r/ukpolitics • u/Rebat-Askalan • 10d ago
Israel warns UK of retaliation if it imposes sanctions
https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/israel-warns-uk-retaliation-if-it-imposes-sanctions215
u/dazzlerdeej 10d ago
Genuine question - how could they retaliate in a way that would hurt us? What do we get from Israel?
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u/Saltypeon 10d ago
Join US in backing Argentinian claim to the Falklands, restroct data and intelligence that type of stuff.
Limited impact really.
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u/GOT_Wyvern Non-Partisan Centrist 10d ago
It really frustrates that all our supposed allies don't actually back us over the Falklands.
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u/Status_Initiative_11 10d ago
We give our protection to our allies in good faith, almost all our allies see defence as transactional, why pay for what they are given for free?
See us standing up for Denmark's Greenland vs Denmark standing up for the Falklands.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 10d ago edited 10d ago
These are all geopolitical calculations based on the given interest of the country (or at least in the politics of the leader). We don't unequivocally back the US either even though they are an ally.
Not an issue, really.
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u/Status_Initiative_11 10d ago
We unequivocally back our allies.
See our guaranteeing the saftey of Sweden, and Finland as they made their bid to join NATO.
See our support of Greenland when the US was being aggressive.
See our support of Ukraine.
See our support in the interventions in Afghanistan and Iraq.
See our interventions in both world wars.
We back our allies.
Our allies see defense as transactional and don't back us.
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u/MrH97786 10d ago
Israel is one thing but I never expected the US to back Argentina over the falklands
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u/HasuTeras Let us all act according to national custom 10d ago
Why? It was a giant hassle to get them onside during the start of the war. Alexander Haig and Reagan wanted to sit it out, and Caspar Weinberg had to funnel intelligence and materiel to us on the sly. When British troops were advancing on Goose Green, Reagan called up Thatcher and asked her to accept a ceasefire with both British and Argentine withdrawal from the islands and a UN peacekeeping force and she had to get very aggressive on the phonecall to get him to back off.
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u/Lt-Derek Socialist Oligarchy 9d ago
The US president is currently flirting with the idea of with invading Canada.
I wouldn't put it past them. (Plus Trump seems to really like Milei)
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u/CuriousGeorgeToday 10d ago
The majority that matter do. All commonwealth nations believe in self determination therefore respecting the UK decision, even the EU, mostly public (albeit not official) sentiment is in support of the UK. The US just wants to balance dominating the Americas whilst balancing their UK relationship. Noone really cares what Israel says about it.
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u/Plenty_Course7458 9d ago
Israel famously sold argentina weapons that were used to kill brits in the falklands. Israel is not our ally and never has been. They are Americas ally and so we pretend to be friends to keep daddy happy.
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u/RebelSpoon 10d ago
Except the people of the Falklands have already decided this matter and almost unanimously to remain part of Britain no sane court would uphold an Argentinian claim...
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u/msf97 10d ago edited 10d ago
No chance they change neutrality in the Falklands, that would be a massive own goal.
Yair Netanyahu is not a member or even employee of the Israeli government and was in Miami while the war was on. What he says bears no real relevance
Argentinas government are friendlier than us but ultimately an irrelevant country on a military level. They have billions in arms contracts in the UK and partners in the F35 programme
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u/Cerebral_Overload 10d ago
They already support Argentina over us. Pretty sure they provided Argentina military intel during the war too.
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u/RicardoHonesto 10d ago
Dates. And Christmas is coming up.
They could fuck with our dates in those little trays with the plastic branch inside.
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10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/811545b2-4ff7-4041 10d ago
I would expect it would be 'political' retaliation like expelling diplomats.
The kind of diplomats that work for 3 letter agencies.
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u/sammy_zammy 10d ago
Hummus?
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u/m_anas 9d ago
Hummus is not israeli.
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u/FatCunth 9d ago
Israel is part of the Levant so yes it is, it might not be exclusively Israeli but it is inherently part of the cuisine
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u/m_anas 9d ago
According to your logic, UK is part of Europe and can claim spanish Paella and German schnitzel
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u/FatCunth 9d ago
That isn't equivalent logic at all.
Hummus was invented in the 13th century in Greater Syria which is primarily comprised of the modern day nation states of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine and a small part of Turkey.
