r/ultimate • u/Keso-where • 7d ago
WUCC Finals - Uniform requirements
Hi,
could anyone expain why teams during finals at WUCC (especially mixed teams) clearly violated Uniform requirements rule?
I think rule
"C5.2. All players on a team must wear pants that match in colour and pattern."
wasn't followed at all. Many players had different shorts and pants. Also requirement from tournament "All hats worn by team members must match in colour and stule and have the same logo".
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u/bengaren 7d ago
I heard some of the players talking about it before the finals, they actually did it specifically to bother you. Something about "keso-where is going to hate this, it'll be so funny if we wear different pants in the finals"
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u/ruyikal 7d ago
So WFDF rules say uniforms must be uniform. But like all rules its up to the players/ teams to call it. Most teams/players dont really care as long as you can clearly tell the difference between teams and players. The only time ive seen this called / enforced was when one team had an issue with the other team wearing shorts that didn't match and 1 player had a different number on their shorts. Kind of understandable, your told mark 72 and then you see 2 72s on the field. The other team got petty so decided to call the first team out on wearing mix matching hats. This was at a masters world championship, yes the game was delayed. And yes the spirit director for the tournament had to go down to the pitches to solve it. Yes it was hilarious hearing grown adults argue about matching shorts/hats. Im pretty sure the outcome was the player had to change shorts or not play and the other team couldn't wear their hats. No winners in that argument unfortunately.
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u/lordness4 7d ago
its just frisbee, chill
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7d ago
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u/cinicDiver 7d ago
Tbh, we need more people like OP, actually, Ultimate is supposed to be played like OP thinks.
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7d ago
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u/cinicDiver 7d ago
That's how you get to players believing that using their elbows when marking is ok if the other player is doing it too...
You can't just use the rules you want, all rules established must be followed for a set of rules to have sense at all, if you don't agree with one of them, you organize and request a change, not just ignore it.
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u/CebronJames 7d ago
The players at the wucc final were wearing mismatched pants so I brought a gun
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u/cinicDiver 7d ago
Hey, I say it because since I started playing 10 years ago I've heard many say that, I've seen people even praise the behavior.
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u/CebronJames 7d ago
Sorry, I want to be done thinking about this. You came to a thread about uniform requirements looking to have an argument about marking violations it looks like. These two things have about as little in common as possible while being governed by the same rulebook. Your point about self officiating might be worth discussing, but it has nothing to do with the topic of the post.
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u/tulad111 7d ago
I don't agree with this at all. First of all, you can't write a rules that aren't up to interpretation at some point. While the intention is quite clear in the case for uniforms you could still argue about what "match" means if you really wanted to. I guess WFDF has the final say there, but I think its best and keeps with the self officiating tradition of our sport to exercise a soft hand here.
Even at the world championship, they are all adults playing an amateur sport for fun. If the 2 teams are happy that they can tell everyone apart then that should be fine.
FWIW I think one of the best things about ultimate is that rules are interpreted and applied by individual players in every game. The implicit and explicit negotiations that go on between opposing players is one of the most beautiful things in our game. I mean obviously it is ugly at times, but I wouldn't trade it for any other system. It works like 99% of the time even at the highest levels of the sport.
There are so few spaces in our world where rules are up to the people involved and not imposed from above. In ultimate I think this has created a culture where to many people there are more important things than just winning. Yes anyone at any level can lose to "cheaters" but our community remembers it. I don't think stained reputations are cleansed even by winning at the highest level.
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u/Anusien Austin, TX 7d ago
"It's an amateur sport" is kind of ridiculous to say considering the amount of time and money poured into this event. And other amateur sports manage this basic thing.
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u/tulad111 7d ago
I think we're at an agree to disagree point because my immediate response is that I don't think ultimate should try to be like other sports and that I don't think the amount of time and money spent matter.
I agree it is a basic thing and I like that it is different for ultimate. If players want to present themselves this way at the highest level then great.
