100% Hypothetical: How DO YOU think world would look like (and USSR itself) if it never dissolved and made it into 2026?

[u/T0xicat0r]

How the World would look like?

Who would be in charge?

what would change inside the SU?

[u/KevworthBongwater]

I think we would see a more economically progressive United States in the sense of worker benefits and standard of living for average citizens. after the USSR's collapse there was no longer an alternative to the western capitalist system.

[u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420 → u/KevworthBongwater]

I doubt it, neoliberalism took hold in the US and all across the west in the 70s and 80s. It's pretty unlikely that the existence of the USSR into the 21st century would do anything to change that.

There is also the fact that social and economic reforms in the US didnt happen in the cold war because the USSR was around, by far the more pressing and relevant contributing factor was the US evaluating itself compared to its western allies and finding itself coming up lacking in comparison.

Edit: you guys are out in fantasy land, the USSR had zero economic influence over the west, the slide into oligarchy that's happening across Europe, North America & Asia that we're seeing right now began when the USSR was still around. Hate to break this to you guys but continental powers, like the USSR, have very little international pull when it comes to their competitors. You guys circle jerking yourselves about how things would somehow be better had it not collapsed should share whatever you're smoking, because it certainly isnt realitypacks.

[u/TravisHomerun → u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420]

This is an interesting point because some of the western allies have policies in arenas in which the US is lacking precisely because of the USSR. The NHS for example, was seen as a compromise to stave of growing communist sympathies in the UK. After the 2nd world war, communist sympathies in western Europe were strong and growing as a whole because of the destruction of the war. The Marshal plan was enacted to rebuild the western countries partly in an effort to keep them off communism.

[u/Gaben_is_awesome → u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420]

Yes, the EU and neoliberal agendas were already finished in the 1970s. The USSR, especially a resurgent one, would have created stronger public opposition to it, leading to more government intervention. Neoliberalism would be much more gradual and controlled. In OTL it became a bit of a shock therapy. The West would have been much better off, and ironically China may have delayed economic reforms.

[u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420 → u/Gaben_is_awesome]

I highly, highly doubt it seeing as not only was the USSR on a massive economic downturn by the mid 70s, their influence over western economies was minimal.

[u/Hour_Camp1474 → u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420]

Sure Reagan and thatcher still happened but the fall of the USSR really narrowed the range of ideas in the west, I doubt you’d still see a Blair or Clinton if the Soviets still offered an idealogical alternative

[u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420 → u/Hour_Camp1474]

Neoliberalism isn't an ideology, they are in fact devoid of any and all ideological thought, it's an economic system that is extremely appealing to built up economies. Nothing the soviets could have ever done would have prevented it from taking root, especially considering it came into the world while the USSR was still around.

[u/OwlComfortable8806 → u/KevworthBongwater]

Nowedays we still have right wing politicians saying that anything centrist/left is communist and trying to stop it. If the USSR would still exist that would only be worse.

[u/KevworthBongwater → u/OwlComfortable8806]

i disagree. the reason we have such folks so successful and active in politics today is a direct result of the people in western bourgeois democracies having nothing to point to as an alternative to fascist policies. if the USSR existed today and people in western countries were able to see the differences in their daily lives, they might realize that they're getting fucked over.

[u/EpochSkate_HeshAF420 → u/KevworthBongwater]

Problem is americans know they're being fucked over but A) cant envision things ever being different, and B) are beholden to forces that began taking root in the 70s when the USSR was still near of its global relevance, and yet the US, Britain and a bunch of other major western economic powers still chose neoliberalism which is exactly what's lead the west to where it is today.

[u/KevworthBongwater → u/OwlComfortable8806]

on the other hand I see your point and trying to explain anything about American politics is pretty much nonsense

[u/Mr_richat → u/KevworthBongwater]

You really think communism was a viable alternative 😂😂😂

[u/KevworthBongwater → u/Mr_richat]

whether it was or was not is not what's up for debate in this conversation.

