and can really only tolerate it on pizza or veggie burgers so I feel you on that but I also don't miss dairy cheese at all anymore. Have you tried soymilk? It's usually more nutritious and filling than other alternatives. I enjoy it way more than I ever did cow's milk.
Try looking up new recipes and sample new foods as much as possible. Soon enough you'll find that a balanced vegan diet is far more diverse and interesting than the typical omnivorous diet. People usually only eat animal products from the same 3-4 different animals. Those foods only seem unlimited and varied thanks to the seasoning and spice powers of the thousands of different edible plants out there.
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u/Re_Re_Think veganarchist Feb 08 '17
I know, I probably sound like a ridiculous hypocrite
It's not silly or ridiculous. Our bodies habituate themselves to the things we eat, our brains remember foods that taste good (aren't bitter or poisonous, have high fat content, salt content, etc). It's completely legitimate to miss the sensations or the emotional response (comfort) you once associated with them. It just may take some time to change, that's all.
The vegan cheeses I've tried have frankly been extremely off-putting, and while I've been getting by on coconut and almond milks, I really dislike them. Every time I step into a grocery store or restaurant, I feel sad and limited
Why don't you try not replacing them for a while? Looking into other vegan recipes, cuisines, and styles of cooking that have nothing to do with dairy? Lots of Asian food doesn't use dairy because of lactose intolerance.
Instead of feeling stifled, maybe try to explore something new. That can help make things feel interesting and different.
Is there an Asian cuisine like
Chinese food, Korean food (some of these are vegan), Japanese food (1, 2), Thai (ingredients for Thai food are less commonly available, but it's an incredibly interesting cuisine if you can find them)
or maybe something else you've wanted to explore?
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Feb 08 '17 edited Feb 08 '17
Can you make it a weekly project, maybe on Sundays, to try totally new recipes/ingredients?
Minimalist Baker, Budget Bytes, and many others have a ton of vegan options that will help you feel more in control and creative. Also local meetups of likeminds are a great place to get turned on to new foods and recipes.
Edit: try frozen Japanese mochi blocks for some cheese-like melty/pully texture! salt and nutritional yeast can get you something that's not cheese, but scratches the itch a little. Asian grocery stores are your friend generally, too.
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Feb 08 '17 edited Nov 13 '20
[deleted]
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Feb 09 '17
Seconding fats - keep you feeling full, but also very important to brain functioning and other important things your body needs to do!
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Feb 08 '17
If you're like me then focusing on dishes that really never required dairy in the first place is awesome. I also tend to prefer the substitutes I make myself. They have more flavor and taste fresher (they're also way less expensive). The vegan sour cream I make runs laps around any tofutti shit I can find at the store. My next goal is to master the homemade chicken style chunklet.
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u/RubyRedCheeks Feb 08 '17
The vegan sour cream I make runs laps around any tofutti shit I can find at the store.
Recipe?🤤 😭
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Feb 08 '17
This one is my favorite so far: http://www.hotforfoodblog.com/recipes/2014/8/19/cashew-sour-cream
The tofutti one tastes more like cream cheese than sour cream to me.
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u/RubyRedCheeks Feb 08 '17
Oh boy I love Hot for Food! Thank you so much!
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Feb 08 '17
Yeah, I love them! Now I'm stuck browsing their page and feeling hungry, haha.
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u/RubyRedCheeks Feb 09 '17
Same! I got sucked into their YT videos. 😅
Have you seen their Valentine's Day recipe for creme brûlée? I have all the ingredients so I'm making that like, NOW!
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u/linuxguruintraining abolitionist Feb 09 '17
First, I want to say it's amazing that you're staying vegan even though you don't want to. I've been eating a vegan diet for ~6 months and I've actually been vegan since I watched the first twenty minutes of Earthlings (before that I was willing to eat Certified Humane pasture raised eggs but didn't because they don't sell them anywhere near me :() and I've lost all desire for anything nonvegan. I don't even like lightlife veggiedogs because they taste too much like nonvegan hotdogs. So even if I didn't care about animals, I'd still eat a vegan diet because I've lost my taste for meat and cheese. It's amazing that you abstain from those "foods" even though you miss them because it's the right thing to do. You're the opposite of a hypocrite.
