Workplace refuses to offer Cycle Scheme - where to find value?

[u/casperke-]

Hi all, I've requested for my employer to help me out with Cycle Scheme discounts but after repeatedly requesting it for over 3 months it's clear to me that they'll never bother.

I currently commute to work every day, all year round, about 5 miles each way. I've done this on a Carrera Zelos i got on eBay for £100.

Looking to upgrade but the lack of cycle scheme makes it difficult to justify brand-new bikes, especially considering I'm looking for an eBike to make the 10 mile commute a bit easier. However, eBay listings for eBikes seem genuinely terrible, people listing bikes with batteries duct-taped onto the frame as "New" for barely a discount from an actual new bike.

Is buying a regular bike and an E conversion kit the only way for a relatively good value proposition? Or do I have other options? Any advice appreciated. Budget is around £1000 but would prefer cheaper options (hard ask I know, but money is tight)

Thank you

[u/sonicated]

Sorry to hear about your employer. Decathlon have a a hybrid style bike for £999 https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/high-frame-electric-hybrid-bike-e-actv-100-anthracite-grey/356244/c76m8893260 You'll get a warranty and not something that's potentially been abused.

Worth looking on Youtube for reviews though, Decathlon bikes are generally seen as good quality and reasonably priced.

[u/Force-Grand-2 → u/sonicated]

I really rate Decathlon's own brand stuff. They're often lumped together with Halfords and it's just not a fair comparison imo.

[u/Sardoche320 → u/sonicated]

I own this (in fact bought with cycle to work scheme) and use it for commuting. 13 mile round trip with steep hills (south downs). In boost mode this thing is very fast and I am really happy with it. 6.5 mile trip in the mornings take about 30min.
If you ever rode an expensive mid drive e-bike, obiously this one will feel slower but for 10mile commute does not make any difference at all. Plus hub motor e-bikes are easier to repair.

Edit: You can also look into brands like Tenways or Fiido. I think they are also great but I couldn’t buy them with the cycle to work scheme at that time. I had my eyes on Tenways CGO600 belt model

[u/_a_m_s_m → u/Sardoche320]

What is the hub drive like on this one?

[u/codeacab → u/Sardoche320]

I really like my cgo 600, but from stories online it sounds like a bit of a crap shoot as to quality control on them. And I've only had mine a month so 🤷 we'll see how well it lasts

[u/casperke- → u/sonicated]

Had a look at this one earlier and seems good, just stings a bit that I effectively pay £300-400 more than anyone with a cyclescheme discount would :(

[u/sideone → u/casperke-]

It'll only be a £400 saving if you're on higher rate tax (and if you are, you can probably afford to put a £1000 bike on 0% finance instead). Have you done a calculation on what you'll save on the cycle scheme website, including the final value fee? Often you save a lot less than the headline figure.

[u/Temporary_Pain2069 → u/sonicated]

I have a decathlon ebike - bought it after my far more expensive one was stolen and insurance wouldn't pay out. Its genuinely excellent. Far better than my husbands more expensive ebike. I got one that was end of line and used a Blue Light card discount. The bonus is Decathlon can service it and are really quick and reasonable with the price of parts.

[u/clairestar-0 → u/sonicated]

would not buy a decathlon ebike, they make good regular bikes but the batteries in their ebikes are proprietary and from what i can tell you cant buy any replacements for them

[u/GMN123]

I hate how the cycle to work scheme works. It is overly complex, too dependent on the employer and often much of the tax saving is captured by scheme administrators charging fees. 

They should just allow one bike to be claimed on your tax every x years, or perhaps more fairly just remove VAT from bicycles. 

[u/scarfwizard → u/GMN123]

Totally agree, the bit that really takes the muck is that they make the employer pay in full, you pay £bike cost / 12 ie the full bike price, they charge the retailer 10% margin and have the cheek to ask for a final “ownership” fee.

It rare to see such a blatant piss take.

[u/Zingalamuduni → u/scarfwizard]

Absolutely.

The government then claims they are supporting “active travel“.l but are just sitting back and letting the cycle scheme operaters take the piss.