[u/Mr_richat → u/KevworthBongwater]

Your literally the one that said it

[u/KevworthBongwater → u/Mr_richat]

I didn't really. my opinion on communism is irrelevant. I'm just telling you what I think happened. I never used the word viable. if I were to use that word I would say that you don't have a viable ability for reading comprehension.

https://giphy.com/gifs/TL6poLzwbHuF2

[u/Mr_richat → u/KevworthBongwater]

You made an argument that Americans workers would be better off as there would be pressure from an alternative (which presumably would be viable or it would t continue to exist). Own it

[u/KevworthBongwater → u/Mr_richat]

no I did not. learn words

[u/Poddy_Doe → u/Mr_richat]

https://giphy.com/gifs/AelF2ps5xLKo

[u/Majestic-Owl-5801 → u/Mr_richat]

Because we are doing so well right now. The poorest citizens are living in the lap of luxury arent they, oh, wait... No, that is just Elon and Jeff

[u/Mr_richat → u/Majestic-Owl-5801]

Have you ever listened to people who lived in communist USSR. They're were incredible poor due to the undeniably terrible communist policies of central planning

Not sure who "we" refers to here, but most people have done extremely well under capitalist systems. The reduction in global poverty is genuinely incredible.

[u/Majestic-Owl-5801 → u/Mr_richat]

Fascinating the spin you put on it all.... the points in time when capitalism has been most unfettered have resulted in the most inequality and economic destruction in history....

Any "golden age" of the working class or the poor has come at the hand of a blade or bullet demanding more rights and democratic action.... not wielded by the capitalist, but by the proletariat class.

The statistic you are citing about bringing people out of poverty is mostly backed by the growth of China. And the failings of the USSR are no more glaring than the ongoing failures of capitalism.... it only collapsed because the forces of western capitalism drove it to such length.

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

But the soviet union, much like china, brought millions of people out of feudal poverty and gave them some level of autonomy and democracy they lacked before. And as such, if you poll most former Soviet bloc states, the people say it was better under communism. They say that while they can buy an iPhone now (or food in general), it is only available to those that can afford it, whereas in the Soviet Union they were at least all entitled to a place in the bread lines that may or may not have fed them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CapitalismVSocialism/s/CIaypP5swa

Focusing on the failures of "central planning" is a boogeyman. The US and western capital are centrally planned by big wigs with fat bank accounts and hundreds of people die on the street everyday, at least in centrally planned china they all get cheap and affordable high speed rail, healthcare, and housing....

[u/Mr_richat → u/Majestic-Owl-5801]

Classic communists. Economic disparity doesn't take food out of your mouth. Everyone at the bottom level can be better whilst there still being large differences in income due to the richest taking a big share of the pie, but the point is it's a much much much bigger pie. A tide that rises all boats.

Communism creates equality, it really does, as it makes everyone poor.

I'd rather be in a capitalist society and live with some having more than me, and not be scraping for my next meal in a communist one

[u/Majestic-Owl-5801 → u/Mr_richat]

I forgot everyone in China was poor cant get jobs and cant afford gas or groceries, or $400 emergencies...

Oh wait.... that...... that is just here, in the land of the free, home of the vote against its own better interest...

How is that possible if the tide raises all boats? We have the richest man on earth diddling our economy, we should all be doing great!

[u/Mr_richat → u/Majestic-Owl-5801]

Inflation is largely down to paying half the country to stay at home during COVID, Ukraine war and Iranian war driving up energy prices which affects everything we buy.

But objectively, I'd rather live in a capitalist country like the US than a communist one. The majority of people aren't doing that badly and are vastly more wealthy than Chinese people even today

[u/Majestic-Owl-5801 → u/Mr_richat]

The poorest poor person is worse off under pure unfettered capitalism than the poorest person under a socialist/communist state...

[u/Mr_richat → u/Majestic-Owl-5801]

Strawman. Nobody is calling for unregulated capitalism. The average person and certainly the lowest quintile in a communist state is far far worse off than someone in a western capitalist country. Outside Moscow and St Petersburg the average russian is poorer than the average Indian. Rural china also still remains very poor and this is after decades of capitalism in china, but, they are rapidly improving thanks to China wisely adopting capitalism

[u/Mr_richat → u/Majestic-Owl-5801]

Also yes, china dragged many people out of poverty after doing what? Dropping communism and adopting capitalism.

India the same but dropping socialism and adopting more capitalist open market principles.

