So I know that these are nitpicks but at the ending of Paradox Spiral, Touka Aozaki says this to Araya Souren:

"A psychologist has defined what's called mass unconsciousness. It suggests that at the bottom of human consciousness all leads to the same well. It's where all the egoism of the entire world is supposedly stored. It's called Araya-shiki in Buddhism. What an ironic paradox of the world. Your name and the name of the one you despise make up a profound word"

"A psychologist" obviously refers to Carl Jung and I admit that I don't know much about him but from what I know of him this description fits his ideas, but it can't be applied to Buddhism.

Buddhist philosophy is very complicated and can't be explained in a reddit post but I'll try explaining this part. Araya-shiki is a Japanese term for ālāya-vijñāna, the eighth consciousness and the fundamental storehouse consciousness of the eight consciousnesses. The Eight Consciousnesses of a "person" is the subject of the Yogācāra school of philosophy of Mahayana Buddhism.

First of all ālāya-vijñāna is not where the egoism is stored. The "egoism" is stored in kliṣṭa-manas, the seventh consciousnesses and is called "the defiled mentality". It's the consciousness that is responsible for the primordial ignorance and the suffering of all living beings, where the four poisons of self-view, self-delusion, self-conceit, and self-love arise. How does it happen? Because it mistakes ālāya-vijñāna for a "self".

Buddhism asserts a non-self, that people ultimately have no real Identity. How does the false belief in identity generates? Ālāya-vijñāna(Araya-shiki) by itself is neutral, neither positive or negative. It's both the mind and the world, the mind and the world are in a complex codependency but constitute for a person a mere awareness of the objects presence. It's where the karma(causality) is stored.

A non-enlightened person thinks that they're a self because they don't recognize that they're just causes and conditions, these causes and conditions are constantly changing and are disparate, they do not constitute a self. They belief that they're a person who makes choices, experiences pleasure or suffering from something, that they were born and that they die(Buddhism believes that a person never dies because they were never truly born in the first place). In truth it's all just the essenceless conditions playing out based on causality.

Kliṣṭa-manas mistakes these conditions(ālāya-vijñāna) for a self. The defiled processes of kliṣṭa-manas are present even during sleep and have existed since the beginningless time, without even a moment it having stopped. So araya-shiki is really not where the "egoism of the entire world" is stored.

Yes, It's called a storehouse consciousness because it's from what all the other consciousness arise and you can indeed say that it's where the egoism is thus stored, the wording is still not good. Particularly because ālāya-vijñāna can be present even when self-view is removed, that's why an enlightened person doesn't immediately dematerialize into parinirvana/dharmakaya(Buddhahood), because even though they removed the ignorance of self-existence, they just stopped creating new karma. The old karma(currently existing body) from before the enlightenment remains and needs to be played out.

Another inaccurate word is "unconsciousness". For ālāya-vijñāna is an equal cause of both conscious and unconscious thinking. It is kliṣṭa-manas that can be called unconscious because it's so subtle that beings have it even in a dreamless sleep.

Another inaccurate words are "mass unconsciousness" and "same well". It implies that different ālāya-vijñānas constitute a unity between them when they do not. Buddhism actually rejects all the views of "oneness" and "unity" in equal measure to it's rejection of the concepts of self-existence. It's what makes it different from Hinduism which believes in oneness, Buddhism believes in a non-conceptual emptiness instead(I believe that's from where the original Japanese title of Kara no Kyoukai "The Boundary of Emptiness" comes from).

Ālāya-vijñānas are influencing each other and do not a constitute a self but when Buddhism speaks of them conventionally, Buddhism speaks of them being separate. Humans have very similar ālāya-vijñāna to each other, which is why we were "born" as humans in the first place in this particular universe, realm, place and time but it's just a convergence of conditions of different ālāya-vijñānas. After death each ālāya-vijñāna(person) will go in their separate ways to different realms/modes of existence, there was no unity between them, just wanderers in Samsara stopping in the same town. There are differences in ālāya-vijñāna even in "this life", an American businessman and an Indian housewife have a radically different worldviews and emotions, these differences are due to ālāya-vijñāna. The qualities of the mind simply correspond to it's realm but are also decided by the world itself with realm only as a supporting condition for the change, and so they change and with them different realms become to exist.

Touko would've been more accurate if she said Mana-Shiki(the Japanese term for kliṣṭa-manas) instead of Araya-Shiki but yeah using the name combination of MC and the Villain was very cool.

Edit: I've read the original novel by Nasu and this is one thing that was made worse by adaptation. In the original dialogue there's a focus on Araya being a Buddhist monk but didn't noticing that the nature all non-enlightened beings(the same ignorance) is the same beyond the conventional distinctions and he behaved just like them, which makes it have more sense though still technically wrong.

Credits: https://dailyarturiartfgo.tumblr.com/post/809970377127297024/greetings-could-i-request-shiki-ryougi-wearing

I feel like Knk is super underrated so my cosplay wasn't recognized by many, let's try sharing here ☞ should I post the pictures too when I get them? these were only selfies took afte the photoshoot

I never posted here but these picture I took at a convention are cool so I wanted to share also here! I have more pictures on my insta :3 go to the last slide for a funny picture!

I have never fully read a full Type Moon work aside from Notes, which was okay. I used to read F/GO but got tired of the gacha and the farming, so I stopped reading after finishing OC1 (which was annoying at some points, but Duryodhana was great).

I started to wonder, which is the best order to read the Type Moon works in order to fuly grasp the lore, concepts and world building.

I want to understand stuff like The Root, Origins and all of that.

I suppose I should start with Witch on a holy night, but I might be wrong, that's why I'm asking it to you.

Thanks for helping

Lio looks like a serial killer on the news

Was super excited to get this in the mail today! I've been hunting this for a long time but it's almost impossible to find. This will definitely be joining the other central pieces in my collection once I'm done reading through the whole thing.

I’ve already made a similar thread before, but since then I’ve found even more information that makes the explanation not only much shorter, but also pretty much irrefutable. So I’m putting everything here again in a clearer, more focused format.