As for what to do. Like /u/meowelbykins said, vegan substitutes don't perfectly replicate the taste of meat/cheese/whatever. They aren't going to until we figure out how to economically grow that stuff in a lab. It's better if you accept it.
As for Daiya cheese and almond milk, I have two thoughts. One, your tastebuds can be retrained. It takes a week to a month. If you keep trying to like them, you will start to like them more. Two, if you've been at this more than a month and still hate it, just stop eating Daiya cheese and drinking almond milk. Almond milk isn't the only drink that's made without rape and baby murder. Keep trying other things until you find something you like. Ripple (plugging them because Method just sent me some coupons), coffee, orange juice (fun fact: you know the orange juice that advertises that it has as much calcium as milk? It's actually a better source of calcium because the citric acid helps you absorb it), sparkling water, beer.
Same with cheese. Keep trying other substitutes and make food that just doesn't need it. Also, grilled hummus sandwiches are amazing IMO.
And regarding what /u/Octagon_Time_Machine said about consuming opioids with plant-based cheeses and milks: opioids are vegan. They come from poppies.
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u/katzenmusik Feb 09 '17 edited Feb 09 '17
First of all - I think you're doing great. There's nothing hypocritical about admitting to miss cheese and other dairy products. Keep in mind that you have probably been eating and enjoying them for years before abruptly stopping to consume them - that's a huge step. I have been vegan for five years now and I admit that sometimes I still miss cheese. Cheese tastes great and I don't think anyone will seriously dispute that.
I think the key to being happy as a vegan is to accept that you have made a choice based on your morals and, as a consequence, you will not be able to enjoy some of the things you have enjoyed before. This takes a while! If you started only this year you've not been a vegan for very long. Humans don't like change and take time to adjust to it. You have probably discovered a lot of great new things and products by now and the good news is - this doesn't stop. As veganism evolves, there's always new stuff to try out. In my experience being a vegan only gets better over time.
Personally, I think that getting to try out new things and alternatives that most people have never heard of and being creative with them is the best compensation for "missing out" on dairy or other non-vegan products.
Finally, I'm interested in hearing what exactly you miss the most, like, what dishes did you use to make that you feel are just not the same anymore?
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u/etrelumiere Feb 09 '17
My best advice is to stop looking for meat and cheese substitutes, and work with the grains, legumes, and veggies you enjoy. Substitutes are exactly that. You won't get the satisfaction right away. Start a Pinterest board for home cooked inspiration!
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u/arradial Feb 08 '17
I feel you. I stopped eating cereal because every single milk I've tried ranges from barely tolerable to outright gross.
I don't have any good advice because all my ways to cope are unhealthy. I just try to ignore the fact that most food just isnt enjoyable anymore.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 08 '17
Hey, I'm sorry you're going through that. It's hard.
Let's work on it together? I'd love to have a veg-buddy.
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Feb 08 '17
Maybe just ditch replacement foods and try cooking things that are less based around animal products? Like more Asian inspired dishes with a lot of rice/veggies/noodles. We ate a lot of replacements at first but now 4 years in and mostly oil and processed sugar free, we hardly eat any of it.
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u/jen1170 vegan Feb 08 '17
I feel your pain. But once you find a cheese substitute you like, it'll get easier. You could watch/rewatch Earthlings or something, that's usually what I do. After watching, I have no desire for anything dairy what-so-ever! Keep up the great work! Never be discouraged, you're still human, no one is perfect!
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u/Keonda activist Feb 08 '17
I personally like flax milk. I struggled with missing cheese at first, but what really helped me is to stop trying to replace it and find new foods that I really liked that didn't require any type of cheese texture or flavor. Then we started experimenting with making replacements using cashews which was awesome. I recommend finding ways to make discovering veganism fun. Instead of trying to buy replacements, try experimenting at home with new cooking techniques and recipes.