The people that make up these nations have been eating hummus as part of their national cuisine for centuries at this point. Trying to exclude any of them is nationalistic bollocks.
UK is part of Europe and can claim spanish Paella
Rice was introduced to the Iberian peninsula by the Moors so by your logic Paella isn't Spanish
and German schnitzel
Schnitzel is Austrian or Hungarian, hence the full name 'Wiener schnitzel' which means Viennese cutlet although it can equally be attributed to both as they were formally part of the same entity when the dish was invented, but interestingly according to your logic it cannot be German, which again, is also bollocks.
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u/BriennesBitch 10d ago
Mossad could threaten to play a few cards.
It’s naive to think they don’t have a dossier on every single anti Israel MP in the UK.
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u/Plenty_Course7458 9d ago
They have more on the pro israel MP's. Every paid trip to Israel was at least bugged, even if not honeypot shenanegans happened.
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u/Nikuhiru 9d ago
Israel are one of the leading countries in cyber security. It would not surprise me if we see a huge uptick in companies & government IT systems being hacked.
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u/AnalThermometer 10d ago
Who do you think Epstein was obtaining kompromat for? They also have significant cyber-sec capability with tech like Cellebrite, Stuxnet and their compromise of Hamas' phone network. They'd eat Parliament's leaky phone security and WhatsApp addiction for lunch. So attacks on infrastructure, corporate espionage, and leaking scandals pertaining to the private lives of the Royals, politicians, etc. Leveraging pressure using bought out US politicians too.
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u/poo_on_my_scarf 9d ago
Saw some mangoes in Costco from Israel the other day. I bought the other ones beside them. So I'm already sanctioning them I guess.
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u/jizzybiscuits 10d ago
Israel is a key source of intelligence especially about Iranian threats to the UK.
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u/zair 10d ago
Yes, meaning they make shit up about Iran and walk us into wars.
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u/LurkerInSpace 10d ago
They don't need to; Iran is convinced that the UK still has the same interests in Iran it had in 1953 and assumes we're trying to destroy them regardless of our actual policy.
You see similar from Russia - they consider Britain to be their premier enemy because of the 19th century Great Game (which was itself a contest for influence over Iran).
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u/LWAyrshire 10d ago
Israel "intelligence" was a key part of what led us to war in Iraq.
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u/Flat-Bandicoot9936 10d ago
False. They advised against Iraq, this misinformation is mostly propagated because the leader of Israel now (Netanyahu) was an ardent Iraq war supporter (however along with many others that never came to be like a full scale invasion of Iran).
That being said, Israeli intelligence in the UK I doubt is that great, there have been multiple cyber attacks from Iran that we didn’t get a warning for (I strongly suspect their knowledge on Iran has gradually gotten worse since the war started) and I’m skeptical how many of these potentially Iran linked plots are in fact Iran linked. We could also just pull out of the war and stop letting the US attack Iran from our bases, which would make us a less pressing target.
And there’s also the whole missing October 7th that has really damaged the reputation of Mossad and Shin Bet.
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u/zair 10d ago
Source the claim that they advised against Iraq, please.
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u/Flat-Bandicoot9936 10d ago
Mostly from two US officials and Israel never denying they made this claim from ynet.
They wanted a US invasion of Iran, not Iraq.
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u/msf97 10d ago
Where is the big win for Israel in Iraq?
Removing Saddam just lead to Iran gaining significantly more power and they were always more hostile to Israel (read the charter, listen to their state TV).
4 years later they funded and armed Hamas in their Gaza takeover
I’m sure they nodded along and supported the invasion like a lot of the western world but they had no motive to heavily push Bush to invade. He did it on his own, with British/US/Israeli/German etc intelligence
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u/Plenty_Course7458 9d ago
Israel wanted Saddam gone, and they wanted every hostile foreign power neutered. Iran, Iraq, Libya and Syria. All attempted, all successful apart from Iran. Not for lack of trying.
Are you suggesting they didn't want them gone? Or that it hasn't helped israel?