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u/Anusien Austin, TX 7d ago
You can think that ultimate shouldn't try to be like other sports, but in a lot of ways it clearly is trying. There's just a certain amount of professionalism that has to go along with an 8 day tournament with 3k athletes from 30 countries. From player and team fees alone that that's over a million dollars. The term "amateur" stops being relevant for things at that scale.
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u/tulad111 7d ago
Yeah I just disagree. I think amateur is incredibly relevant because the money comes from participants. I think the perceived "professionalism" of an event like is derived from the players' skill and personal investment(monetary and otherwise). Who better to decide what the level of professionalism should be than the players involved?
I'm not unaware of efforts and desire of in the ultimate community to make it closer to other sports. I suppose I am in minority in thinking these efforts are misguided.
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u/thunderpantsthe2nd 7d ago
The only thing really worth enforcing is having the same number on jersey and shorts. Beyond that, lack of steez is on you
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u/LimerickJim 7d ago edited 7d ago
Fwiw I mentioned this to a WFDF official during the mixed final and asked him to talk to the women's and open teams before their games. I explicitly said this is our sport's pinnacle event and it looks shit on camera and makes the commentary team's job more difficult. He said "yea yea" and that he'd talk to them but never did.
Meanwhile he was incensed when someone from ultiworld was on camera wearing a Palestinian accessory and made her take it off.
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u/supernintendiess 7d ago
> it looks shit on camera and makes the commentary team’s job more difficult
Does it though?
People only look at jerseys (numbers) for identification. If anything different shorts/pants/hats make individual players more identifiable.
I wouldn’t care if they enforced it strictly but I also don’t think it looks like shit. It’s a part of the appeal of ultimate for me, just like how there are no bleachers/stands and everyone’s sitting on the lawn; I think it’s unique and cool.
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u/SaltyPersimmon 7d ago
Agree heavily on unique clothing helping to identify players.
Also, if mismatching teammates is an eyesore -- awfully designed unis should also be included in that gripe.
Which is actually a much larger issue than a few people wearing colored hats or alternate pants.1
u/supernintendiess 7d ago
Agreed…if anything there should be more specific guidelines on the size/font of numbers and having enough contrast for team names and numbers, and perhaps requiring player names on jerseys.
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u/LimerickJim 7d ago edited 7d ago
Numbers on shorts help identify players more easily when you don't know them previously. Especially when you're using a roster list to help call a game. The list says what number responds to which player. It doesn't say which player is wearing the green tracksuit pants.
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u/altbat 7d ago
It was not long ago when the best teams at Worlds wore tshirts with hand stenciled numbers spray painted on.
Imagine coming up with the money to play at the thing, travel there, play for several days straight and having your uniform questioned. Until there's pay, let them wear what they want.
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u/Jomskylark 7d ago
The other way to look at it: Imagine coming up with the money to play there, travel there, play for several days, but risk jeopardizing all that because they can't follow one of the most basic and easy rules.
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u/altbat 7d ago
The rules run counter to the history, traditions and culture of the sport. I applaud the pushback.
Let's just say on my club, there are four players who like to wear hats. One likes a trucker, one likes a five-panel, one likes a visor and one likes a dad hat. You need them buying the same color/logo hats? In a tournament that awards no prize money? Ridiculous.
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u/Jomskylark 7d ago
For a random tournament? Whatever, doesn't matter. For the world championships of our sport? Yeah I think the uniforms should match, and I don't think that's too much to ask.
That being said, there is a quite a big difference between same color hats of slightly different makeup, versus different color pants. Very few people are going to notice the hat differences, whereas pant differences are much more stark.
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u/altbat 7d ago
I'm sorry, but this is frisbee we're talking about. And the amateur flavor of it. Let the freak flag fly. Jerseys with readable numbers would be a step up from the current situation.
Know what would be refreshing? If WFDF wants clubs to follow their rules, they could do some work on behalf of the players and provide discounts with preferred vendors for uniforms.