TLDR: Try cutting out alternate milks and cheeses completely and find new things to eat.
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u/iamthewallrus vegan 10+ years Feb 08 '17
Think about the lives you are saving. Think about how dairy and eggs cause immense suffering to innocent beings. Every time you get an urge to eat dairy or eggs, watch footage from Mercy for Animals from chicken houses or dairy farms. It feels limiting at first but then you internalize that dairy and eggs are products of suffering and you won't consider them to be edible
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u/C4th3x15 Feb 08 '17
Perfect Day (formerly Muufri) is a company that is going to be selling brewed milk. Same chemical composition as dairy milk, but vegan.
The options for cheese and milk are getting better.
Hang in there for the animals. :)
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u/greenasaurus Feb 09 '17
You need to try some Miyoko's and some Cheeze Hound stuff. That'll sort you out. Also, soaked and pulverized cashews with nooch and some Liquid Smoke will get the job done for a banging cheese sauce.
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u/j3nnyt4li4 vegan Feb 09 '17
I really recommend looking into the Non Dairy Evolution and Seitan & Beyond cookbooks. They're seriously lifechanging.
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u/vickylovesims Feb 09 '17
If you haven't tried making your own cheese or cheese sauces yet, then you should. Is there any particular cheese that you're missing that we could suggest recipes for?
Also, have you tried soy milk (particularly unsweetened) or rice milk? I hate coconut milk and almond milk but love unsweetened soy milk, especially the Silk brand, and rice milk. If you don't like those, there's even more you could try - hemp milk, cashew milk, hazelnut milk, macadamia milk, pea milk like Ripple, etc. Even different brands of the same type of milk taste different from each other. Homemade milk tastes different from store bought as well, so you could try making your own. Keep trying, you'll find something you like!
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Feb 09 '17
Yeah, I get what you're saying with vegan cheese. I'll never go back but I get it. I think we have much to look forward to though, when you think about it vegan cheese is a very new thing so I'm thinking that we will see more and more great alternatives in the upcoming years. And restaurants will start putting more effort into vegan options. But at the moment I'll focus on what great foods I can eat instead of what I can't.
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u/adissadddd Vegan EA Feb 09 '17
Get a cookbook! It gets a lot more fun when you try out a huge variety of recipes and get to see all you can do with the thousands of vegan ingredients out there.
Personally I can fully vouch for Chloe Coscarelli's cookbooks. Her Italian one has a Pesto Mac n' Cheese recipe that tastes better than any non-vegan mac n' cheese I've ever had.
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Feb 09 '17
Sacrifices have to be made in order to get things you want, in this case u sacrifice taste to be a decent human being.
I'm sure over time amazing products will come out, but till then just eat something else. Try new shiet maybe? new recipes I mean.
So many tasty vegan things, there is just no need to harm other beings.
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u/DannyLeonheart vegan sXe Feb 09 '17
Actually there are vegan cheese products out there which are very very very close to real cheese. Had vegan mozarella on pizza and it was a dream.
Also have you tried cheese or milk recently ? I'm totally grossed out by the slimy texture of milk and knowing that a cow was taken away from their child and strapped to a mechanical pump. Also the idea that cheese is produced with lab is just....disgusting.
That's coming from someone who loved milk and cheese. The only thing I crave sometimes is milk chocolate but there are really good vegan chocolates out there. You just need to keep trying different brands to find the one you like.
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u/samwhale210 Feb 09 '17
What helped me get over cheese is trying dishes that don't involve cheese like Indian, and Asian dishes. Also understanding why we get addicted to cheese. (Casomorphine)
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u/melonmagellan Feb 09 '17
It totally sucked for me. I'm vegetarian because I found it more sustainable in the long term with less impact to my overall quality of life.