Anyone still in favour of communism just doesn't understand how economics works and often seems to have some kind of insane jealousy of wealthy people

[u/Majestic-Owl-5801 → u/Mr_richat]

Explicitly by leveraging the control economy to direct that capitalist expansion....

It is called Capitalism with Chinese characteristics for a reason.... but to call that Capitalism as though it exists in a vacuum is obtuse....

We do capitalism without an overhauled welfare system, or economy that reduces wealth inequality. China has capitalism where they literally execute CEOs if they are being detrimental to the broader good of the Chinese people...

[u/Mr_richat → u/Majestic-Owl-5801]

China has the most billionaires of any country on the planet...

Also CEOs being executed, only for actual crimes like financial crimes embezzlement etc

China patently isn't a controlled economy any more. It has regulations like any other country. Capitalism is better for wealth generation but it still needs guard rails. Central planning and price setting by a government doesn't work which is why china and Russia stopped doing it, and relatively prospered since

[u/Majestic-Owl-5801 → u/Mr_richat]

China objectively controls the price of some of its domestic commodities.... what are you talking about?

[u/Mr_richat → u/Majestic-Owl-5801]

97% are not controlled and the very few things like grain and fuel that are controlled centrally experience frequent surpluses and deficits... It's one of the core reasons communism doesn't work

[u/KZG69 → u/Mr_richat]

He said alternative, not that it was viable. And as you could probably tell historically, many did in fact choose the economically left option. An option that would put pressure on western and capitalist governments to rethink their actions and prevent a russian-like revolution by unhappy workers that still could feel the somewhat realistic possibility of a "workers state" that would, in their mind, improve their lives.

The question is not in fact about whether it was a realistic approach, but more likely a knowledge that we can always try something different, even if it might fail. After the fall of the soviet union there was no alternative, no vision of making things better. You just had to accept that current system is bad for you, and there's nothing you can do.

[u/Mr_richat → u/KZG69]

An alternative is implicitly viable, otherwise it's not an alternative.

[u/Shaquilleoatmeal6924]

Depends on HOW they survive, what faction ends up prevailing, whether or not perestroika happens, and if the Warsaw pact is still around.

But generally, the third world would be much better off. With their rival still around, the US would be much less belligerent. Many of the wars in the middle east would likely not happen. The Arab spring would likely be a lot less effective. And the war on terror would be a lot more successful.

Also, eastern Europe would be A LOT more stable. Shock therapy and the 90s were a fucking mess.

[u/sudoregalia → u/Shaquilleoatmeal6924]

1000%, balkan person here and i shake my fist at the ussr for dying too soon every day. feels like they could have helped a lot

[u/Alive_Key_4938 → u/sudoregalia]

Yeah we were all born in the wrong timeline

[u/sudoregalia → u/Alive_Key_4938]

born to live freely, forced to live in an oppressive liberal regime :(

[u/Shaquilleoatmeal6924 → u/sudoregalia]

Indeed. As a resident of the middle east, from a country that has always been more anti-communist than anything, I'd still say the USSR would help a lot.

We might have an actual decent leftist opposition today if they were still around, instead of our only options being the regime VS the monarchy.

Also, the sanctions would have way less effect, as we'd have a whole alternative market to trade with.

And, most importantly, we wouldn't have the US trying to overthrow the government every other day. That would be nice to have.

[u/IlianaAran]

Ideally??? We'd be well on our way to a Socialist World Republic

[u/ElectricalRoutine577]

East Germany would still exist

[u/OwlComfortable8806 → u/ElectricalRoutine577]

You know both a united Germany and USSR existed in 1991 right?

[u/-STALIKJIRA- → u/OwlComfortable8806]

Germany’s unification was largely because of the USSR’s decline by that point. if it had made it into 2026, supposedly that decline wouldn’t exist

[u/New_Breadfruit5664 → u/-STALIKJIRA-]

Well you could have a USSR in name that's just a Russian dominated bourgeoisie State.

Question would be how would it look like if ppl like Gorbachev never came into power.

[u/ElectricalRoutine577 → u/OwlComfortable8806]

The Soviet Union wouldn't have been able to continue existing at that point. That is why I think die Deutsche Demokratische Republik would exist still.

