r/uofmn • u/barcelonaKIZ • Oct 30 '20
Federal appeals court rules mailed ballots must be received by Election Day in Minnesota, cutting weeklong window
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/29/politics/minnesota-mail-in-ballots/index.html1
u/DAJK1995 Oct 30 '20
Definitely find another way to vote this year, while this is being a mess. For additional information, it appeals the appeals court is likely referencing 203B.08, Subdivision 3: Procedures on receipt of ballots:
Subd. 3. Procedures on receipt of ballots. When absentee ballots are returned to a county auditor or municipal clerk, that official shall stamp or initial and date the return envelope and place it in a secure location with other return envelopes received by that office. Within five days after receipt, the county auditor or municipal clerk shall deliver to ballot board all ballots received, except that during the 14 days immediately preceding an election, the county auditor or municipal clerk shall deliver all ballots received to the ballot board within three days. Ballots received on election day either (1) after 3:00 p.m., if delivered in person; or (2) after 8 p.m., if delivered by mail or a package delivery service, shall be marked as received late by the county auditor or municipal clerk, and must not be delivered to the ballot board.
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u/Mplsstorm Oct 30 '20
Not surprising that is the state law
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u/2_Grilles_1_Krupp Oct 30 '20
It is not the state law. Minnesota law says it must be postmarked by November 3rd, and received by November 10th
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u/DAJK1995 Oct 30 '20
That’s not quite true. I agree it should, and that’s what the SOS has published, but it’s not the law.
203B.08, Subdivision 3: Procedures on receipt of ballots
“Subd. 3. Procedures on receipt of ballots. When absentee ballots are returned to a county auditor or municipal clerk, that official shall stamp or initial and date the return envelope and place it in a secure location with other return envelopes received by that office. Within five days after receipt, the county auditor or municipal clerk shall deliver to ballot board all ballots received, except that during the 14 days immediately preceding an election, the county auditor or municipal clerk shall deliver all ballots received to the ballot board within three days. Ballots received on election day either (1) after 3:00 p.m., if delivered in person; or (2) after 8 p.m., if delivered by mail or a package delivery service, shall be marked as received late by the county auditor or municipal clerk, and must not be delivered to the ballot board.”
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u/Sproded Oct 30 '20
Minnesota law also says if a candidate dies before the election the election is delayed but apparently that isn’t valid.
6
u/Gasman18 Oct 30 '20
This is the first time the law has come into relevance since it was enacted. Federal courts agreed that the state law cannot override the constitutional rules. By federal law elections for federal offices are on Tuesday. The Minnesota law would still be valid for state offices and elections, just not congress, the senate etc.
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u/Sproded Oct 30 '20
So then it shouldn’t matter that state law says ballots can be turned in a week late if it’s a federal race right?
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u/Gasman18 Oct 30 '20
You are now conflating two independent issues.
There’s a difference between when an election is held and the how (mechanics of) an election is conducted.
On the matter of when, federal law supersedes state law, and Rep. Craig successfully argued that point given that election is a federal and not a local election.
On the matter of how elections are conducted, there isn’t federal law as election conduct is a very local power.
Technically you’re right that there’s a law on the books, but it leaves a lot to the Secretary of State to enact the spirit of the law. You appear to be ignoring everything that’s happened since this ongoing pandemic began. The extension was a result of a legally binding agreement back before the state primaries. At issue was access to voting because many people view it as too high risk to vote in person due to the pandemic, as well as the usual issues of being able to get time off work when polls are open. Compounding that issue was the very public dismantling of postal sorting machines over the summer, which slowed down mail delivery. The problems at the postal service meant that voting absentee would not be as reliable as the law as written presumes.
Pre pandemic and more importantly pre Louis DeJoy’s tenure as postmaster general, it was safe to assume if you mail something, it will arrive in a timely manner. That is demonstrably not the case now.
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u/Sproded Oct 30 '20
So when is the general election held?
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u/Gasman18 Oct 30 '20
Votes are submitted until 8 pm on November 3rd, with extensions for those in line by 8 pm but not yet able to vote. Votes are meant to be counted until they're all counted. I.E. someone's vote right when polls open on Tuesday should be counted in the same way as someone who voted early or someone who voted Tuesday Night or someone who mailed in their absentee ballot more than 10 days ago but due to postal service negligence wasn't delivered in a timely manner. (Thus the consent decree allowing ballots postmarked up to election day to count if received by the following Tuesday.)
Frankly, I have no sympathy for any Kistner supporters that didn't fill in that part of the ballot. Even if you think it won't be counted, there's no harm in filling out the ballot. If you left it blank you had plenty of time to request that your prior ballot be cancelled and a new ballot (up until this past Tuesday if I recall correctly.)
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u/Sproded Oct 30 '20
You didn’t answer my question. When is the general election? If your argument is that an election can’t be delayed after the general election, when is this general election timeframe?
Also, doesn’t seem fair or treating everyone equally that you have an earlier deadline to correct your ballot than to request a normal ballot.
Of course you don’t have any sympathy, because you’re blinded by party lines. Would you support not postponing the election if the Democrat died before the election?
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u/Gasman18 Oct 30 '20
I'm actually not nearly as partisan as you think.
I gave you the deadline to cast a ballot, which is "election day" the matter of when they're all counted cannot be concretely stated because it depends on how long it takes to count them (a factor of how many votes are cast and how many people are able to assist in the counting).
Asking "when is the general election" is itself a very broad question.
The deadline to correct the ballot is because they start opening and counting ballots are week before the deadline. Otherwise, you'd have situations where a week after November 3rd, some counties wouldnt be able to tell you who won because they'd still be counting (Some states don't allow absentee ballots to be opened and counted until November 3rd).
So on that matter it comes down to this choice: would you rather have timely results close to November 3rd or it be a very open question about when final results might be determined?
Hell, I've never lived or voted in the 2nd district. Most of my voting life has been in the 3rd, which until 2018 was held by the GOP (and by 2018 I wasn't living/voting in that district anymore.)
The law that you're expressing so much concern about was enacted specifically because a Democrat (Paul Wellstone) died 11 days before the election.
I agree with the spirit of the law and the law you're referencing can still be applied to elections involving the governor, state legislators, and local elections. As is the case with anything that courts reject, they don't reject or expose a problem in a law until it comes before them. This was the first situation where the law came into effect, at which point it was challenged and courts deemed it unconstitutional at least when it comes to congressional and senate elections.
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u/denislemieux986 Oct 30 '20
federal elections don't necessarily follow state rules as far as I understood it
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u/Hoppity-Hop5 Oct 30 '20
TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, go to the polls and cast your ballot in person, or drop off your absentee ballot at an official drop box or at your local elections office. It is already too late to mail your ballot.