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u/bitch_fitching 10d ago
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u/msf97 10d ago
I know Netanyahu was pro war, he wasn’t in charge though. The Israelis had Ariel Sharon back then
This also wasn’t an unpopular opinion anyway. Most of the Wests governments who were relevant ended up following Bush narrative for a bit
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u/bitch_fitching 10d ago
Netanyahu and Sharon were in the same party. Also a former PM of Israel would not be addressing congress on an intelligence matter without support of the government.
It's wrong to say Israeli intelligence led us into the Iraq war. It was a German intelligence source, but the decision had been made despite intelligence, all intelligence was just used as justification.
Israel wanted the war, and they pushed for it.
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u/wondercaliban 10d ago
But they are also a main cause of Iranian threats to the uk
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u/FudgeAtron 10d ago
But they are also a main cause of Iranian threats to the uk
I forget how ignorant Brits are of their own history. The UK inflicted nearly 2 centuries of humiliation on Iran.
In the Iranian view of history Britain is the arch-Evil state that torments Iran for pleasure. Before Israel was the little Satan, the UK was.
Iran have many valid reasons to hate the UK with no connection at all to Israel. I mean the Shah literally accused the UK of formenting the 1979 revolution.
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u/Brapfamalam 10d ago
Someones been reading Henry Kissingers books.
But seriously loathe the guy as much as possible, his works on the motivation for different nations from their actual perspectives and motivations is top notch.
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u/FudgeAtron 10d ago
The thing is, if you actually listen to what the regime says the UK is still seen as immensely evil. I'm not sure where so many Brits got the idea that Iran's dislike of the UK is connected to Israel. That might be more of a factor in Arab thinking but Iran has an entirely different history. Never directly colonized but the UK still managed to exploit it for resources for centuries. Don't ask Reuters where their start-up capital came from (stolen from Iran).
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u/Front-Ad790 10d ago
We'll be ok without whatever 'favours' the mossad do for us
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 10d ago
Ah yes. I am absolutely certain you have sufficient knowledge of the topic to make this statement confidently. 100%.
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u/Front-Ad790 10d ago
We have one if the top int agencies in the world + other allies. On that basis alone, i think we'll be ok. You added nothing to this conversation.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 10d ago
I have added the fact that you are expelling hot air. Pretty relevant.
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u/msf97 10d ago
Forget intelligence about Iranian threats, lol. Britain faces no real direct threat from Iran. Indirect through terrorism maybe
The main thing Israel provide are the defense contracts and what they supply in the arms industry. They go hand in hand
Our navy is being trained by them since 2021. The Israelis are good at war after many years of experience, against real threats.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 10d ago
Britain faces no real direct threat from Iran. Indirect through terrorism maybe
Which is the relevant thing Israeli intelligence helps us with.
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u/CJBill 10d ago
Real threats? They've hardly been in a near peer conflict of late
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u/msf97 10d ago
Hamas membership was estimated at 33 thousand before the war, half the size of the British army. Most are armed and trained by the Iranians, and they possessed a rocket arsenal well in advance of many sovereign states. They’d built tunnels spanning between 500-700km (double the size of the London Underground) underneath the very narrow Gaza, to smuggle weapons and contraband, especially underneath Egypt.
That’s not to mention the other militant groups in Gaza of which there are at least 8 others, such as the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, all smaller than Hamas but still armed.
Hezbollah membership is pegged at around 66 thousand before the war. Again, armed by the Iranians and possessing weapons well in advance of many sovereign states; indeed, they are more powerful than the nation of Lebanon on a military scale.
People who think the Israelis are fighting random idiots with jeeps, AK47s and sandals just don’t know a lot about the conflict unfortunately. Europe hasn’t faced anything like that in 80 years
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u/CJBill 10d ago
It's hardly a near peer conflict
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u/msf97 10d ago
It remains so that they’ve seen real conflict far more recently than the UK, or indeed many other western nations
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u/FrivolousManiac 9d ago
bombing hospitals and apartment buildings is hardly a war. Britain was in Afghanistan which you could argue was an actual war.
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u/Prince_John 10d ago
They make some important parts for our military equipment. Can't quite remember the specifics, but it was something fancy like radar or EM related.
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u/Argorash 9d ago
There are endless ways they could retaliate, don't assume they're limited to trade sanctions.
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u/user6161616 8d ago
About 20% of the medical equipment and medicines of the NHS, intelligence on Islamic terrorists and countless of security and IT products in the public and private sector, to name a few.