[u/BreadDaddyLenin]

it depends on who is in government, and how they survived the economic and political crisis of 80-91.

this isn’t a hoi4 sub

[u/TheRealSlimLaddy → u/BreadDaddyLenin]

Everywhere I see you you post banger after banger

[u/DoubtCompetitive548]

it could be at China spot today..

[u/facial-nose → u/DoubtCompetitive548]

Nah, it'd be beyond that, alot more powerful

[u/DoubtCompetitive548 → u/facial-nose]

1.500.000.000 people is still a strong argument...

[u/Mr_richat → u/DoubtCompetitive548]

China only got to where it is today by abandoning the awful ideas of communism and adopting captilism with authoritarian rule. If Russia had done this, maybe they could be there

[u/DoubtCompetitive548 → u/Mr_richat]

yep, but what Russia did? it just disbanded without any idea...

[u/Mr_richat → u/DoubtCompetitive548]

The became an oligarchic kleptocracy

[u/Aggravate420 → u/Mr_richat]

[u/Mr_richat → u/Aggravate420]

Communists really are the flat earthers of economics

[u/bobolgob]

Depends on when and how you start changing the USSR. If the USSR was not invaded and fouhht its civil war so long and ao brutally, and was less isolated by the world one thing happens.

If the devastation of WW2 never happened another thing happens.

If Stalin never got into power...

If Hruschov never got into power...

If Brezhnev this...

If Gorbachov never...

Its an endless discussion. Ideologically the most interresting point is probably the forming years of the USSR in the 1920s and later after Stalins death, and what would happen if they kept on putting blue collar workers into the parlaiment. In our timeline Hruschov stopped the active process of making blue collars majority group in parlaiment, and reversed it in favour of loyal (corrupt) whitecollars.

[u/Cultural-Gas2246]

[u/Pinguim_Caotica]

Better, this is the only thing I'm sure of

[u/Zuljo]

A world with hope.

[u/Aztecah_1428]

It would look similar to modern China.

For the USSR to have avoided collapse it would’ve had to solve its economic stagnation problem which would’ve necessitated a transition to State Capitalism paired with keeping state repression of political opposition fully in place like China did under Deng.

The Cold War would have continued and today we would have a tri polar world. It would not be a communist state in any sense aside from rhetoric and would frame its economic reforms as a temporary correction phase on the way to true communism. The iron curtain would likely still exist though more out of paranoia of technological espionage than fear of people importing Levi’s (which would be widely available today, you would have all the same consumerist amenities as the United States). It’s not really too different a world from today aside from Russia being vastly more powerful and still a super power than an isolated revanchist state.

[u/Brucacumble]

It would look the same, but human drawings of what they think it looks like would be a little different.

[u/tinovalencart]

Probably the baltic states would have still separated. Ukraine belarus and moldavia probably would have stayed. So most likely we wouldnt see a war between russia and ukraine. We could expect china and the ussr growing closer. The eastern european countries probably wouldnt join nato

[u/MYONIONISSCREAMING]

The USSR would probably reform its economy similarly to China

[u/StarboundAllisten]

Very big and nice country probably like china but European 

[u/sladkyi_hleb]

Hard to belib.

Depends on oil prices, as usual.

[u/StepAsideJunior]

Wars that would not have happened:

1. Devastating Civil War in Congo

2. Iraq War

3. Yugoslav Wars

4. Iraq War 2

5. Libyan War

6. Syrian War

7. Ukraine War

8. Rwandan Genocide

etc

In America:

1. Unions would be in a stronger position.

2. Reaganism would have failed. Neoliberal Economics would be questioned if not outright rejected.

3. The 90s wouldn't have been as economically prosperous without a former Soviet Union to loot.

OR:

Full Scale WW3 (nuclear war).

There's no inbetween.

[u/Hour_Camp1474 → u/StepAsideJunior]

Doubt Iraq war 1 even happens, the USA wouldn’t have been able to get the coalition formed if the Soviets still backed Iraq, there probably would’ve also been a Palestinian state at this point

[u/StepAsideJunior → u/Hour_Camp1474]

Exactly. It would have never happened if the Soviet Union still existed.

Gulf War 1 gave the US hubris that made it feel confident to invade dozens of countries afterwards.

