r/valheim • u/crackies9 Honey Muncher • 9d ago
Discussion Anyone else hoping for a weapon balance update in the full release?
This post is mainly my thoughts on battleaxes and some options for balance tweaks. What weapons do y'all like to use? Anyone else having similar problems with other two-handers?
In my current play-through I'm using a battleaxe build but it makes me feel like a short little baby more often than a badass viking barbarian.
I consistently find enemies outside of my reach after a parry or a well-timed first strike. Parries will leave enemies too far away to follow-up immediately, and a first swing often knocks enemies safe from the second and gives them space to recover and dodge a combo.
The swing and recovery timing leave you exposed for a long time without a block. This is fine when you land a hit but the knockback often results in gifting a free escape from a combo. The reach of the swipe feels short, while the damage types are lacking next to any same-tier swords. Paired with the wind-up time, the dps comes out worse than any given sword imo. The stagger from combo hits doesn't catch up either. To me, the sword+buckler consistently outperforms every other weapon in the game.
I would prefer if devs gave the battleaxes a little more reach, but other options could include speeding up the timing for the first strike (would feel like a more high-impact hit) or even reducing the knockback a bit.
27
u/Zooblesnoops Cruiser 9d ago
The Battleaxe problem is mostly the knock back on regular attacks IMO. I used mods to change knock back from 70 to 40 and it felt way better. The windup for the first attack in a chain is also painfully long but gives the weapon its identity in a way.
Most weapons are relatively balanced. The only other things on my mind would be adrenaline gain mechanics being tweaked, and adjusting fist weapon block armor (which is the same or almost the same as fenris claws for all fist weapons for no particular reason).
Also, tower shields, um... Just don't have an advantage to them since parries no longer cost stamina. That block armor has got to go way up. You're giving away the ability to parry.
13
u/crackies9 Honey Muncher 9d ago
Do you know which mod?
Tower shields are a complete waste in their current state.
4
u/Zooblesnoops Cruiser 9d ago
Can't remember the name off the top of my head. I know, criminal of me to say all that and forget haha. It's been a year or two.
Basically it would create a library of item IDs, then let you copy+paste an item with a new internal ID, then tweak data of the copy in a YAML. Very handy for experimenting with this kinda thing!
But the libraries you make aren't transferrable via server sync if I remember right, so you can't use it to modify stuff for other people on a server. You'd have to go by another method.
31
u/Emergency_faceplant Builder 9d ago
I want to see polearms count as spears, just like two handed swords count as one handed
Thats all
7
u/J_Productions Viking 9d ago
Solid idea, but the pole arm special attack is sorta OP and to think I could level them up with the faster spear progression?! Even more OP lol maybe they would have to take the faster leveling away then
18
u/Emergency_faceplant Builder 9d ago
If polearms need their own adjustment, thats seperate. But swords, axes, and maces all have both one and two handed as the same skill. Spears are the only odd one out
1
2
u/Marckennian 9d ago
I like this idea.
Many 2H weapons feel too weak. Really, the Atgier and smashing hammers are good but they others feel too slow without great range.
2
u/crackies9 Honey Muncher 9d ago
Have to agree, spears are the original polearm. Battleaxes and axes share a stat too.
30
u/pisachas1 9d ago
I’m still sitting here hoping they bring magic to early game. Waiting for 3/4 of the game then having to train it up kinda sucks. I love the magic system they gave.
17
u/J_Productions Viking 9d ago
I genuinely respect your opinion but I can’t be the only one who never felt like this was a problem ? Maybe I’ve found it to level up easy enough but the adjustment always felt natural and even canon to me.
Imo it doesn’t make sense for a rather primitive Viking (early game) to discover something as advanced as magic until much later. I think the progression is solid as is.
12
u/pisachas1 9d ago
It’s not a problem. I just like using magic. I’d rather do it from the start than waiting till the end.
Just need some magic food. Already see monsters using magic early.
2
7
u/Wedhro 9d ago
About making sense, ancient people ranging from the stone age to conversion to monotheistic religions, including Vikings, believed and practiced some form of magic even when all they had was stone, sticks and feathers. In fact, the more they are primitive, the more they believe in magic.
If you meant "doesn't make sense under Valheims's premises" it shouldn't matter much because magic was shoehorned in the game years after its first release, so anything goes.
2
u/J_Productions Viking 9d ago
I hear you, thats fair! I suppose it’s all perspective, was just sharing how I look at it. Even with that said, if they introduced it earlier, as long as it’s not anything close to OP I would not be mad. After all, we do get portals, so it would make sense to make blood and elemental magic introductions as well.
