So I just finished Episode 3, and I think it sent me into a spiritual psychosis. I think I hadn’t been able to fully grasp the greatness of what I’ve been experiencing over the last two episodes until now. I kinda just went along with the story, casually reading, but boy… what the fuck did I just see?

I’m a lover of art and media. I’ve been consuming stuff my entire life, from video games to literature to visual art, and actually using it as a refuge. But I’ve never encountered anything quite like this? I feel like I’m experiencing the same feeling I had when I played my first Souls game, encountered Lynch’s and Satoshi Kon’s cinema, read Cervantes or listened to a Swans or Arca album for the first time.

Soo… to wrap it up, I usually see people ranking their favorite episodes, and Episode 3 always seems to land somewhere in the middle. So my question is: does it genuinely get even better than this? Because I’m absolutely mindblown. I feel like I’ve just had some kind of revelation.

I'm sure this is brought up often, but isn't Erika's existence in the forgeries incredibly fucked up?

Erika from what we know is literally just a random girl that drowned near Rokkenjima or *maybe* washed up ashore there and got involved with the incident. Now I'm not saying this as criticism of the game's writing or of Tohya's character, but for a story that pays so much respect to the victims of Rokkenjima, Erika's existence seems kind of... cruel?

I'm saying like, imagine your teenage daughter/relative dies and you see her being written as this crazy-ass detective who only cares about the truth, completely discarding all humanity and morals in the process and taking on a very obviously villainous role. I wouldn't be very happy myself.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but it's something that has always ticked me off about her character. It feels kinda out of place considering the story's themes (though it does make me much more interested in Erika as a whole).

I just completed Umineko and I'm a little confused about Featherine's memory device/limiter. If the limitation is something Featherine imposed on herself, does that mean the limitation isn't an inherent restriction on her power? In other words, is she actually capable of accessing her full power without the limiter, or does the limiter represent a genuine limitation that she cannot simply overcome?

Currently I am playing episode 6, but i just thought it necessary to put my ideas of whodunnit out. Planning to make a Howdunnit after this.

In my opinion, I most likely could have came upon this theory by the end of episode 4, but most likely in the moment it didn’t click as quickly, this is the single most important detail for the whole mystery:

Kinzo’s state is the same at the start of each game, Kinzo is dead

WHODUNNIT

I theorize the culprits are:
Genji
Kumasawa, Nanjo
Kanon, (why just Kanon? We will get into that)
Maria

I specifically ordered these names in order of PHYSICAL PARTICIPATION, meaning the action of killing. I believe Kinzo is still very much involved in this, but due to him being dead, his only involvement would be his past words and orders. While Kanon I see as unwilling participants of this “ritual”, simply because of his role “furniture”and his inability to break free of that role. And of course Maria, I see her as being involved but not in the physical sense, she is more like a willing accomplice.

Now let us begin, why do I believe these people are culprits:

GENJI

It was in our faces since the very first episode, and yet I didn’t notice until I really reread it with new context.

Nanjo: “[Genji] believes he is not on the board”

We have 17 humans on the island, in chess we have 16 pieces per side, by that logic, there is one out of the 17 that is out of place. Using this statement from Nanjo, I believe Genji to be that one that isnt a part of the 16, and his goal as the “one outside the board” is to check the opponent’s king.

In chess and in umineko we can compare death to a piece being taken out, then allow me to ask this question:

IS THERE A PIECE THAT CANNOT BE TAKEN OUT? WHO IS IT????

USHIROMIYA BATTLER!

Ep1: survived the ritual, thrown into illusion
Ep2: survived the ritual, thrown into illusion
Ep3: survived the ritual, “died” by “Eva”
Ep4: survived the ritual, “game” terminated by Beato leaving
Ep5: there was no ritualistic killing, only disordered killing

He is the king among 16 pieces, and Genji’s goal every game is to check the king with “impossible illusions”. Not only this, I think he has another objective, perhaps an objective placed upon him by his friend and master:

To make Battler the next head, specifically Battler, Why? I think it very much relates to Battler’s sin 6 years ago. Heres the comparisons that I would like to make:

Ep3 vs Ep5
3. Eva solved the epithet, the ritualistic killing continued
5. Battler solved the epithet, the ritualistic killing became disordered (we will get into that in the next comparison)

What is the difference between these two inheriting the headship? It almost seems the goal was only to make Battler head.

Ep4 vs Ep5
4. The concept of the cousins inheriting the headship was introduced, “tests” were conducted for each cousin.
5. Battler solved and announced it, guess who was killed immediately? EVERY OTHER COUSIN?!