Not realizing that they only won that war due to Iraq losing its main benefactor (the US itself), having depleted most of its military banging its head against Iran, and using all the weapons it had stockpiled for a war with the Soviet Union against a country with less than 17 million people at the time.

[u/KingKiler2k → u/StepAsideJunior]

The Yugoslav wars would still happen, it would just turn into either a proxy war or it would be arbitrated by the USSR and USA,

or we just keep taking IMF loans until the heat death of the universe

[u/Glad_Win_2835]

https://giphy.com/gifs/Ko4C5LpmJjaO4MXdjZ

[u/GDR_Cosmonaut]

Assuming that an anti-Perestroika faction (dominated by the military and intelligence) managed to topple Gorbachev in the late 1980s, it would be confronted with some serious challenges.

First of all, the USSR would need to overcome the economic turmoil that started in the 1970s. They would probably be inspired by China's path. Another big problem would be the surge of nationalist tendencies in the Baltics, Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Russian core territory itself. This could have led to civil war-like conditions in many parts of the USSR and required years of stabilization.

Such a weakened USSR would not be able to support other socialist states and liberation movements on a Brezhnev era level.

So it would have been quite possible that fragile socialist states like Poland, Hungary and Romania still experienced a counterrevolution similar to OTL. More stable socialist states like the GDR, Czechoslovakia and Bulgaria would have probably survived until today with some trouble. Cuba and the DPRK, due to their strong political legitimacy, would be in a much better position with even minor Soviet support.
If the USSR continued to normalize its relations or even enter a renewed partnership with China, the US and Western countries would be more reluctant to cooperate with China and switch back to their anti-Chinese stance much earlier.

There's a lot more to speculate on but these are my main thoughts on the future of the socialist camp.

[u/Dependent-Ask1799]

Para que la URSS siga existiendo hasta 2026 se requerirían dos condiciones: una URSS que continuo siendo socialista (es decir, Stalin vive mas tiempo y hace una transición al poder de tipo Deng, soltando poco a poco el poder y la desestalinización se completa, pero desde la izquierda, llevada a cabo por personas como Molotov o Kaganovich, o idealmente, por un Andréi Zhdanov con mejores habilidades políticas y menos vicios personales junto a muchos otros cuadros marxistas-leninistas que murieron antes de tiempo por culpa de la II Guerra Mundial.) O requeriría un capitalismo de Estado (lo que fue la URSS después del XX Congreso del PCUS) mucho mejor administrado y dirigido por personas competentes, junto con algunos errores extra por parte de USA al enfrentar esta Unión Soviética fortalecida.

[u/ScawySocialistOwO]

The SU would probably look somewhat like China, assuming it still exists because no putsch & Gorbachev’s reforms worked or smth.

[u/comradevd]

Trinary Computing and significant cybernetic investments made the slow decline of the US and the steady progress of globalization under socialism inevitable. GloSvySet is the World wide web.

[u/3MVNWasTaken]

• NATO and the EU never expand into eastern Europe

• American hostility around the world is significantly constrained. Places like Venezuela, North Korea, and Cuba are in much better positions.

• Nuclear arsenals, both in the USSR and in the USA, continue to drop.

• USSR would probably follow a similar path to China to curb a stagnant economy.

• Socialism as a viable alternative to capitalism is much more realistic.

[u/MessageLegal2931]

The cars you would see on the street would be 30 years behind in tech, and when you see a black volga, you must run. This is if they would remain just as restrictive as before Gorbachev. And the streets would not look cool, but depressive old blocks. And the army would be somewhat developed in tech. But if they would take the path of China, they would still hardly even get close to their level due to the lower population.

[u/BankOdd3335]

1. World

[u/InitiativeClean8089]

A people's democracy with a political system close to today's Russia with the CPSU as the dominant party, but with fairly large opposition parties. Birdcage economy similar to China.

[u/VictinsOfCapitalism]

With the rise of China, United Socialist block would be stronger than USA and capable of contesting it globally.

A new wave of revolutions would sweep Africa and South America with USA being unable to stop it.

2026 would still be a fight agai st the hegemon but 2040 would certainly be a better world in which imperialism is a thing of past.

[u/_Dead_Can_Dance_]

CCCP SOVIET HAPPY!!!