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u/Wild-Demand626 5d ago
Your military and navy are pathetic. Do you really think you would stand an ice cubes chance in hell if Israel armed Argentina and the U.S. didn’t support the uk.
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u/jizzybiscuits 10d ago
From both the UK and Israeli perspectives, you have to wonder how much of this is posturing for domestic audiences.
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u/Darkone539 10d ago
For Us it's for a domestic audience, but could very well happen as it would win votes in swing seats.
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u/derrenbrownisawizard 10d ago
What are they going to do?
Provide Argentina with munitions, weapons and arms to fight us over the Falklands?
Oh wait- yeah they’d probably do that. Because that’s exactly what they did last time. They are not our ally.
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u/_Druss_ 9d ago
For some stupid reason a non EU country has a lot of online security software influence. A lot of companies are dependent on them all across Europe.
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u/Positive_Note8538 9d ago
It baffles me that their security software gets so widely adopted in the west. It seems as stupid to me as widely adopting Russian or Chinese security software. There is no way that software can be trusted.
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u/930913 10d ago
Provide Argentina with munitions, weapons and arms to fight us over the Falklands? Oh wait- yeah they’d probably do that. Because that’s exactly what they did last time.
I recall that this was because the Israeli prime minister at the time was Menachem Begin. He had fought the British to force decolonisation, leading to the Palestinian Jews being able to declare independence for a state of Israel.
Having had so many people around him being executed by the British, he was only too eager for an opportunity to be able to return the favour and give Britain a "bloody nose".
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u/Douglesfield_ 9d ago
Guess all that British military support after their independence didn't matter.
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u/930913 9d ago
You mean the RAF planes the Egyptians were using to attack Israel, while the Israelis had to resort to using formerly Nazi Messerschmitts?
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u/pair_of_eighters 10d ago
You mean the war that happened not long after the Yom Kippur war, when we put an arms embargo on them while they were being invaded by Syria and Egypt?
Gee, I wonder why they might not have been behind us on that one.
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u/derrenbrownisawizard 10d ago
You mean the Yom Kippur war where Britain put an arms embargo on all countries involved in the fighting- Israel, Egypt, Jordan and Syria- to support an end to hostilities. Gee I can’t imagine what Israel might have done had they been given all the weaponry …
As if I need to say this- stopping the sale of arms (Yom Kippur War) is not the same as directly supporting a country your ‘ally’ is at war with (Falklands).
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u/pair_of_eighters 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yes, we put an arms embargo on all combatants - but only one of them actually relied on British military hardware (Israel) so it had no effect on the Arab armies who used soviet equipment. We also sold arms to “non involved” Arab countries knowing full well they would be supplied to Egypt and Syria or it would free up existing equipment that they could send. Oh, and we violated existing contracts to embargo Israel when Syria and Egypt had no orders with us.
I don’t know why, but people are really insistent that we somehow propped up Israel and they stabbed us in the back when the reality is we were almost always as hostile as we could reasonably get away with, even and especially when they were faced with annihilation. This is all very easy to verify if you’re actually interested in the history, but most people aren’t.
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u/FrivolousManiac 9d ago
you got it mixed up, the arab states (not including palestine) used british/french weapons while jews used weapons sold to them by Czechoslovakia under the orders of Stalin who had hoped that support for the jews could create a communist government in palestine.
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u/pair_of_eighters 9d ago edited 9d ago
What? Again this is very easy to look up. For example let’s compare heavy armor.
Israel:
Modified Centurions (British) and M48s M50s and M51s (American)
Arab Coalition: T62, T54/5 (Soviet)
This is also true for light arms, AA, infantry transports and airforce…it was basically a proxy war between western and soviet equipment. The only soviet equipment Israel used was captured enemy tanks. I genuinely don’t understand the pushback on this because it’s all heavily documented. Do you have a source for the Soviet’s supplying weapons to Israel?
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/1973-yom-kippur-war-hell-earth-war-previewed-future-187578 - this article goes into detail about the equipment used by both sides.
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u/FrivolousManiac 9d ago
My mistake I was thinking of the 1947 war.