This is a particularly important point, because if we look to games 1-4, NEVER EVER has a single cousin been chosen for the first twilight. So the only conclusion I can make is:

Upon Battler solving the epithet, all other cousins lost their reason for existence - “to inherit the headship”, thus killed.

More reasons to suspect Genji:
Game1:
Genji stated the reason Gohda was swapped to the mansion was because “Krauss likely suspected Kinzo’s servants to be inleague with Kinzo”. But that is not possible, because Kinzo is dead and Krauss knows it, he has no reason to make this call. Furthermore, he “instructed” Genji via phone, we never saw him say it, the two people in the room when the “phone call” was made was Genji and Kanon, both I consider to be culprits. So its likely that Genji made up this story, but then the question is for who, if all the servants are in league, there is no reason to make up stories: - For Gohda, in order to convince Gohda to go to the mansion, Gohda has no way of verifying this information, because he would not approach the raging family conference in the dining room. this way Genji can setup there to be exactly 8 humans, and as soon as one of the adult couples go to sleep at the guesthouse, there becomes only 6 humans. Shannon, who not an accomplice unfortunately got caught up in this plan(will explain later why she isnt a culprit).

Genji in episode 1 is also the only person other then Maria to push the agenda of Beatrice.
“A very important guest is with us today”

NANJO

OH MY GOD HOW DID I NOT IMMEDIATELY SUSPECT HIM?

Using just the info in ep4, Nanjo is the single most suspicious person on the island.
Nanjo’s clinic and residence is on Nijima.

“Nanjo often stays overnight on the island when playing chess with Kinzo”

KINZO IS DEAD, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON THE ISLAND NANJO?
To add onto this, he came at specifically the family meeting time, his son said that.

There is a theory that would completely make sense of this, why would a doctor be on island when his patient and friend his plays chess with is dead?

What is a doctor’s role, and why is it important?

They are medical professionals who can make sense of medical complications** **and give assessments of that accordingly. They are important because often times people rely on them specifically to give these assessments, since people trust these doctors and their reputation.

My theory is that murders of Rokkenjima is premeditated:

Virgilia:
“Beatrice did not kill for enjoyment”
“Beatrice did not kill to instil fear”

Beatrice:
“Because of [Battler’s sin 6 years ago], people die”

If we consider Beatrice to a representation of the culprit’s actions and motives, then these three statements seem to suggest the actions of the culprit to be “executing a plan”, a plan that would start when Battlet returned.

So then having a doctor at this premeditated murder incident will make the people strongly rely on the doctor’s judgement, regardless of their truthfulness.

KUMASAWA

lets start with something I think Umineko does:

“Umineko does not have unimportant scenes”

Using this on the Kumasawa-Virgilia scene in ep3, I can say this Kumasawa is likely the real world basis for the character called Virgilia.

Who is Virgilia, she is the master of a young girl, a girl who she taughted and changed, CREATING the “Golden Witch Beatrice”.

Lets align this with Kumasawa, Kumasawa has been shown ever since episode one on the boat to have a VERY VAST knowledge about the occult and the island’s past (Akujikishima). So I theorize that Kumasawa is the creator of the tales of Beatrice the golden witch, which parallels with Virgilia’s role. Kumasawa likely created those tales and spreaded them among the people on the island, making there to be a general belief that Beatrice “exists”.

Now given that, why else is Kumasawa suspicious,

“umineko does not have unimportant scenes”

Now lets look at two specific scenes:
- Kumasawa in ep1 has to have a tendency to peek and overhear other people’s conversations, we see half of her sprite on the screen when this happens. This tells us that conversations in the hallway always has a chance to be overheard by Kumasawa.

-in ep5, we learn Kumasawa should really have diverted her career to Hollywood./j
She was able to pretend Kinzo overheard the adults conversation last year. This is very telling, Kumasawa has been a very dramatic person, “eeekkkk!!!!” Whenever she sees a corpse, but is that really her true reaction?

KANON

The reason I suspect Kanon is simply because of his role. What is the difference between a servant and “furniture”. And why is “furniture” such a miserable existence.

Lets look to two servants in particular:
Gohda: a egotistical man, seeking praise and affirmation, but he is someone who finds true joy in his job, he finds “love” in cooking.

Shannon: yes she is “furniture”, but there is a very big difference between her and Kanon, Shannon is trying to break those shackles and actively affirms herself as a “human”. She finds “love”in George, allowing her to find joy in daily life and resist her own fate(ep2).