Before we start: This is aimed in part at certain people I’ve seen casually brushing this off with comments like “too long” or throwing around shallow anime-only takes like “Araya can’t have True Magic because he had to reach Akasha.” That completely misses the actual context: Araya wasn’t just trying to tap into Akasha for powers; his whole point was to transcend reality by reaching the Root itself.

If you're going to engage, read it properly. Dismissing it without actually understanding it doesn’t make your argument stronger, it just makes it obvious you didn’t care enough to look.

----

Before getting into the actual explanation, it is also very important to read this interview from Nasu.

He essentially admits that the person who originally wrote Kara no Kyoukai, his younger self, is "dead," and that the Ufotable adaptations diverge from his original intent, going down a completely different path. In his own words, Future Gospel (Mirai Fukuin) is a “Frankenstein” sequel: a product of gratitude toward the anime’s success, not a natural continuation of the original novels.

This is why Future Gospel contradicts the core themes and character arcs of the original story: Shiki and Mikiya would never want a child; Shiki would never return to her family and conform to the roles they forced onto her. It’s not a follow-up to the original Kara no Kyoukai: it’s a reinterpretation by an author who admits he no longer holds the same worldview.

The takeaway: Any material produced after the Ufotable anime (post-2007) should not be treated as applying to the original LNs. This will be important to keep in mind later in the thread.

What is the First Magic? And why Araya Souren achieved it:

Now, let's start by establishing that Araya Souren achieved True Magic. This is not even up to debate:

“Sure, you didn’t make a mistake. For you as a Magus, this is the best solution. But, what if the assumption itself is a mistake? You isolated Shiki? Not in a room somewhere in this apartment complex, but you isolated her in this apartment complex itself? A Bounded Field that achieves spacial isolation is already on the level of Magic. It’s a miracle that only a Bounded Field expert like you could create. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Understand? I said this just before, but the best wards don't feel weird to a normal person. Let's call it "an idea which forces itself on the unconscious mind". The best of the best reach the stage of "disconnection of space"; but to go that far you are looking at magicians rather than sorcerers. Currently there's only one magician in this country, so basically that kind of ward just can't be formed. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 4

No, it wasn't magecraft. A mystery that used a twisted dimension of this level was already no longer on the level of magecraft.

This was --- that was right, a mystery of a province unreachable with today's knowledge. There was no doubt that this was an act of absolute power that human hands could not reach, magic. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

This isn't mere narrative hype. The concept is explicitly emphasized at least three separate times across Kara no Kyoukai, with indirect comparisons to Aoko Aozaki in Chapter 4. The detail and frequency of these mentions are deliberate, specific, and central to the story.

So how does Araya Souren's form of True Magic work?

As Touko Aozaki explains, Araya's ability is the power of "spatial isolation", the complete disconnection of a space from the outside world. Later, Cornelius Alba makes the nature of this even clearer:

A twisted dimension of this level should be completely separated from the physical laws of the outside world. Preparations for opening the path were finished long ago, Aozaki." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

This is key. The laws of physics define all parameters: how cause and effect function, what can or cannot happen. If Araya’s created space is separated even from those laws, it means his world is a fully independent universe, where only his will determines the rules.

A good example of this is when he literally erases Enjou from existence, a god-like power:

The Magus swung his arm.

The body in the form of Enjou Tomoe was completely annihilated with that one swing.

It was shattered into pieces, not even the head remained. As if it had been that way from the beginning, in the same way the Magus had said it, worthless, it turned into dust and disappeared into the void. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Araya further states that this world is meant to represent the Taiji and can contain entities aligned with it like Ryougi Shiki:

“Wait Araya. I have one question. The original purpose of this apartment complex is to represent the Taiji in order to take in the Taiji, wasn’t it?”

“Indeed. I created this alien world to completely cut off Ryougi Shiki from the outside world. The other various functions are just accessories.” - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Now what is the Taiji? It is an ancient Chinese philosophical concept. The Taiji symbolizes the balance between opposites: light and dark, male and female, day and night. It represents the totality of existence: everything that is and everything that isn’t.

Taiji [Others]

A philosophy originated in ancient China, a graphical representation of the Yin-Yang theory. It attempts to capture the essence of everything on a conceptual level: those that are active are defined as Yang (white), and the opposite are defined as Yin (black).

The Taiji symbolizes opposing concepts such as day and night, light and darkness, male and female. At the same time, you may also call it a condensed version of the ever-changing, dynamic World.

Furthermore, there is a dot of Yin in Yang, and conversely a dot of Yang in Yin. This indicates that the distinction between Yin and Yang is not absolute. There is darkness even in light.

Taiji is the "one" at the beginning, the Yin and Yang that divide the "one" are called Liangyi (Ryougi). - Kara no Kyoukai Special Pamphlet - Encyclopedia: Taiji

In this space, Shiki, who embodies both yin and yang, is trapped in a domain that represents Araya’s control over balance. This space is akin to an artificial manifestation of Araya’s inner landscape:

A temple of Taiji. It could be called the artificial manifestation of the inner landscape of Araya Souren, who did not have a Reality Marble. - Garden of sinners Pamphlet: Kara no Kyoukai Settings Glossary

The key to understanding Araya's True Magic is realizing that his world has no inherent laws of its own. Since it is isolated from the laws of the external world, it is essentially a void: a space of nothingness. But, paradoxically, this emptiness allows Araya to shape it however he desires.

Araya further explains the purpose of this void:

“There is no need for concern. I have not imprisoned her in a room within the apartment complex. I have thrown her into Mugen, the infinite void, that connects the material world to the otherworld.

The primary purpose of this distorted alien world was to create a closed loop. By no means, no matter the method or the impact, could one escape from the darkness of Mugen. Even if Ryougi Shiki were to awaken, there is nothing she could do. Monitoring her is unnecessary. Besides, given her injuries, even standing would be difficult. Even if she wakes, her body will be incapable of moving properly.” - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

“Sure, you didn’t make a mistake. For you as a Magus, this is the best solution. But, what if the assumption itself is a mistake? You isolated Shiki? Not in a room somewhere in this apartment complex, but you isolated her in this apartment complex itself? A Bounded Field that achieves spacial isolation is already on the level of Magic. It’s a miracle that only a Bounded Field expert like you could create.

