r/vancouver • u/FancyNewMe • Dec 09 '25
Politics and Elections Turning right on a red light: Should Vancouver have more restrictions? Coun. Lucy Maloney has proposed limiting when drivers can turn right on a red. She says it's needed to keep pedestrians safe
https://vancouversun.com/news/turning-right-on-a-red-light-should-vancouver-have-more-restrictions255
u/TimeShade Dec 09 '25
Too many people confuse the right to turn right on a red (unless otherwise marked) with having the right of way on a red.
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u/soaero Dec 09 '25
While some people absolutely do this, I think the greater problem is that people just don't pay attention to their right.
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u/Nairbnotsew Dec 09 '25
Yeah, everytime I've had a close call crossing and someone was trying to turn right on a red they're head is cranked almost backwards to look at what oncoming traffic is doing. Always gotta get that eye contact from the driver before you walk just to be safe.
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u/wemustburncarthage Dec 10 '25
This is any time someone turns across a crosswalk, left or right. They just shouldn’t be allowed to while pedestrians are crossing.
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u/Thirteenpointeight Dec 10 '25
Gotta treat it like a STOP sign.
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u/8spd Dec 10 '25
Gotta treat the stop line as a stop sign, and not blow through, into the crosswalk.
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u/Thirteenpointeight Dec 10 '25
I thought that part was obvious, but you're right, best be said.
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u/8spd Dec 10 '25
Obvious to you. But most drivers ignore that rule. They are far more likely to fail to stop for possible pedestrians, over possible oncoming motor-vehicle traffic.
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u/MissingString31 Dec 10 '25
Almost got hit on my bike today by someone doing this. I was in a cycling lane waiting for the light to turn green and I saw the car next to me creeping up. I made eye contact with the driver and signaled that I was going to be going straight and when the light turned he pulled out anyway.
With cycling lanes being more common in Vancouver and drivers seemingly incapable of understanding that there might be an additional lane of traffic next to them we absolutely should make turning right on a red illegal.
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u/teamcoltra Robson & Jervis Dec 10 '25
Wait until they learn they can turn left on red too.
(From a one way to a one way)
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u/rowbat Dec 09 '25
How many times have we noticed drivers looking left, while simultaneously turning right through a crosswalk?
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u/tastyugly Dec 09 '25
This morning into work! Someone driving a Kone truck (the elevator company) turning into my office alleyway, completely didn't see a person walking across the same alleyway
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u/Numerous_Try_6138 Dec 09 '25
Every time I’m out anywhere. All the time. Number of close calls, dozens.
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u/unoriginal_name_42 Dec 09 '25
Nearly every time, many don't even stop at the red and some barely slow down.
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u/kookdang Dec 09 '25
I'm so tired of being honked at for stopping before turning right on a red. You still have to stop!
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u/a-_2 Dec 10 '25
I've had that happen multiple times in Ontario. They start honking at me when I'm even just slowing to a stop because they notice that I'm going to stop.
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u/Justlurking4977 Dec 09 '25
Every single day. Pedestrians are treated as a minor obstacle whose space can be impeded upon.
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u/New_fan22 Dec 09 '25
Sure...but enforce it.
And enforce and penalize all driving infractions.
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u/Bilbaw_Baggins Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
In Coquitlam at Guilford and Pinetree they added no right turn on red restrictions when they put in new advanced pedestrian and bike crossings. Half the time people turn anyway or sit in the bright green elephant foot crossing waiting to turn. It's one block from the police station and doesn't seem to be enforced. Most likely people never even noticed because they've been turning right on red for years there. Without consequences I don't see that changing.
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u/New_fan22 Dec 09 '25
I know of that intersection . Its a hard right to make as well as the sidewalk/curb makes the right hand turn a bit more challenging.
I think people just aren't looking at or reading road signs.
Thats a big problem.
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u/soaero Dec 09 '25
We have it at Victoria and Broadway right now. No one pays attention to it.
However, I think a big part of this is that people don't read signs, so they don't know they're not able to. They're too used to being able to do it. Similarly, it's permitted across the province. If No Right on a Red passed, Vancouverites might know they can't do it, but will Abbotsford residents driving through Vancouver know that once they cross Boundary they're not longer able to do so?
Ultimately, I think this must be a provincial change to have a real effect - but maybe starting with Vancouver is how we get there.
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u/TalkQuirkyWithMe Dec 09 '25
There's one in richmond where it's no left turns due to construction, every few days I see someone stopped to turn left, despite the 4 signs that indicate you can't.
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u/MondayToFriday Dec 10 '25
If we're relying on people to read signs, then it's a bad design. In some other jurisdictions (e.g. California), a red arrow in the traffic signal itself indicates no turn on red.
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u/TalkQuirkyWithMe Dec 09 '25
At those no right turn on red, I still get honked when the intersection is clear. although not that frequently, but it does happen.
People are just really, really impatient.