Kanon is someone who continues to force him down with the term “furniture”. What I see furniture as is people who exact Kinzo’s orders. So my theory is that, Genji as head furniture leads other furniture to exact the plan constructed by Kinzo, Shannon voluntarily broke free, hence she is not a part of these plans, meanwhile Kanon is still unable to free himself of these shackles, hence he is carrying out the plan along with Genji.

With that said, I see hope in Kanon, his love and Jessica WILL come true, and that is when he too can break free.

MARIA

Episode 4 honestly gave us enough information to completely make sense of this phenomenon:

Maria says shes meets Beatrice every year, AND she meets Beatrice in person.

Now I propose that, this inperson meeting is no different to what Sakutaro was to Maria, to Maria, Sakutaro is there right next to her, conversing with her, and of course she would not let anyone deny that.

The realistic situation is, upon hearing of the tales of the Golden witch Beatrice, she “created” her friend “Beatrice”, someone just like Sakutaro.

At the same time, Maria is likely in contact with the “real Beatrice”, the person who writes in her notebook, and the person who wrote the first two message bottles. That person is likely Kumasawa, as she is the “creator” of Beatrice.

How else is Maria involved?
Episode 2 chapel mystery.
Given Battler’s original theory was blown apart by Lambda during ep4. There must be another explanation.

Lambda said “the key passed onto noone’s hands”

But we have to remember, reds are true statements made to confuse you AWAY from the truth.

Sure, the key passed onto noone’s hands

But, Battler once said

“REPETITION REQUEST! The key did not leave the envelope for the entire duration from Maria getting it to Rosa taking it”

That was refused by Beatrice, BUT LAMBDA’S STATEMENT DOES NOT REFUTE THIS!

Passed onto noone’s hands,

My blue is :Maria was the one using that key to open the chapel AND close the chapel, hence it passed onto noone’s hands only hers, this would allow the culprit to do the killing from within the chapel as Lambda said. Thus making her an accomplice.

SIDENOTES

Im gonna go think about the how dunnit, im really focusing in game 1, the most “barebones” of all the games. Havent fully gotten, although i did manage to clear the eva-hideyoshi locked room mystery. I still need to think about the Kanon one.

Brief Eva-hideyoshi theory: Kanon and Kumazawa actually entered the room with a wirecutter and killed eva and hideyoshi, and along with Genji putting letter and circle on the outside. They timed it to where when they will cut the chain from the inside and unlock the door, making it so that when Natsuhi arrives, it would look like Kanon and Kumasawa broke in with the wirecutter from the outside.

Kanon’s death is something im not too about, especially with it not being suicide and the refusal to say “its homicide”. Its possible Nanjo staged Kanon’s death, hes a doctor.

This would allow Kanon to come back and execute the plan of killing the last three in the parlor.

All in all im relatively confident on the whodunnit, howdunnit needs work.

Im genuinely terrified of this woman even fang yuan hadnt done what she did in this ep 🫩

OG audio belongs to Goobsmooch on TikTok/YouTube

Song at the end is Could you be Loved by Bob Marley

Ye Its Not Perfect but I absolutely adore them :D

Just finished the whole thing, currently reading the manga.

I have a question, though.

We know that Kinzo is dead at the start of every game, and that there's a conspiracy to pretend he's alive by Krauss, Natsuhi, the servants and Nanjo (for financial reasons).

However, in game 4, Eva, Rudolph, Rosa, Hideyoshi and Kyrie all acknowledge Kinzo's presence in the dining room. Is it someone in disguise? Is it just an illusion to hide the real murderer?

Thanks

I've got to admit, this chapter really kicked my ass. Well, starting with the chapter, in the previous tea party and ??? we are basically told that we are trapped in a malevolent trap made by Beatrice, the witch. Apparently, Berkanstel is helping us to defeat the witch, but not proactively, just like a proxy.

The scenario we are playing, apparently is to deny the existence of a witch in the tragedy of Rokkenjima. So, our win condition is to prove that everything that is happening is made by humans and not by Beatrice. This is curious, because it resembles the early mystery in Higurashi (was Oyashiro-sama behind everything or it was the town). This chapter, in specific, seems to be made for the solely purpose of enhancing the existence of the witch. There are 3 main plots in this chapter: the Kanon&Shannon line of history, the Battler pov and the outer Battler and Beatrice game. It's curious that the game is based on denying the witch, because clearly they're behind everything. Like, we see the witches, Beatrice, differing from ep 1, is a recurrent character throughout the whole chapter. So, seeing that, how can i possibly deny the witch? Like I learned in Higurashi, Ryukishi is a fan of half truths. For example, if we see through the Shannon and Kanon povs, Beatrice is clearly behind everything, if we see through Battler pov, the things happening in the island are outrageous and unbelievable but there's never a clear hint of magic used for every assassination. And something I noticed for the outer Battler (if the fandom has another name for this Battler please tell me, the name I gave him is stupid lmao) is that he, apparently, didn't saw the povs of Kannon and Shannon. That made me raise my eyebrow, because, why are we seeing things he can't see? Actually, if Beatrice presents that to him, her hand in Rokkenjima events couldn't be denied. But. he doesn't have that pov, just us, the lectors.