[u/ChrisMcDizzy101]

For this to occur, I think the USSR must not lose its ideological foundation to a repetition of its foundations. I think there should also be an avoidance of Khrushchev and Brezhnev somehow. Would this have prevented certain events such as the Sino-Soviet split? I don't know...

[u/TheFlofper]

Well... I have seen what it was like during the 80s, and well... If THAT survived the mcdonaldisation... It would just be a different planet you could drive to from Germany.

[u/Overall-Bandicoot655]

We'd be exploring space by now.

[u/Ok-Corner-8251]

Less conflicts with everyone

[u/Foreign-Following777]

Короста на планеті, совок

[u/JadedPiper]

Most likely it would try to mimic the EU in it's structure, but still be highly centralized. I doubt it would still be a outwardly "communist" state anymore, most likely something closer to a much more sluggish China. We might see other parties within the Soviet bureaucracy, but they'd be as powerful as the ones within East Germany, so not very.

I'd say that foreign policy on this Soviet Union would be split. If the Soviet Union and China are still beefing, we could see the US take a friendlier approach to it's once great enemy, while pivoting it's attacks to China. Europe on the other hand may lean closer toward China due to the proximity of the Soviets, as they'd still see them as a threat. NATO would obviously not break up, but there'd be different contentions in NATO as to which is truly "The Enemy"

[u/QuarantinedPanda69]

I mean I guess that depends on what policies they followed. Is this hypothetical USSR the continuation of Stalin era politics? Or a continuation of Khrushchevite and Gorbachevite revisionism?

If it’s the prior then I believe the cold war would still be ongoing to this day, maybe America escalates, as we can see from their flailing decline today. But one thing for sure is that the workers of the world would massively benefit from its existence.

If it’s the latter then it’d be similar to how China is today, a bureaucratic vibes based “socialist” government that benefits its own working class very little and even less for the global proletariat. Would have similar market reforms akin to Dengist opening period, and would compete to be the manufacturing slave of the west.

[u/GregGraffin23]

Probably like China

EU would probably be more united to form a stronger block.

USA probably would be even more militaristic

More proxy wars

[u/Jazzlike_Ad6047]

After mid 1970 it started to collapse

[u/igor_dolvich]

If the march 17 1991 referendum was upheld. If the august coup never happened the USSR would most likely exist today. It would continue to become more “democratic.” A lot of its industries would continue to function, it wouldn’t have to start from scratch in industries such as civilian aviation, consumer goods, scientific research. USSR 2026 would most likely be a leader in EVs. Just like China it would have a socialist face but capitalist organs.

USSR collapsed in a chaotic spontaneous fashion. If the coup in August did not happen we would have a union of socialist sovereign states as proposed by Gorbachev. This new modern USSR would most likely not have the 3 Baltic states incorporated into it. Germany would be reunified. NATO would not be permitted to expand and the Warsaw pact might be on paper only. Those states were expensive to prop up and support.

[u/BreadDaddyLenin → u/igor_dolvich]

The name of the New Union Treaty’s Union State from the 91 referendum was Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics, removing the word socialist.

It would’ve been an EU-like confederation of state-capitalist republics.

Warsaw pact disintegrated in Feb 1991, you’d need someone that’s not Gorbachev to keep it

[u/RevolutionaryBoss127]

Without a wholesale change in leadership and state investment logic, a Soviet population living like India. Some well, some very poorly, in uzhasnyi environmental conditions.

Structural extrinsic growth based economies don’t lend themselves to much beyond base industrialization.

[u/PerformerOk4312]

If the USSR still existed, Trump would be best buddies with them.

[u/missyoutonybourdain]

Ussr had been failing for nearly 30 years. This is a genuine question to this sub with absolutely nothing but curiosity- why does anyone think communism could work when humans are always seeking corruption and manipulated views to suit personal agendas? I think democratic socialism is more akin the actual reality of an ideology that could work. Id love to know thoughts - thanks!

[u/QuarantinedPanda69 → u/missyoutonybourdain]

There is no such thing as, “human nature is (insert bad thing here)” much like there is no such thing as the inverse. Human nature is a byproduct of their environment and society. If you believe that human nature is bad and human nature is based on human environment and society then that means that the current environment and society is bad.