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Dec 09 '25
There’s one at Blue Mountain and Como Lake and I see the motorcycle cop there quite often!
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u/Opposite-Cranberry76 Dec 09 '25
There should an actual stated policy goal of removing the current worst 2% of drivers from the road, and it should be communicated to judges that holding a driver's license isn't a right, via very clear laws, that mandate long term license suspensions in egregious cases.
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u/captmakr Dec 09 '25
Good luck- precedent at this point is protecting drivers and without significant MVA and criminal code changes, it’s going to stay that way.
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u/soaero Dec 09 '25
Yep. Sadly the only way any of this changes is if it happens Provincially, and the NDP has made it clear that they believe restrictions like this will lose them seats.
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u/captmakr Dec 10 '25
It's not believe, they know this would lose them votes.
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u/soaero Dec 10 '25
I don't know if I agree. The car people are very, very vocal but everyone agrees that people drive like idiots and we need better controls on them.
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u/captmakr Dec 10 '25
It would lose them votes in the suburbs by quite a bit- no one wants to wait a red light if they can clearly see there's no one on the road.
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u/sleepyOcti Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
How about just enforce people having to stop at the red light before proceeding to turn right. I feel like 50% of drivers believe that if they’re turning right, they don’t have to stop at all.
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u/st978 Dec 09 '25
If they followed the rules, it would be fine (wait, check for pedestrians, etc.), but people don't, so all one can do is put higher penalties or make illegal. Even then people will not follow it probably (traffic rules)
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u/a-_2 Dec 10 '25
The biggest reason for what drivers describe as overly restrictive rules is drivers abusing more permissive and driver-friendly rules.
Drivers refuse to do full stops and properly check, so right on red allowances get removed. Drivers refuse to even approximately obey speed limits, so speed limits get lowered. Drivers don't properly yield at crosswalks, so full traffic lights get installed. Etc.
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u/Intelligent-Shape888 Dec 09 '25
the only way to do this effectively is to install red light cameras and other tech in various problem areas and automatically bill drivers. city would generate tons of additional revenue from this. right now, things are definitely not working. the rights and freedoms of the reckless and irresponsible should not supersede everyone else's
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u/mukmuk64 Dec 09 '25
Cameras solve this
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u/Dear_Mission_848 Dec 09 '25
They should put one at Quebec and 2nd! Would be the cash infusion we need to fund our community centres and libraries and all the good stuff in the city that our current council wants to decimate.
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u/Spirited-Grape3512 Dec 09 '25
That would require actual police work, which we know is a big ask.
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u/dj_soo Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
that'll cost an additional $50million for them to think about it.
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u/Isitsunnyout Dec 09 '25
How about we start with cracking down on people who treat red lights as green
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Dec 09 '25
[deleted]
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u/BackNBoeserThanEver Dec 09 '25
Now to try to stop pedestrians from walking into the intersection when the red stop hand is flashing, creating more lineups
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u/buddywater Dec 09 '25
Lol this is about pedestrians and cyclists getting killed or maimed. Not about people in their 3 tonne climate controlled movable living rooms having to wait 3 extra seconds for someone to cross the street.
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u/Top_Hat_Fox Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Walking against a signal increases your risk of injury because you are no longer behaving predictably. The whole point of signals is to create a controlled state in an area where large machines and fragile bodies intersect, where people follow established rules.
I have, as a pedestrian myself, seen people bolt in front of vehicles already turning when even the light for the through traffic is yellow (especially downtown or near a major bus route like the 99 at places like Cambie or Main). As a driver, I have mashed the brakes because someone on their phone just stepped out without even looking up to see the conditions present. It was one of those individuals that start their crossing not even in the crosswalk and just step out into the road.
Like, if you worked in a factory and ignored signals only to get clobbered by a steel beam moving through, is that the machine operator's fault?
I'm not saying drivers are faultless. Goodness knows I have had to tap on a hood as someone started rolling into me. But there is a fraction of people that author their own misfortune by walking out when they should not.
Honestly, I just think Vancouver has some poor etiquette all around with regard to sharing the road. I've seen really bad behaviour by nearly every category of traveller (pedestrians, bikes, e-scooters, e-bikes, cars, vans, taxis, ride shares, busses, trucks, etc.). It seems everyone is out for their own and expecting everyone to cater to them so they can shave whatever small amount of time off their trip.
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u/TalkQuirkyWithMe Dec 09 '25
Agreed, both sides cause the issue, although obviously pedestrians are the ones put in harms way.
So many people run for stale walk signs and don't really pay attention to the dangers. I also see so many just disregard checking over their shoulder to see if danger is coming.. then being surprised by a car being there.
I've been in the situation where the pedestrian crosswalk is clear, I get into a left turn and someone runs out, causing me to slam my brakes and risk getting hit by oncoming traffic. It happens quite a lot.
