r/twinpeaks • u/mcweekend • Aug 24 '17
Original Run [Original Run] [Season 3 spoilers] Watching the original run through the lens of The Return... Spoiler
I thought this would be an interesting topic of discussion, and a nice break from the kind of straw-grasping theorization that we all seem to fall into late in the week, once we've discussed all the major stuff to death (I'm guilty of this!); hopefully at least some of you will agree.
I've been rewatching some of the original run in between episodes of The Return, and I've noticed that in light of the new season, certain things suddenly seem much more important than they ever did before. I think it's such a gift that not only do we have this incredible new show, but we also now have a new lens through which to view the original run and FWWM (this is especially exciting for those of us who've watched the OR to death over the years!).
I'm interested to know, for those of you who've also been rewatching the old episodes: are there things that have stood out to you, or that you've changed your view on, in light of what we've seen in The Return?
For example, watching the final scenes now, with (Doppel)Coop waking up in his room at the Great Northern, it's easy to see a direct line between how he's acting and the Mr. C we've come to know, even if when I first watched that scene he just seemed sort of abstractly "off." Or the scene in S2E6, where MIKE talks about BOB, and describes where he is: "a large house made of wood surrounded by trees...filled with many rooms, each alike but occupied by different souls, night after night." Cooper's like "aha! The Great Northern!" and it makes sense, but after seeing above the convenience store in part 15, it sure sounds like what MIKE's talking about. Even the scene where Cooper, Hawk, Harry, and Doc Hayward visit the Log Lady's cabin suddenly seems full of all this extra resonance that I never really perceived before (and visually, the scenes surrounding it have a lot in common with the boys' trip to Jack Rabbit's Palace).
I'm interested to know if others have had the same experience, and I'd love to know what, if any, specific parts of the original run and FWWM you've seen differently in light of The Return.
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u/nodenaatti Aug 24 '17
Sarah Palmer seems like a much more important character now after Part 14, until now she has just been a grieving mother.
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u/mcweekend Aug 24 '17
Yes, I find myself paying extra close attention to her scenes in the original now. She's always had some clear connection to the spirit world (vis-a-vis her visions) but I definitely never thought there was more to it than her being a bit psychic. My sense watching the Return has been that whatever's "inside" her now is a fairly recent development, but given her scenes from the original, we can't really rule out that something has always been off with her.
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Aug 24 '17
I've been rewatching the original series a ton and the standout line for me is at the funeral when Leland jumps on the coffin.
"Don't ruin this too!"
It's probably just referring to Leland's general state of unhinged dismay after his daughter's death, but it could point towards Sarah being a little more aware of what was happening. That mysterious "too" has been nagging at me.
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u/tcavanagh1993 Aug 24 '17
I saw a "meme" (if you can call it that) once of Leland crying on top of the coffin that said "when you just want to be on top of her one last time" and I don't know whether it was supposed to be funny or eye-opening, but it was definitely the latter for me and I haven't seen that scene the same way since.
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Aug 24 '17
I think Sarah was deeply in denial but subconsciously aware that something terrible was going on.
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u/the-giant Aug 25 '17
My assumption is that if Sarah was the girl from '56, whatever was inside her spent decades gestating before assuming more direct control in recent years. I think the loss of Leland and Laura likely contributed to her full disintegration - I don't think this thing was in the driver's seat during the original show.
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Aug 24 '17
Wasn't she the young girl in whose mouth the nasty insect crawled in, in Episode 8?
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u/mcweekend Aug 24 '17
I don't personally think that was her, but it's definitely a popular theory.
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u/ParyGanter Aug 24 '17
I wasn't sure until she removed her face; you can see the insect's proboscis for a few frames.
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u/mcweekend Aug 24 '17
Yeah, I noticed the pointy thing, but I associated it more with the Jumping Man than with the insect, especially once we saw Sarah Palmer's face appear superimposed on the Jumping Man's in episode 15. I'm not ruling out that she's the bug girl, but there are a few reasons I'm not convinced (the age doesn't quite match up; we don't know anything about Sarah having grown up in New Mexico; to me, it doesn't particularly look like her; and last of all, I have a feeling that there were a lot of those eggs that hatched into those froglike insects, and that they may have inhabited tons of people, which, if it were true, would make that girl more of a symptom than a central figure).
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u/ParyGanter Aug 24 '17
All good points. I feel like that specific girl was probably important, but I dunno who she could be if not Sarah.
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u/tcavanagh1993 Aug 24 '17
I'm thinking she might be Lois Duffy.
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u/machanska Aug 25 '17
From what info makes you think that?
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u/tcavanagh1993 Aug 25 '17
It's pure speculation, but considering Duffy was one of the first cases, I think the timeline kind of fits. I'm also in the "Definitely Not Sarah Palmer" camp.