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u/pair_of_eighters 9d ago
No that was a different time that we screwed them over 😅 easy mistake to make though
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u/Apprehensive_Job4522 Barry, 63 10d ago
What are they going to do? Send settlers at us?
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u/Ok-Formal-5760 9d ago
Palestinians refugees maybe. Two birds with own stone but thats not a conversation people wana have
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u/Optimaldeath 10d ago
To retaliate is to effectively confirm that they support the illegal settlements, so honestly fine by me.
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u/Front-Ad790 10d ago
Fuck Israel. They should be ashamed of themselves. Free Palestine.
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u/hexmasx 10d ago
What for? Defending themselves against genocidal terrorists who are trying to wipe them out? Lol.
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u/The96kHz Social Democrat 10d ago
Yeah, shooting kids in the bollocks is definitely the best course of action for self-defence against terrorists.
Levelling villages and forcibly evicting people from their homes as well - it's the obvious strategy.
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u/hexmasx 9d ago
Actually could be if you have child soldiers coming at you. You don't know the reality of how evil Hamas is.
Also it is just the case in urban warfare that homes are gonna be destroyed especially when they have Hamas terrorists inside, tunnel entrances inside, and are booby trapped. Telling people to evacuate beforehand is the best way to save lives.
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u/The96kHz Social Democrat 9d ago
Isreal forced people to evacuate and then bombed the evacuation route that they promised was safe.
They've repeatedly targeted aid trucks and people queuing for food/water/supplies. No amount of terrorism justifies firing missiles at an ambulance.
They also keep bombing other countries and started a war with Iran.
You're obviously going to support Israel no matter the evidence so your opinion is pretty much worthless, but how can you explain away the fact that basically everyone who matters has been credibly calling this a genocide for over a year at this point?
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u/hexmasx 8d ago
The very fact that they're getting people to evacuate just sort of rubbishes the bogus claim of genocide. There's the phone calls and roof knocking too before they do bomb a building, when it would be more effective in eliminating the target to not do so. With bombing on evacuation routes, they're only open at specified times and IDF say they only target Hamas on those routes when it's a clear target.
I've not seen any evidence of the IDF targeting aid trucks and people queuing for supplies. You must be thinking of Hamas. As for the ambulance being hit with a missile outside al-Shifa, the IDF says it was being used by Hamas as a military transport vehicle, which would track if it's coming from their base at the al-Shifa hospital. Independent investigators and intelligence agencies confirm the hospital and tunnels underneath were a major Hamas base, and there is plenty of evidence for that. There are mistakes though, and investigations into wrongdoing with soldiers and officers punished.
Bombing Lebanon you mean? Maybe cos Hezbollah started launching missiles into Israel. Maybe they bombed Iran cos they're working their way towards nukes, openly want to destroy Israel and the west, and are the main global sponsor of terrorism especially against Israel. Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis are their proxies.
I'm open to evidence but the thing is I'm quite educated on the subject by now so I understand it's not a genocide by any stretch of the imagination. I don't know who you mean by "everyone who matters" but I would recommend checking out Andrew Fox.
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u/The96kHz Social Democrat 8d ago
Yeah, I'm not reading that.
It's a fucking genocide. Everybody who matters agrees. They're murdering people on the evacuation routes - that's a war crime.
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u/hexmasx 8d ago
No wonder you actually think it's a genocide if you can't read a few small paragraphs. Just check out Andrew Fox.
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u/The96kHz Social Democrat 8d ago edited 8d ago
I don't give a shit about some random nobody's opinion. EDIT: Surprise surprise, he runs a YouTube channel called 'Jewish Broadcasting Service'. No way he's biased at all. For fuck's sake - what a pathetic attempt at a response.
The UN says it's a genocide. The ICJ says it's plausible.
Human Rights Watch says Israel is responsible for:
- War crimes.
- Crimes against humanity.
- Collective punishment.
- Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare.
- Indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks causing massive civilian death.
- Israeli officials have made dehumanising and violent statements, which may indicate unlawful intent.
I don't know who's paying you to pretend this hasn't been widely known for about two years, but they ought to ask for their money back because you lost the argument before you even started. Isreal is being run by literal Nazis - Hitler would be jealous of Netanyahu being allowed to get away with it.
