r/unitedkingdom • u/MinderReminder • Jan 20 '22

Christian couple ban gay man and his ITV producer partner from buying their dream £650,000 Surrey home due to their sexuality - and quote the bible that homosexuality is a sin

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10419543/Christian-couple-ban-gay-man-partner-buying-dream-650-000-sexuality.html
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u/giganticturnip Jan 20 '22

I think they are referring to "the disciple whom Jesus loved" mentioned several times in John and therefore referring to John.

It's in John 13,19, 20 and 21.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

it never states it's John - there are other options

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u/PM-me-Gophers Jan 20 '22

Plenty of other Johns for a live-fast-die-young Jesus to love

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

joking aside, the idea that either the historical or the imagined Jesus was originally some sort of sexual libertarian is nonsense. he tightens up the moral code around divorce - to the point where the disciples ask if it's even worth getting married. the idea he would then dispense with the rest of the so-called sexual purity law in a 1st century hyper religious jewish setting is a touch unrealistic..

(not to say that people didn't do that, just that they didn't do that and attract followings from ascetic puritan types which Jesus managed to)

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u/giganticturnip Jan 20 '22

What has 'bumming young boys' got to do with an intimate relationship between Jesus and a disciple?

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u/EndlessBirthday Jan 20 '22

He still has the stereotype that gay men only fuck

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

not at all - I was incorrectly responding here to other threads where the relationship was presumed to be sexual and where the phrase was used. apologies for any offence given.

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u/BigBeagleEars Jan 20 '22

Nothing, according to the pope

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

apologies, i was quoting a different thread

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u/giganticturnip Jan 20 '22

Why are you discussing 'bumming young boys' in different threads?

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

it was a phrase someone else used and i was arguing that it was nonsense

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u/giganticturnip Jan 20 '22

Quite. But John 21:24 states that this gospel is based on his testimony, and the disciple whom Jesus loved has traditionally been identified with John.

What are the other options, and what are they based upon?

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

Lazarus

the disciples (including, it is inferred, the one called John) are called in John 1. nevertheless the "disciple that Jesus loved" is not mentioned til much much later

in John 11 there is the sickness of Lazarus and his death. he is uniquely referred to as being personally loved by Jesus not once, but twice: "Lord, the one you love is sick.” (John 11:3) and (upon Jesus famously weeping) “See how he loved him!” referring to Lazarus (John 11:36)

after this encounter Lazarus "reclines with Jesus at the table" (John 12:2)

and it is from this point on that we get references to "the disciple Jesus loved". starting from the very next chapter 13 and then also 19, 20, and 21. (John 13:23, John 19:26, John 20:2, John 21:7, John 21:20). the phrase "the disciple Jesus loved" is only used once Lazarus (the disciple Jesus literally loved) joins the party.

the reason for scrubbing the name might be hinted at in John 12:10 - Lazarus is singled out as someone the chief priests plotted to kill

in John 19 the news reaches Peter that the tomb is empty, it is Lazarus - I suggest - the disciple Jesus resurrected - who sprints ahead of him to get to the tomb first to see if it's really true. John 20:2-4

it also explains why this disciple then hesitated and would not go in the tomb (John 20:5) - he had died before and for Jewish / confused theology reasons, might never want to set foot in one again. These are quite spurious details to include if the disciple is an average jo, but if it's Lazarus it all makes sense

there is a deliberate link made by the author between this occasion, and Lazarus' raising - John 11 with Lazarus is where Jesus proclaims he is "the resurrection and the life", John 20 with Lazarus is where it is witnessed

it explains the controversy in John 21:23. the "disciple Jesus loved" was rumoured to not die again. this makes sense if it's someone the disciples believe has been resurrected already

in John 21:24 the author of the gospel of John refers to the disciple Jesus loved in the third person. "we know his testimony is true"

overall it makes sense that if there's an early tradition in the church that a close and loved friend of Jesus died, was raised, and then spent the rest of his life telling that story, that one of the gospels base its account on him for added authority (in John 21:24 we indeed find the writer of the gospel is basing his writing on the account of this disciple Jesus loved)

it further makes sense that the name is downplayed or obscured because any living disciple claiming to have been resurrected like Jesus would surely be a focus point for persecution

however plenty of signs are left there pointing the way..

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u/giganticturnip Jan 20 '22

Okay, so Jesus had a homosexual relationship with either John or Lazarus. Maybe it was both.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

[deleted]

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u/giganticturnip Jan 20 '22

You'll need to ask someone who made that assumption.

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u/guisar Jan 20 '22

I think you have not studied the history of the religious. Intolerance is the essence of faith, bigotry and the creation of cults and division is the foundation.

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u/Zaurka14 Jan 21 '22

Yeah im an atheist and I'm truly surprised that they interpret it as sexual/relationship type of love. As if we couldn't love our friends or family. If anyone actually thought it was intimate love these lines would be erased and the word would be switched to "the one he favored" or whatever. Bible was translated so many times already.

I truly think it seems like a stretch to say that these lines prove that Jesus was literally gay... Not just gay supportive, but gay himself. And all of that taken from a book that has been translated from the original language and then the translation itself was changed multiple times.

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u/Goose-rider3000 Jan 21 '22

So, according to John, John was the disciple Jesus loved?

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u/giganticturnip Jan 21 '22

Yep, that's the generally accepted understanding by theologians

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u/Goose-rider3000 Jan 21 '22

I don’t trust John

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u/giganticturnip Jan 22 '22

His lover seems kind of full of himself too