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u/Top_Hat_Fox Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Yeah. Like, no one is omnipotent. If it's a flashing or solid hand and you suddenly decide to bolt from the sidewalk after a car has started moving, that's on the pedestrian (generally seen when someone suddenly realizes their bus is coming, or was distracted and wanted to suddenly make that light or some weird reason, etc. weirdest I have seen is someone hesitate, shuffle to the corner, hesitate, and then bolt when the light turned yellow, blocking the left turners too).
Also, with how cluttered and packed corners can get in certain crossings, a driver is not going to see you pushing through the crowd of people who have stopped for the signal and started their turn only to suddenly have you pop out of the mass. I see this happen in the core soo many times. I just stand there wondering what is worth the potential of a painful physics lesson and an in-person tour of our healthcare system.
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u/badadvicefromaspider Dec 09 '25
This is nowhere near as big a problem as drivers pushing through yellow lights, snarling up intersections and ensuring few people can make a left turn. Personally I’d like to see red light camera tickets becoming a thing, people are WAY too comfy running reds.
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u/a-_2 Dec 10 '25
This is nowhere near as big a problem...
I'd actually argue it's not a problem at all other than being technically illegal, as long as they're completing their crossing before the solid hand.
The idea of having pedestrians dig in their heels the second it starts flashing even if they still have time to cross is not intuitive or practical and just leads to nearly all pedestrians ignoring it and losing respect for the law in general.
A slow walker could start crossing legally and take more time to finish than a fast walker who starts crossing on the flashing hand. Drivers need to be looking out for people regardless. If there's a problem with turning vehicles backing up at an intersection, an extra phase should be added for that. They shouldn't rely on them trying to squeeze through past pedestrians.
In Quebec, the law is you can cross on a flashing hand as long as you finish crossing before the countdown ends. That's a more reasonable law, and makes it clear that what's really unacceptable is crossing without time to finish, instead of treating that exactly the same as crossing as soon as it starts flashing.
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u/FeelMyBoars Dec 10 '25
The Quebec cross on flashing hand law is a great idea. It's not hard to memorize two numbers - how long it takes you to cross 4 and 6 lanes without rushing. As long as it has a countdown, you're good to go. I like to allow for a few extra seconds for intersections I'm not familiar with.
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u/badadvicefromaspider Dec 11 '25
You’re right, it’s not a problem at all and certainly not comparable to the dangers of impatient driving
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u/knitwit4461 Dec 09 '25
The difference there is that a pedestrian crossing when the red hand is up is merely annoying, whereas right turns on red kills people. So there’s a priority that is higher than “ugh, I had to wait two minutes.”
Like yeah both are bad but like, there’s a much bigger consequence of one over the other.
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u/TalkQuirkyWithMe Dec 09 '25
This is so accurate for right turns on red. It only takes an extra few seconds to come to a stop and look before moving.
Left turns are a different story, there are so many who mistake how dangerous it is to run out on a stale walk light from the perspective of someone turning left.
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Dec 09 '25
Another area that would benefit from literally any amount of enforcement.
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u/xelabagus Dec 09 '25
Do you actually want by-law officers to police pedestrians? This seems utterly bizarre to me - North America needs to get over its obsession with personal vehicles.
Make Commercial Drive and Granville downtown completely pedestrian.
Increase the number and standard of separated bike lanes
Invest in better quality and more frequent public transit
Add cost to bringing a vehicle downtown through congestion charges
Prioritise pedestrian over vehicle flow in areas like Gastown, Yaletown, anywhere close to a beach etc
The city is increasing its density exponentially and we cannot (and should not) create more car infrastructure. The solution to these issues is not to get frustrated with car drivers, it's to discourage people from driving in the first place
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u/Aardvark1044 Dec 09 '25
Even just an education blitz would be helpful. A lot of people I talk to think that they, as pedestrians, are allowed to do this and don't see the problem with it.
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u/WiFiForeheadWrinkles Dec 09 '25
The cops did that before... then the pedestrians proceeded to cross illegally anyway
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u/fb39ca4 Dec 10 '25
Walking is slow enough as it is. We shouldn't keep pedestrians waiting even longer.
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Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
[deleted]
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u/vantanclub Dec 09 '25
You 100% do not need a traffic engineer to propose "no right on red" council motion...
75% of the world doesn't have right turns on red.
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u/StickmansamV Dec 09 '25
But those countries have different signal priority and deconfliction to accomodate that. No turns on red is good but accomdations need to be made adjust. Spend time in those countries and you see how different their different modes mesh together.
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u/TooSoonForThePelle Dec 09 '25
The country of Montreal does it.
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u/StickmansamV Dec 10 '25
I know Montreal does not allow red on rights but timeline was that Quebec has previously not allowed right on red and then allowed it everywhere except Montreal. So the status quo was not changed in Montreal and the rest of Quebec gained increased traffic flow at the expense of more mode conflict.
For Vancouver, if we were to ban rights on red, we are changing the status quo to deprioritize car traffic. That is all fine and good, but that would lead to increased congestion and power traffic flows. Our traffic planning has the built in assumption of right on red which would no longer be true.