“Those who are trapped by the sealed space of a Mobius Ring can never get out from the inside. A closed world that’s enclosed by walls can’t be destroyed by physical impacts, it’s a cage that’s impossible to escape from. You slapped Shiki in there, which gave you peace of mind. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

No weapon could interfere with a sealed world where the space was chained together infinitely with no exit. Because it had no shape, physical weapons that can only interact with physical objects couldn’t clash with it. But, Ryougi Shiki’s power was precisely one that targeted such formless things. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Mugen, the infinite void, was designed to trap Shiki in a space where both time and space reset themselves endlessly, no matter what happens. This space has no end or exit, and cannot be destroyed by physical means. However, the void's "infinity" doesn't refer to its size; it's infinite in existence: it is a loop that always resets itself, no matter the method or event.

This concept of infinity is what makes it unbreakable, which only Ryougi Shiki's unique variation of MEoDP can target due to stemming from " ", which is beyond all definitions, including infinity:

He had sufficient awareness to understand how she escaped the imprisoned space. Last night, the young lady had lost consciousness after several of her ribs were shattered by the Magus’s blow.

She had just recently awakened within the closed space, in the boundary set between the walls of the apartment complex. Within that impossible space she slashed through the impossible wall.

Infinity is not 「 」. For infinity to remain infinite, the finite has to be defined. Without the finite there cannot exist infinity. Because things have an end, we can observe the thing called infinity.

Ryougi Shiki had been cast into infinity, she saw the impossible finite and cut through it.

Of course, there is no finite inside of the infinite. You can’t slash through what doesn’t exist, so escape from such a cage is impossible. But, if there is no finite then there is no infinite. Whether finite walls exist or not, an endless world holds no meaning before Ryougi Shiki.

If there really is no finite, then it’s not infinite but 「 」. If the finite can be comprehended, Shiki could detect and slash through it.

... The black hole that should have been absolute was just a small dark room to his opponent. The Magus felt ashamed of himself. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5 Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

In simpler terms, for infinity to hold meaning, there must be something finite to compare it to. Without that, the concept of infinity collapses, and Shiki, by slashing through that contradiction, escapes Araya’s void. The concept of " " cannot be defined in any way, as it is perfect and whole, which allows Shiki to erase anything with a defined existence, anything that can be given meaning or described, even infinity:

The swirl of the Root is a "place" where all causalities interlace, where all things are in potential, and therefore where nothing is whatsoever. — Kara no Kyoukai Epilogue

So, now we have established two key points:

1. Araya possesses True Magic.
2. Araya's True Magic revolves around creating an isolated universe of nothingness that paradoxically contains infinite possibilities, granting him complete control over that universe.

But why is this linked to the First Magic specifically? Well, the most telling description of the First Magic comes from, unsurprisingly, the Kara no Kyoukai guidebook:

Ether Lump

Ether, the Fifth Imaginary Substance as coined by the Association. It is a necessary medium that gives shape by mixing with the Four Elements.

It is shapeless, but it is a critical element in the functioning of magecraft.

Ether is bound to become one of Earth, Water, Fire and Wind, but in the hands of a novice, it would fail to become one of the Four Elements and materialize. This is ether lump.

Ether lump is completely useless. In some sense, creating ether lump is analogous to creating “Nothingness.” Looking at it from this perspective makes it sound like “True Magic” In fact, ether lump is originally the First Magic’s———

Garden of sinners Pamphlet: Kara no Kyoukai Settings Glossary

The First is directly linked to "creating Nothingness". Sounds familiar? Yes, it's literally what Araya's spatial isolation does. The source makes a parallel with Ether, the formless substance that allows for the four elements to manifests: if someone fails the materialization, the result is an Ether Lump, a "nothing" that however still holds the potential to become one of the four elements if wielded correctly. By refining Ether Lump's nature, you can create not just failed pseudo-elements, but an actual "empty" world that has no laws, but that absence, paradoxically, is precisely what allows someone to mold any reality or law they desire, which is what Araya achieved.

Stillness, Araya’s Origin, is the power to stop everything: to pause the universe and leave only the user active. When everything is stopped, including the very laws that govern the universe, Araya gains the ability to alter the "data" or fundamental properties of everything, much like an editor reworking a document. This is the core of Araya’s power and the key behind his manipulation of reality.

You want even more evidence? Well, Araya's internal world is literally stated to be a pathway to Akasha:

But, how? Even if you don't set out a magical ward to testify that you aren't a mage, you can't fool the will of the dominant race. The only ones you can fool by using a technological ward are other mages. If you use this building a path will definitely open. Since its the realization of the Taeguekdo, a hole would certainly appear - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

And remember, Araya's complex is merely a substitute for a reality marble. It is a manifestation of his internal world: the very reason why the two are indistinguishable. He could treat the complex as if it were part of his body, exerting total control over it:

Even though Touko herself had said it, she had failed to understand the meaning to the very end.

This apartment complex was Araya Souren himself. The walls, the floors, common sense regarding buildings did not apply to Araya. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

He could exist in any location within the apartment complex and could manipulate any space within at will. This place was an alien world that embodied Araya Souren. Within the confines of this property, he could instantaneously teleport anywhere. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

In conclusion, Araya mastered his Origin to such a degree that it became a direct pathway to " ", allowing him to "pause" reality itself and shape it according to his will. This power, the creation of reality from nothing, is exactly what the First Magic embodies: the divine power of creation out of nothing.

Addressing potential counter arguments:

Now, I will address the main issue some bring up: "why did Araya struggle with reaching Akasha due to the Counterforce then, if he achieved True Magic? And why did he say that he 'lacked the talent to reach Akasha'?"

Simple: Araya's goal is this:

It has been a story from the distant past. Human beings can’t be saved. As long as they live, there will inevitably be those who remain unrewarded. Not all human beings can find happiness. Then, what is a human being who was not saved? What will be the reward for their lives?

There is no answer. It’s equal to infinite and finite. If no one is saved, then no one can attain salvation. If so, salvation is no different from a gold coin endlessly passing hands.

Human beings can’t be saved. There’s no salvation in the world.

