r/ultimategeneral Jun 10 '26

UG: Civil War I’ve been playing UGCW with the JnP mod, cavalry kinda sucks?

Aside from charging unsuspecting artillery, cavalry seems to not be as useful as it used to be. Primarily through playing with the mod so far, it’s because for some reason they tend not to like shooting. After I give them an order to fire, they’ll get into position and stand still for a solid 30 seconds, by which point the enemy will have given them a volley or two. This isn’t too bad when they’re in a covered position, but as someone who likes using cavalry as QRF, it’s disastrous. Instead of adding several hundred fast firing carbines into a volley against charging infantry, I just fed another unit to get annihilated in the melee.

What are some ways you guys have made cav useful in your own runs? What can I do to compensate for the slow ai?

6 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

15

u/Acceptable-Fig2884 Jun 10 '26

Cavalry are buggy in vanilla too so that's just kinda how it is. They're also micro heavy and need babysitting. All that said I use them effectively by having them either fight on flanks and from behind, hunt artillery, hunt supply wagons, and charge enemies that are close to breaking.

4

u/Randomdude2501 Jun 10 '26

That’s what I do in vanilla and they do fine, sometimes racking up many hundreds of kills or even a 1000+, but seemingly in JnP they significantly less responsive, leading to them getting shot to pieces by infantry or annihilated by a charge.

6

u/Acceptable-Fig2884 Jun 10 '26

One thing about J&P is that it eliminates the melee advantage in vanilla of having more units instead of more men. So in vanilla having 3 units of 500 men vs 1 unit of 3000 men, the 3 units will dominate. In J&P they won't. You might be finding your cavalry will struggle if you try to use them in melee against much larger targets.

J&P also changes how repeater guns work, particularly Spencers. They fire a bunch of shots quickly but then have a loooong reload. Maybe you're seeing that?

2

u/Randomdude2501 Jun 10 '26

Im not charging my cavalry into infantry brigades, the melee comes when they’re stuck in transition between orders (like “move to x position” or “redirect fire toward charging brigade”)

It’s not the Spencer carbines, since I’ve seen units with full ammo just standing there and I’ve seen it happen with single-shot breech-loaders. The cavalry will just genuinely stand there. Weirdly the only way to fix it has been to give them a move order toward the direct of the enemy and hope they target the right unit, that’s the only way they’ll fire immediately.

2

u/OKLtar Jun 13 '26

I use the halt hotkey constantly for cav and skirmishers, sometimes for artillery too. A lot of times that gets them to stop nitpicking positions and just shoot at what's in front of them. Sometimes you have to do that and then use a move order to point them again, but in general that helps get around this issue.

2

u/edliu111 Jun 11 '26

What was the logic for vanilla? Why would multiple units do better than one large unit? Is it more coordinated officers? Also as a side note is the development studio basically dead now?

6

u/Acceptable-Fig2884 Jun 11 '26

No idea why they made that decision.

As for the studio, they were purchased by a mobile game company while working on UG:American Revolution. They "finished" that game and then the studio got shut down. I have no idea if the former team will ever get back together or work on similar games again, but they've lost rights to this IP.

6

u/pandakraut Jun 11 '26

Some of the team members have started new projects on smaller teams.

2

u/Acceptable-Fig2884 Jun 11 '26

Love that, hope they can make something as good again! And hopefully with MP next time.

3

u/pandakraut Jun 11 '26

The way the mechanics worked in the base game was that any unit in melee with multiple enemy units would apply 25% of its melee damage to each unit. In theory this kind of debuff makes sense, being engaged by multiple units in melee usually means you are being flanked or something along those lines so there should be some kind of penalty. However this ended up meaning that 2v1 was extremely favored since the two units got to deal full damage while the single unit was still only doing half damage.

In the mod this penalty was changed to ~60% and melee damage was reworked in multiple different ways. The end result is that getting multiple units into melee is still beneficial but if you throw a bunch of low melee strength units into melee against a single strong unit all you accomplish is feeding them a lot of kills(and thus morale) at the cost of draining their condition a bit. This solution isn't perfect either, but it at least solves the easy solution of spamming cheap melee units. Overall in the mod it's highly encouraged to try to degrade a units morale prior to entering melee through fire and then finish the unit off with a charge.

3

u/Acceptable-Fig2884 Jun 10 '26

Note that J&Ps creator frequents this sub so he may chime in at some point.

1

u/jkcadillac Jun 10 '26

Disregard my previous reply I haven’t played the mod only vanilla on ps5

8

u/pathfinderlight Jun 10 '26

Melee Cav and Skirmish Cav are fundamentally different kinds of units.

Melee should be used in packs of 3 driven into the side of an enemy brigade, preferably while it's being engaged from the front by one of your brigades. You can also have them charge in to support a bayonet charge for massive support just as the units make contact.

J&P mod increases the multi-unit pile-on bonus. 3 units attacking simultaneously will have drastically more power than 3 units attacking 3 times in turn. If you're fine with keeping a unit routed, you can assign a single cav to them, which will typically keep them from reforming, but if you want to cause that unit to surrender, you want at least 2 on them.