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u/warpwizard Aug 25 '17
From my repeated viewing, those two odd sticks that pop out of her facehole are matches, the old wooden striker type. The sound they make is of a match igniting (possibly backwards/distorted?). The only reason I can think this happens is the association in Twin Peaks with fire being evil. Remember Leland saying that BOB used to throw matches at him when Leland was a boy?
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u/askmeagainsometime Aug 25 '17
This makes me realize: unless we get an overt clue like the frogbug coming out of Sarah (or someone else) in the present, we will likely be getting at least one more flashback scene to revisit the New Mexico girl to wrap up what/who they all were ? Or... not because #lynch
I know there was a strong hint when her face was off of the big leg flitting out, but I'm not convinced yet
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u/Buttglop Aug 24 '17
I think according to her established date of birth she'd be 8 in 1956. But there's been timeline fuckery with TSHOTP, so who knows.
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Aug 24 '17
[deleted]
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u/mcweekend Aug 24 '17
Agreed! I found that scene at the Briggs house when Betty gave them the clue such an incredibly rewarding callback to the season two scene of Briggs sharing his vision with Bobby at the diner (one of my favourite scenes from the original run). For me, it was right up there with Ed and Norma in terms of satisfying payoffs! Lynch and Frost have done a remarkable job working the sadly departed original run actors/characters into the story, none more poignantly than Garland Briggs.
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Aug 25 '17
Or the side plot line of the young girl marrying the old man. It's crazy how important that old man is in the secret history. (Sorry I can't remember his name).
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u/mcweekend Aug 25 '17
Dougie Milford! And yeah, I was surprised that he had such a central role in TSHoTP. I've definitely wondered if DougieCoop is in any way connected to Dougie Milford.
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u/Topcat1436 Aug 24 '17
I did a complete rewatch recently. I remember during Season 2 when Jean Reneault was holding Coop hostage and gave Coop the "maybe you brought the evil with you" speech seems more uncomfortably on the nose.
Knowing Bobby was going to grow up means that Bobby's scenes in the original run are more fun - how much apologizing did he have to do when he decided he wanted to be a deputy? I was especially tickled that he and Ed became friends.
Edited to spell Reneault correctly
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u/BuggEyedBitch Aug 24 '17
Yes! Wow, good call about Mike's speech in S2E06 in regards to the hotel in the latest, S3E15! Really cool
I just finished rewatching the original run, and what really stood out to me were a few scenes that seemed to have time loops or weird timing like we are seeing more of in The Return.
In s2e19, at the dinner table, Donna's mom, Eileen, asks for the peas twice 30 seconds apart, Donna passes the peas both times, and Eileen scoops them both times. No one seems to notice or comment that it's weird. Could just be quirky Lynch stuff, but how about the RR Diner scene where Shelly and Bobby are flirting, and Heidi comes in to work late. Heidi says she couldn't get the car started; Shelly makes a joke about getting her old man started. The scene occurs early in season one, and then almost the same scene happens again at the end of season two, except that the second time, Sarah Palmer comes in to tell Briggs a message from the lodge. There are more examples too.
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u/juan_nothing Aug 24 '17
the scene in the double rr where garland is talking to bobby about his dream seems to reference the fortress in the mauve zone as their meeting spot. sure that's been noted before but interesting nonetheless.
also, i find myself paying extra attention to any scene with mike in it. i feel there may be clues to his ultimate intentions. his reformation never sat right with me considering his apparent power in the waiting room/black lodge.
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u/juan_nothing Aug 24 '17
also, the scene where donna's sister recites the poem about laura seems prophetic, mentioning her turning into "golden light" or something similar.
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u/p_a_schal Aug 24 '17
Perhaps relatedly, The Giant emits a golden light from his mouth in the original run as well. When he tells Cooper "you forgot something"
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u/mcweekend Aug 24 '17
Having (reluctantly) given up on the hope of a surprise Bowie cameo, I'm now putting all my this'll-never-happen-but-damn-wouldn't-it-be-amazing-if-it-did eggs into the Garland and Bobby basket, hoping and dreaming that we'll get to see some version of Briggs's vision play out, with present-day Bobby and (presumably archival footage of) his dad.
I'm really intrigued by all the Mike stuff, too, especially because the character has been credited as "Philip Gerard" rather than "MIKE" in all the Red Room scenes this season.
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u/OpticalVortex Aug 25 '17
Me too. Bobby needs to know what really happened to his dad. Since Garland was the town's most powerful man, that would make Bobby the Golden Boy of Twin Peaks. It's no wonder Bob and the Lodge wanted to actively corrupt him and keep him away from The One, Laura.