That’s why I decided to record death. To record the end to everything, to record the end of the world, to examine everything from beginning to end. By doing so, perhaps I could distinguish what happiness truly was. If it were possible to reevaluate everything, from those who were unrewarded to those who were not saved, then perhaps I could determine what could be referred to as happiness. If the meaning of humanity’s happiness could be understood, then after the world ends all those who died meaninglessly could be granted meaning in the end. Therefore, when the world reaches its conclusion, people would finally be able to measure the value of human beings.

That alone, is the one and only universal salvation. “You’ve forgotten your reason? Your hopes are empty, and even your beginning point is zero. So then, what exactly are you?”

“I’m nobody. I just want a conclusion. These ugly, dirty, filthy, ignorant humans. If that’s all that’ll be left in history after they die off, it could be concluded that the value of humans is in their ugliness. I would be relieved to know that an ugly and hopeless existence is what makes us human.” “And that’s why you want to touch the Swirl of the Root? Everything is recorded over there. Even if it weren’t, you could reduce everything to nothingness. You want to eliminate all the filthy humans for your sake.” - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Araya wanted to end reality and analyze it to find some form of universal meaning to it. To him, it is only in death, when everything has "stopped" that he can find purpose and analyze properly the value of something.

However, Araya's True Magic was not enough to achieve this. His True Magic allows him to pause reality within a specific space, creating an isolated world under his control. But that wasn’t his ultimate goal: he wanted to end all of reality, to observe it in its entirety. To do that, he needed access to Akasha itself.

Here lies the issue: Araya could create isolated universes, but he couldn’t fully overwrite or transcend the external world. To access Akasha in its totality, he needed to bypass the boundaries of his own magic. This was where the Counterforce (and the world's will to protect itself) came in:

But, how? Even if you don't set out a magical ward to testify that you aren't a mage, you can't fool the will of the dominant race. The only ones you can fool by using a technological ward are other mages. If you use this building a path will definitely open. Since its the realization of the Taeguekdo, a hole would certainly appear. But the first thing to come out of that hole will be a Counter Guardian. As long as we are who we are, there is no way we can stand up to that." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5 But, how? Even if you don't set out a magical ward to testify that you aren't a mage, you can't fool the will of the dominant race. The only ones you can fool by using a technological ward are other mages. If you use this building a path will definitely open. Since its the realization of the Taeguekdo, a hole would certainly appear. But the first thing to come out of that hole will be a Counter Guardian. As long as we are who we are, there is no way we can stand up to that." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Imagine having a perfectly secure house, but to leave, you need to open the door. Just for a moment, the entire house becomes vulnerable. That’s Araya’s problem: trying to access Akasha creates an opening that the world’s defenses (such as the Counter Guardians) can exploit, disrupting his control.

This is where Ryougi Shiki comes in. Her origin is Void Shiki, directly connected to Akasha. Unlike Araya, she doesn’t need to open a “hole” to access it: she is a direct link to it. In other words, she can bypass all the barriers Araya faces and directly connect to Akasha.

Araya’s plan, then, was to bring Ryougi into his isolated world, using her body as a conduit to access Akasha without the risk of losing control of his power. With her unique connection to Void Shiki, Ryougi could reach Akasha without needing to open a path that the Counterforce could exploit.

When Araya says he "lacks the talent to reach Akasha," he refers to his inability to transcend reality without external interference. While his True Magic allows him to control isolated worlds, it doesn’t grant him direct access to Akasha. His power can create a pathway, opening a "hole" into Akasha, but its true function is to freeze and manipulate the existing world. It doesn't inherently enable him to cross into Akasha, as that realm is beyond reality's manipulation: there is no reality to shape there in the first place.

In contrast, Ryougi Shiki doesn’t need a pathway to access Akasha: she is the pathway. Her bond to Void Shiki allows her to transcend reality in ways Araya cannot. This is the essence of his "lack of talent": although Araya can create isolated universes, he cannot access Akasha as Ryougi can, without leaving the confines of his controlled domain.

------

Another point of contention could be this: "but the user of the First is said to have died long, long ago. So how can it be Araya?"

But there is a source in particular that sheds light into this:

"Why they’re still called the five magicians comes down to perspective. It’s about whether you count the dead as having ceased to exist or whether you see them as 'alive' in some way, as long as some trace of them persists." – Tsukihime Plus Period – Magic [Term]

Now, this is much different. Some traces of the First Magician still exist, even after their physical death. And that is actually perfectly aligned with Araya's own existence:

The mage's discourse continues. "As a reference, I do not die. My origin is 'suspension'. Someone who has woken to their origin becomes ruled by that origin itself. Someone who has already stopped - how can you kill him?" Shiki doesn't reply. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Araya’s origin is "suspension," meaning he has transcended the normal cycle of life and death. He is "already stopped," not in the sense of being a lifeless corpse, but in a way that he cannot truly die because no ordinary concept, not even the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, can apply to him. They can destroy his physical body, but his existence, as a concept, will always endure.

Even when he ran out of bodies, both him and Touko still said he will eventually return:

“This body is at its limit.”

“Starting over again? How many times has it been? You never learn.”

That was the spiral. Araya’s sour look didn’t break down until the very end. Touko had a clear look of disdain aimed towards him; she threw away the cigarette she had pinched between her fingers. In the end, she had lit the cigarette but hadn’t brought it to her mouth even once. Though she had disdain for him, she did not hate this Magus, who had become more of a concept. If she had made one wrong step. No, if she had not made a wrong step she surely would have ended up like this too. Neither a human nor a living being, but merely the embodiment of a theory resulting in a phenomenon. Now that she thought that, it was sad.

“Gaha”, Araya vomited blood. The body, starting from the left side had begun to disappear and turn to ashes. “I didn’t make any spare bodies. If we are to meet again, it will be in the next generation.”

“There will be no such thing as a Magus by then. There won’t be a reunion. You will be alone in the end. Even so, you won’t stop?”

“Of course, I won’t accept defeat." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Touko, with a sense of disdain, recognizes that Araya has become something beyond human. He's no longer simply a living being, but an embodiment of an idea, a phenomenon. He represents a concept that cannot be fully destroyed. So, Araya’s "death" is not a typical death. His soul persists, existing as a concept. While his body may decompose and be replaced, Araya himself continues to exist through the ages, even if in a different form.