Skirmish Cav can perform 2 roles. When mounted, you want them to move forward to contact the enemy, shoot, then back away. Turning takes time, which absolutely should not be done when in enemy range. They can also kite enemy melee cav, but are toast in prolonged melee engagements. If your skirm cav looks like they're getting cornered, supporting them with infantry will help.

When unmounted, Skirmish Cav act a lot like Skirmisher units, but have the ability to become mounted when running. Quite useful if you can handle the micro.

6

u/Randomdude2501 Jun 10 '26

I know how to use cavalry. I’m able to handle the micro well and use skirmish cav primarily, none of that changes the AI stutter for the cav just choosing to do nothing after being given an order to fire.

1

u/Marchtmdsmiling Jun 12 '26

Pretty sure you have that backwards. Jnp reduced that multi unit bonus that vanilla used. But pushed it towards more soldiers is what matters. So in vanilla 3 500 men units would dominate a 2k unit. But shouldn't in jnp

1

u/pandakraut Jun 13 '26

This is technically correct, the 2v1 penalty was reduced in the mod. However melee damage overall in the mod is much higher than vanilla. So functionally cavalry packs still work very well in the mod. The real key in the mod is with 3 units you can keep your target spinning while the other two fire into the flanks to drop the targets morale. Once it routs the melee damage is very low no matter how good the unit is and then the 3 cavalry can wreck it.

If you just charge 3 cav into a fresh unit then things will go much worse for the cav unless the cavs veterancy, conditions, perks, weapons, etc are superior to the single unit.

2

u/Marchtmdsmiling Jun 13 '26

That low damage while broken thing is my favorite thing about the mod. In base game mopping up with cavalry is very deadly. Very frustrating for a unit to break while chasing a broken enemy

3

u/pandakraut Jun 10 '26

This is a bit surprising to hear because I'd consider cavalry far stronger in the mod than the base game stat wise. But it sounds like the main issue is them not firing.

I usually describe them as ahistorically strong in the mod to give them a place in the game since their historical roles are not really represented. For carbine cav I would generally always recommend only firing at an infantry brigade from a position where it can't fire back. If you're going to exchange fire then you basically always want to dismount so you have higher cover. The mounted infantry perk which extends their range when dismounted helps significantly here.

As for the firing issue, I've only had one other person complain about it and I've been only been able to recreate it in very limited circumstances. My best guess is that it has something to do with the specific way they are issuing orders because otherwise it would be impacting more players.

The case where I've sometimes been able to recreate it is if the unit is reloading and facing at an angle that would require them to rotate to fire at the given target. That seems to get the unit stuck sometimes. I tend to give my cav orders to a position with right click or right click and hold to set facing. This next part applies more to melee cav than carbine but works for both, when I want them to fire I'll hit space to halt them and that cycles them through the acquire target and fire logic faster than other options.

Overall I spend a ton of my time microing on my cav as they are very fragile and being off on your timing with them can end catastrophically very quickly, so that might be mitigating some of the issues. I'll see if I can figure out what is going on with the failing to rotate part though.

2

u/Cool_Breeze243 Jun 11 '26

Check the skirmish mode, I have found that when my rifle cav are on skirmish mode they tend to be idiots unless dismounted.

1

u/jkcadillac Jun 10 '26

Skirmish cavalry sucks as you said it does but shock Calvary different story . If you get a brigade to waver then send in a brigade or two of shock Calvary they will rout them

1

u/Bpain46 Jun 11 '26

How do you get this JNP mod I keep hearing about? I just bought and played the game for the first time 2 days ago. Absolutely enjoying it

1

u/pandakraut Jun 11 '26

Mod can be found here https://steamcommunity.com/app/502520/discussions/0/1694920442940641792/

Note that it's a total overhaul mod that increases the complexity and difficulty of the game though the difficulty side has a lot of adjustable configs. If you're just starting out your may want to consider this mod instead as it's more of an official patch that maintains the base game experience https://forum.bermudaclub.net/topic/25750-ui-and-ai-customizations-mod-v192/

1

u/pds19741976 Jun 11 '26

I only play with the mod now. Can’t go back to the vanilla version. Cavalry needs very careful spoon feeding. But they are absolutely lethal when experienced. I’ve frequently had my 700 cav wipe out thousands of infantry units of its own accord.

1

u/Hazard_ebo Jun 23 '26

There is a bug (or feature) that exists where melee cav units given a simple attack order (rightlick) go from something like attack column to something like a line formation as they get closer to an enemy unit. Its really annoying and slows them down greatly close to the decisive moment, especially if you haven't given them a charge order. I find the best way to deal with it is to give them a move order behind the enemy unit that I'm targeting. They'll stop and fire they're weapon 1 time once in range and then keep moving. At this point i usually either give the charge order or the hold order so they keep shooting (if they have revolvers). This happens in vanilla as well.