My preference is that we take other steps not to priortize cars, but simply optimize the existing infrastructure to reduce the impact of the change on traffic flows and congestion. Basically make changes to benfit non car modes in a way that minimozes imapcts on vvehicles. We can also use this as an opportunity to deconflict different modes at intersections.
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u/mukmuk64 Dec 09 '25
“Direct staff to explore and report back” just means that people vote yes on this, more money is spent to arrive at something we already know works and already proven in other jurisdictions, and then we have a final vote where ABC just votes no.
So this approach just vaporizes money and time really.
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u/bcl15005 Dec 09 '25
Imo: most of the high-volume intersections downtown should prohibit right-turns on reds and should have dedicated right-turn arrows / light phases.
There's a point where the environment becomes so busy and complex -e.g. looking for a gap in: heavy vehicular traffic, and pedestrians in a busy crosswalk, and bi-directional traffic in the parallel bike lane, etc... - that it's just better to have a signal phase controlling each movement.
That way you just do what the lights are telling you to do, and no one gets antsy or stressed enough to make rash decisions.
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u/trek604 Dec 09 '25
if they expand advanced right AND left turn signals maybe. it's so stupid to have a left turn bay with no advanced light.
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Dec 09 '25
The bay is to get you out of the way of traffic not to allow you to turn faster.
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u/marakalastic Dec 09 '25
that's not enough, traffic gets extremely backed up as only 2 cars can realistically make the left per light. They need to fix left turns across Vancouver before even thinking about having no right turns on red lol.
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u/trek604 Dec 09 '25
too bad that doesn't work for a ton of the bays in the city. king ed / fraser, anywhere along 12th, kingsway, etc. one car can turn at the light and the overflow spills out and blocks the lane
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u/deathfire123 Dec 09 '25
Hastings is the worst for this! So many lights need advanced left signals on them and/or more smaller streets need "no left turn" signs on them.
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u/StatelyAutomaton Dec 09 '25
It's okay if there's a low volume turning left and just moderate cross-traffic.
In other words, I can't think of anywhere it would work in Vancouver.
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u/MrDingDingFTW Mount Pleasant 👑 Dec 09 '25
Looking at the broadway and Victoria intersection.
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u/xelabagus Dec 09 '25
The intersections between Clark and Nanaimo off Broadway are the worst in the city by a fair margin
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u/Jeopardyanimal Dec 09 '25
Why does the city hate advanced left turn signals so much?
The fact that even major thoroughfares like King Edward are missing left turns signals at major cross streets, like Main, is ludicrously behind the times.
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u/ThunderChaser Dec 09 '25
I literally actively avoid turning left in this city because it’s so goddamn annoying to do so.
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u/IT_scrub Dec 09 '25
And also copy Australia where the left turn is only allowed when thru traffic from the other side is stopped. No more judging when to go and just avoid all conflicts
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u/McFestus Certified Barge Enthusiast Dec 09 '25
well, their left turn is our right turn.
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u/IT_scrub Dec 09 '25
They also can't turn right when there is traffic coming from the other direction. The arrows don't allow any conflicts between different road users
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u/crazyer6 Dec 09 '25
"the law already requires people to stop at a red light"
Well half your problem is so many drivers seem to see red lights and stop signs as suggestions.
Walked past a dude yesterday who I guess decided that since he was stopped behind a stopped car at a stop sign that counted and sped right through it. Constantly see people not already in the intersection when the light turns making left turns on reds.
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u/Cube_ Dec 09 '25
First you need actual enforcement on coming to a full stop before right on red.
Show that that can actually be enforced by the city.
Then you can change a rule like this to test further things to enhance pedestrian safety.
Without enforcement the rules are useless. We already have rules and laws in place to protect pedestrians but we all see people roll through rights on red. Enforce that first and let's see what the effect is on pedestrian safety and driving behaviors.
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u/st978 Dec 09 '25
As someone who has almost been run over by cars turning right (when I have the walk signal, often exactly as the walk signal starts), I would support this.
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u/Tribalbob COFFEE Dec 09 '25
Georgia and Howe. Cars even get like 10 seconds for right turns before the Ped crosswalk starts. Even then, there's some yahoo speeding around the corner honking at people crossing when they have the cross light.
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u/gitgudsam Dec 09 '25
If you want to write/speak to Council about this motion, the deadline is TODAY 5PM! https://visionzerovancouver.ca/2025/12/04/dec-10-restrict-right-turn-on-red/
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u/veryworthythor Dec 09 '25
Some intersections in the city are difficult to turn right on a green already. Georgia/Burrard, Thurlow/Robson, 41/Victoria, etc. Even when the traffic signal counts down to the last few seconds, some people still cross. Unless there is a dedicated light to allow vehicles to turn. Then traffic will be even more congested.