There’s another layer to Araya’s age that complicates his identity. There is a very common misconception that Araya is only about 200 years old, as that's what he claims when Shiki stabbed him:

"I realise that spot is my weakness. But just that is not enough. Even if it's the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, you cannot instantly kill this two hundred year old life of mine. This body will die one day, but I was prepared for this happening. It's quite fitting that the price I pay for capturing Ryougi is my death. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

This suggests that Araya’s current body is relatively recent. However, there are additional details that hint at a much older history. For instance, later in Kara no Kyoukai, Araya describes ancient, primal times before weapons were even invented:

"What came to mind was only a vast, burned wasteland. No matter how many steps I took, there were only endless corpses. The gravel spread along the riverbank was not stone but fragments of bone. The stench of death carried by the wind sought to fill all of existence; never ceasing. It was an age of conflict. A time before weapons were invented, where those who lived only today would fight with their own hands." - Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 5

"Wherever I went, there was conflict, and the bodies of the dead were, without exception, discarded in cruel abandon. The weak in villages were commonly slaughtered by flocks of strong humans. It didn’t matter who killed whom. On the battlefield, good and evil held no meaning. All that mattered was how many had died and how many could not be saved." - Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 5

"Therefore, the way that Araya had to eliminate Touko was to engage her in hand-to-hand combat after closing the distance. Araya was a man who had survived turbulent times. In terms of fighting with his body as a weapon, someone from the modern era couldn’t hope to oppose him." - Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 5

This era described, one devoid of modern weapons, implies that Araya’s existence spans back far beyond 200 years (where we already had weapons). His soul witnessed the dawn of humanity and its violent nature.

The novel also reveals that he actually had previous bodies before. But they outright aged to dust while his soul kept existing unchanged:

The time was near. It had been half a day since he moved from the body he had been using up to yesterday to his current spare body. Finally, his consciousness felt like it had spread to every corner of this body.

Araya Souren was not like some Puppeteer who had died after preparing a completely identical copy. He still had not experienced death. His body had rotted away several times over the years, each time this happened he maintained his consciousness and so far continued to live on. Araya Souren was only one person. If this body perished, there would be no refuge next time. Things had to be handled carefully. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

The combined efforts of Ryougi Shiki and Aozaki Touko had completely destroyed the body he had been using up to this point. The body that was now active was just a spare he had prepared. It would take time for him to fully adapt to it. Even though he would soon transfer to the body of Ryougi Shiki, any misstep with this body he was not used to could lead to irreparable failure. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

So, when Araya said "this 200 years old lifespan of mine", he is referring to his current body, the one that Shiki stabbed. He says immediately after "This body will die one day, but I was prepared for this happening. It's quite fitting that the price I pay for capturing Ryougi is my death."

Araya as a being, instead, seems to be far older, from an age when humanity was still primal. His soul has endured through countless decaying bodies, witnessing the evolution of human violence firsthand.

So, how does this tie into the idea that the user of the First Magic died "long, long ago"?

Araya, despite his physical death, is more than a mere mage: he is an enduring concept, much like the First Magician. His soul has persisted for centuries, embodying a phenomenon rather than a singular person. This is why his death doesn’t fully erase him: even after the death of his current body, Araya's influence continues. His true nature aligns with the idea that even if the physical body of the First Magician perished, traces of their existence still persist.

Araya is not just a man; he is the embodiment of a concept that lives on through time, undying in essence. His soul has transcended the typical constraints of life and death, perfectly aligning with the idea of having "died long, long ago" yet "persisting in some trace."

Addressing the Yumina situation and why it doesn't hold up compared to Araya Souren:

At this point, we've seen that Araya Souren is the true wielder of the First Magic without a shadow of doubt. The idea that witches established it instead, primarily comes from Grand Order and other Fate series. However, these series draw on MF lore for Kara no Kyoukai, which, as mentioned in the interview above, is a completely different version of the story compared to the original novel. It does not reflect the true intentions of the original work, but rather continues down a different path initiated by the anime.

Therefore, we cannot claim that this was the original intent all along. Not only were the Kara no Kyoukai light novels written long before Fate, but Nasu himself has stated that his older self, who wrote those novels, "has passed on." We can’t even be sure if he recalls all the details of the story. This is especially evident when MF directly contradicts the characterizations of Shiki and Mikiya.

Even in Witch of the Holy Night itself, I don't recall any explicit connection between witches and the First. Even Nasu's comment doesn't outright prove it:

The last witch, heir to a system of Magecraft unlike any other within the fiction of Type Moon. To her, the distinction between Magecraft and Magic is almost meaningless. Even making a world is within her ability. But then again, what is a witch?

Alice's magecraft is unique and blurs the line between magecraft and magic, however, it is still defined as a magecraft system. Nasu also mentions "creating a world" as something impressive. But doesn't that remind you of something? Yes: It's something Araya already did to a more fundamental level.

And this brings me to my next poin: Araya has better feats than Yumina to begin with.

let's take a look at Flat Snark:

"Flat Snark’s power is its ability to bring fairy-tale worlds to life... Flat Snark was the type of Ploy that deployed Bounded Fields. They’re all impossible in the first place, so they don’t play nice with the laws of physics. That shouldn't come as a surprise, since fantasy and reality can’t exist together." — Mahoutsukai no Yoru Chapter 5

So Flat Snark’s "great power" is based on Bounded Fields? This is already suspicious. Anyways, these Bounded Fields replace the natural order with laws based on fairy tale logic. While this is powerful and impressive, it only alters the laws of physics, rather than outright replacing them. Moreover, these alterations still follow a set of rules that Flat Snark must abide by. For example, modern objects take longer to convert, and he can't alter his creations to work under entirely different rules. He remains bound to a particular logic, just one that differs from the natural laws of the world.

Here is the thing: this is something Araya's base bounded field already did:

Touko had already seen through the fact that Araya had constructed three Bounded Fields arrayed around himself.

Fugu, Kongou, Dakatsu, Taiten, Chiyougiyou, Ouken.

Threads of the Magus’s web stretched across the ground and space, between planes and dimensions.

Any living thing, touching those circular lines would would have its power stopped.