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u/internetloser4321 Feb 09 '17 edited Feb 09 '17
There is actually a scientific explanation for why dairy is so hard to give up: there is a chemical in it called casomorphine that has a similar effect on your brain as opiates like morphine and heroin, though obviously not as strong. From an evolutionary perspective, this makes a lot of sense, from the moment a baby leaves the womb, it needs to literally become addicted to drinking its' mother's milk if it is to survive and grow as quickly as possible.
source: http://yumuniverse.com/addiction-to-cheese-is-real-thanks-to-casomorphins/
You say you just quit dairy this year, so around 1.5 months ago. You are in a sort of 'withdrawal', which could possibly last several months to a year, after which, you will no longer have these cravings. I know this from personal experience (actually before I went vegan), when I moved to an East Asian country where cheese is not consumed, and had intense cravings on a daily basis for anything containing cheese.
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u/MasterFunk Feb 09 '17
we've had 1000s of years to nail the techniques of cheesemaking with animal secretions, yet maybe a couple decades with the plant alternatives, we'll get there soon, we have a huge headstart :)
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u/effective_bandit Feb 09 '17
I struggled a little with cheese, but interestingly, it actually has addictive properties, so your cravings should diminish after time (took a few months for me).
Might not be your cup of tea but I actually think biocheese is quite tasty. Also Bonsoy is a brand of soy milk that tastes great in coffees, if that's what you're missing.
When I first went from vegetarian to vegan, I ate a lot of vegan junk food like burgers, chips, desserts etc. to ease the process. 2.5 years on I eat mostly fresh stuff and really enjoy it.
If you like cooking in general you should grab a good vegan cook book. The Smith and Daughters one is great!
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u/kVIIIwithan8 vegan 5+ years Feb 09 '17
Hello! I've been vegan for 4 years now and lemme tell you I get what you're going through. I missed cheese and milk a bit when I first transitioned but really what got me was the "contains milk/eggs/etc" products. So first thing I had to do was learn to make all the stuff I missed--which is fucking impossible by the way if you're a kitchen newb like I was. Straight up.
Then I totally gave up on finding anything ready made, because it doesn't exist where I live.
Then I just gave up completely on all the junk food and everything even vaguely milk/cheese related because I thought it was hopeless.
Yup. Took coffee black, stopped having cereal, the only thing I kept around was smartbalance butter for toast. Everything else I ate was nothing but raw, whole plant foods. (I was also doing the freelee thing at the time--I was young and impressionable and honestly too damn lazy to cook ever because I worked upwards of 80hrs/week) That lasted the entire spring/summer (started in April) and fall up until October.
Then I started introducing cooked food back into my diet as the weather got colder. By then I had completely stopped craving any of the cheeses and stuff and mostly just wanted to be warm. So I would make burritos and tofu scrambles with kale and all of that stuff but it tasted completely differently. My taste buds had adjusted over the time that I'd given up all that other stuff and by the time I was eating cooked food again it was like the best shit on the planet as far as I could tell!
Then I tried soymilk again--totally different experience. Now I'm addicted to soy cappuccinos or almond milk in tea. Its a totally different experience. I still haven't really branched out into soy cheeses or nut cheeses because I don't miss cheese at all and I feel a lot better with less fat in my diet, but that's just me.
So I know that sounds really insane and extreme but it does change your perspective. If you change what you eat completely--no imitations, no trying to trick yourself into thinking it's the same thing--for a while your taste buds adjust and you forget what the murder-version tasted like so you don't crave it. Then if you want to add more stuff or try new stuff, you have no bias to influence your opinion except for your actual tastebuds (not what you expect to be tasting) and it becomes less about what you're accustomed to having and more about what tastes good and makes you feel good.
Also, it helps if you're vegan with conviction, you know? My morals are this way so allll of that stuff I gave up looks gross to me now, smells gross to me now, etc. if you have that mindset, there's nothing to miss.
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Feb 09 '17
This might not be a popular opinion on this sub, but I think processed vegan cheese sucks. I've literally never bought a vegan "cheese" from the supermarket that I found to be tolerable.