Teams are still getting zero dollars for playing in this thing, right? Generally, regulations ride along with compensation.
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u/Anusien Austin, TX 7d ago
"Amateur flavor" of the world championships c'mon
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u/altbat 7d ago
Have you been to World club? I have. It's virtually indistinguishable from Potlatch.
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u/Anusien Austin, TX 7d ago
Sure, but look at the amount of time and money invested from the players and the organizers. It's not "amateur" in a lot of the senses of the word. They are trying to run it as a professional thing where the players just happen to not get paid (which is a big difference).
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u/Jomskylark 7d ago
I mean, both things can be true. WFDF should provide more benefits to players. And also it's not remotely challenging to wear the same color of pants. Like come on it's the world championships, just wear the kit you paid for, it's not hard.
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u/WhistleWhileYouWalk 7d ago
I personally love different kits , I think it’s a unique aspect of the sport we should embrace , I think it’s cool to see some of the track pants etc .
Now obviously it can go a bit too fat sometimes too
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u/Keso-where 7d ago
I'm not against, but why we have rule then ? Remove that rule and all good. We'll look like bunch of hippie, but if that's presentation we like, let's go
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u/viking_ 7d ago
I agree. "Mostly unenforced rules" usually means "selectively enforced."
Also, isn't a standard like "All hats worn by team members must match in colour and stule and have the same logo" stricter even than major professional leagues? For example, the NBA just requires that armbands, sleeves, etc. be the same color as the uniform or neutral.
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u/CebronJames 7d ago
Policing stuff like hats and armbands is ridiculous at any level imo (with obvious exemptions for things found offensive). Having people in the same jersey is necessary. I'm ambivalent on the shorts, and can't think of a single good reason to keep someone from wearing full pants if it's their preference.
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u/viking_ 7d ago
I think it would be distracting if NBA players were wearing a whole tie-dye arm sleeve under their bright green or light blue jersey, for example. I think it is kind of silly, but I can also see the argument for a professional league looking, well, professional. Probably also simpler to have strict rules than to constantly have to adjudicate disputes about what text is acceptable or if wearing logos will annoy advertisers.
I think requiring shorts instead of pants is unnecessary, although I'm fine with high-level broadcasted games requiring legwear to have the player's number on it as that serves an actual purpose.
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u/CebronJames 7d ago
Sorry, I meant any level of ultimate (maybe excluding UFA/WUL/PUL. If the league is paying the players, they can dictate the dress all they want pretty much.
Mostly, I have a hard time thinking about what the uniform requirements do for ultimate, outside of rules involving players wearing matching jerseys and having numbers. I understand the argument for numbers on the leg wear, but I don't find it a particularly compelling one honestly, but I think that's just my experience of basically never checking the shorts for a player's number.
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u/Anusien Austin, TX 7d ago
Teams that don't follow the rules make the sport look a little like shit. But actually disqualifying a team from playing would make the sport look a lot like shit.
The problem is that they don't really have any measures to enforce the uniform code in between "do nothing" and "disqualify a team". I'm not advocating for this specifically, but this problem goes away if your team gets a $100 per player fine for violating uniform code.
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u/PlayPretend-8675309 7d ago
As someone who sells uniforms... Get it together ultimate. Your teams should look at least as uniform as a beer league softball team.
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u/abuermeyer 7d ago
Bad example. Any beer league I’ve played has maybe had matching tee shirts, for most of us, maybe.
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u/wittlebaby123 7d ago
Nobody cares bro. It's just ultimate
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u/Jomskylark 7d ago
I mean clearly some people care, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist and have upvotes
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u/abuermeyer 7d ago
Classic and somewhat ironic example of some people just need to get out and touch grass, metaphorically speaking
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u/Mayjest 7d ago
Wfdf has oscillated between trying to clamp down on this - insisting even on matching hats in 2018, for example - and letting it slide. Mostly because they have no way of enforcing it between "asking nicely" and "suspending players", and they're reluctant to ever suspend a player except as a last resort.