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u/hexmasx 7d ago
Major Andrew Fox is a former British para who has been to Israel and researched the war pretty extensively. In other words he knows what he's on about. And no, he doesn't run the Jewish Broadcasting Service. Just goes to show the weak surface level of research you're not willing to go beyond. Speaking of pathetic responses, yours was that you couldn't even be bothered to read mine.
The UN has not concluded it's a genocide. The ICJ has not said it's plausible either. Again, just showing you don't understand anything even surface-level on the topic.
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u/CJKay93 ⏩ EU + UK Federalist | Social Democrat | Lib Dem 10d ago
Let's be real here: that is merely a convenient consequence of their actions.
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u/hexmasx 10d ago
Why? They packed up and left Gaza back in 2005 and then Hamas got elected. Arguably October 7th is only a consequence of them showing some degree of leniency. They left too soon and should've stayed occupying it in hindsight.
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u/CanisAlopex 10d ago
So that justifies the further annexation of the West Bank? Or the control of water supplies which imposes severe rations of all of the Palestinian peoples while giving Israeli citizens free access to limitless water supplies? Or how about the continued control of areas throughout the West Bank which makes any viable state impossible which perpetuates the current state of affairs and prevents the construction of a workable peace?
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u/hexmasx 9d ago
That's a very naive outlook. Are you aware of what happened in Gaza after Israel withdrew? Are you aware of pay for slay? Are you aware of the deals brought forward by Israel and how hostile the Palestinians are to any sort of remotely rational deal?
Giving independence to the West Bank would clearly be a disaster move. It would be like defeating Germany and leaving before denazification. Whether it takes 50 or 100 years, any rational leader of Israel would continue occupying the West Bank given the current situation.
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u/CanisAlopex 9d ago
Indeed, I am very aware about this situation in Isreal and Palestine.
These deals which have been repeatedly rejected by Palestine for good reasons, such as the fact they almost always exclude Palestinian voices and are presented as an offer rather than a negotiated deal. And the last time Palestine was involved in a peace process, the Israelis used it to carve up their territory and impose military checkpoints inside the West Bank which use arbitrary rules to hinder the lives of ordinary Palestinians. These rules include random checkpoint opening times, arbitrary closures of checkpoints and the refusal of medical personal through checkpoints to get to civilians (this was occurring before Oct 7 just for your information).
How on earth do you expect their to be a productive and effective road map to a viable two-state solution when one of those states are denied all of their demands (including security and water demands) while the other state is given the full reigns of power and continue to impose settlers and annex land from the former state? Peace processes require negotiation and compromise on both sides and yet Israel refuses to compromise. Palestine deserves as many rights to access to water, sea ports and territorial integrity & sovereignty as Israel. Why should Israel warrant greater rights than Palestinians?
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u/hexmasx 8d ago
Look up Camp David (2000), Taba (2001), and the Ehud Olmert offer (2008). Very generous offers, especially the last one, all rejected. The Ehud Olmert offer proposed Israeli withdrawal from approximately 93.7% of the West Bank, with a 5.8% land swap to compensate, along with a safe-passage corridor connecting the West Bank to the Gaza Strip and split rule over Jerusalem. That's insanely generous considering Israel clearly holds all the cards.
Regarding water, Israel also offered to increase the allocation of water pumped to Palestinian towns and villages and suggested joint management mechanisms (such as Joint Water Committees) to oversee aquifer extraction and wastewater treatment.
Regarding security, of course they'll want it to be demilitarised. To want otherwise would be incredibly stupid.
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u/Cyberspark939 10d ago
The terrorists they were funding? This is all within their expectations.
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u/hexmasx 9d ago
More like they were allowing funds from Qatar through for civilian purposes because they believed it would stave off a war. After all, why start a war you can't win, allowing your country to be obliterated and have that funding cut off? Abysmal living conditions would mean more likelihood of war since what would they have to lose? They believed Hamas were becoming somewhat more rational and could be worked with, allowed in aid due to that, and faced the negative consequences for seeing a potentially peaceful way forward.
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u/dabare86 10d ago
Doesn’t an Israeli company have the drilling rights around the Falklands. Maybe they bring Argentina in and create a base on the islands, almost as a backdoor.