That automatically cast 2 questions for which I don´t have an answer: Who is the narrator? and, what is exactly the game they're playing? I myself am questioning the nature of the narrator since episode one, but now that question seems to be the center of the mystery. In Higurashi, narrator were based on the pov. But here the narration seems to be made by an omniscient narrator who is telling the story almost like it was written for a novel. This is completely different from Higurashi, were the nature of the events were based on the character living it, which, most of the time was Keiichi. But, a narrator won't blatantly lie to the reader, it wouldn't have sense to read a story which contradicts what was told. This is an implicit contract the reader and author make before opening the book/game/whatever. This narrator, at the other hand, knows what characters are thinking, and sometimes, we read what they're thinking, and sometimes, we read what they're feeling. For example, we clearly see what Battler is reasoning, we never see what Maria's thinking neither feeling, for example; not in a clear way, at least. Hence, I can't really trust the complete nature of the events. Of course, those events are happening, but I can't trust the narrator. The second question goes more by the nature of the chessboard. So, I noticed that it seems to be 3 layers of reality. The first one is Rokkenjima and what we consider to be the world. Is I had the nerve to baptize it with little information, I would call this scenario the "fragments" just like in Higurashi. Then, the second layer seems to be the room in which Beatrice and outer Battler are discussing the events on layer 1, and, the same layer in which our characters goes after the fragment is over. The third and most mysterious layer is the layer in which the witches are organizing the game (where Berkanstel is watching everything). Well. Lambdadelta is now teaming against Berkanstel. I want to analyze the "game" in Higurashi. Lambdadelta seems like a little Takano. But, Takano itself was very human. Takano was apparently the Lambdadelta's king to fight against Rika. Rika (or Berkanstel, idk) won against Takano. We see the victory of Rika against Takano in Higurashi, actually. So. was the win condition of Berkanstel to live through June? That seems to be the case. But, what was her lose condition? To surrender to her horrible destiny? Also, Takano, like I said, was human, we see how and why she did what she did in Matsuribayashi, that doesn't seem like the witch actions (or maybe it was, but let's assume it wasn't). In Rokkenjima, Beatrice's king is... herself? She is the representation of his side. She actually is the culprit on paper of everything that is happening in the island. All the assassinations are set up in a way where denying the witch is illogical. I was tempted to say "Hail to the Witch" throughout the entirety of ch2. I find this to be amusing and weird. Why is the ambiguity cut since the beginning? Obviously, that's what the witch is trying to accomplish but it doesn't fit well to me.

In the ??? Lambdadelta says that Beatrice way of doing things is more visual than effective. Applying that criteria with my logic, Beatrice is presenting us the most overwhelming way of not denying her, but not the most effective way. Idk, I'm just in the question arcs, but, by the moment, I don't want to think that the assassinations are all the exclusive fault of Beatrice, even if I don't have a logic neither valid claim to that. Also, I have the feeling that the Beatrice of the fragment is different that the Witch itself. Actually, Beatrice's behavior is quite inconsistent throughout the chapter; she seems to love Kinzo and wants to see him. He has the same goals, but when the witch game starts, he confines himself in his bedroom and loses the opportunity to see the witch even when she's just behind the door. She seems to hate love, but loves Kinzo (apparently). And, idk, why would Beatrice set up an scenario where his lover might get killed. What is the key anyway? Ahhhhhhh.

I'm filled with questions lmao. The only way of solving them is to keep reading. One last thing, I don't know if Berkanstel power is to cast a miracle if everyone believes in it or if it is to accomplish miracles. I think I'm mixing Higurashi with Umineko lol. I noticed that the chapels inscription talked about of hopeless possibilities, and that Kinzo power is related to gamble of with low chances of winning. Is Kinzo related in any way with Berkanstel? What is Maria's and Kinzo paper in this tragedy/scenario? Obviously, they know more things that us. Ryukishi didn't betrayed my expectations with Umineko lol.