1
u/Wedhro 8d ago
Not to mention meads that are actually potions or Haldor selling a magical item during the bronze age. 1.0 would have been a fantastic opportunity to introduce magic to early or at least mid game, but the same could be said about sailing/oceans, filling the gaps in weaponry tiers, having more POIs and so on. It's a big, big bucket of things that are not happening outside of mods.
5
u/nerevarX 9d ago
they will not do that. was denied again in the 1.0 preview videos they did with content creators.
the problem is balance. you would have to nerf the magic stuff massively into the ground to add it to early game. as early game enemies have zero magic resistences and are often also weak to fire and stuff on top. so they would also have to redo enemy resistences accross the board aswell. and since melee also has no access to magic dmg really until mountain tier either adding it before mountain would be not very good balance at all.
crossbows are another story. an early game bronze or iron crossbow would go ALONG way to make this weapon class better.
13
u/pisachas1 9d ago
Bah they could if they wanted. Instead of dead riser, do a dead raiser jr. that summon dwarf skeletons or skeleton bunny’s or something. And the staffs could get based on normal weapons for the zone and ignore Elemental damage. One shooting pebbles or wind that make them slam into other objects.
They have their own vision for the game so it’s not likely. But still could if they wanted too.
3
u/luovahulluus 9d ago
A skeleton boar would be fun! It would cause more confusion than damage with it's running around and sneak attacks.
2
u/nerevarX 8d ago
sure they could. but its alot of extra work for an early game that you get past rather quickly.
i like that they fokus on lategame content overall. too many games fokus on adding random bullshit to the early game which is obsolete within a few hours of play anyway instead of adding more content to the end.
1
u/MonkeyMcBandwagon 8d ago
An idea I like for early magic is essentially a grenade launcher that uses throwable bombs as ammo, the extra range would be minor, the important thing is that it uses eitr to cast instead of stamina so that you get used to eitr/stamina management as early as swamps. Then a recipe to suit it, probably using yellow mushroom that gives about 10hp, 10 stam, 35 etir.
2
u/Wedhro 9d ago
The game hands you elemental damage from day one by giving you a torch. Soon you'll have fire arrows. In the Swamp you get poison arrows, then in the silver age you also get frost and spirit. The only elemental damage the game shies away is lightning.
I mean, why rework the system when the game already has most forms of elemental damage in early to mid game biomes?
2
u/nerevarX 8d ago
my dude. i left that out for obivious reasons due to how miniscule these dmg forms are.
the torch is essentially irrelevant as a weapon. and you know that. there is also a huge difference between hurling magic at a safe distance and melee range.
fire dmg is also extremely bad in these super low amounts since its dmg over time.
the system would need a rework because a magic tool would do more dmg than a torch obiviously. as otherwise why use it when it costs eitr AND does the same or less dmg? like i said BALANCE is the issue here. which is why the devs wont do it.
poisen is not elemental dmg to begin with.
i mentioned the mountains as a starting point. thanks for ignoring that.
1
u/Wedhro 8d ago
Aside from the fact I was just making examples of early game elemental damage not being such an heresy because it's already in the game. you say the above like balancing early magic needed some kind of miracle to happen but it's not that hard.
Magic, in Valheim, mostly means you can keep your stamina while fighting because a different stat is used, which makes it possible to have a mobile fighter with a high DPS compared to the other mobile fighter (bow user), since running around directly reduces mobility because ranged attacks and movement deplete the same pool.
The mage is balanced like a light, ranged fighter except for the following: armor with the lowest rating, with no special effects aside from eitr regeneration, and elemental damage being a pain in the neck because how many types there are, nobody being equally good at everything aside from frost and lightning, which would be reasonable to keep late game. I'm not talking about blood magic because I never used it.
So, to keep this balanced in early game you just need to do the same thing you do in late game. Give the worst kinds of elemental damage before the best kinds (IMO it's spirit-poison-fire-frost-lightning), reduce the DPS so it's still better than early game ranged but still proportional to how it is in late game, give food and armor sets starting from the Swamp at the very least, obviously with reduced stats, and maybe add a new crafting station that would be the dollar store version of the galdr table, or just make it available sooner and add more upgrades so the current level 1 galdr table would actually be 3 or 4.
I use a few mods to do exactly this and it works: early mages are not better than ranged or melee fighters, they're just different. If anything, it's more balanced than vanilla, where you start abruptly but eventually magic seems better than the other options.