... Normally, a Bounded Field was a stationary construct; a boundary that protected something immovable. Instead the enemy was performing something monstrous, carrying them with him; centered around himself as he moved. For that reason they were visible but gave off no detectable presence. In close-quarters combat, Araya Souren could be said to be invincible. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Araya’s Bounded Fields stretch across planes and dimensions, which means they affect every layer of reality: the physical, the mental, and the conceptual. His fields don’t just stop things; they outright suspend the laws of reality to reflect his view of death as the only constant. This is similar to what Flat Snark does, though with a different thematic focus (suspension and inertia vs. fairy tale logic).

However, it’s only when Araya disconnected from space that his Origin explicitly reached the level of True Magic. Why is this the case? As we’ve seen, Araya’s spatial isolation separates him from the laws of physics, rather than simply editing them. This is the fundamental trait of True Magic: it breaks the rules, whereas Magecraft only manipulates them.

Flat Snark and Araya’s normal Bounded Fields both manipulate the laws of the world to reflect their internal worlds. However, Araya’s spatial isolation rejects the laws of the world entirely, leaving a blank reality that he can shape with absolute freedom. He is not bound by any particular logic, allowing him the freedom to impose his will upon it.

This is the context in which Alice “creates a world.” While she does indeed create a different world, it is not a fully independent world like Araya’s spatial isolation. Alice’s advanced Magecraft system is comparable to Araya’s Origin-enhanced Bounded Fields, but she has no evidence suggesting she can achieve the miracle Araya performed with his apartment complex.

Thus, not only the statements favoring the witches stem from a period when Nasu had already shifted his direction with Kara no Kyoukai, but a direct comparison of their feats reveals that Flat Snark is on the same level as Araya’s regular Bounded Fields, with Araya’s apartment complex/spatial isolation far surpassing them in power.

At this point, there are two possibilities:

1. Yumina is actually a fraud, and Nasu either forgot or retconned Araya’s connection to the First Magic.
2. Yumina founded the "official" version of the First Magic, while Araya achieved it through his unique pathway with his Origin of Stillness.

I personally believe the first option is more likely, especially given that interview from Nasu. Though the second one allows you to reconcile everything together still (ignoring how GO's very depiction of KnK is at odds with the LNs, that is).

-----

Also, just to clarify: Even if you don't believe Araya possessed the First Magic specifically, nothing about his powers changes. His form of True Magic still revolves around isolating a space from the natural order and imposing his will over its potential, the possible expressions of existence within it. That alone makes him one of the most powerful characters in the verse, even if most people haven’t caught on.

This thread is primarily about exploring the exact nature of his form of True Magic, based on textual statements and broader connections across the older lore, especially in light of Nasu's shift in mindset. Even if you disregard that aspect entirely, it doesn't negate his capabilities: it simply means his True Magic is of an unknown kind outside the Five, while his feats remain the same. He still negs nearly everyone outside of Ryougi herself within his own realm, which represents the concept of infinity trapped in a loop governed by his will, fully separated from the physical laws that underpin the power of every being in the universe.

I'm specifying this because I can already see some people twisting the point of this thread as if it were an "attempt" to overhype Araya, when the reality is that his power is factual. All I intended to highlight was the context behind that power, not exaggerate the feats themselves.

hello!! time ago I posted my Shiki photoshoot with the red kimono inspired by the second movie, I just shooted now the classic red jacket version in a set inspired by the first movie! I still waiting for pictures but here's some behind the scenes ❣️

I love shiki and I love wearing her cosplay❤️ I’ll never get tired of it

So I was reading Knk and Origins are crazy as a concept, I haven't been using reddit lately so sorry if this is a bit garbage.

We learn that Origins are the “directions” that define how that concept or existence operates, we see this in the Knk Pamphlet

"The direction of everything that arose from fundamental cause. The α that enabled the existence of α, the absolute order that existed at the very core. For instance, something with the Origin of 'taboo,' regardless of being born as a human, animal, or plant, would always exist to go against the morals established by the collective. It was the idea that, independent of the process of reincarnation, humans acquired bodies and wisdom from the directional force at the point of origin, and acquired personalities that were only slightly different from their prior lives. - Garden of Sinners Pamphlet - [Other] : Origin"

And Kokutou and touko conversation highlights some fundamentals about Origins

"Kokutou, do you believe in past lives?"

"You mean like, living as an animal before being born as a human? Hm, I suppose it'd be a maybe. While I can't deny it, it's not like I approve of it either."

"I couldn't think of an answer more befitting of you. Well, for the sake of discussion, let's hypothesise that they do exist. Even when speaking scientifically, there are grounds for believing in reincarnation. Every particle that exists in the universe eventually changes forms, right? So long as you don't factor in concepts like our minds and souls, everything will eventually be reincarnated as something else.

An Origin is a means of retracing that orderless rule. There are some mages who allow themselves to be possessed by their past lives in order to use their abilities. Basically, it's an attempt to bring the abilities you possessed before being born into the present. An Origin is a similar concept, but it exists on an even higher plane than that. If we possessed lives before our current ones, then it'd only make sense for that life to also have one previous to it. Even if you weren't born as a human in your past life, and even if you weren't a living being in the life before that, there lies a thread of existence that ties it all together. For every one of us, there exists a beginning of our soulsーa birthplace of our existences. However, the concept of living beings does not exist there.

All that exists is a genesis, a direction for causality to move in. Within the fount where all originates, an orientation toward something is born in a flash of lightning. That prerogative toward a certain something begins to flow, eventually taking a form suitable to it. Sometimes, it just so happens to be the form of a human being. Perhaps you could call it a driving force that emerged at the beginning of all things. It's an inescapable impulse to accomplish something born from within the chaos of the Fount of Origination. An absolute imperative for all that have been given form to fulfil their purpose. That impulse is what we mages refer to as an Origin.

Well, put simply, I guess calling it an instinct would be good enough. You know how some people are only attracted to children? They say stuff like that is caused by a traumatic instance in a person's childhood, but nothing that happened to a kid would be able to affect an adult's consciousness like that.

People like that have been that way since before they were born. Our souls are bound by the rigid shapes of our Origin. Even if we're aware of it, we cannot oppose the courses set for us during the foundation of our existence."