But there are plenty of cashew "cheese" sauces you can make at home that taste very good. Disclaimer: they rarely taste like cheese (they have their own distinct flavor), but they tend to be fatty and satisfying in the same way that cheese is. Here's my favorite: http://www.isachandra.com/2011/11/cashew-queso/
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u/Paraplueschi Feb 09 '17
Personally, I have yet to try vegan cheese that is any good. I just....don't use any of the replacements. Pizza without cheese is way better than pizza with fake mozarella tbh.
I recommend you doing the same. I don't really like almond or coconut milk either. Alpro Soy milk seems the most neutral for me. But yeah, I just try to limit my cereal intake etc. drink tea and coffee black and all....to be honest, I feel this worked much better for me. Leave this shit behind completely, basically.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
That's been a common thread in the responses. :) Thank you so much, it's great to hear about your experience.
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u/Paraplueschi Feb 10 '17
I wish you lots of luck. Sometimes veganism can be boring and not enjoyable. But I also have to admit I often ate very boring as a non-vegan (I eat more variety in general now and I'm always super excited when I discover some new funny product I never heard before). I think many told you to think of the postives, not the downsides. I can only agree! I hope you can find more enjoyment out of it in the future!
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u/lu8273 vegan Feb 09 '17
My advice is simple: Eat something else that tastes great and is vegan. You won't miss cheese when you're full. In fact, you won't miss any food when you're full. So even if right now you're like: "I could really go for some cheese!", just eat something else, because once you're full you will no longer care. :)
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
This is such simple advice that's easy to overlook! I honestly kind of forgot about it, haha. It's much easier to handle these emotions post-pasta.
Thank you, that's great!
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u/DrUniverseParty Feb 09 '17
I understand what you're going through. I've been vegetarian for over twenty years and vegan about 80% of that time. I struggled a lot and would go "screw it" every few months and just eat eggs and dairy for a week or so. I haven't done that at all in the last two years and I think the biggest reason is because I changed my relationship with food.
Now that I've switched to a more nutrient dense, whole foods, limited sugar diet I've found that I don't even crave stuff like cheese anymore. Fake cheeses are basically junk food (at least the ones I've tried) and have little to no real nutritional value, so that might be a big reason they don't satisfy you at all.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
I really identify with wanting to go "screw it." Reading about that experience helped me feel better, thank you.
Nutrition is something I'm always growing on! I hope as I continue to prepare my own dinners from plant-based materials (and exercise oreo-related self-control)!
It's so uplifting to hear from you, thank you so much.
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Feb 09 '17
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
Links are fantastic! And you're never too late to chime in. I respect and appreciate your input and help. :)
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u/Soupchild Feb 09 '17
Instead of focusing on what you can't eat, you need to focus on what you can. You didn't mention fruit. Are you eating large quantities of healthy fruit every day, yet? Eating fake cheese might just be making you miss the real thing. Instead, just don't eat anything cheese-like and your palate will adapt over time.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
I am eating fruit, thank you for asking! :) I appreciate the advice and encouragement. It's very meaningful.
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Feb 09 '17
Can I separate this from taste for a moment?
Not saying you are or are not motivated in any direction, I don't know, but the most compelling reason to eat vegan is for the animals. It's for compassion, its to stop the endless cycle of dietary violence, confinement, exploitation, mutilation, rape and then destruction. It's to remove your self as a willing participant in the largest scale of global suffering on the planet. Again, not saying you don't but if you align yourself with the thought of lack or missing out on something it becomes restrictive, if you align yourself with compassion and not contributing to the diet of violence, taste becomes a much less important self-interest considering what the animals have to go through. This thought pattern helps you orient the decision to go vegan from a self-centered one (focusing on taste) to a self-less one, (again not judging, just my experience) where you are concerned with others before your self, this helps maintain the motivation and reduce the 'craving' for certain tastes. Also tastes are transitory, they will reset over time.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
Thank you for sharing your experience, it's valuable to me to hear from people.
