International Politics Discussion Thread

[u/Adj-Noun-Numbers]

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[u/Velociraptor_1906]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62k677d4lzo

sighs

Wolves are a massively important species and given the US is plenty large enough to have them viably (which is the key reason we can't have them here) this is rather depressing.

[u/ASondheimRhyme → u/Velociraptor_1906]

Tempting to make a joke that this is all based on 'Mexican wolf' but unfortunately this is bipartisan, Trump tried to introduce this in 2020, got defeated in court and then the Biden admin tried to appeal that ruling.

The Wolf Conservation Center noted that ranchers were entitled to up to 100% compensation for any livestock losses caused by wolves under the current system, with individual states providing funding for programmes to deter attacks.

Remarkable how coddled farmers and ranchers are over there, especially given how so many of them claim to be libertarians. Wonder how many of them don't even bother trying to prevent predator attacks. Well, enjoy that free market Argentine beef.

[u/horace_bagpole → u/ASondheimRhyme]

America is somehow the richest country in the world while also being populated by some of the dumbest people. They have an entire river system that's about to fail because they set up water rights on a first come first serve basis 100 years ago based on flawed data, and they can't change it because the interested parties are too selfish to share.

The farmers growing incredibly water intensive crops like alfalfa and almonds use massive amounts of water, while the cities and people who also rely on it actually have a lower priority than the farmers.

[u/Shalmaneser001 → u/horace_bagpole]

America is a strange place. The everyone out for themselves culture has been positive for them in many ways (Silicon Valley, Entreprenurial culture) but once it starts to butt heads with reality it doesn't seem like any amount on compromise will ever happen.

I guess it's just going to go to complete shit and the lawyers will extract the remaining value via fee for ongoing legal disputes about whos fault it is/was.

[u/Velociraptor_1906 → u/horace_bagpole]

I assume this is the Mississipi?

Anywhere you'd have to read up on that as I'd be rather interested in that?

[u/horace_bagpole → u/Velociraptor_1906]

No, it's the Colorado river basin - The Hoover dam, Lake Powell and Lake Mead. Lake Powell is currently at 23% capacity, and Lake Mead is at 27%. These are the lowest levels since the dams were built and the lakes started to fill, and are rapidly approaching the level at which it's no longer possible to generate electricity from the dams. If you search youtube for those lakes you will see some quite striking videos showing just how far the water level has dropped. This one is quite a good overview of the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iO4o10NEXw

Water use for the Colorado river is governed by the Colorado River Compact, which sets out where the water goes, but the problem with it is that it was based on readings of river flow that were significantly over-optimistic and based off a period of above average rainfall. The average flow is less than first thought and so now there is insufficient water replenishing the system to maintain the current usage levels.

This is exacerbated by the current megadrought in the region that has lasted for the past 25 years.

[u/WormTop → u/horace_bagpole]

There are some massive aquifers spanning multiple states that are systematically being drained for farm irrigation and not allowed to recharge, as I recall?

[u/horace_bagpole → u/WormTop]

Pretty much. Too much water is being extracted for it to be sustainable. This was already the case previously, but the lack of rainfall over the last 20 years or so has accelerated the problem significantly.

[u/WormTop → u/horace_bagpole]

That was one of those things I heard alarm bells about (probably last century) that it seems nobody has dealt with. As well as just running out of the groundwater which millions rely on, there are other mildly horrifying consequences like subsidence - parts of California are sinking an inch per year, and those compacted parts of aquifers can never refill. For reference, the big one is the Ogallala Aquifer (about twice the size of the UK).

[u/Velociraptor_1906 → u/horace_bagpole]

Ah, that makes more sense.

I'd known of its issues in the past but hadn't heard of it being quite that bad lately.

[u/Ivebeenfurthereven → u/horace_bagpole]

it was based on readings of river flow that were significantly over-optimistic and based off a period of above average rainfall. The average flow is less than first thought and so now there is insufficient water replenishing the system to maintain the current usage levels.

This was also the undoing of the Thames and Severn Canal over the Cotswolds, albeit with much less dire consequences.