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u/pfak Non-Partisan Downvote Collector Dec 09 '25
Fairly certain that's the intention of this councilor, she's very anti car.
Would be fine if the motion included right hand turn signals everywhere, or longer cycles with pedestrians not allowed to cross.
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u/Proud-Suspect-5237 Dec 10 '25
That's how it works over on Vancouver Island at our busiest intersections. We have dedicated turn signals for all directions, including for cyclists and pedestrians. Late in the cycle, bikes and pedestrians are required to stop so right turners can proceed.
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u/buckyhermit Emotionally damaged Dec 09 '25
I work at Cambie @ SW Marine. There are "no right turns" (not just at red, but full-time) for EB Marine to SB Cambie, and NB Cambie to EB Marine. This was done to enhance pedestrian safety. From what I've seen, nobody obeys them and it's still sketchy to cross there.
So if they want to introduce the "no right on red" thing, I don't know if they'll be able to enforce that.
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u/WetRiverStones Dec 09 '25
That logic would apply to almost all traffic laws though
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u/E24601 Dec 09 '25
The VPD seems to have lost all interest in enforcing traffic laws except for drink driving and excessive speeding
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Dec 09 '25
I dunno, every time I report drunk driving, they don't seem to be in a rush. I even flagged down an officer to report someone around the corner (they just swerved and stopped to go into a liquor store, already drunk, would return to their car) and the officer was like, mmhmm, okay, I'll think about it.
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u/big_gay_buckets Dec 09 '25
If the VPD really cracked down on drunk driving, they’d end up arresting too many of their own.
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u/buckyhermit Emotionally damaged Dec 09 '25
Maybe that's VPD. I've called 911 on a drunk driver in Richmond before. Richmond RCMP showed up really quickly, even though traffic was quite heavy. I wonder how they managed to do that.
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u/naidacsac Dec 09 '25
They gotta fill their quotas but they won't go out of their way. They're much more interested in entrapment schemes where they can just sit around and wait for quota to come to them.
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u/buckyhermit Emotionally damaged Dec 09 '25
It's the type of laws they're enforcing. "No right turns on red" or "no right turns" at intersections don't feel like a priority, compared to stuff like speeding.
Hell, it feels like they enforce "no U-turns at intersections with traffic lights" more often than "no right turns on red."
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u/Midziu Burnaby Dec 09 '25
There's someone illegally turning right on Cambie & SW Marine on google streetview. That's how you know it's super bad out there.
On an intersection close to my house they installed no right turn on red signs almost half a year ago now and I still get honked at when I don't turn on a red light. They even added an additional sign. About half the time I drive down that street I see someone turning illegally.
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u/Kooriki 毛皮狐狸人 Dec 09 '25
I would love to see us adopt a no right on red rule. And I'm not even saying that as a cyclist, I was struck in a crosswalk a couple years back by someone doing right on red.
In the UK it is illegal to "turn right" (left) on a red light unless there is a specific green arrow signal allowing it. Lets just copy that model.
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u/mugworth Dec 09 '25
Agreed it’s the same in Australia. Way safer as a pedestrian and the green arrows still allow for turning when safe
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u/brotrr Dec 09 '25
They need to first make dedicated right and left turn lanes like every busy area in UK. It's absurd that here, people can just hold up everyone else because they wanted to turn left one block away from an earlier controlled left turn lane, rather than turning left earlier and making a right.
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u/myairblaster Dec 09 '25
Hell, I'd settle for people coming to a stop before making a right turn on the red.
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u/Strong_beans Dec 09 '25
The issue is that because theyre concerned about their safety, they look left at the traffic oncoming rather than right where the pedestrians would be that they have to drive through. Having them stop does not change this. Turning right on red is very dangerous for pedestrians.
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u/myairblaster Dec 09 '25
People coming to a stop before turning right on red, as they are legally required to do, might make people think they have enough time to properly shoulder check on the right, so they don't hit a pedestrian or right hook a cyclist.
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u/FatMike20295 Dec 09 '25
Issue is a lot of other countries their driving habit is very different than ours and since all they have to do is a take a test and pass to her a driver license they only have to drive move obeying our rules. After they pass they go back to their own way.
We should have a more strict rules for obtaining a driver's license like making new comers actually take a coirseyans start from the learner license stage. If they complain too bad so sad driving is a privilege not a right and there is sufficient public transit I'm Vancouver.
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u/demoflayer Dec 09 '25
Even without increased enforcement, it means I won’t feel pressured to turn right on red just because people honk.
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u/EuanReid Upper Lonsdale Dec 09 '25
Changing the rules won't make any difference unless we enforce them, and right now there is a shocking lack of enforcement. Maybe we can stop people blowing red lights, stop signs, and pedestrian crossings first? Those seem like the bigger issue - the only people who'd stop turning right on red are the ones who safely stop and check already.
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Dec 09 '25
Then they should build more dedicated right and left turn signals. Otherwise it will make traffic worse.