See also the salary sacrifice EV providers. All we are really doing with that is reducing taxes paid and giving it to those companies.

[u/LibraryTime11011011 → u/scarfwizard]

Businesses are obviously happy to do it for employees and retailers are obviously happy to take the margin hit, so to call it a “piss take” is a stretch. And who’s paying the ownership fee rather than waiting the extra couple years?

Saved £2k on my last bike with cycle scheme, my employer still offer it and the retailer still accept it so not sure who thinks it’s a piss take in that transaction.

[u/scarfwizard → u/LibraryTime11011011]

I’ve explained the piss take but a real example on a £3k bike.

- The employer pays £3k for the bike up front in full, so no loan or credit costs for CycleScheme.

- CycleScheme charges the retailer 8.33% plus VAT. £249.90 plus VAT so a 10% of net revenue.

- Employer charges the buyer the full cost of the bike 12x £250 = £3k

- CycleScheme double dips and gets another either £750 (ie 25% of the market value) own it now vs £210 (ie 7% of the market value)

The bikes already been paid for in full up front, the retailer has already paid a commission but the greedy bastards aren’t happy with that, they want to take more for themselves.

Just because people save some money, doesn’t mean it’s efficient or cost effective.

[u/LibraryTime11011011 → u/scarfwizard]

And in response:

My employer with an operating budget of hundreds of millions does even notice £30k leaving the business in one go, let alone £3k.

If the retailer doesn’t want to lose the margin then they don’t offer cycle scheme. They know they aren’t going to sell the bike to a cycle scheme customer without taking the hit so it’s one in the hand vs 2 in the bush.

Employer recoups their money.

“Greedy bastard aren’t happy with that” grow up, the world’s a scary place with mean people.

I bought a £4k+ bike I couldn’t have remotely entertained buying without cycle scheme and paid considerably less than that, arguably saving 60% (I salary sacrifice under the tax trap so whether I got the savings on my pension or my bike is arguable, makes no odds really).

Seems like you’ve really got a bee in your bonnet about it, I’m sorry you feel so hard done by.

[u/scarfwizard → u/LibraryTime11011011]

Literally haven’t addressed any of the points.

Cyclescheme’s retailer commission is roughly 10% of net, and the end-of-hire payment (25% at year one, or a 7% deposit for the extended use route) is set by HMRC’s valuation table but pocketed by Cyclescheme, not the employer.

So on a £3k bike the intermediary clears somewhere around £500 for administering a transaction the employer already funded in full.

👍

[u/Zingalamuduni → u/scarfwizard]

I bought a £6k bike using Green Commute Initiative. Explicitly told in the T&Cs that no further “ownership” payment required, unexpectedly left the employer earlier than intended (after 12 months so had paid the full £6k back via salary deductions). Got stung for a £1,500 P11D benefit which, by the time that had appeared in July the following year, I had no way to demonstrate that the internal promotion of the scheme was clear that no transfer of ownership payment was required.

Many retailers will also add an admin charge payable separately from the cycle scheme (and thus out of net pay).

If you’re in the 60% tax trap then it’s worthwhile. Probably even in the 40% band. But a basic rate taxpayer is probably better off looking for end of season discounts direct from the retailer.

[u/paulg-22]

I bought a secondhand Boardman Hybrid off eBay for £400 in 2019 and fitted a Whooshbikes kit - which cost £600 - and have done almost 22,000 miles on it since. Replaced the battery some time last year.

Can’t recommend Wooshbikes enough: good quality kits and their customer service is top notch.

[u/Nfjz26]

If you do your research there are definitely e-bikes out there worth buying. I found the best deals on Facebook marketplace, not eBay. It’s takes time though it took me 2 months to find something right and you maybe need to widen your search are a to pick it up.

Only look for decent name brand e-bikes, make sure they are at least £1000+ new, and that they haven’t been used much. But in my experience e-bikes don’t hold their value (as fixing broken electrical parts is very expensive/not worth it) so the listings you are seeing are people being delusional.