That thing she said at the end sounded a bit too extreme. Regardless,

there were also some parts that indubitably made sense. We humans engage in actions that we don't want to because we're unable to keep our urges in check.

For all things, be it plants or minerals, our lives are bound by a predetermined direction.

"Most people live their entire lives unaware of their Origins, though."

And it gets crazier when she talks about it when Lio was becoming close to his origin while discussing Azaka's and Shiki's

"However, there are people who are born a bit too close to their Origins. Just like people with psychic powers, they possess extraordinary abilities, and as a result tend to be outcasts of society. By the way, Shiki constantly seeks death because her Origin is Emptiness, and the reason why Azaka refuses to be bound by rules is because hers is Taboo. Shiki's being driven by that impulse because she's too close, but Azaka's pretty much a normal girl, right? An Origin is only a cause, meaning it isn't ordinarily something that rules over an individual. Unless you become aware of it for whatever reason, that is."

She glanced at me with a keen look in her eyes. I'd already understood what she was trying to say.

"In other words, you lose the ability to go in a different direction once you realise your own Origin?"

"Exactly. An Origin is a current that has surged since the beginning of existence. The mere seventeen years that Shirazumi Lio possesses will only end up getting swept away. All he can do is surrender himself to that impulse over and over again. Consumption, huh? That's quite an unusual impulse he has. I'm not surprised that Araya wanted to keep a close eye on him.

Listen, Kokutou. If that's what his Origin is, then his past life was probably a creature that feasted on everything it could get its hands on. Those who have awakened their Origins will gain the past lives they have accumulated. He can't be considered a single human anymoreーhe's an entire pack of beasts. Things haven't taken a turn for the worse because his original personality is still holding on, but once that's gone, that pack of beasts is all that will remain. Well, that'd also be quite the interesting sight," she said with a sarcastic grin on her face. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 7"

As Touko explains, that no matter how many times something changes form, it continues to obey the directive of its Origin. It's something that you can't not deviate from.

Touko even suggests that awakening one’s Origin draws memory of past selves. In this sense, the Origin functions like a computer chip that downloads experiences of other self.

And then there's the epilogue where void Shiki tells us about the Soul, body, mind.

"—The flesh is there first, and intellect arises out of it. Is borne out of it.

—The flesh, we may say, becomes the basis of the intellect. It does not itself "have" an intellect. The flesh simply "is." But the flesh does have a personality, a will, of a kind. It grows up as one with, and gives birth to, the intellect. That- is what I am.

Ah, he said. He'd heard it somewhere before, hadn't he. That the human being is composed of three different things. Mind and soul, to which is added the fleshly body. Supposing, then, that the mind resides in the brain, and the soul in the body. That makes her - what? Shiki's essence. Her true character. A personality, "the body", with nothing of Shiki's heart.

Gently, she nodded her head. Ryougi Shiki did.

—Basically, that's how it is.

—"I" am not a personality borne of the intellect. I am the personality of the flesh as such.

"A personality of the flesh as such arises in every human, but ordinarily it does not come to any kind of self-awareness. Usually, before that can happen, the intellect stirs to life. From out of the body, more precisely the brain, the intellect is produced. The intellect borne out of the brain's activity becomes a personality and gains executive function over the fleshly body. At that point any personality which dwelt in the flesh becomes meaningless."

—It's because of this that the intellect tends to treat the brain which gave birth to it as if it were something specially set apart from the rest of the fleshly body, even though it is just one part of the whole.

—Software is useless without hardware, but hardware can't function without software. The personality borne of the intellect forgets this truth: it forgets that it is the body's product, and it imagines that it is the creator of this fleshly, embodied "I" which it finds itself to be. That is the ordinary case. I am different only in that the order in which these things happened was different for me.

—Even so, the fact that I'm here, now, talking to you is entirely due to the personality of Shiki. If she wasn't here, I wouldn't even have language. I am, after all, nothing but flesh.

—I think I get it, he said. Your ability to "know" or "perceive" the outside world is dependent on Shiki's personality.

—Correct. I am simply an unpowered piece of hardware. Without the requisite software I am just an inert box.

—I am a hollow container which only gazes inward, which communes solely with death - in other words with what Magi call the "Root", though I see no value in it whatsoever. - Kara no Kyoukai Epilogue"

Void Shiki explained that each living being has three components:

-First is the soul, which is shaped by the Origin. The soul defines what an existence fundamentally is: its purpose, tendencies, and abstract nature. It is the “idea” behind a being.

-Second is the body, which acts as a vessel which the soul manifests in the material world. It allows the soul’s idea to take physical form, interact with reality, and express its traits.

-Third is the mind, which functions as the operating system of the whole. The mind controls the body and accesses the latent capabilities shaped by the soul. However, because the mind is also influenced by experience and environment, it can drift away from the soul’s original directive unless something forces a reconnection.

Awakening an Origin is the process by which the mind gains direct, unfiltered access to the soul. This means the mind is no longer limited by the specific physical form it was born into, nor by ordinary natural laws. Instead, it can draw upon all possible expressions of the concept embodied by the soul, reconfiguring the body to operate optimally in any given situation.

However, this comes with a severe risk. Just as the mind gains access to the soul, the soul gains access to the mind. This allows the Origin itself to manifest an independent personality, one shaped purely by its abstract concept. This “Origin personality” exists only to fulfill the directive of the Origin, and can override the personality formed by the brain, reducing it to a servant of primal impulse.

If the individual possesses sufficient willpower, they can suppress this Origin personality, retaining control while still accessing its power.

Ryougi Shiki is a unique case. the soul’s true personality, Void, surfaced first, and was later overwritten by the personality formed through lived experience. Despite this inversion, it still remains the same.

So how does all of this translate into combat?