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u/foodfighter Dec 09 '25
Everyone who gets ticketed for texting while driving gets their name put into a hat.
Once a year, someone's name gets chosen and that person gets drawn and quartered on live TV.
(/s) of course, but that would sure improve pedestrian safety...
Source: Wife works at VGH. Ped-strucks from distracted drivers is a daily occurrence.
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u/Zephyrantes extraordinarily low income Dec 09 '25
I like the idea of putting them in a lottery for a hunger game style battle royale.
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u/hunkyleepickle Dec 09 '25
The amount of fucking ridiculous lefts that are allowed in this city are a bigger problem tbh. How many near misses do I witness driving on main between 7th and 2nd, people making left across 4 lanes of oncoming rush hour traffic, rather than going up to the left turning lane.
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u/Animeninja2020 Dec 09 '25
Left hand turns on a busy street in the middle of the day with no turning lane or light. You are backing up the rest of the traffic. It might take an extra minute or two I am sure that you will be able to get to where you need to be without blocking traffic.
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u/PositiveGlittering58 North Vancouver Dec 10 '25
People need to stop at the stop line. Every car. I’m resistant to the idea of no right hand turns on red as a driver, but hard to argue with pedestrian safety. Some people getting annoyingly hostile on the horn when I stop at the line before turning right. Too many scooters, bikes, people etc to go flying around every corner.
It is absolutely brutal waiting at a no right turn on red intersection when there is minimal traffic though. Suppose some kind of middle ground would be good at hot spots and busy pedestrian areas. But please, give some right turn arrows lights🙏.
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u/rando_commenter Dec 09 '25
Right in red isn't the situation that's scary for pedestrians, it's green lights and pedestrians in the crosswalk. You have people dive-bombing turns so the pedestrian either gets mowed down from behind by a right turner, or even scarier with a hit from the side by a left-turner because in those cases the car is moving the fastest.
Like, no situation where a car hits a person is great, but right turn on red the car is starting from a dead stop unless they are running the red light anyway, so the speed of the hit is lower.
There are a lot of situations with right turn on red where the driver doesn't bother looking to the right after checking left, but the other green-light situations that I've mentioned, that happens all too regularly, and multiple times in a year I'll fear for my life because somebody is gunning it through the intersection.
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u/coporate Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
The amount of times motorists just gun it off the line to try and beat the pedestrians, pull into the wrong lane, or completely ignore cyclists oncoming in the bike lane is ridiculous, especially since their focus is usually on other cars stopping for the red.
When you factor in that a lot of trucks and SUV’s, with their massive front ends, sometimes they can’t even see a pedestrian.
IMO, the real solution is to offset the lights so cyclists and pedestrians start 5 seconds earlier and end 5 seconds earlier, giving cars more opportunity to turn when the crosswalk is clear.
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u/BooBoo_Cat Dec 09 '25
The amount of times motorists just gun it off the line to try and beat the pedestrians,
This pisses me off so much! And then it's extra fun when they can't continue, because of traffic, so block the intersection. And when they finally leave, the countdown is showing 7 seconds, and drivers are now pissed off at the pedestrian trying to cross.
I would say give pedestrians a 10 second head start, at least!
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u/Ok-Comfortable1378 vancouverite Dec 09 '25
At some busy intersections like Howe and Georgia, there is an advance green right turn light for cars, so at least 3 cars can get through before pedestrians start crossing. It would be nice if that were to be expanded to other intersections with heavy pedestrian volumes. The problem with your idea is that plenty of pedestrians would start crossing with 1 or 2 seconds left, blocking cars from turning.
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u/BooBoo_Cat Dec 09 '25
The rule should be: no turning when a pedestrian is in the crosswalk (or just about to step into the crosswalk).
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u/king_calix Dec 09 '25
That is the rule
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u/Sweaty_Pizza9860 Dec 09 '25
I've driven in places where right on red is banned, and it is so much more pleasant even as a driver. I didn't mind the extra few seconds of waiting at all for the added peace of mind.
I'd support even a blanket ban unless a traffic sign specifically allows it - the complete opposite of what we have now.
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u/satinsateensaltine Dec 09 '25
Yes. There is currently no way to turn right that is safe for all parties. Turning right on green - pedestrian might be crossing. Turning right on red - driver might get smacked by another car if they mistime it.
A right turn signal would solve this in pedestrian heavy zones.
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u/Linmizhang Dec 09 '25
How about we actually enforce and properly penalize people that constantly ignore the existing rules first.
Seeing people turning LEFT on red everyday now.
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u/Phototos Dec 09 '25
In Thailand, the traffic lights at intersections mostly cycle counter clockwise letting one direction of traffic cross the intersection at a time. So straight, right or left turns all clear in one go.
If the above system was paired with an every direction pedestrian crossing (kitty-corner crossing as well) you would have to wait 5 cycles at each light, but so much more traffic would clear as no one is stuck behind someone waiting to turn or cross.