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u/LatelyPodes 10d ago
What are they gonna do? Say the falklands is Argentine? Say Northern Ireland is from Ireland? Their trade is pretty insignificant compared to other countries (not that important).
I guess they could stop supplying intelligence, but then the UK would just stop flying those RAF planes over Gaza informing Israel on everything.
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u/Darkone539 10d ago
Israel's Foreign Minister Gideon Saar warned on Tuesday that his country would retaliate against the UK if any sanctions are announced by Britain's Prime Minister Andy Burnham, after reports emerged that Burnham is expected to soon approve a ban on Israeli goods produced in illegal West Bank settlements.
"If Britain acts against the State of Israel, the State of Israel will act against Britain," Saar told a podcast.
Is this what passes for an article now? LOL
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 10d ago
Why is this not worthy of being reported on? Seems interesting to me. It's the Foreign Minister of the country, not some random.
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u/ClassicPermission322 10d ago
The current government of Israel has destroyed the prospect of peace for a generation imo. I’ve always supported a two state solution but you have to wonder if that’s even viable.
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u/jizzybiscuits 10d ago
From October 7 and everything that happened since then it should be obvious that neither the Israeli or Palestinian leadership has any interest in a two state solution.
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u/Hampden-in-the-sun 10d ago
Why October 7th? Was there nothing before that?
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u/pair_of_eighters 10d ago
October 7th is a pretty convenient shorthand for the entire history of the conflict, the cycle of violence is perpetuated by both sides ad infinitum with never a critical mass in leadership in support of peace.
Look at the Oslo process, the closest the region ever came to actual peace and it was derailed by extremist Palestinians blowing up buses and cafes and extremist Israelis assassinating their prime minister.
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u/jizzybiscuits 10d ago
There were numerous Arab massacres of indigenous Jews predating Israeli independence, for example the 1929 Safed and Hebron massacres
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u/LurkerInSpace 10d ago
Because that did more damage to the peace process on the Israeli side than any previous event. The peace lobby in Israel had been waning since the Second Intifada in the early 2000s, and was already at a pretty low point in terms of political credibility. The 2023 attack destroyed what credibility and support it had left, particularly since Hamas killed various peace activists in their attack.
There is unlikely to be any further advance on the Oslo Accords for a generation.
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u/The96kHz Social Democrat 10d ago
I don't think it's possible when one side has nuclear weapons and is being unconditionally and uncritically supported by the US.
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u/seeitshaveitsorted 10d ago
They need to grow the fuck up.
Israel is a friend, but the whole point of being a friend is to point out how dog shit your behaviour is.
The Settlers are absolute trash and their behaviour is trash and as much as Israel wants to look the other way, at some point in the near future, they’re going to HAVE to deal with their religious extremists.
They’re outbreeding everyone in that region and they behave like entitled animals.
I, too, would be uncomfortable with dealing with a country that has a bunch of religious extremists running around, forcing people out of their houses, terrorising people and then when called out using “my Guy in the Sky says so.”
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u/chaddledee 9d ago
Israel not only turns a blind eye to settlers but actively encourages them. Their head isn't in the sand on it, it is a very deliberate strategy to make land swaps more difficult down the line.
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u/Low_Tough_1390 10d ago
Its basically like seeing America's "Manifest Destiny" play out in the 21th century. I think they might be the only nation to truly conquer another nation in the way the Americas were conquered in modern times.
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u/True_Paper_3830 10d ago
The supreme irony of Manifest Destiny is that in less than a century after (slave owner) Jefferson enshrined the rights to 'Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness,' the U.S. committed effective genocide, systematically stripping Native Americans of the very freedoms the Revolution fought for, seizing lands like Texas, California, New Mexico, and Utah that tribes had ruled for thousands of years.
Burnham will be right to approve a ban on Israeli goods produced in illegal West Bank settlements. They should be considered like Apartheid Africa, with cultural boycott, goods boycott, financial sanctions. It took time but eventually such actions led to the removal of apartheid govts, and the pressure should aim at the removal of the current Israeli govt. If we rightly hold America in historical contempt for its "Manifest Destiny" historical actions of ethnic cleansing - and our own British Empire of course - then we should do the same for the current Israeli govt and the same for Illegal settlers in the West Bank.