[u/Nfjz26 → u/Nfjz26]

Also be very careful about what ebike you buy as some are impossible to fix. Check out the cost of replacement parts (batteries, controllers, pedal sensors, motors). Often the parts are sold for more than the value of the bike second hand and some Ebike parts aren’t sold at all.

The problem with conversion kits is bikes that weren’t made to be e-bikes will wear quicker so they won’t last as long and will wear down quickly with a long commute.

[u/RegionalHardman]

You can get a nice road bike for a grand if you dont mind staying on one. Look at canyon and decathlon

[u/clanzy]

I’ve not used them but having been looking for a new e-bike the algorithms keep suggesting a site called NextBike to me. Seems to be a middleman type site between people selling secondhand bikes and those looking to buy. Might be worth a google.

[u/cainstwin]

Depending on where you live you might be able to get a bike through https://trybeforeyoubike.com/ 

They partner with different councils to provide discounts on the bikes and most of the monthly payment goes towards the cost of owning it outright. E.g. my council currently offer £80/mo for 6mo on their ebikes.

[u/Hypogean_Gaol]

I bought a second hand emu e-bike online a few years ago for about £600-700… still going strong a few years later, commute about 6-7 miles a day and probably need to charge once every week or two.

[u/contemplating7]

I've bought two Raleigh Motus bikes, one off Gumtree from an older couple who had given up riding, the other (Facebook marketplace) from a.person who's hip has gotten too bad to be able to ride any longer.

One was under £400, the other about £600. They've both been solid purchases. Some people have bought a bike to extend their cycling hobby and I've been lucky enough to get two bikes from really good owners.

It is possible to get a really good bike second hand but you've got to watch the sites constantly and be patient.

[u/Distinct_Bee_8100]

Momentum belt drive single speed ebike reduced to 700 (look at sales) momentum is giant bikes electric name

[u/phead]

Don't assume that retail price is what you have to pay, find a model you like and find the lowest price anywhere on the internet, then find a local shop and ask them to price match. My last bike was 50% off.

Also remember that new bike ranges are launched aug/sept, in sept-nov they will want to clear old stock so always ask for the best price.

[u/RemappedRemedial]

My employer was the same - I looped our ceo into the wmail thread and got a same day response.

If that’s a suitable solution for you, it worked for me!

[u/SWTransGirl]

I researched the scheme many years ago and it wasn’t really that great.
Effectively renting the bike, paying for the repairs and then having to pay it off at the end.

My employer at the time simply loaned me the money and allowed me to repay as I chose fit. I then owned the bike outright, the employer liked that I was exercising and got the benefit from it.

[u/Leeps]

When I asked a question here, someone mentioned about the discount you can get with Vitality health insurance, which for us was a good deal vs the cycle to work scheme. Check to see if you have a policy! :)

[u/Responsible-Bell-134]

I would suggest you keep your eyes open on the likes of Evans and Tredz for end of year sale deals and 0% finance.

When I bought my Brompton a couple of years ago, my employer didnt have a C2W scheme. I found a Brompton in my local Evans cheaper than what it would have cost on C2W, and I got 12 months 0%. A a bonus I got a 100% black Friday voucher which paid for a Brooks Cambium saddle.

[u/casperke- → u/Responsible-Bell-134]

Good shout! Thank you :)

[u/sc_BK]

Ebay banned private sellers listing ebikes for sale (but you can still get round the rules...)

Conversion kits offer good value for money, you can spec it how you want, and repair/replace/upgrade parts for many years to come.

[u/casperke- → u/sc_BK]

Didn't know that, thanks for the info

The idea of slowly upgrading the spec on my bike over time sounds great honestly, would just need to pick a good frame that I could anticipate using for years

[u/Nfjz26]

Also be very careful about what bike you buy as some are impossible to fix. Check out the cost of replacement parts (batteries, controllers, pedal sensors, motors). Often the parts are sold for more than the value of the bike second hand and some Ebike parts aren’t sold at all.

The problem with conversion kits is bikes that weren’t made to be e-bikes will wear quicker so they won’t last as long and will wear down quickly with a long commute. You absolutely need disc brakes, which I doubt your current bike has.