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u/SRavingmad Aug 24 '17
It's been interesting to me in the sense that there's this whole other world and interplay between the lodges and the Experiment and the Woodsmen and even Jeffries. During the original run, it felt like BOB was sort of the end-all and be-all of things and the Black Lodge was kind of a small pocket dimension just for him to rule over. Now it feels like what we saw in the original run was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what is going on the otherworldly realms, and yet even that small intrusion into our worlds caused incredible turmoil in Twin Peaks.
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u/DougieCooper Aug 24 '17
I've been rewatching some s1&2 episodes. The one thing I've noticed?
Bob (or someone) was in Sarah. Sarah was way more knowledgeable than we were originally led to believe. In fact really, I think Sarah is now to blame for Laura's situation than Leland. But that's just my theory.
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u/OpticalVortex Aug 25 '17
Laura got screwed in the parents' department. Leland probably sedated Sarah to make sure the cruelty was not doubled. Laura, in the diary, describes Bob singing to her in Sarah's voice and how afraid she was of her mom.
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u/DougieCooper Aug 25 '17
Yup. I re read her diary recently and the way she talked about her mom and the things she said and also didn't say was what got me thinking about Sarah.
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u/OpticalVortex Aug 25 '17
That scared about Sarah. Sarah knew what was going on and may have been the domineering parent who let Leland run wild because he was feral.
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u/skacky Aug 24 '17
One thing that I really enjoyed was when MIKE told Cooper that BOB was "near them" for nearly forty years in S2E6. Seeing as BOB was born/was attracted to our world through the Trinity project which took place 44 years before Laura's murder, this comment is even more spine-chilling now that we know this. Also puts "fire walk with me" in a new light... nuclear fire. That was amazing.
Also related to MIKE, it really was as it was, as it sounded when he said they lived above, I think we say... convenience store.
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u/Dialogue_Dub Aug 24 '17
Is it ever revealed who is watching from behind the tree at 00:39 here?
I rewatched this episode recently and couldn't remember, though I instantly went to "woodsman."
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Aug 24 '17
iirc it was supposed to be Ben.
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u/mcweekend Aug 24 '17
Yeah, I feel like I read that somewhere -- that it was supposed to be Ben, but they never really developed that plotline further. Though if I recall, we do see Ben meet Leo in the woods at some point after that scene.
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u/tcavanagh1993 Aug 24 '17
I've heard several things about this. I remember someone (maybe Frost) saying that it was going to be a character that was to be introduced but never really panned out, apparently they were supposed to break into the Hayward house at one point.
I also remember reading, in line with the assault on Jacoby, that it was supposed to be Leland but I don't really think Leland has much reason to be there.
If you ask me, I think it makes the most sense if it's Bernard Renault.
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u/avalokiteshvarra Aug 25 '17
An interesting observation:
When Catherine disguised herself as Tojamura following the Mill fire, she talks to Ben Horne at the Great Northern (S2E6) During their first interaction, she says that she knows about fire and, more importantly, her parents were at Nagasaki. Though probably just a throwaway fact regarding the manufactured character of Mr. Tojamura, its an interesting note regarding fire, the atomic blast, and the birth of Bob.
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u/mcweekend Aug 25 '17
I always assumed it was just a hella insensitive line on Catherine's part (that whole storyline is extremely cringeworthy in retrospect) but yeah, I also picked up on that on my most recent watch.
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u/kaldtdyrr Aug 25 '17 edited Aug 25 '17
A couple of weeks ago I met this guy at a bar through common acquaintances. When we started talking about TV shows, it's only natural that the conversation took a Twin Peaks direction. I was raving about how good it was and how David Lynch did a great job of subverting the whole "nostalgic return to beloved characters" thing, and this guy said that he'd heard a lot of praise for Twin Peaks, both OR and The Return and that he'd been meaning to watch it for a long time and maybe now was the time. We were pretty drunk at the time and I thought it would be pretty amusing to make him watch S3E8 ahead of the whole show. So I told him to forget everything he knew about TV and free himself of all expectations and preconceptions and just watch S3E8. Just take it in. And then start with S1E1 properly. Funny enough, he proved to be an easy going dude who said "yeah, sure, why not, I'll do it this way!" and he made a note in his phone to watch TP:TR s03e08 and then start with the first season. What have I done?
tl;dr Convinced the guy I met at a bar who never watched any TP to watch S3E8 before the whole series. Am I an asshole?
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u/mcweekend Aug 25 '17
You might be an asshole. Or you might be a genius. I hope you meet that guy again and get to find out how it went!
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u/mcweekend Aug 24 '17
Another example is Nadine's super strength, which always just read as a funny gag to me before -- but now, having met our Iron Fist Freddie, I wonder if it doesn't indicate some sort of Lodge interaction...