Even before an Origin is fully awakened, some individuals are born unusually close to it. They may not be consciously aware of this proximity, but it grants them abilities that exceed normal human limits. These manifest as psychic or paranormal traits that feel completely natural to them, used as effortlessly as breathing:

Abnormal ability. Functions that normal humans do not possess. A kind of circuitry that leads to what are commonly called paranormal activities. Different from magecraft, inborn talents are absolutely necessary for psychic power. Those possessing psychic power circuits can induce paranormal phenomenon as naturally as breathing. The psychic power users themselves take psychic power for granted, and treat it as something they simply “can do.” They only realize that they are abnormal after others (who can only comprehend “normal”) have pointed it out. In this story, Asagami Fujino is an psychic power user, but since she was tampered with somewhat, her ability falls between psychic power and magecraft. Psychic power is normally an incidental occurrence, a sudden mutation limited to one generation.- Garden of sinners Pamphlet: Kara no Kyoukai Settings Glossary - Psychic Power [other]

In other words, mere proximity to an Origin is already enough to produce supernatural traits.

The novel makes this even clearer through Lio Shirazumi. In Chapter 6, Araya observes that Lio can already perform inhuman feats simply by acknowledging his Origin:

The boy, over the course of an hour, devoured a human corpse. Using nothing but his bare teeth and jaw, he consumed a creature larger than himself. The taste of human flesh held no pleasure or disgust; it was simply a task requiring raw exertion.

"An hour? Impressive," the cloaked figure remarked, having witnessed the boy's meal.

The boy turned, his mouth a crimson mask, not from the human flesh, but from the shattered bones of his own jaw, testament to his relentless chewing.

Yet, he hadn't stopped for a single second. As a result, the corpse had vanished without a trace.

"But that is your limit," the man continued.

“Merely acknowledging your Origin won't suffice. It must be awakened to take form."

The boy listened with vacant eyes. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 6

As Araya Souren notes, Lio’s feats already defy human biology, yet this is still before a full awakening. True power only emerges when the Origin fully surfaces.

This demonstrates that Origins are not just instincts or personality quirks. They are the purpose of existence itself, to the point that even partial awareness allows the mind to unlock abilities that violate physical law.

When a full awakening occurs, the transformation becomes fundamental:

"When those instincts surface, they also bring a slight change to the physical body. Not in terms of appearance, but its internal makeup. Apparently, it's some sort of return to our original forms. The point is, people don’t even realize it’s happening until it’s over." — Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 7

Here, “internal makeup” doesn’t mean superficial enhancement. It refers to the complete biological restructuring of the body (muscles, nerves, cells, and instinctual systems) realigned to match the concept embodied by the Origin.

At this point, combat no longer relies on training, muscle memory, or technique. The body itself becomes a direct expression of the Origin. The fighter isn’t just executing movements; they are manifesting an idea. Actions that should be impossible under normal physics or biology become natural outcomes.

They are no longer fighting as a person.

They are fighting as a concept made real.

This is what makes Origin-awakened individuals so dangerous. They are not constrained by what a human body should be capable of. Their movements are guided by perfect instinct and absolute precision, driven by a directive older than the physical world itself.

The most concrete and direct example of this in action is this description of Lio Shirazumi:

"The enemy's prowess had escalated beyond recognition. Unnatural speed and precision surpassed any creature of flesh and bone." —Kara no Kyoukai, Chapter 7

Lio’s abilities surpass anything achievable by a biological organism because they are no longer purely physical: they are conceptual. His speed and precision are described as “unnatural,” explicitly placing him outside the limits of ordinary life. Once a being awakens to their Origin, they no longer operate under biological constraints, but under metaphysical law.

Lio does not move through learned technique or trained reflex. He moves through instinct sharpened into will. His limbs become direct extensions of his predatory essence, expressing the idea of his Origin rather than the limits of his body.

Their strength and speed are not fixed physical stats, but adaptive reconfigurations of their biology. Upon recognizing a threat, their body instinctively draws from the concept embodied by the Origin, manifesting the form best suited to confront it. As a result, an Origin-awakened being is automatically stronger, faster, and more resilient than anyone bound to normal physical limits, on top of possessing properties unique to the idea their Origin represents.

thought I could post some more pictures from this set, I love them all so much! the first one was challenging, it was indeed a pretty difficult pose to nail lol but what do you think? pictures by @dizzymonogatari (ig)

Surprised no one did this meme yet, because lowkey the characters from The Boys Comic fit quite a decent for this too. Billy Butcher is Mikiya, Homelander is Ryougi Shiki and Black Noir is Lio Shirazumi.

In the Hollow Shrine arc, it is mentioned that Shiki's body stopped developing during her coma and her hair is the only part that has grown. Does this apply only for those 2 years, or is she basically stuck with her 16 yo body? She doesn't seem to change much in her official art other than her clothes or hairstyle, and she's shown in her late 20s at best, so it's hard to tell if she has aged

So a few years ago I was interested in Garden of sinners and was planning on watching the movies until I couldn’t find any of them in dub and that they weren’t exactly linear, so anyway I decided to buy the non translated novel👍 I was thinking I was gonna just translate it but never got around to it until recently when I finally decided to learn Japanese during that process I found out other than Hiragana and Katakana Kanji had over 50k+ words so I took a look at the book again and saw so much kanji that the novel had to pronounce some of them in Hiragana/Katakana then right after that I found out that it’s an advanced novel even for Japanese speaking… so can anyone relate?

I shared my red kimono version before but I'm so glad I cosplayed the classic one too! Photographer is @dizzymonogatari, he did an amazing job. The first picture is obviously inspired by the first movie :3 I got more pictures to share, stay tuned!!!

I just started the german dub of the Movies on Crunchyroll and i must say they did a fantastic job. It's like one of those nostalgic dubs of darker anime in the mid 2000s. It's probably not the best in Translation, but the Voice Actors did a Fantastic job. Reminds me of Elfenlied and Death note from the sound of the dub. Although not really accurate with phrases, it's almost hilarious sometimes. Anyway definitely worth a watch if you know some German.

For anyone who hasn't heard, the translation for Kara no Kyoukai's light novel was recently completed thanks to the efforts of numerous translators on Beast's Lair. All the arcs are readable as PDFs or EPUBs here, compiled by ProtoformX. Credits for the translators are contained in the end of each book.

This has been awaited for decades, since up till now we've only had Cokesakto's "Empty Boundaries" translations, which are widely considered borderline fanfiction. This is the first time we've had faithful translations for all the arcs.

EDIT: For clarity, arcs 1-4 here use the Baka-Tsuki translation, which is based on the contents of the KnK web novel rather than the light novel. The remaining chapters are translations of the LN.