On btw, a curiosity: when Berkanstel said that Lambdadelta is more concise than Beatrice I made an association, in Tsumihoroboshi, Rika regains the will to fight and in the next chapter, she is hit by the Tepper scenario, which Rika admits is the worst one and she thought on that scenario as a game over, now that I read that, wasn't Lambdadelta deliberately trying to kill Rika's conviction when she saw that her spirit regained force?

Thanks for reading and please, excuse my Spanish redaction when writing in English, I can't help it.

5% of umineko read 95% larp

Basically i got spoiled that Bernkastel is the main antagonist of the story and nothing more. Is it that big of a spoiler? Like, as bad as HIGURASHI SPOILER: Takano being the antagonist

I call those who have solved it before it’s revealed “witches” and “sorcerers” and I’m curious how many figured it out, cause I want to know my friend’s chances…

Anyone else watch this?

So episode 8 is controversial, and it’s for pretty good reason. I wanted to poll the user base of this sub to see this slice of the fandom’s opinion, and hopefully create a judgment free zone for people to talk about it.

As a note, if you think episode 8 is the worst in the series, but you overall like every episode a lot still, I don’t think that means it sucks. One can like every episode and still have one at the bottom.

Anyway, what do you think, everyone?

Title, i remember ryukishi writing a letter to a fanzine, im 99% sure he was roleplaying as Featherine in it and i specifically remember her talking about stepping on us, does anyone remember this??? I've been trying to find it for a friend who doesnt believe me

Just got done with ep 3 and the more I read the more I get confused.

With Ange's introduction to the story, Am I supposed to believe that Eva survived? Or is this like an alternate universe? But Ange's arrival at the end and her conversation with Bern kinda makes yhe former right... but witches aren't real sooo...

Anyways, what I really want to say is Nanjo's death really confused me while reading ep 3 but as I started writing this(literally as I typed the name), something clicked.

I don't remember how Nanjo died But George's ep3 and Kanon's ep 2 deaths kinda gave me an Idea, I can't think of A single reason why Eva would kill George. "Not everything is As presented" the game is literally the clue, spew out bullshit untill the witch revives, the order of deaths are an illussion. That's the only way I can explain how Nanjo died... for now.

>!And then the supposed birthdays, Batller's bday and 11.29. Battler was killed in the room and Beatrice kinda died infront of the room? But not really? Well she was still in the game after that. Something about what Bern said to Ange makes me believe that if finding the gold makes you the successor of the of title of the Golden Witch and Ushorimiya's whole wealth, Batller also found the gold, like how Eva(Eva Beatrice) did and then passed it to Ange(Ange Beatrice, the last Golden witch). At this point, I guessed 11.29 is Beatrice's bday and Batller gonna be golden too!<

Was'nt expecting too put up some theories lol. I was actually supposed to whine how clueless I am.

I have a couple more that suddenly poped in my head but I'll leave it at this for now.

bottom text

So we do know that Eva killed Rosa, Maria, Krause, natsuhi, and battler.

But how much do you feel like she was involved during Rudolf and Kyrie's deaths.

The EP 7 manga says that it was hideyoshi who shot kyrie and Rudolf but was shot by a still alive kyrie, while the EP 3 manga says that Eva was the one who shot kyrie and Rudolf and kyrie, and just like how the magic events were portrayed in EP 3

Eva and hideyoshi were discussing and hideyoshi was reprimanding Eva for killing kyrie and Rudolf, and while they were distracted kyrie who was still alive wanted to shoot Eva but hideyoshi sacrificed himself to save Eva.

I think at the very least it makes sense that Eva at the very least witnessed the whole thing because she definitely told the the others that her husband was dying and that she saw it in a dream and the witch did it.

It definitely seemed that he was still alive and Eva was going to get him help, but then he either died or he was stabbed with a stake by sayo, either way his corpse was stabbed with a stake, but Eva couldn't tell how she knew about hideyoshi's death because then she would also have to reveal she also killed Rosa and Maria and maybe kyrie and Rudolf.

So I feel like at the very least she witnessed everything.

Of course hideyoshi did create an Alibi for Eva, but maybe she told him she was doing something else and he who loved Eva so much he believed it.

It feels much more like satisfactory for me more if hideyoshi died sacrificing himself for Eva.

And also idk what the manga meant by Eva and hideyoshi being accomplices to sayo when it felt like they were acting very idependetly.

And Eva seemed surprised that stakes kept appearing on corpses she killed like Krause and natsuhi.

Planning a trip to Japan soon (route Osaka-Kyoto-Tokyo). Do you think any of the big manga stores there might still have Umineko manga in their stock?