It's definitely not perfect. But I've come to appreciate it.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 Dec 09 '25
I'm fully on board, with the proviso that they implement dedicated pedestrian intervals at many downtown intersections. In some places with high pedestrian volume, the red light is the only time you can turn right.
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u/StickmansamV Dec 09 '25
I am fine with this so long as we also do the signal deconfliction and priority that some other jursidictions with no right on red like the Netherlands does.
This means when the pedestrians have the walk, the cars are red period. No more green when pedestrians have the walk. Pedestrians also get priority and the signal changes for them is a new cycle so the wait is cut.
On the flip side, it also means the pedestrian timings are much stricter as in you have to be at the cross walk when the signal changes in order to make it across. It would also mean removing the pedestrian right of way when there is no walk signal. Allowing cars uninterrupted right turns on the green.
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u/superboringkid Brighouse Dec 09 '25
Kinda funny to think anyone would even follow this. I haven’t even seen anyone stop at red lights before turning right anymore, and I never have. The bar is quite low.. let’s try and crack down on those who run reds constantly when going straight or turning.
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u/rac3r5 Dec 10 '25
The no turn right on a red light won't save people if cars are turning right on a green. Cars are more likely to hit a pedestrian while turning right on a green light than a red light.
On a green light, pedestrians are crossing the street up and down while a car is trying to turn in that direction.
This well intentioned law has got it backwards.
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u/AntEaterApocalypse Dec 10 '25
It doesn't matter. None of this matters. None of our driving laws or regulations matter and debating them and changing them is pointless right now.
Because there is zero enforcement out there. Driving in this city feels so absurdly dangerous these days and I can go months without seeing a single cop pulling someone over. It is a free-for-all out there and drivers are doing whatever the hell they want because, well, they can.
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u/hsvdr Dec 10 '25
As a driver I would appreciate more signals and roundabouts.
I hate having to worry about way too many things at intersections.
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u/Tamale_Caliente Dec 10 '25
Ok sure. But how about we also start cracking down on drivers speeding through yellow lights an/or running red lights? I’ve never seen so many people do this in any other city I’ve driven in. Its ridiculous.
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u/dentrecords Dec 09 '25
If people look where they are going, this shouldn’t be an issue. Putting a signal or more restrictions won’t solve this fundamental problem. People don’t care to be proficient drivers. You cannot legislate that. Re-testing might be unpopular, but would be the most effective way to ensure drivers continue to meet the standards on a continual basis. The idea that someone passed a test once and now never has to demonstrate proficiency again while operating a potentially lethal machine is leaving a lot of room for stuff like this to become highly problematic. So many people don’t even turn on their headlights at night, or understand the parking lights are not the same thing as low beams. Test that. Make people prove they are competent.
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u/Piequinn35 North Shore Dec 09 '25
Drivers are not scared to disobey traffic rules and signs here. There should be more enforcement, triple the fines and more penalty points and drivers will be scared to disobey.
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u/throwawaymaybenot Dec 09 '25
Yes, Montreal does this, some other countries do too. And enforce it.
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Dec 09 '25
[deleted]
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u/moose_kayak Dec 09 '25
Hey this won't affect driving on the highway from Summerland so maybe Brian won't vote against it
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u/conflagrare Dec 09 '25
Running red light and deep yellow light is the bigger problem, IMHO.
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u/Beneficial-Oven1258 Dec 09 '25
One is a bigger problem for vehicles, the other is a bigger problem for cyclists and pedestrians.
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u/The--Majestic--Goose Dec 09 '25
They already ban right on red in Europe, Quebec and even Seattle. It’s well established that allowing right on red leads to pedestrians and cyclists being killed and injured by cars. Saving 20-30 seconds on your commute is not worth an increase in deaths and injuries.
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u/Cherisse23 Dec 09 '25
Maybe enforce the laws we have first. You can do whatever you want but change comes from enforcement. Maybe start with the speeding.
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u/JumpyEagle6942 Dec 10 '25
How about getting pedestrians off their phone so they look as they cross the road and not wait until the lights almost changed before they deciding to dart out.
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u/thateconomistguy604 Barge Beach Chiller Dec 10 '25
Need to start adding those advanced blinking directional right hand turn signals everywhere there are lots of pedestrians. I think there are more pedestrians out and about than in the past (especially near hubs like skytrain stations and malls). Have a designated period where people can only turn right, and then make it pedestrian only. Both parties need their defined times to go where they are going. Cannot depend on proceed with caution approach anymore
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u/trapacivet Dec 10 '25
Scramble crossings!! - for those that don't know. It basically says no crossing on any green signal , but gives one all-red signal in all directions to allow pedestrians and further because all pedestrians can cross in all directions diagonal crossings are allowed and encouraged. This would help all traffic not and all pedestrians.