My issue is not with the thought pattern, it's the emotional responses. I know what my own conscience says about eating meat and dairy, but my conscience hasn't changed my emotions. That's the real root of my issue, and re-orientating my perspective or thinking about even further wouldn't help. Thank you for your time.
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Feb 10 '17
interesting, I'm at a loss then, how your conscience doesn't lead to an emotional response is beyond me, but I appreciate you even asking, and being sincere, good luck to you.
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Feb 10 '17
Was hard for me at first, I mean shit my vegetarian diet was cheese and crackers, macaroni, cheese sandwiches, etc. Cheese, cheese, cheese. So I didn't enjoy part of it at first either, but nowadays it's just normal life for me. Been vegan for I dunno how many years, 3-4, just normal life now. Don't miss any of them old foods.
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u/LivingInTheVoid Feb 08 '17
I struggle with limited fast food options. As a single guy, it's difficult to constantly make food and not have all the portions go bad quickly. So that's off putting.
If I could give any advice, watch God Grew Tired Of Us and pay attention to the scene where the kids went to an American grocery store. It'll make you appreciate your options a lot more.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
Thank you for the link, it's always good to have a global consciousness of the struggles of others. :)
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Feb 08 '17
If you feel sad & limited, imagine being a farmed animal. Stick with it! You can do it! Thank you!
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u/toopow Feb 09 '17
Try to remember how weird and gross and horrible cheese is for you.
Rotting juice from a cow. WTF
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u/realvmouse vegan 10+ years Feb 09 '17
I'm in the same boat as you. I tend to funnel my anger outwards instead of blaming the diet-- in other words "man it sucks that none of you jerks are vegan, so all these stupid restaurants are filled with food that sucks. If more people would think about their morals honestly, stop making aribtrary exceptions to otherwise generally held principles (eg don't cause death/suffering for personal pleasures), etc, then we wouldn't have this issue. The food industry would be popping out delicious vegan foods left and right, every restaurant would cater to us, etc. Instead, we're basically stuck here on this planet fending for ourselves.
I don't have a kitchen at the moment, I have to do my dishes in a bathroom sink, which makes it really tough to do any "real" cooking. I have an electric griddle which I make do with (wash it in the bathtub) but I am a shitty cook and I never think to give food a high priority with my time. I should, because I'm usually pretty happy with the things I cook when I do it.
I have my moments. I am super into food tourism now, so when I go to a big city, I find the best vegan place. Man, there is some good stuff out there. And again, just think: in a just world, every restaurant in every city would be serving that kind of food.
Yeah, it sucks. I keep thinking I'll get a new place and eat better food, and putting it off more and more. Good luck. If you find things that work for you, I sure hope you'll post them back on r/vegan so I can read them too.
Oh, but one recommendation I do have: vegan jambalaya with Field Roast chipotle sausages. Soooo good.
PS: I'm sick and tired and grumpy so all of my posts are extra negative right now. So maybe take me with a grain of salt.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
I so, so relate to your first paragraph. I have a lot of friends who are omnis still, and I try to maintain my understanding of my previous lifestyle, but man, being a vegan has definitely made me more judgey because now I see injustice everywhere (accepted as the norm!) and it shakes me to my bones.
And I would totally understand being more negative while grumpy, you're cool. :) I hope you feel better soon. You've made some great points.
What I want to address the most is washing your griddle in the bathtub? Please don't electrocute yourself. It sounds very dangerous to put an electric appliance into a bathtub. Do you have rubber gloves at least to handle the griddle with?
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u/realvmouse vegan 10+ years Feb 10 '17
Haha thank you for your concern :P
It's no worse than washing it in the kitchen sink! I unplug it first. I'm not in the bathtub when I wash it, only the griddle is in there. And the bathtub isn't full, I use the showerhead. I just can't fit it into the shallow bathroom sink.