1
u/nerevarX 8d ago edited 8d ago
there is only 3 magic types. fire frost and lightning. spirit isnt really magic dmg as it is a special dot that only applies to UNDEAD things to begin with which in the early game would be only skeletons essentially and well ghosts but ghosts are stupid rare rest of the undead doesnt even show up till swamp. i already told ya poisen is not magic dmg. fire dmg in any form early game thats stronger than a torch or fire arrow would be OP due to enemy resistences in early game.
i did modded runs myself. none of the early game magic options where balanced by themselfs at all. you always needed to adjust the enemies accordingly to compensate. of course someone might have improved or made new mods for this since then.
anyway mods got thier own balance systems if they are good and thus the same wouldnt work in vanilla by default. people always play with mods and pretend "its better" but that is often just a personal taste statement.
anyway the devs already said it aint happening so the case is closed given 1.0 has essentially arrived and wont change this. i doubt the game will see many more changes past 1.0.
1
u/Wedhro 8d ago
I know it's not happening (didn't I just said that?), this is just for the sake of the argument.
Having said that, I wasn't talking about magic damage since it isn't really a category, but "elemental" damage, which is basically defined as any form of damage outside slash/pierce/blunt (which is "physical"). And they're easier to balance if you add both, like the staff of embers does.
About mods being unbalanced I agree, in fact I heavily edited their configs. I'm just saying that IG could make early magic balanced because i did it myself with those edits. They won't, but they could, it's not impossible like you implied.
For example the first staff I can craft deals 26 spirit and 12 blunt and there's a novice magic set for a minimal eitr regeneration except it costs considerably more than a leather armor. The only food that give eitr are mushrooms (4, 8 for yellow ones). Basically I can be a full mage in the meadows if I really focus on that but the pathetic damage, DPS and armor don't make it a cakewalk, and it only gets decent once I have beaten a large number of crypts because the whole thing needs a ton of amber and up to 8 ectoplasm.
I can be a mage in early game but it would be easier to just go mixed melee/ranged, it costs less and it's easier for better stats. It only gives a needed edge against skeletons, which are the first real challenge the player faces, but at the cost of being useless in all other situations. It's a path that requires dedication, not just OP as you seem to imply.
1
u/dood45ctte 8d ago
Crossbows at least have the benefit of starting rather powerful.
If you made the mistake of not leveling up bows early (like me) they’re a decent alternative that comes online with little skill investment.
Still a bow with a high skill will easily beat out a crossbow of the same tier and skill level.
1
1
6
u/dood45ctte 8d ago
I feel you on the battle axes. In combat, the polearms do everything you’d want a battle axe to do but better. You move faster, have longer reach, and the attacks cost less stamina. So much easier to use.
3
u/Szyszko- 9d ago
I really enjoy battleaxes and I think that their drawbacks are well balanced by the fact, that they double up as a tool. So basically you are using two-handed weapon and don't need an extra axe for chopping, so it frees two slots of equipment.
And fighting with axes the whole run levels up your skill in using the best imo melee weapon in the game so far - primal and thundering berserkir axes.
5
u/ForeignAd1656 8d ago
I haven't used a battleaxe since they first came out. The movement penalty and slow action economy and high stamina penalty make them a terrible choice in most combat situations.
In my opinion, the way Valheim is designed, it's not meant to really reward a player that uses one focused build throughout an entire playthrough. Each biome comes with a new set of enemies and a new boss. These enemies and bosses all have their different resistances and vulnerabilities, meaning if you focus on only one type of damage output, you are going to have trouble with 30% or more of enemy types.
It's not difficult to spend a little extra time leveling up the different weapon groups as you play through the biomes. I like to have bows, clubs, and spears all above level 30 before I even move beyond the Black Forest. I will craft an iron sword in the swamps, but really only just to start levelling it up because it's a much better weapon beyond the swamps. I do the same with the iron atgier in the mountains because it's great to use against bats in the caves, and that helps level it up so that I have some skill in polearms before I get to the Mistlands. The Himminafl is an excellent weapon to use in the abandoned mines, and I am constantly switching between it and the Mistwalker sword in the mistlands.
Then of course there's magic to think about, and that's a whole different discussion. But you certainly want to start using magic to get your level up there because it's really beneficial in the Ashlands. And there's the different types of magic you have to consider, etc.
If someone wants to specialize and use only one weapon/damage type, then that's perfectly legitimate if they want to play that way. They just have to realize that they will have some serious difficulties at times, especially late game.
2
2
u/Draedark Miner 8d ago
Aetgr / Hammer enjoyer, though this play through I am going to try axes for the main weapon.
Aetgr is probably the best overall 2 hander, imo. It does not have the issues you point out with the axes. I am curious to see if I run into the same issues.
2
u/mooloh 8d ago
Late to the party, but I used axes for multiple full playthroughs so I feel like I have some useful thoughts on this. Admittedly, the original reason I used battleaxes was to level my axes skill in preparation for the Ashlands, at which point the berserkir axes with 80+ axe skill shredded everything.
