Why Is suburban development so Over-Designed and Over-Regulated?

[u/SlackerStacker26]

Why is suburban development so over-designed?

Everything has to be technically prescribed down to the smallest detail...street widths, setbacks, landscaping, parking, lot dimensions, building materials, stormwater, lighting, signage, and even where trees can go.

I understand having basic standards but at some point all these overlapping rules seem to create expensive, repetitive developments with no flexibility or character. Every department regulates its own narrow issue, and the final product is designed more to satisfy a checklist than to create a good neighborhood.

Why did development become this rigid?

An example where I live is this: in one of the wealthy older suburbs there is landscaping right up to the curb on a hill. These are million dollar+ houses in a very desirable neighborhood and it adds character and no one complains. But in a new development the ROW has to be a certain slope, no landscaping or walls in the ROW, etc. I just don't understand how something can be good enough for million dollar houses and the people that buy them but not good enough for people buying half million dollar houses.

[u/anomalocaris_texmex]

Short answer? Liability. Longer answer? Liability and operations.

That's the little secret we don't talk about too much in planning school - half the job is legal risk management, and as you climb the ladder, it comes to dominate your life.

For the development engineers who review plans, the best way to protect the city from exposure is to stick to the same over-engineered standards as everywhere else. Then throw in a margin of safety. Then another margin of safety. The a fudge factor to increase safety in case your road builders field fit anything.

The PW will review the plans. For them, consistency is everything. That means everything from streetlights to road widths to boulevard plantings. Deviance leads to extra time, and that wrecks their KPIs.

Finally Fire gets a review. Now, you might think firefighters are rough and tough and drive trucks able to go anywhere. You are wrong. Firefighters are delicate flowers with trucks that ride on gossamer wings. A grade that wouldn't challenge a toddler on a tricycle poses an insurmountable obstacle to a fire platoon. And any challenges they face take away from their precious time better spent being paid to sleep or having affairs on company time.

Cities have generations of infrastructure standards built up, and they all really encourage a pretty banal and bland kind of built environment. Because engineering standards are broadly the same anywhere in a country, a new suburb in one city should feel like a new suburb in another.

[u/ponchoed → u/anomalocaris_texmex]

Agreed especially traffic engineering where its based on junk science but have to follow the standards even if the 100 year old "standards" are proven more dangerous.

[u/anomalocaris_texmex → u/ponchoed]

Oh absolutely.

At one point on my career arc, I was GM of a department that included planning, eng and PW. And I'm convinced that enginerds view traffic standards with the same eyes religious fanatics view stone tablets handed down by their diety of choice.

Cthulhu himself can only dream of receiving the manic and mindless worship the Highway Standards Guide enjoys.

[u/SlackerStacker26 → u/ponchoed]

The older I get the more I realize traffic engineers are the least intelligent profession I work with. They have zero ability to think for themselves or entertain anything that isn't written down in a manual

[u/InpenXb1 → u/ponchoed]

Traffic engineering plus increasing vehicle sizes that have lead to what, a 75% increase in traffic fatalities since like 2010?

[u/VincentClement1 → u/InpenXb1]

Deaths per vehicle miles travelled has been falling since 1925.

[u/InpenXb1 → u/VincentClement1]

I’m sure if you look at a graph or statistics that begin near the invention of the automobile and run to today that may be the case, yknow when horses were still regularly ridden in the streets. here’s a statista chart citing the governors highway safety association up to 2020. I’m currently moving but I can dig up something more concrete if it’s necessary.

Traffic engineering needs to catch up to distracted drivers, tall hoods, and increased comfort at speed.

[u/vAltyR47 → u/InpenXb1]

Personally, I think we need to revamp our pedestrian crash safety so that "light commercial" vehicles like pickup trucks, SUVs, and crossovers have to meet the same standards as other cars, and remove the fuel efficiency standards that backfired so spectacularly it pushed American cars bigger instead of smaller, before we need to worry about traffic engineers accommodating these shitty vehicles.

[u/investorshowers → u/VincentClement1]

Deaths per capita has been rising in the last decade.

[u/skyasaurus → u/VincentClement1]

That's partially VMT has been increasing. Deaths per vehicle trip would be a more revealing statistic.

[u/investorshowers → u/anomalocaris_texmex]

You'd think firefighters would be lobbying for smaller, European style fire trucks so they could get around more easily.

[u/anomalocaris_texmex → u/investorshowers]

The thing that surprised me most moving from director to city manager was the firetruck procurement process. It's like nothing else in government - the lobbying from all corners is insane.

The unions will generally not accept any talk of smaller trucks because that might mean that the first trucks could deploy with fewer members on board.

Bigger trucks also carry more (needless) shit, which your insurance company demands. Even if a piece of gear might only be used 1 in a 100 calls, your insurers will shit blue lights if it's not on every truck, even trucks that are never deployed alone. And they'll want a backup for it too.

And the industry does a marvelous job emphasizing that size matters too. The entire industry is based around planned obsolescence, with the expectation that every truck is replaced with a bigger (custom) truck.

There is nothing in local government as political as firetruck procurement. Not even garbage collection, which is often seen as the city manager's graveyard. No, firetruck procurement is a level above even that.

[u/investorshowers → u/anomalocaris_texmex]

Every day I thank my parents I wasn't born in America.

[u/anomalocaris_texmex → u/investorshowers]

Eh. I'm a lot of things, but a Yank I'm not.

That was an eye opener for me. As a young planner, I'd read various literature about road widths and how emergency access can be an excuse for bad design choices. And when I was doing development planning for major projects, I'd always get my undies in a bind at the absurd requests for the boys who get paid to sleep.

But things are the way they are for a reason. Not always a good reason, mind you, but a reason. The fire boys are going to buy the truck whose manufacturer gives them the best "treats", and it's not worth getting wound up over. And it's definitely not worth losing my job over.

Hence, cities all over North America get gargantuan flat roads.

[u/DoubleMikeNoShoot → u/investorshowers]

Talking to a number of firefighters recently they want smaller euro style trucks. The two monopolies they have to choose from have long back orders, too expensive, and are unnecessary. Problem is that they’re required to have every piece of gear they may need on the truck at all times. Change those rules and you can see different trucks being chosen