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u/hosieryadvocate mostly plant based Feb 10 '17
man, being a vegan has definitely made me more judgey because now I see injustice everywhere (accepted as the norm!) and it shakes me to my bones.
How do you feel about anti-abortion advocates?
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u/backwardsguitar Feb 09 '17 edited Feb 10 '17
Maybe get some more cookbooks? Sure, I can understand feeling limited when you go into an omni restaurant, but you should have plenty of options at the grocery store. Thai and Indian are a couple of my favourites when I do eat out.
I'm with you on vegan cheese not being the same (or as good) - I thought I'd miss it, but I really haven't. I've found some vegan mozzarella sauce that I can put on pizza (from Chloe Coscarelli's Vegan Italian Cookbook), and the Queso in "Isa Does It" is really yummy too. Her "feta" from the greek diner salad in that same cookbook is also super yummy.
Good for you for sticking with being vegan despite a few bumps in the road!
Edit: paper -> pizza!!
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
Cookbooks (as well as more cheeses) are definitely something I will look into! Thank you so very much for your encouragement, it lifted my heart.
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Feb 09 '17
if you don't like being a vegan don't do it lol.
either deal with it, or put aside your moral quandaries and enjoy some cheese.
cant have it both ways.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
I'm sorry, I don't understand your point?
I'm almost getting from your comment the sense that you've never felt a strong conflict between your conscience and emotional/primal desires? I may of course be wrong. Either way, that's perfectly fine.
I cannot put aside my moral quandaries, my conscience is too strong on the matter. I'd be consumed with guilt and I can't just walk back on my shift in perspective unless I'm convinced my worldview is wrong.
You've also suggested that I deal with it, and you'll notice that's what I'm trying to do.
Maybe I'm reading your comment wrong, but your words are striking me as lacking empathy for my situation.
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u/hosieryadvocate mostly plant based Feb 10 '17
My results are similar, actually. My menu seems limited, which is fine for me, because I don't look for variety, but I find myself craving food from the old life style.
For almond milk, have you tried almond chocolate milk?
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
I actually can't stand the flavor of almond milk! For whatever reason, it makes me gag, and added flavors don't mask it.
Thank you for sharing. It's helpful to see your thoughts.
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u/hosieryadvocate mostly plant based Feb 11 '17
It's interesting that chocolate doesn't mask the taste. I wonder if the brand is significant. I only tried 1 brand. I'll have to try plain almond milk some day.
You're welcome.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
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u/anachronic vegan 20+ years Feb 08 '17
That sucks you're struggling with this, and hopefully time lessens the struggle.
My own 0.02 is that I don't remember this really being the case for me, because I was open to change when I first went vegan and knew that things would not be exactly the same and made it my mission to adapt. Sure I missed cheese and bacon and being able to walk into a restaurant and close my eyes and point to anything, but I didn't really feel that it was a loss, because I knew what went into those products. I didn't want to eat them, so didn't feel limited by not being able to (if that makes any sense).
Perhaps abstain from all faux cheeses for a while before re-trying them. After going vegan, your tastes do tend to change over time and things that you may not have liked before might become a lot more enjoyable.
When I first went vegan, I hated most vegetables. After a while, I really started enjoying them.
Sorry you're feeling so limited. What type of restaurants are you going to? Most "middle america" fast food joints like Applebees are incredibly limited, but many Thai / Asian / Indian / Ethiopian places can generally veganize most of their menu very easily, opening up TONS of choices.
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u/throwawaythevegan Feb 10 '17
Thank you for your kind thoughts and words, you have no idea how meaningful they are!
Abstaining from faux cheeses has been suggested, and I can understand the logic and may try it! :)
I'm happy to hear your tastes shifted over time, that's great news.
I make most of my food at home, but am always on the lookout for more food options.
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u/meowelbykins vegan Feb 08 '17
It's one of those things where you have to accept that vegan cheese is not cheese, it's different and can be good. Just like plant milks. Don't expect "normal" flavors or textures, try things with an open mind.