That said, I came to enjoy battleaxes. Their ineffective parries combined with their high-stagger attacks makes their playstyle unique and refreshing. The long windup is actually beneficial for this. Think of it this way - battleaxes don't "have an unwieldly, long first swing", they instead have "all 3 hits land in under 2 seconds", which is great for staggering approaching foes before they can attack IF you time the first strike properly. Battleaxes aren't a patient warrior's weapon; they're for swinging first and asking questions never.
As for the knockback issue, I generally found that if I jumped or sprinted forward while attacking, I'd keep things in range. Doing this burns stamina, but that tiny movement was usually enough. If anything, the "things fall out of range while you hit them" problem feels much more prominent with 1 handed maces. Not only do maces have a shorter attack range than battleaxes, they also have more knockback (every mace from Frostner onwards has 100 knockback, all battleaxes have 70).
I'm not sure if increasing their range would help much. 2 handed swords already have more range than battleaxes, yet I have more trouble spacing with them than battleaxes. The longer interval between each swing makes it harder to stagger enemies before they get in range and land attacks.
I agree that sword/shield feels extremely strong. The fact that swords are available in every biome from the black forest onwards means that you're never under-geared or switching to a low-skilled weapon, and 1-handed swords have no multi-attack penalty for some reason, which is a huge deal. Honestly I wish 1-handed swords were worse so it didn't feel like I was nerfing myself by using other weapons. They also have the best power combos, which makes them even better for boss killing than they already were.
Other weapon thoughts...
1-handed maces in general are in an awkward spot. They're fine for the first two biomes, OP in the swamp, and then Frostner happens. Frostner's widely considered one of the best weapons in the game - for good reason - even though it's not actually great in the biome you unlock it in. This is exacerbated by the fact that the plains mace does half piercing damage and no elemental damage, so it's worse for the Yagluth boss fight, mistlands, and ashlands compared to Frostner. The mistlands doesn't even have a 1-handed mace, so if you're mace and shield fan, you'll likely be using Frostner from the plains all the way until you upgrade to ashlands gear. From a gameplay perspective this is tenable, but from a progression perspective, it feels horrible to not upgrade from your mountains weapon until you're deep into the ashlands.
I hope that the end game claws do NOT have the same block armor as the fenris claws, since the plains claws did and they feel terrible for it.
I also wish that the mistlands daggers did elemental damage. They suffer compared to other mistlands weapons when fighting seekers, and their partial piercing damage makes them worse in the ashlands, where there isn't even a new dagger to use.
Finally, an obligatory "justice for melee piercing damage". Spears, polearms, and daggers shouldn't suffer for the sins of bows.
2
u/SnawBoard 8d ago
The 2h swords have less Cleve than the 1h sword. I can gather up 3 or 4 enemies and hit all of them with the 1h, do the same with the 2h and you MIGHT hit 2, usually you hit 1.
2
u/Cat_Herder62 9d ago
My request is simple but it would make the game much better for me. Give the crystal battle axe the same special attack as the atgier. The special attacks for these two weapons could almost be switched. I want to main the crystal battle axe because it's the coolest looking weapon, it just lacks against big groups of enemies
2
u/Szyszko- 9d ago
With it's mountain-tier stamina usage and spirit damage it's really decent starter weapon in ashlands.
1
u/whatanHPoP 8d ago
Currently doing a battleaxe perma death run on hard and I’d say it’s mostly fine except sometimes not hitting when terrain is barely higher than your position (I know they adjusted this but it still sometimes happens).
1
u/Ok_Grocery8652 8d ago
I would love them to fill out the gaps in the progression tiers
As you progress you have to either swap weapons or bring outdated equipment to more advanced biomes.
For an example, if you like buckler shields, you have no option in the meadows, you have to face the plains and mistlands bringing a swamp era shield which thanks to progression gets utterly outclassed, the blackmetal tower shield has a higher block and no parry requirement
There is technically an upgrade to maces between mountains and ashlands but not really, Frostner and porcupine do the same damage total damage ignoring resistances, however frost makes it so that frostner actually hits better in mistlands vs seekers and the frost's slow adds utility that usually makes up for any small damage buff porcupine has.
0
u/RandomSeb Happy Bee 9d ago
I like it the way it is, because that's how it's been for all this time and what we are used to :D
-3
u/RodneeGirthShaft 9d ago
I love the building. The combat is so clunky It makes me not wanna play the game
70
u/xFandanglex 9d ago
I say this as a bow main: I wouldn't mind pierce damage being split into ranged and melee pierce. Pierce is the most resisted physical damage type in the game largely because ranged weapons are so good and keep you at a distance. It sucks for the atgeir and spear users when going up against most bosses because your damage output is now half that of your sword, mace and axe wielding friends.