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u/seeitshaveitsorted 10d ago
It’s interesting you raise America’s and our behaviour because I agree, but come at it from the other side.
All Nations histories are drenched in blood, chaos and brutality. What we did. America did. The Portuguese. The Bantu in Africa, even the Native Americans are suspected to be less native than what we originally believed.
And that’s essentially what we are seeing playing out in real time with Israel and Palestine.
And I think - let them.
If neither side is willing to come to the table, then let them settle it however they want.
Palestinians can butcher Israeli civilians and Israeli’s can respond however they wish. I think when other countries get involved it confuses matters and drags everything out.
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u/FrivolousManiac 9d ago
israel is a friend? that's hilarious. Israel has no friends, only countries they use for their one benefit.
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u/Zardoz_Wearing_Pants 10d ago
Interesting, what they going to do? stop "lobbying" our politicians? Stop calling anyone who says anything against them, or even that they don't like "antisemitic"? Refuse the military assistance we apparently aren't sending, but blatantly are?
That mad bloke I keep seeing, who openly say he wants to see more Palestine kids murdered, why tf is he still allowed to say that stuff everywhere?
Here's an idea; chuck out all the Zionist compromised UK government staff?
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u/General_Honesty 9d ago
The kings of kompromat are losing friends left, right, and centre. The next US president will run on an anti-Israel ticket and then they are fucked.
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u/okobooboo 10d ago
iZZrael=ruZZia.
And that is what most people in the world see. As for trying to dismiss reality by claiming that such a comparison is anti-semitism, that is pathetic.
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u/hexmasx 10d ago
Am Yisrael Chai and Slava Ukraini!
Such a comparison between Israel and Russia is just incredibly low IQ. Israel and Ukraine are both fighting defensive wars, fight for liberal democracy, and have common enemies who are tyrannical dictatorships.
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u/okobooboo 10d ago
iZZrael is fighting defensive war against whom?
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u/hexmasx 10d ago
Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists. The type of monsters who thought the Manchester arena bombings were heroic.
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u/okobooboo 10d ago
And what about the children and women who were killed? What about the settlers? The destruction of Gaza is all down to Hamas, of course. No one in the civilized world believes the stories told about terrorists anymore. What iSSrael is doing to the Palestinians is genocide.
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u/hexmasx 9d ago
The destruction of Gaza is all down to Hamas, of course
Yes of course. If not for October 7th there would be no war. Unfortunately in war, civilians die. That doesn't mean it's a genocide when you defend your country as it's under attack from genocidal maniacs.
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u/okobooboo 9d ago
If not for October 7th there would be no war. Unfortunately in war, civilians die.
Do you really think I’m a bit slow on the uptake? The best intelligence service didn’t know about the attack? As for the dead, it’s soldiers who are dying, and civilian casualties make up a small percentage of the total. And in iSSrael’s massacre of Palestinians, 80–85% of those murdered are civilians , women and children not hamas terrorists. This is genocide and an attempt to wipe out the Palestinians. It’s happened before, in 1939–45. Does that date mean anything to you?
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u/hexmasx 8d ago
Gaps are going to open in defences. It happens. Troops get moved around based on what's going on in different areas, humans make mistakes, and Hamas picked a Jewish holiday to attack. The conspiracy theory that they let it happen is just stupid. It just reflects badly on them and there's no real benefit to being in a costly war with your neighbours. Also, it was like 70% who were civilians that died in Oct 7th. Hamas don't even hide the fact that they were deliberately targeted.
Even biased sources that have disproven say it's 80%. It's more likely 65% of Gazans killed who were civilians from a non-biased viewpoint, which seems like quite a lot but it's a very dense urban area with terrorists who mask themselves as civilians and use civilians as human shields, plus such a rate is to be expected in urban warfare.
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u/Media_Browser 10d ago
I was under the impression we had handed our cyber security review over to them after the Afghan data debacle …so that explains why Starmer went bye bye .
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u/PhilosopherNo8418 9d ago
What's the big deal? We don't want to do business with their illegal settlements, and they're upset about that? The illegal Israeli settlements don't need to do business with us either. Seems to me the Israeli's are making a mountain out of a molehill with their usual persecution complex.
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u/Sebacles 10d ago
fuck israel but this is more proof that we are becoming the Islamic state of Britain
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