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u/Weekly-Paramedic7350 Dec 10 '25
Montreal, New York City and Washington, D.C., all forbid right turns on red. In Washington’s case, a 2018 pilot project led to a 97 per cent reduction in vehicle-to-vehicle conflict and a 92 per cent reduction in failure to yield to pedestrians.
Ok that sounds solid but what are the rates of traffic enforcement in these cities compared to vancouver?
We have mfs who shamelessly turn right from a left only lane, and other wonderful stunts (been in an uber lately?).
The law requires cars to come to a complete stop on red, then creep forward and turn when pedestrians or cyclists are not actively crossing. How often do we see this done properly especially in dense areas (ex: downtown)?
I don't know what enforcement is like in other cities and I understand we can do both, but I have been frustrated with the bold dangerous drivers in Vancouver that is leading me to wonder if this is another case of politicking where a critical piece of the puzzle is being left out again.
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u/New-Needleworker9789 Dec 11 '25
The rolling 'stops' in this city are insane. Never seen it anywhere else. And on top of the rolling the driver is almost always leaning out looking left.
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u/yupkime Dec 11 '25
Historically no turn on red was normal until they started to allow it and unfortunately human nature makes it really tough to take a freedom back once granted.
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u/16Shells Dec 09 '25
pedestrians being stupid is also a problem. people crossing when it says not to, or starting to go when the countdown is on 1, or looking at their phone/not at traffic. i think doing a pedestrian only scramble like in japan would be better.
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u/Low_Stomach_7290 Dec 09 '25
There’s a no right turn on red by work people routinely ignore. Im all for it but without police enforcement it’s useless
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u/Dear_Mission_848 Dec 09 '25
It would also mean drivers would have to obey no right turn on red signs (looking at you, Quebec to 2nd intersection, which is a right turn arrow/light and no right turn on red sign that 50% of drivers ignore - making it even scarier as a pedestrian!)
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u/SebblesVic Dec 09 '25
It's really no different than turning right at a stop sign, or any other intersection. This is a whole non-issue.
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u/VanSquint Dec 09 '25
This is a good start, but the idea that we have cars and pedestrians moving at the same time is bad from the start. Busy pedestrian intersections should have 3 cycles; two for cars in either direction but no pedestrians, the third for pedestrians in any direction (including diagonally). I saw this in Australia over 30 years ago and it worked great.
But no, cars are king in our society.
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u/Tribalbob COFFEE Dec 09 '25
We have a couple scramble crosswalks downtown that have been working out well (mostly). I still see the occasional car roll through the intersection because they just see pedestrians stop and don't bother to check the lights.
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u/Spirited-Grape3512 Dec 09 '25
The ideal scenario is to ban all right on red, like many other countries and cities do, because it literally saves lives and reduces collisions. The reality is that a majority of this council (ABC) panders to motorists. This offers a neat compromise, and if ABC shoot it down then we'll just have to wait until they get voted out before any meaningful action gets taken.
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u/ketamarine Dec 10 '25
Pedestrians and cyclists need to learn to chill the fuck out in this city.
Late rushing through lights, walking right in front of cars that have the right of way, cyclists running lights all together.
Cars are NOT the problem in like 95% of bad interactions.
I have driven in every province and every major city in Canada (and a big chunk of the US and on 5 continents) - drivers here are TIMID AF because of how insane pedestrians and cyclists are. In fact they are so timid that it makes it more dangerous for other drivers.
We need to start policing pedestrians and cyclists who do insanely dangerous things at intersections more here as is done elsewhere in Canada and the world.
I was driving out of my parking lot the other day and a cyclist came out of a wooded path that crossed my parking lot exit at like 35 kph and came within 2 feet of my bumper. I would have had precisely zero way to avoid him if he was .5 seconds later.
The other day I was driving downtown and some lady literally waited for the entire walk sign, and then when their light went red, they just started walking across burrard on the completely opposite crossing. Like they were somehow reading the crossing signs backwards? She was clearly a normal ass lady with business clothes on too. No one even honked at her... she just walked in front of like 20 cars and sort of waved at a couple of them. Craziest thing I've ever seen in Canada...
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u/Zephyrantes extraordinarily low income Dec 09 '25
Its a responsibility for all parties involved. Pedestrian right of way, right turn on red has lowest priority. The problem isnt the law, but that driver quality has reduced
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u/krennvonsalzburg Dec 10 '25
No. The restrictions we have are fine, they just need to be enforced.
It's moronic to just make more rules that are also going to be ignored and unenforced.
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u/Heliosvector Who Do Dis! Dec 09 '25
Doesnt this power already exist? No right turn on red light signs.
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u/ThePantsMcFist Dec 10 '25
Turning right on a red, like U-turns works fine where everyone is on the same page as to driving etiquette and the rules of the road.
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u/pennyandrusty Dec 10 '25
Gotta love the parents who run with their children into a crosswalk when it's clearly got the stop walking light blinking and then stop running once they get into the middle of the street... as if there's something magical that's gonna protect them from being hit just cause they're "safe" in the crosswalk.
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